R1150RT Fuel Tank Hose Repair and Pump/Filter Service

Thanks the only size I found is 8mm, 5/16" pretty much the same. I'll look it up to make sure. The Oetiker clamp look like the way I'll go. I'll probaly use the same submersion hose inside and out. While I'm in there I'll replace the filter.

 

Jack

I heard from another member here that submersible hose isn't a good idea outside the tank. It may be that its cover is less abrasion resistant.

30R9 (outside!) FI hose also has UV inhibitors and higher heat tolerances Roger !

 

30R9 (outside!) FI hose also has UV inhibitors and higher heat tolerances Roger !

 

Thank you Philbytx for adding these comments, if you keep repeating yourself I will eventually remember. But just to be sure, one should not use submersible hose outside the fuel tank, is that right?

 

BTW, I had to replace a correct external hose when I allowed it to touch the hot exhaust during testing.

Edited December 18, 2012 by roger 04 rt

Yes! 30R10 is inside use only.....

OK thanks for the information 309 on the outside.

 

Jack

Thanks everyone, I Just replaced my U-hose with a BMW replacement along with the fuel filter. I also did my 24k type service using Beemerboneyard parts and oil. All I can say is Wow about everything I received from them. Top Notch stuff. Only drawback is having to deal with all the authority features on my RTP. I cut my belt cover in half so next time it won't be such a PITA.

Well it happened to me. I meant to fix the fuel lines. I put in almost 6 gal of fuel on a very cold day. I took it for a short ride just to keep the battery up. Next day big puddle of fuel under the bike. I syphoned off about 1.5 gal and caught another gal with a pan. So 4 gal on the ground.

 

WHAT DO I ORDER AND WHERE DO I ORDER?

- New in tank fuel pump lines and fuel filter

- New external fuel lines and quick disconnect

- Fuel sender is intermittiant (clean, repair, replace?)

 

Should I replace the fuel pump while at it?

 

Thanks G

Edited January 17, 2015 by gmcjetpilot

WHAT DO I ORDER

 

Don't forget the vent lines that run through the tank.

 

Should I replace the fuel pump while at it?

 

Depends on how many hours of use it's seen. Mines at 128,000 miles and still going strong. I'm thinking I'll replace it the next time I'm in the tank to do a filter, just to be safe.

 

gmcjetpilot

 

 

You need to start by finding out where the fuel was coming from--

 

It might be as simple as a leaking "O" ring on one of the quick disconnects. (very easy to nick one of those when the tank is removed or re-installed). Cold weather can also effect their sealing. Most common point for a cold weather fuel leak.

 

Or a cracked plastic quick disconnect (very possible).

 

If the fuel was/is leaking from an external pressure or return hose then you will need those.

 

If the fuel was coming out of the vent line or fuel-cap ring drain line (leaking from behind R/H foot peg) then you will need the in-tank vent or drain lines.

 

If you go into the tank for leak repair, then personally, I would install a new fuel pump & fuel pump intake sock as well as all the internal lines.

 

All the in-tank internal hoses are special submersible hose with the pressure hoses also being high pressure submersible FI hose. Same with the hose clamps, those are not easily reusable & are special FI clamps.

 

Beemer BoneYard is as good a place as any for the hoses & clamps you need as well as the fuel pump kit. (VERY expensive from the BMW dealer) .

 

Find your leak source FIRST before doing anything so you know what to repair (might even be a, leaking fuel pressure regulator.

Edited January 17, 2015 by dirtrider

 

WHAT DO I ORDER AND WHERE DO I ORDER?

- New in tank fuel pump lines and fuel filter

- New external fuel lines and quick disconnect

- Fuel sender is intermittiant (clean, repair, replace?)

 

Should I replace the fuel pump while at it?

 

Thanks G

 

It has been stated in the past that Techron can keep the sending units operating and dissolve some corrosion that causes problems with them.

WHAT DO I ORDER AND WHERE DO I ORDER?

- New in tank fuel pump lines and fuel filter

- New external fuel lines and quick disconnect

- Fuel sender is intermittiant (clean, repair, replace?)

 

Should I replace the fuel pump while at it?Thanks G

It has been stated in the past that Techron can keep the sending units operating and dissolve some corrosion that causes problems with them.

