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Another r1150 not starting


dan cata

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Hi all,

 

I know it's been a while since I posted around, I have been busy with other job related stuff.

 

So here's the issue I am encountering. A friend calls me saying that he washed his r1150gs 2000, so the bike has a single spark/cyl head. Right after, he took off and in 100 meters the bike died. My first guess was the HES plate, so he got the bike trailed to my garage.

 

Without checking the plate first, I connected the GS911 diagnose unit and it only displayed the HES as an issue(this fault is present if you do not crank the engine a couple of times before reading the fault codes, so I cranked it and the error was still there).

 

So the first thing I did was to replace the HES unit to another one that I had in the garage and knew it was ok. Still no starting. Checked for spark and there was none. So I tried another HES plate, that I have tested and still no spark. And there is no fuel squirt at the injectors neither.

 

I have build myself a LED test plate that I use on all HES plates I repair to check my work. I have used it while the plate was installed on the bike and it appears to be working just fine, the LED's light alternately as the engine cranks (by the starter engine). So still no spark and no fuel squirt. I have also connected my DVM to the injector connectors and there is no activity while cranking, the injectors get no power. The fuel pump is ok as I can hear it when switching the ignition on.

 

So, to summarize, the HES plate is working fine but I get no spark and no fuel squirt. I have measured the ignition coil and it reads 7 ohms on the primary winding and 19kohms on the secondary winding, measured with the spark plug wires installed. My assumption is that the coil itself is fine and so are the coil wires. Also, I can measure some variable voltage across the coil primary winding connector as I crank the bike, so it gets signal, just that it does not output anything. I know it's not a proper coil test, nut it was all I could do so far.

 

What I am wondering is why there is no fuel squirt if the HES unit is fine. Has anyone encountered this?

 

All suggestions are welcome. Also, if you took the time to read this and are still not bored, I can provide more info if necessary. All that I can think of now is that the cable that connects from the HES unit to the motronic is at fault(forgot to mention that I do get 12V to the HES plate from the bike, I have measured that also.)

 

Thanks,

Dan

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Afternoon Dan

 

Did you check for 12vpower at the coil's 12v power terminal?

Did you check for 12vpower at the fuel injector power side pin?

 

The HES might be OK & the Motronic might be OK but without power to the coil or injectors then no spark & no fuel injection.

 

If power to the coil & injectors then possibly water in the Motronic.

 

 

Added: if no power to coil or injectors possibly a bad side stand switch but you would think with a bad side stand S/W no fuel pump either.

Edited by dirtrider
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Hi DR,

 

I do have 12V at the coil plug, it's alternating while cranking, I guess that would be normal since spark comes in pulses.

 

I do not have any voltage at the injectors connector, while cranking.

 

Dan.

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Morning Dan

 

The power to the coil & fuel injectors is 12volt DC continuous. NOT alternating. The other side of the primary at the coil (the trigger wire) will pulse as the Motronic grounds then un-grounds that side.

 

Same with the fuel injectors, the power IN is 12 volts DC (not pulsed) but the trigger side is grounded & un-grounded by the Motronic so that side will pulse.

 

On the coil & fuel injectors-- if the power supply side is pulsing (more than just slightly) then you have issues with the power supply, or low system voltage.

 

Now, you will measure a "slight" power oscillation on both the coil & fuel injector power feed side due to the load placed on the injector or coil as the Motroninc grounds & un grounds the coils in those devices but it should not be a drop of very much. As the starter turns against engine compression that can also cause a slight power oscillation in system voltage as the starter cranking load changes (not very much though).

 

That NO VOLTAGE at the fuel injectors is not right those need 12 volts to them to operate. You need to find out why (side stand switch, broken wire, etc)

 

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DR, if it were for a faulty side stand switch, the engine would not crank, right? And also, I would not hear the fuel pump priming when switching the ignition on. But on this bike, the pump is ok and the engine spins.

 

When measuring the voltage at the coil feed (primary winding connector) I get about 8 9 V, alternating. I guess this is because of using a DVM and not an analogue one.

 

Also, I have no voltage at the injectors, and no fuel squirt.

 

What you say seems plausible, a low voltage in all the bike's circuits. I will measure by how much does the voltage drop while cranking.

 

Dan.

