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Chevy VOLT, soliciting info- is it a GO or a dud?


SuperG

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A possible car purchase for the wife, considering the Volt but I know little about it.

 

I am hoping to hear an unbiased review from moshe_levy.

 

what I know : they cost around $39K and up.

right now the dealer said they offer $2000 cash back and $7500 green tax credit form the US gov.

zero down zero interest for 72 mo. basically free money. <--I am a bit curious why? usually it for cars that don't sell.

 

no special lease programs> was hoping for a 300-400 lease special but sales person said $570/month for 36mo. No thanks.

 

What I like to know. How will it behave on hilly terrain in Texas during mid summer ( around 100 degrees every day) with A/C. Will I get 30 miles on battery alone before the IC motor kicks in?

Will the car move along with A/C on, battery depleted, running on gas engine? Will you really save with the plug in feature paying for extra electricity?

Battery life?

I am trying to think positive on this one with an open mind.

 

But I am maybe pulling toward a TDI VW passat.

She loved her TDI jetta and anything less gutsy just won't do it for her. civics and prius is a no go for her.

We got bummed out with a civic hybrid. At first it was OK but degraded quickly, (battery that is.

 

VOLT. does it worth it?

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I love the Volt. If I could afford one I would have one.

 

Battery life is looking good from what I have seen and they have some kind of warranty.

 

The IC engine powers them great, I hear anyway.

 

I would put my daughter in one but budget is probably putting her in a new Sonic Hatchback.

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Passat all the way. Just be sure to check extended warranty: my brother was about to pull the plug on the new Golf but stepped back when he learned (from an official VW dealer) extended warranty adds just one year and 20000km to the standard one. Things may be different your side of the Pond but such a measly extended warranty is surely off-putting.

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Isn't that funny... My '03 civic hybrid with 170k on it just keeps ticking. 40 mpg all day long, although the IMA engine light is now on....

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Mine is an opinion that is uninformed by ownership, but based on reading a fair number of tests and opinions (including some here). From my perspective, the Volt makes the most sense of any of the current crop of electric vehicles, primarily because of its on-board generating capability.

 

But, having said that, I'd opt for the TDI Passat, which, while a state of the art diesel, basically relies on proven technology that has been demonstrated to be reliable over the long term. The Volt is impressive, but it's soooooo complex that even I--and I do lean toward cars with a healthy dose of technology--get a little nervous when I start thinking about how many things could go wrong. I'm also not confident that the electric vehicle market has evolved to the point where we really know what the dominant technology will be in even four or five years. The Volt might end up being the eight track player of cars.

 

Apart from that, I happen to think that the Passat is a heck of a nice car, and I have known a fair number of people who have had overwhelmingly positive experiences with their TDI-powered Volkswagens.

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Joe Frickin' Friday
The Volt is impressive, but it's soooooo complex that even I--and I do lean toward cars with a healthy dose of technology--get a little nervous when I start thinking about how many things could go wrong.

 

I don't have firsthand knowledge of the volt, but knowing the fundamentals of a hybrid-electric drivetrain, I don't think it would necessarily be any more complex than the Toyota Prius, which has held up well over the years.

 

I'm also not confident that the electric vehicle market has evolved to the point where we really know what the dominant technology will be in even four or five years. The Volt might end up being the eight track player of cars.

 

That analogy holds up only if gasoline becomes scarce, since that's the only accessory (analogous to 8-track cassettes) needed for the Volt to remain useful for its owner. I don't think that's likely to happen within the typical period of ownership of a Volt (5-15 years?).

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A possible car purchase for the wife, considering the Volt but I know little about it.

 

I am hoping to hear an unbiased review from moshe_levy.

 

what I know : they cost around $39K and up.

right now the dealer said they offer $2000 cash back and $7500 green tax credit form the US gov.

zero down zero interest for 72 mo. basically free money. <--I am a bit curious why? usually it for cars that don't sell.

 

no special lease programs> was hoping for a 300-400 lease special but sales person said $570/month for 36mo. No thanks.

 

What I like to know. How will it behave on hilly terrain in Texas during mid summer ( around 100 degrees every day) with A/C. Will I get 30 miles on battery alone before the IC motor kicks in?

Will the car move along with A/C on, battery depleted, running on gas engine? Will you really save with the plug in feature paying for extra electricity?

Battery life?

I am trying to think positive on this one with an open mind.

 

But I am maybe pulling toward a TDI VW passat.

She loved her TDI jetta and anything less gutsy just won't do it for her. civics and prius is a no go for her.

We got bummed out with a civic hybrid. At first it was OK but degraded quickly, (battery that is.

 

VOLT. does it worth it?

 

Hello-

 

I have been documenting my Volt experiences here http://www.mklsportster.com/volt/voltchronicles.htm and you can see my monthly screen shots here http://www.mklsportster.com/volt/voltscreenshots.htm which chronicles my month-to-month averages.

 

Let me comment on a few of your questions:

 

1) The lease rate you were quoted is absurd. Last summer, when I got mine and 2 coworkers followed suit, there was a special on the 2012s that was well under $300.00 per month. Both my coworkers actually wound up less than $275.00 - and that's no money down, and COMLETELY loaded (MSRP over $46,000 - every option included except extra-cost paint). So, if you had a gas bill of more than $300 a month, you were talking basically free transportation. Right now, the 2013s are hovering around $400.00 loaded, which is still quite good. Contact me offlist and I can send you some good info on where to shop.