 

Thanks for the tip. I found fuel lines, clamps, filter at the two sites below. I don't think I'll replace the pump

http://www.beemerboneyard.com/

http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/

 

As far as the expensive quick couple, I think I'm going with hose nipples and no couple. I figure can just clamp the line and open it up, drain. Cost about $5 verses $75. I don't think I will be removing the tank again anytimne soon.

 

5/16" ID Hose Barb Mender/Splicer/Joiner/Union Fitting Brass Tubing

http://www.amazon.com/Mender-Splicer-Fitting-Adapter-Coupler/dp/B007ZDN9YO

Edited January 18, 2015 by gmcjetpilot

GMC, If you are on the road and you need to get under the tank to check out a problem you will wish you had the quick disconnects instead of dumping gas all over. They shut the flow of gas off when unhooked. Just a thought!

Cold weather can also effect their sealing. Most common point for a cold weather fuel leak.

D.R., you've done it again!

 

Last week I had a light, but definite, fuel smell on my RT that I couldn't find. The smell was there after the ignition was switched on when it was 20-something F (i.e., when the fuel pump energized to generate line pressure). The smell was basically undetectable after the morning commute to the office (QD's right above the right cylinder heat); also not detectable when I started the bike to go home in the evening (office garage temps in the 50s). Eyeballing the fuel tank fittings (looking in through the forks) showed no signs of fuel seepage.

 

I would have never thought of the cold o-ring issue (the same issue that doomed Challenger). With fresh fuel and vent lines and no other visible plumbing defects, the cold o-ring issue is the only remaining logical alternative.

 

This has put me over the edge concerning the QD's. I've been contemplating either replacing them with $80 metal QDs or just eliminating them. Going to metal QDs won't eliminate the cold o-ring problem. The possibility of fuel fumes is not acceptable to me, especially since I daily commute in the winter down into single-digit temps. I have a piece of fuel hose I'll be taking up to the hardware store to use to find a correct OD solid tube fitting.

 

GMC, If you are on the road and you need to get under the tank to check out a problem you will wish you had the quick disconnects instead of dumping gas all over. They shut the flow of gas off when unhooked. Just a thought!

 

Excellent thought. In my case, I'll just add a couple flat hose pinch clamps to my on-board tool kit.

 

Morning ______

 

A couple of thoughts on new quick disconnects, or replacing them with barbed connectors---

 

When disconnecting or reconnecting quick disconnects you need to hold the release trigger firmly down throughout the full removal or reinsertion.

 

If the trigger is just pushed (only) to release then the quick disconnect is pulled apart that can easily nick the "O" ring & cause later cold leaks or even hot leaks.

 

I used to carry those barbed connectors (& proper clamps) in my kit just to have along in case someone failed a quick disconnect on the road. Never needed them myself but used a few for other riders over the years.

 

On all my old BMW boxer bikes I never once broke a plastic quick disconnect & I never installed metal ones. You just can't manhandle those plastic ones though as they do crack easily.

To me the real secret to plastic quick disconnect life is in making sure they are not loaded at an angle & that there is no undue side force put on them from hose routing.

 

Those barbed fittings are great for roadside repair but are a PAIN to deal with at tank removal time. They just won't come out of a used fuel hose without damaging the hose inner lining so the hose usually needs to be cut to get it off the barbed fitting. That works once or so but after that the hose ends up too short.

 

If installing those barbed fittings & new hoses a good plan is to start out with slightly longer exterior fuel (pressure/return) hoses. That usually allows the tank to be unbolted & slid back far enough with the hoses still attached for brake bleeding or minor under tank work.

Well here is the story, it seems like it was leaking around the mount plate, but it could be the fuel line. Hard to tell. There was corrosion around the o-ring. The wires have cracked insulation, internal vent hoses were in bad shape; internal fuel pump line was loose. The external fuel plastic disconnects look OK. The internal fuel filter has an OCT 2011 date. I bought bike mid 2012... I find it hard to believe that they would dig into the tank that far and leave these hoses in bad shape... There was a lot of debris in the bottom black plastic... The fuel pump damper is falling apart and likely what is in the bottom of the tank.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2015 by gmcjetpilot

Wow!

Talk about a "half arsed" job, whoever did that last!

You show a lot of internal corrosion on the plate, was this bike in the "upper" states at all?

 

In which case Heet or something similar should have been used.