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----Also, I have no voltage at the injectors, and no fuel squirt.

 

 

 

Dan

 

You might have to check for power to the injectors while the fuel pump is running (or during engine cranking). If I remember correctly on that 1150GS the injectors are POWERED from the fuel pump relay so the injectors are only powered when the fuel pump relay is closed. I don't have a wire diagram where I'm at right now so this is from memory only (keep that in mind)

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Sorry to jump in, but where are the main grounding points for the Motronic unit? I see an earch wire on the Left Hand TB only, but not on the Right.

 

Earths i have tested over the frame and sometimes dont get continuity on some parts of it - un painted surfaces, just thought that an intermittant connection might be the reason for my misfiring issue?

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Morning Caerleon

 

You really need to start your own thread on YOUR grounding problem as this is different & separated from Dan's problem. This thread will turn into a electrical mess if we start addressing 2 separate & different electrical issues in the same thread

 

Start a new thread & I will answer you grounding query.

 

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Problem fixed.

 

Actually, the whole problem was the HES plate, to start with. Like I said, the first thing I did was to perform the HES test via the GS911. This is what the test sounds like:

 

In the subsequent test, the motorcycle is forced into a state where the engine cannot be started. Correct termination of this test subsequently cancels this state. Remember to cycle the ignition after the test..

Slowly crank (by hand) the engine in the normal direction of rotation (at least 720deg of crankshaft rotation). Note how the colours of the fields in the display change (blue=signal)

 

I think that I did not end the test completely, so the motronic remained in the same state where it would not power anything I guess, hence, no spark and no fuel squirt at the injectors.

 

Today, I have performed this test once again, completed it this time and the bike started right away

 

Thanks all for taking the time to read. I think this might be helpful for others in the future. Bottom line is RTFM

 

Dan

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  • 3 years later...
DougInAmbler

I had exactly the same problem.

For clarification, here is my description and fix:

 

Engine won't start after GS-911 HES test on R1150RT

 

After running the HES test on a bad HES, the engine still wouldn't start after I installed a good HES. This set me back a day or two.

The instructions warn about this, but the warning is unclear and terse.

 

Here is the GS-911 warning (v. 1503.2):

 

"In the subsequent test, the motorcycle is forced into a state where the engine cannot be started. Correct termination of this test subsequently cancels this state. Remember to cycle the ignition after the test."

 

Here is my suggested clarification:

"In this test the GS-911 puts the Motronic into a state where spark and injection are disabled so that the engine will not start. This state will persist until EITHER the test is successful, OR the Motronic ECU is re-initialized by pulling Fuse F5 for at least 5 minutes."

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  • 10 months later...

Thank you for very usefull information in this thread. I am working on a BMW that sometimes is hard to start, and when I got the "fault" on I checked the Hall sensors by turning the engine listening for the fuel pump bleeding. Sensors worked fine during this test, but the bike still won´t start. It has no spark, I have not checked if the injectors squirt.

 

My question is, is it possible that a bad signal from HES could put Motronic in the same contition as a uncomplete test with GS-911? That would be a reason why the engine does not spark with a correct HES-signal

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Thank you for very usefull information in this thread. I am working on a BMW that sometimes is hard to start, and when I got the "fault" on I checked the Hall sensors by turning the engine listening for the fuel pump bleeding. Sensors worked fine during this test, but the bike still won´t start. It has no spark, I have not checked if the injectors squirt.

 

My question is, is it possible that a bad signal from HES could put Motronic in the same contition as a uncomplete test with GS-911? That would be a reason why the engine does not spark with a correct HES-signal

 

 

Afternoon Storm

 

You really should start your own thread on YOUR problem as you are hijacking a very old thread here.

 

I will answer you one question here as it sort of fits in with the last HES test answer.

 

Ordinarily a bad HES won't put the Motronic into a lock mode but when it comes to cross talk on the Motronic inputs I suppose about anything is possible.

 

If you suspect the Motronic is locked out then just remove the #5 fuse for a few minutes, then reinstall the fuse & try starting it.

 

The thing is you can't be sure that the Motronic is getting the correct HES signals. It might be getting enough signal to trigger the fuel pump at a slow crankshaft turn but fail to give a solid signal during engine cranking for a spark trigger.

 

 

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  • 4 years later...

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