 

2) Cost of electricity. At prevailing rates (keep in mind I don't pay for electricity as I have solar at home and work) you're talking roughly 10.5 cents a KW/hr. Meaning a full charge is roughly $1.50. That $1.50 will take you anywhere from 50 miles (I've gone longer) to (my personal worst) of 25 miles. The heat is not an issue. The cold is. The range drops in the cold significantly, ESPECIALLY if you power up the heater.Below +25F, the ICE will kick on automatically for a set period when the car first starts, reducing economy further. Anyway, you do the math - how far does $1.50 in gas take you? Answer: Not nearly as far as electricity unless you're driving something REALLY efficient. In warmer weather you will routinely get 35 miles or more. The car has plenty of pickup and comfortably cruises at any speed you like (including extra-legal) - silently.

 

3) Batteries are covered by an 8 year / 100k warranty as a minimum, by law. Certain states like mine mandate 10 years / 150k. The Prius has proven VERY reliable, but that is an air cooled Nickel Metal Hydride setup and this is coolant-temp-controlled 16.5KW monster Li-Ion battery. Only time will tell - but so far, Volt has been on top of all reliability charts including Consumer Reports. Forums have some higher mileage examples (it's only about 2 years old, at most) and they're proving to hold up extremely well. Mine so far has been wonderful - no hiccups - but it is a baby with barely any mileage on it.

 

The driving experience has been commented on at length in any test you read. In short it is better than any other standard-brand EV (i.e., not Tesla or some high end exotic) out there. It is actually quite European feeling and, considering one of the top 3 cars traded in for Volt is the BMW 3-Series, feels much better than you'd anticipate from an American car. The new Passat has been "Americanized," softened up, and lacks the Euro-feel of the older model. So that benchmark isn't tough to meet anymore.

 

I would say the Volt is a fantastic car in most respects - its primary drawback is lack of space for kids and cargo (barely 11 cubic feet with back seats upright, but much more folded down - and it seats 4, not 5). Its owners, since its introduction, are happier with their car than any other model, or brand, in existence. Count me as one of them. It's my first American car in 15 years, and I'm very pleased thus far. Let me know if I can answer any specifics for you.

 

-MKL

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Hey Moshe.....do you park your Volt in a garage, or outside when you are home? I would be interested in seeing pics of the system you plug into at home and work (if you don't mind of course).

 

The Volt is pretty high on my list to replace my aging Toyota Corolla. That would be accelerated if I could manage to convince my employer to install a charging station at work. I commute 120 miles a day (110+ is highway). I won't be doing anything in the near future, but I'm trying to look towards the future with some home renovations right now. I want to make the addition of a charging system as painless as possible if/when the time comes.

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Hey Moshe.....do you park your Volt in a garage, or outside when you are home? I would be interested in seeing pics of the system you plug into at home and work (if you don't mind of course).

 

Keith, I park inside at home and outside at work. In both places we use the standard Voltec 240VAC charger. Looks like this:

 

x11coat002opt.jpg

 

Costs about $500.00 plus installation. At home, installation set me back about $200.00 grand total including parts for an electrician I know to do the work. The Voltec is weatherproof but at work, we made a little shelter for it anyway. 240VAC cuts charging time down to about 4 hours from totally empty. Of course you can always use 120VAC and such a charger is included with the car, but that means recharge times well more than double, and that makes things inconvenient for me.

 

-MKL

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I noticed you said that you sometimes use the remote start function to warm the interior while it is still plugged in to the grid. Then I read in the manual......"Use remote start to heat or cool the interior when the vehicle is plugged in to maximize electric range by utilizing electricity from the wall outlet. The engine may start to support the climate control operation".

 

This makes perfect sense from an energy standpoint, but what are the chances of the engine kicking on to help while it is parked in the garage? I'm guessing this is only an issue when parked outside in extreme temperatures? It would just be a concern for me due to the bedrooms in my house being directly over the garage. I wouldn't like the idea of the engine being able to fire up and run in an enclosed place directly under where people are sleeping.

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Thanks for the write up Moshe,

 

The salesman said the leases were attractive but because of the $7500 tax credit now, the lease got worse and they want people to buy not lease. He talked about buying initial purchase price with federal tax credit and residual value and such... and I think he was full of baloney.

 

 

How is the acceleration? compare it to an other car.

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Joe Frickin' Friday
This makes perfect sense from an energy standpoint, but what are the chances of the engine kicking on to help while it is parked in the garage? I'm guessing this is only an issue when parked outside in extreme temperatures? It would just be a concern for me due to the bedrooms in my house being directly over the garage. I wouldn't like the idea of the engine being able to fire up and run in an enclosed place directly under where people are sleeping.

 

It wouldn't be the first time remote-starting cars have killed people:

 

Report: Keyless start systems blamed for CO-related fatalities

 

Whatever car you get, I hope your house has at least one CO alarm installed.