 

Well, there is enough wisdom on this board to get you out and about fairly quickly. There are a few of us that did the whole magilla. I replaced everything internal except the fuel pump early last year.

Wow indeed. Looking at GMCPilot's fuel system and remembering mine, I don't understand why all the 1150s don't have the same problems. What do we think cracked his wires? And why do't all the hoses deteriorate?

Evening Roger

 

My guess is heat (hot return fuel)& fuel additives including alcohol.

 

Back in the 1150 era BMW didn't seem to figure in the high alcohol content of some American fuel.

 

 

 

Evening Roger

 

My guess is heat (hot return fuel)& fuel additives including alcohol.

 

Back in the 1150 era BMW didn't seem to figure in the high alcohol content of some American fuel.

 

Morning DR, I also wonder if any fuel additives like Heet, are part of the equation.

 

But if your hypothesis is right, and I've got no reason to doubt it, then when isn't the whole fleet of Oilheads likely to succumb to this type of failure?

RB

I have sourced all the parts... However I need some advice.

 

Should I replace the PUMP?

Should I replace plastic quick disconnects?

 

Where can I buy internal vent hoses?

My internal vent lines were bad so I cut them. There was no saving them. Apparently they are an odd sized hose. The price from BMW from the online catalog is like $40 to $50 each!

Evening gmcjetpilot]

 

Should I replace the PUMP? --At your mileage & given that nasty looking condition inside your tank, personally, I would.

 

Should I replace plastic quick disconnects?, -- Not a bad idea with not knowing the history of their past treatment.

 

Where can I buy internal vent hoses? -- Beemer BoneYard has them in aftermarket offering at lower cost than BMW dealer.

 

 

 

The price from BMW from the online catalog is like $40 to $50 each

 

Are you sure you are looking at the right part? I see 22.97 at MAX & BMW (part # 13532325737).

 

Still expensive and you do need two of them.

 

Stan

Edited January 20, 2015 by Stan Walker

I was able to make the connection with one vent hose from BMW cut in half. However it is a very tight fit and if I did it over again I would buy two.

Evening gmcjetpilot]

 

 

Where can I buy internal vent hoses? -- Beemer BoneYard has them in aftermarket offering at lower cost than BMW dealer.

 

 

 

I've looked all over in Beemerboneyard site for the internal vent hoses. I see clamps for the vent hoses and I see the flexible corrugated in tank fuel hose but not the vent hose. Anyone have a link to them?

Afternoon SAAB93driver

 

They did a while back but it looks like they don't anymore (it's a difficult size to source)-- Call Mike at BB & see if he can help you with sourcing.

Isn't it part number:

13532325737

 

I am sure it is available from the likes of Beemer Boneyard by the Metre.

 

from Motorworks the part number is FUA25737

http://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=6&Q=13532325737&x=16&y=19

 

 

Thanks I called Beemerbone yard, they don't carry internal vent hose. They are 5mm x 10 mm (as labeled on hose). You can buy them on ebay by the meter. I measured my old internal vent lines, they are at least +21 inches. A meter at 39.4" is kind of short for two. Local Autostore O'Reilly has 3/16 which is 4.8mm, which may work, they sell by foot. For fuel lines (8mm I believe) I think 5/16 will work fine, which is 7.9mm. Just buy the clamps from Beemer boneyard. In fact I can buy the filter local I guess.

 

As far as pumps, on Amazon for $69.99 + free shipping is:

CNT Intank EFI Fuel Pump BMW R1150 / R1150GS / R1150R / R1150RT / R1150RTA / R1150S 1996 - 2005

 

If I buy the whole fuel filter pump kit from BeemerBone yard it is $151 with o-rings, new wiring clamps. If I buy the CNT pump and go ala carte I might save $40...

 

ANYONE USE THOSE FLEX HOSE LINES BEEMERBONE YARD SELLS?

Edited January 23, 2015 by gmcjetpilot

 

ANYONE USE THOSE FLEX HOSE LINES BEEMERBONE YARD SELLS?

 

If you are referring to these, yes, and buy with confidence. I cut them down a little bit at the ends, but I don't recall it being necessary.

Make sure the hoses from O'Reilly are submersible rated (SAE 30R10). When I went my local O'Reilly and asked for such, I got the all too familiar blank stare (inspiring minimal confidence). The crap they dragged out from the back room wasn't even close.