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Your salesman is full of it. The $7,500 credit was always in effect and is nothing new. Most Volts are, in fact, leased due to the favorable rates. Acceleration is good. About 9 seconds to 60 in normal mode. Faster in sport mode. You should be able to beat a diesel VW in either 0-60 or 1/4 mile, and that's your benchmark here, so the Volt wins that comparo. Full power in electric all the way to top speed (UNLIKE Prius, C-Max, and all the rest which have grandma-power only in EV mode).

 

Keith, the ONLY time the ICE has ever kicked on in mine is when the temp dips below +25F. It never, ever, ever gets that cold in my garage, but that's a regional situation. What's scarier is many Volt owners leave the car on and forget to shut it down. There is no key slot, and no noise, so all the usual clues about shutting down a car are gone. Many old timers just forget. The battery can then run down, and theoretically, turn on the ICE. I do not know if there is a failsafe for this. I have asked and not really gotten satisfactory answers.

 

-MKL

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Joe Frickin' Friday
How is the acceleration? compare it to an other car.

 

Forbes says the Volt can do 0-60 in 8.5-8.9 seconds. My wife's 2011 Honda CR-V can do it in about 8 seconds, and the Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris are in this neighborhood as well. 8.5 seconds is no Corvette, but it's not like it'll be dangerous in traffic.

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Digging into the manual a little deeper let me find out that the remote start function only activates for 10 min before shutting itself down. I can't imagine that spitting out enough CO to put me out of my misery. My garage also never gets that cold, but it was just a thought that crossed my mind.

 

I think my Corolla knew I was talking about replacing it. It left me sit this afternoon for the first time in its 175k miles. I had just replaced the battery due to weak cold weather starts and the battery being 7yrs old. Turns out the old battery was fine, and I have a bad starter. Now I'm going to have to drive it another year to amortize the cost of a replacement part :rofl:

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Yes, there is a 10 minute limit on the remote warmup, but I don't think that's valid if the car is plugged in. I so rarely use the remote. I physically go out and turn it on, then come back in. I'll have to try that trick.

 

-MKL

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Yes, there is a 10 minute limit on the remote warmup, but I don't think that's valid if the car is plugged in. I so rarely use the remote. I physically go out and turn it on, then come back in. I'll have to try that trick.

 

-MKL

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Good info there. Sounds as if there are some mid model year changes that happened, and there isn't enough first hand experience out there yet to explain everything perfectly for every scenario. This being the first winter that most owners have them, its not surprising that there is some confusion. I'm guessing its also fair to say that most owners probably just drive the things and don't concern themselves with what is actually happening between the ICE and battery systems. It takes a few techno geeks with first hand experience and lots of miles to nail down exactly what is going on.

 

Either way, its all looking promising. Its hard to shell that much out for a commuting vehicle, but if the reliability of them holds up (and I can manage to get a charging station at work), I think it will most likely be my next vehicle. In the mean time, hopefully I can get another 100k miles out my Corolla :grin:

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Have to check one out and drive it. and see how it moves on electric and gas power.

 

I have not read up on it yet, what is the relation ship btw ICE and electric motor?

is the electric motor the primary an d only propulsion and the ICE only runs a generator much like on locomotives? or does the gas engine also drives the wheels via some coupling?

 

My ideal setup would giant battery pure electric motor drive train and a 2 cylinder diesel engine dedicated and coupled to a generator that only pumps out electricity to charge the battery when needed. the diesel would be super efficient running and optimized at a fixed RPM spinning a generator. Could provide heat and A/C as well when needed. electric motor would drive the wheels.

 

 

 

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Almost forgot. I need to realize this.

Power and quickness of the vehicle is irrelevant in this case or 0-60 acceleration would not be the correct way to compare.

As with my diesel Jetta , it may not win the race. but at any given speed only a light throttle is applied to maintain momentum and when the throttle pushed instant pull/ torque is felt, no down shift needed; at least on the modern late model TDI. that common rail TDI and the DSG trans is very well mated.

I would think it would be the same with an electric drive since electric motors are very torquei(?) at any RPM.

 

0-60 race is engine screaming to the max, which is not the way we drive normally.

 

I will report back shortly after my test drive of the volt (hopefully today)

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Joe Frickin' Friday
I have not read up on it yet, what is the relation ship btw ICE and electric motor?

is the electric motor the primary an d only propulsion and the ICE only runs a generator much like on locomotives? or does the gas engine also drives the wheels via some coupling?

 

From what I've read, the ICE, e-motor, and wheels are connected through a planetary gearset, so it's possible for power to flow between any two of those three devices, or all among all three of them.

 

The Toyota Prius has a similar setup.

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George,

 

You are talking about torque. In this case, NO gas engine will ever compare to electric, because electric produces max torque from 0rpm onward. The Volt's powertrain puts out 236ft/lb of torque, and the Passat puts out about an identical amount. All else equal the electric will "pull" harder with less input from you for the aforementioned reason.

 

Mitch, I have read the same re planetary gearset, but no Volt owner I have ever encountered (self included) has ever had the ICE and E-motor operate together in parallel on the display. (In the Prius, it is the norm for both to work in parallel, nearly all the time). I have never, ever seen that happen. In all scenarios including me absolutely beating the crap out of it to see what would happen, the E-motor is in full effect until the battery dies, and then the ICE kicks in as a generator.

 

George, I suggest you Google the Volt for research. Many in-depth articles have been written about this powertrain. More than you want to know is at this journalist introduction conference here

 

-MKL

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I apologize - was distracted. Volt has 273 lb/ft of torque, not 236. The Passat has 236 lb/ft. So, the Volt's advantage (on top of being electric) is even more pronounced.

 

-MKL

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So is the ICE driving the wheels once the battery juice is gone and generating power? Or is it strictly spinning a generator at fixed RPM to charge the battery or provide electric power to the electric motor to propel the car.

 

if planetary gears are used it seems it is propelling the vehicle.

 

I will read up on this later, or ask my knowledgeable car salesman today when visit the showroom.

 

Once the battery juice is gone and driven visa the gas engine, does the ICE ever switch off during your drive at the later time?

 

or the battery has to be fully charged at home?

 

with depleted battery if you stop at the stop light does the ICE shuts of or keep running to charge the battery?

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There Will Be Cake;

 

Seeing as there is already a Jetta in the family you might be interested in this article comparing the VW Jetta triplets - hybrid vs diesel vs gas.

 

Link

 

Of course you could always wait for the 270 mpg XL1 hybrid that is going into production.

Edited by Rocer
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So is the ICE driving the wheels once the battery juice is gone and generating power? Or is it strictly spinning a generator at fixed RPM to charge the battery or provide electric power to the electric motor to propel the car.
My friend has a Volt and his answer is ... Under specific, limited conditions there is a connection between the ICE and the wheels. However, most of the time its used to generate electricity only.
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George-

 

Seems like you're interested in the technicalities, and rather than repeat them here, I'd suggest you Google the drivetrain. I linked above to a Youtube vid which answers many of these questions. There's a nice article available for download here as well http://www.technologyreview.com/view/427688/teardown-reveals-the-remarkable-complexity-of-chevrolets-volt/

 

In my experience the ICE shuts off at stoplights or while going slow since there is always reserve capacity in the traction battery. Remember you are only using about 10KW of the available 16.5KW, so there is plenty of margin for it to do this.

 

As I recently explained in another thread, recently I ran it out of gas to see what would happen then, and it turns out it goes back to battery for another 5 miles or so as emergency backup. So it's actually got TWO reserves, while pure Electric vehicles or pure Gas vehicles have ZERO reserve. In the Volt you've got the original 10KW electric, and then you switch to gas for however much gas you've got left (like a regular car) and then, in emergency, back to electric again. Pretty nifty. The more you become familiar with it, the more you appreciate that they seem to have thought of everything. Truly an engineering marvel.

 

-MKL

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Moshe,

 

Thanks for the links and the info.

I will read them this weekend when I have more time.

I had a chance to drive one we just came back form the dealer.

 

I will do a quick write up a bit later what we observed during the drive.

We were luck that the model we chose to drive had a depleted battery so we could here the I.C.E. in operation.

It was interesting.

 

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I will do a quick write up a bit later what we observed during the drive.

We were luck that the model we chose to drive had a depleted battery so we could here the I.C.E. in operation.

It was interesting.

 

Cool. Interested to hear your thoughts :lurk:

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I, too, am curious. Most new Volt drivers are thrilled under electric power because they're not used to peak torque from 0RPM, but driving with the ICE definitely takes getting used to, because we are accustomed to the direct drive connection. Step on the gas, then instant response. But here, since the Volt’s ICE is a generator, you still get the response, but the audio lags behind the feeling of acceleration, especially if the battery still has some capacity left as the ICE charges it. Often times there is a few seconds or more between the acceleration itself and the sound of the ICE revving. Keep in mind this lag is NOT the actual response – it’s the SOUND of the response in the form of ICE. It's not the norm we're all used to.

 

A good test drive should have involved around town and highway as well, and hopefully some curves. It really does handle quite well for a FWD car, and easily destroys its main competitors in terms of chassis dynamics (which isn’t saying much, granted). The new 2013s also have an EV hold feature my 2012 does not, which allows the driver to manually select ICE mode. This is very useful to those of us with long highway commutes – now the driver can use the ICE on the highway where it is most efficient, and choose electric around town where ICE is less efficient. My experience is ICE MPGs on the highway at typical cruising speeds here in NJ (75+) is low 30s, but around town high 30s are typical. So on a long trip, being able to select ICE to operate in the high 30s vs. low 30s makes a big difference in lifetime MPG average.

 

The next gen Volt will almost undoubtedly use a smaller, more efficient ICE (1L motors are readily available from the GM stock bin) which should push ICE MPGs into the 40s. That would be great. Once can even dream of a small diesel, which would be perfect for a generator's role - but the extra cost and weight of a diesel might not allow that choice.

 

-MKL

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ok here it goes:

 

I will mix positive and negatives in this review as the details are coming back to my recollection.

Starting from the outside walkaround, inside and the drive feel.

I will try to keep it unbiased, but have to use our other cars as reference. Keep in mind this was a 15 minutes test drive not a 24 hours drive for a thorough review.

 

Initial impressions were great.

Good looking exterior, looks great inside, a bit spaceshiplike - all digital, not a single analog gauge or display.

Lot of storage space inside for wallet, phones, cup-holders and such considering this car is rates a compact car.

It is a hatchback so cargo area seems plenty specially withthe rear seats folded down.

Upon opening the doors and the rear hatch, it was pointed out that the car has no spare tire. This would have been a shock to me but I recently learned that my BMW also does not have a spare, but the BMW comes with runflat tires.

Comes with an inflater/mini air compressor.

115V electric charger and connector comes standard, but the salesman did not know how much the 230V rig cost.

 

Entering the vehicle. (This was a fully equipped model)

Telescopic steering wheel was nice.

Seat adjustment only manual, no lumbar adjust - this is a problem for me.

Seat heater was available, and necessary, as my wife will not purchase one without. ( she is mildly cold blooded even by Texas standards).

Main driver display dashboard layedout nice. Speed displayed nicely along with other features. No analog gauges, LCD display like. One thing was troubling is that an oil light was displayed on the bottom, lit-up white. I asked why is it on and displayed instead of being off, salesman said it would flash or blink if oil issues are present.

Middle dash (btw driver and passenger) display is nice all touch screen features but some of the buttons are a bit too close to the bottom of the plastic housing to press (and I do not have fat fingers).

Lot of things to play with there: Pandora radio, weather,traffic USB music, battery features, charging eco and so on we did not spend too much time to explore.

One thing we learned from the this display was the charge time needed to fully charge the battery on 115Volt charger.

 

We drove the car around 7 PM and the display said it would take till 9.30 am to fully charge the bat. on 115V charger. Not good if you need to go to work in the morning. 230 Volt charge option was also displayed was much shorter I think 11PM-ish.

 

Mid dash area function buttons: at night it is lighting up the mid cabin like a 747 cockpit.

Amount of buttons are overwhelming a bit crowded and all look alike, as in not well separated to distinguish different functions. Please keep in mind this was in the dark. May look different during the day.

But it seemed all buttons layouts were the same, same size buttons same color on same color background (silver). Finding something quickly was difficult for a new driver. I am sure it is something easy to figure out and develop use of it. Again we did not play with it much.

 

The drive.

Starting the vehicle does not start much but turns on the electronics. This was expected.

Electronic parking brake- was not expected. There is no e-brake lever of any kind, instead just a small button on the dash.

As I mentioned earlier, the battery was fully depleted in this car. So the I.C.E. was pretty much present throughout the drive.

To best describer the cars power and acceleration is MILD.

We did not feel the acceleration but we got up to 70 mph fairly quickly. The operation of the ICE (<-gas engine) was not in sync with the gas pedal operation and was an odd feeling ( as this was mentioned by Moshe in the above post).

The ICE was a bit loud and whinny at certain points a bit annoying, mostly under hard accell. The engine engagement was seamless but at one point under accell there was a slight jerk or lurch on the vehicle; as it may coupled with the drivetrain to help propel the vehicle.

 

The overall good and bad.

First, I would like to drive one with a fully charged battery I may do that today.

I drove the vehicle about 15 min and my wife about 5 minutes. during that time our average fuel economy was 23. mpg displayed on the dash. I drove it hard to mild, she drove it mild to gentle.

The car's front body bottomed out every time we pulled into the dealer on a slight grade (where we turned around and swapped driver).

The salesman said we should get 40 miles on a full battery. In Texas with high heat and A/C on most of the time I expect less.

 

As of now the problem I see is the lack of ability to charge the vehicle (outside of our home).

Example. My wife's work place is 28 miles away and they park in a dedicated parking spots at the hospital. there is no charging opportunity as of yet. She would be only able to drive on E power one way to work.

So far I only seen one public charging station in my immediate area and that was at a shopping center near a Kohl's clothing store. One stall with E charge with a credit card meter. what they charge /watt I do not know. Was it 230V? I did not investigate.

Will the E charge stations spread in popularity? How fast? Not sure. I guess it will grow with the number of E cars on the road. What will the owners of the station charge /watt?

 

Final thoughts: and this pertains to my situation, as in living in just outside the city, 15 miles min. to urban areas.

The car is certainly a leap forward in technology. I am liberal minded and like new unconventional things, I could grow to love this car. I would even adapt & adjust to its short comings.

At this point the $39K- to $44K price point + tax & fees, and then... your rebates, makes this car a bit expensive. It would take a long time to recoup the cost vs fuel savings compare to an other car. Say $1.62 for the first 30 miles then 30mpg. regular gasoline.

would not beat the diesel jetta she drives now. As I posted before it does get 40-45 mpg all the time.For short uban drive the VOlT would be great.

About 300 miles on gas tank on running the gas engine. COuld be painfull on a trip to longer distances. In comparison my suburban and jetta will do over 500 miles/ gastank, the VW passat claim over 700 miles on TDI.

 

Lack of charging stations. Once employer starting to equip parking areas with charging stations it will be a different story as more electric drive(no gasoline) can be utilized.

 

Battery: it has 8 years and 100K warranty. Li-on battery if I am correct. I am not an expert but comparing laptop and cell batteries they fade and die fast. I am sure the car's battery is made differently and better to last longer. I hope so.

 

A bit of caution.

In compassion to our civics Ni-mh battery which died in 4 years and about 120K miles. We were told no worries it will last.

Also upon trading the vehicle, appraising the car, the appraiser err on the side of "it may need a battery" or "we don't know what shape the battery is in", so they protect them self and price the trade accordingly.

 

The car is innovative and a leap in the right direction.

But as a cautionary measure I would only lease the vehicle at this point, if I can find an attractive lease. My local dealer's offer on lease is far from attractive. Moshe was kind enough to point me in the direction to check other places for pricing I will check it.

 

Let me finish with a bit of controversy.

when electric vehicles take off in sales and become more popular, will the cost of electricity go up and follow what gasoline and oil companies do? Will electric companies bump up the price of electricity to all customers because now they have to build new infrastructure and larger transfer stations update equipments? Will operating an electric car be less expensive?

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>>>>ok here it goes<<<<<

 

Nice, thorough review. About what I'd thought you'd say. Let me answer some stuff:

 

>>>>Upon opening the doors and the rear hatch, it was pointed out that the car has no spare tire. This would have been a shock to me but I recently learned that my BMW also does not have a spare, but the BMW comes with runflat tires. Comes with an inflater/mini air compressor.<<<<

 

Correct. No room for a spare. You can buy tire insurance to cover you over the course of the lease that would cost maybe $400-500 and cover all related expenses. When's the last time you had a flat that Fix-A-Flat didn't cure? For me, it's been maybe 5 years, so I didn't care too much.

 

>>>>115V electric charger and connector comes standard, but the salesman did not know how much the 230V rig cost.<<<<

 

I answered this above. Voltec is $500, and it cost me about $200 including all parts to have an electrician install it at home.

 

 

>>>>I asked why is it on and displayed instead of being off, salesman said it would flash or blink if oil issues are present.<<<

 

Strange. I've never seen mine lit. At the rate these things use the ICE, oil changes of once per year are common. Some go longer..... Services are likewise cheap because there's really very little to do, mechanically.

 

>>>One thing we learned from the this display was the charge time needed to fully charge the battery on 115Volt charger. We drove the car around 7 PM and the display said it would take till 9.30 am to fully charge the bat. on 115V charger. Not good if you need to go to work in the morning. 230 Volt charge option was also displayed was much shorter I think 11PM-ish.<<<<<<

 

As I said, from full depletion, you're looking at around 10 hours using 120VAC to charge. That, to me, is just crazy. Buy the 240VAC charger, and you're done in 4 hours or less. For a busy guy like me with kids, it works out well. I cannot sit around all day waiting for a charge.

 

 

>>>>Finding something quickly was difficult for a new driver. I am sure it is something easy to figure out and develop use of it. Again we did not play with it much.<<<<

 

You get used to it. The ergonomics are quite good for an American car - better than typical German and almost as good as typical Japanese. The buttons react to the electrical current in your finger, so when you touch them it closes the circuit (cool, huh?). Most of the buttons relate to usage of the onboard 30gb hard drive, which frankly you're rarely using except to play (as opposed to recording, deleting, editing, etc.). So you'll be playing the same 4-5 buttons typically, just like a regular car, and in time you will get used to where they are.

 

>>>>>As I mentioned earlier, the battery was fully depleted in this car. So the I.C.E. was pretty much present throughout the drive. To best describer the cars power and acceleration is MILD.<<<<

 

That is terrible. A test drive on a Volt with no battery defeats the purpose entirely. It is like going to a famous restaurant and eating the bread, and nothing else. Drive it again purely on battery power, which is its forte. Also, to get past MILD acceleration, turn the "drive mode" from NORMAL to SPORT mode. This will easily shave a half second off the 0-60 time - a significant difference in feel. Of course, your MPGs will go down accordingly....

 

>>>>The ICE was a bit loud and whinny at certain points a bit annoying, mostly under hard accell.<<<<

 

Again, drive it on battery. At 70mph the Volt is Lexus-level quiet inside. Literally. Once the Caddy ELR comes out with improved sound deadening (it ought to have it, for a $25,000 premium over the Volt!) I believe it will set new records for interior quietness.

 

>>>>First, I would like to drive one with a fully charged battery I may do that today.<<<<

 

Obviously this is mandatory. That is where the car shines.

 

>>>>>The car's front body bottomed out every time we pulled into the dealer on a slight grade (where we turned around and swapped driver).<<<<<

 

The standard air dam is supercar low. You can buy, at no extra cost I believe, an optional higher dam. This will reduce economy and range somewhat because of increased drag, but you will clear bumps and driveways without scraping as much. After a while I learned how to clear things with the low dam, by driving up them at an ANGLE instead of perpendicular. Again, this comes with experience, and with a higher dam you needn't worry about this at all. Think of it this way - this is what Ferrari and Lamborghini drivers have to put up with every day!

 

>>>>The salesman said we should get 40 miles on a full battery. In Texas with high heat and A/C on most of the time I expect less.<<<<

 

Don't count on it. You're thinking as an ICE driver with outside heat and mechanical AC reducing economy. You've got to start thinking in electric driver mode where COLD reduces battery capacity. The HEATER kills your range, much more than electrical A/C. If you don't drive like a maniac, you will hit 40 miles on a charge. I easily did, and my 2012 is only rated for 35 miles - your 2013 is rated for 38, so you should do even better. I routinely beat 50 miles in spring and fall when no AC or heat is necessary, just driving normally.

 

>>>>Will the E charge stations spread in popularity? How fast? Not sure. I guess it will grow with the number of E cars on the road. What will the owners of the station charge /watt?<<<

 

Of course they will grow. Actually, it's "free" for business owners to set up charging stations at their lots now. They even make a little profit on each charge. Problem is then you have the public driving into your lot and loitering around for hours, so most don't do it. We had a Voltec 240V charger at work, and added another when more people leased more Volts. At any one time now, there are two Volts continually charging in our lot, using the sun.

 

>>>>It would take a long time to recoup the cost vs fuel savings compare to an other car. Say $1.62 for the first 30 miles then 30mpg. regular gasoline. would not beat the diesel jetta she drives now. As I posted before it does get 40-45 mpg all the time.<<<<

 

You've got to figure that out again, please, because your calculations are way, way off. Say your $1.62 in Texas will get you closer to 40 miles, not 30, since you have no winter. And your ICE economy in town will be low 30s, but highway high 30s - not 30 flat unless you're running the Indy 500 with it. She has a 28 mile commute. She will make it to the hospital and roughly 30% of the way back home on electric. She'll have about 16-18 miles on gas getting 30s, and by the time she gets home, she will ABSOLUTELY beat 40-45mpg on the diesel VW. She will be in the 75-85MPG range, EASILY. More if she drives gently.

 

 

>>>>About 300 miles on gas tank on running the gas engine. COuld be painfull on a trip to longer distances. In comparison my suburban and jetta will do over 500 miles/ gastank, the VW passat claim over 700 miles on TDI.<<<<

 

You're now talking about the size of the tank, not the economy of the car. The Volt's gas tank is purposefully very small because that gas is going to sit around for a long time in many cases, so all told you're talking about a 350 mile range - but that tank will cost much less to fill than a larger tank on a different car. So this isn't really a knock on economy of the car. Chevy did the right thing putting a small tank on it.

 

>>>>>Let me finish with a bit of controversy. when electric vehicles take off in sales and become more popular, will the cost of electricity go up and follow what gasoline and oil companies do? Will electric companies bump up the price of electricity to all customers because now they have to build new infrastructure and larger transfer stations update equipments? Will operating an electric car be less expensive?<<<<<

 

This is a question that deserves a longer answer, but suffice it to say there is no need to treat the two separately unless you are talking about solar or wind energy. In my case my house AND job are solar, so we pay nothing to charge the cars. In the case of electricity rates have plummeted in response to an oversupply of cheap natural gas which is used to run the utility plants (as coal is edged out due to higher cost and much higher emissions). Bottom line is energy evolves along with everything else. It's not like you're going to lease your Volt and tomorrow be faced with skyrocketing electricity rates.

 

Remember the ratio: $1.50 buys you 40 miles. Electricity would have to go up something like 5x before it reaches parity with gasoline at today's prices. And it's getting even farther apart: If you're watching the market, you see that, in fact, it is GAS that is going up fast, while electricity is dropping. That puts the Volt in an even more favorable position.

 

Many times I have said that my primary reason for driving a Volt is NOT to "save money" on gasoline, but to simply stop using gasoline to the highest extent possible, even if it costs me MORE. My reasons are entirely political, not economic. Rather than delve into politics in this very sensitive forum, see http://www.mklsportster.com/volt/voltwhy.htm for my reasoning.

 

-MKL

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George & All-

 

There is also another thing I forgot to add above. Like you, I went into the Volt thinking primarily about my commute, which is long. About 106 miles round trip, so figure roughly 30 of those miles are on gasoline if I charge at home and at work. This would put MPGs somewhere in the 75-85MPG range, just like I calculated for your wife. And yet....

 

Look at the lifetime average here http://www.mklsportster.com/volt/voltscreenshots.htm At last count, as you can clearly see, I have used 51.3 gallons of gas in 6,479.5 miles, or roughly 126MPG. Why such a disparity? How did we get from our expected 80s to 126??

 

Because we don't realize how many short trips we take! Grocery shopping. Taking the kids here and there. Errands. And so on. Overwhelmingly, most of those are within Volt's electrical range, just as its engineers had intended when they settled on this number. And so, the ACTUAL picture is much, much rosier when you factor in "real life" use on top of your commute. It turns that that, most of the time, you're driving on electricity - even when you have along commute like I do. In a situation with a short commute like your wife's, in warm Texas weather, you should EASILY be able to beat my MPGs. VERY easily....

 

-MKL

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Went back to the dealer today during daylight hour and wanted to drive one with some battery power. The dealer had 8 VOLTs in stock, all had dead batteries.

I asked, why? Answer: Everybody just drives them and nobody plugs it in.

then some babel about construction taking place where the charging stations were... bla-bla-bla.

 

I said please plug one in at the service dept, and please call me when one is fully charged. Then I left.

 

Figured out the oil light thingy.

you scroll through the different options with the wheel on the left on the dash near the driver door. The white oilcan light is just one icon among the many that scrolls around and once you select it it will show you the next oil change interval.

It was the white oil can ( to the left, the green eco stuff was lit up (green s center) and navigation icon was next to it to the right.

 

I must say salesman are clueless. Today the one salesman said it does not have a gasoline engine it has a generator. Argggg.

 

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LEAVE that dealer. Sounds like a bunch of morons, like mine was. For them to have uncharged Volts lying around shows they are totally clueless, and yes, now I understand your oil can logo. Use the circular knob on the left to toggle - most people leave that on a straight odometer which is the most useful info. I can understand you driving the car over there if you must (and you should drive it CHARGED) but I would NEVER buy or lease from such a place again.

 

I must be honest with you and say that the experience at "average" brand dealerships is a horrendous nightmare, almost without exception. They are totally clueless about the car, totally unempowered to make a deal, and in general inept and poorly prepared to make a sale. The treatment of a customer at an "upmarket" brand is enough to make you leave the car you wanted and get something else, just so you're treated like a human being. That will be a strong point for the Cadillac ELR (upmarket Volt) when it comes out this coming winter.

 

When you get your Volt, however, GM rolls out the red carpet. You will get phone calls from "Volt advisers" every so often, looking to get your opinion. I found out firsthand, they really do follow up. They are trying to do it right. You will get routine e-mails from the car itself, updating you on its diagnostics and service requirements when they come up. THAT part is REALLY nice. You feel like they really care about you. But the initial experience at the dealer is beneath whale shit as far as I'm concerned, coming from ~7 years of BMWs where I was treated well.

 

Drive it there at this crappy dealer of yours, but buy from Wes. You will thank me, believe me.

 

-MKL

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no call back form the dealer yet.

THe sales person/ dealer likely have not done much last Saturday night,

if anything they will get on it this morning and may charge one up on 115V.

So I am not holding my breath waiting for a speedy call back form the dealer. I also have a life to live rather then visiting the dealership 3 time a week. :)

if it was meant to be ... it will come to me. :)

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Incredible. Honestly I feel like riding to this dealer myself and wringing some necks. I work in manufacturing, with some pretty serious engineers. I see the blood and sweat they go through to push the envelope technologically every day I'm at work. When they're done, it's my job to convince our customers that our product and service would be their best choice.

 

Here you have that same engineering blood and sweat poured out to create this car, and way down on the totem pole some screwball morons at this dealer don't know well enough about the product OR how to properly service an interested customer, and are turning him off. Idiots. My God, I cannot imagine this effect multiplied across the country as interested people are turned away by this asinine behavior. How many more units could have been sold? How many more satisfied customers would have been possible? Really, it turns my stomach...

 

I wish we lived closer - I'd let you take mine for a spin. That's how I got my coworkers hooked. Since that's not possible, check on that Volt forum I gave you http://www.gm-volt.com/forum/ and ask Volt owners in your area where THEY went, and if they were happy. Go there. Hopefully the results will be different.

 

If I can entice you to write a letter about your lousy experiences, I'd be sure to forward it to my Volt adviser personally, and see to it that something is done about this local dealership of yours. I'm dead serious.

 

-MKL

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I got a call this morning... one Chevy Volt is in the service bay, they are charging it. YEEHHAAA! We are getting somewhere :)

 

he said it may take 8 hours, so it is on 115Volt charger.

 

He also mentioned the service tech said "why bother... it will not drive any different".

 

I however agree with you , the dealer should train the sales staff or have a dedicated person presenting the VOLT to potential buyer since it is so much different from the other cars.

Even I knew more about the car after just a little research then the my salespersons. No joke.

 

 

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Oh my God, the guy seriously said that? Ugh.....

 

I beg you to write me that letter, whether or not you get this car. It will be my pleasure to try to get this corrected so it doesn't happen again. This should NOT happen to a potential customer (early adopter) of a car like this.

 

-MKL

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And who knows if these dopes will even set the car up correctly? Demonstrate all 4 drive modes to you? Explain the proper techniques to maximize efficiency or acceleration? There are a thousand questions. I bet they'll mess them all up. Then at the end of the year, they'll call the Volt a "poor seller" on their lot. Imbeciles.

 

-MKL

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Moshe,

 

Trying to figure out the dealer idiocy in the thread...

So, what are the service requirements on a Volt?

Reason I ask: If dealers make the bulk of their profits on the continuing 'care' of vehicles, would the Volt put a crimp in same?

 

Edited by philbytx
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Joe Frickin' Friday
And who knows if these dopes will even set the car up correctly? Demonstrate all 4 drive modes to you? Explain the proper techniques to maximize efficiency or acceleration? There are a thousand questions. I bet they'll mess them all up. Then at the end of the year, they'll call the Volt a "poor seller" on their lot. Imbeciles.

 

So is this GM deliberately setting the Volt up to fail, or are they just unintentionally dopey about telling dealers how to demo the car? Or is it the dealers themselves who are slacking when it comes to a proper demo, despite having been properly instructed by GM?

 

I could believe the last scenario (slacker dealer). Last summer I test-drove a car (not a Volt) at one dealer, and received precious little education from the salesman riding along with me. Later last fall, I test drove the same car at another dealer, and this time the salesman was very interested in educating me about all of the unique features of the car, ranging from the handling, to the nav system, to exactly how to use the rearview camera to come within a fraction of an inch of a parked car behind me. Night and day difference.

 

 

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