Morning gmcjetpilot

 

 

You have to be VERY CAREFUL in the type of hose you source.

 

You can't just use 5/16" fuel hose or 3/16" fuel hose.

 

Most fuel rated hose is only meant to carry fuel on the inside of the hose so the inside is the only fuel rated part.

 

The hoses that run inside your fuel tank MUST BE submersible rated as they see fuel (& alcohol) on BOTH the inside & outside.

 

So the fuel pump related hoses not only need to be rated submersible but also high pressure FI rated.

 

The vent & internal drain hose needs to be submersible rated.

 

Try to save a buck or two here & you will back in that tank very soon with possibly a tow home (or long walk) to go with it.

+1 to DR

 

When I replaced the hoses inside my tank, although the fuel system hoses were brittle an cracked, you could see that they were BMW parts.

 

The vent hoses were another matter. Someone had replaced them and they were spongey and starting to break off the fuel plate. They had been replaced a year earlier to due my complaint at inspection that there was fuel coming out the vent line. So it took only 12 months for a new, but non-submersible hose, to be at the point of failure.

Thanks for the advice guys. I order this pump: Click Me: Fuel Pump

 

I went this way because the Beemer Boneyard pump, fuel filter kit, has different wiring (blade) and the fuel pick up is different. This CNT version is a copy of VDO made in China in same factory VDO made pumps (I am told). It was only $70.00. With other parts, filter, clamps, o-rings, support damper rubber (tear drop shape), I save about $40 over the Beemer Boneyard kit...

 

I bought the 8mm fuel line (7.5mm) from Beemer Boneyard. I still am sourcing vent line (BMW wants stupid money). I think I will go with eBay seller from UK that sells SAE J30-R6 or -R9 high pressure fuel line... These are metric specs, reinforced high pressure fuel lines. Not sure what size I want for the vent line. The metal tubes for internal vent are 4.7mm Dia., the flare part is 6mm... I think the R9 version: FHI-R9-5.6 with the specs: 5.6mm, OD 12.6mm, 225psi, 15bar will be best fit... next smaller is -R9, 4.8mm ID. That might be too tight a tight fit. I tried 3/16" fuel line at auto store, way too tight. A 7/32 windshield-wiper-Vac rubber hose was a perfect fit, but I have no idea if it can sit in fuel. That is a pass. It would be cheap. Ordering vent tube on eBay UK will be about $20 for two. However BMW wants about $30 each for vent tubes. There was no saving mine... So I am not impressed with BMW rubber parts.

 

R9 Fuel INJECTION Rubber Hose Pipe SAEJ30R9 High Pressure Line(5mm 6mm 8mm 10mm)

OR

SAE J30 R6 Diesel Fuel Hose Tubing Unleaded Petrol Pipe (5mm 6mm 8mm 10mm 13mm)

 

BMW vent line is crazy stupid expensive and based on 11 years in service it was in bad shape, brittle, swollen..

 

I did not want to buy the corrigated according tube they sell in pairs. IF ANYONE HAS A SPARE THEY WANT TO SELL ME, I AM INTERESTED.... However I am going to try and use this metal U-tube and short peices. The U-Tube is from eBay:

 

U Bend for Draft Beer Lines (3/8" Barbed U Bend) - Kegerator Hose Bar Fittings( 300838904957 )

 

It may not work, but I am going to try. It is a little bigger than the rubber hose trying to make the turn... Again my backup is beemer boneyards flex tube... Again anyone have a spare Beemer Boneyard tube let me know. I also might make a U-tube out of soft aluminum tube I have. I can tell you the one on mine was hard hard and cracked. The next choice is BMW and about $35-$40 for the rubber U-tube.

Edited January 25, 2015 by gmcjetpilot

YOU WILL NEED TO USE SAE30R10 hose IN TANK as SAE30R9 is NOT for submersible applications. Most of the SAE30R10 in tank hose issues are related to age and also fuel mix/additives.

 

EDUCATIONAL LINKY !

 

If you don't want to redo a job or want the job to last, don't scrimp on your in tank items.

 

As some wise man once said, the cheapest item on a BMW is usually the owner

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2015 by philbytx

YOU WILL NEED TO USE SAE30R10 hose IN TANK as SAE30R9 is NOT for submersible applications. Most of the SAE30R10 in tank hose issues are related to age and also fuel mix/additives.

EDUCATIONAL LINKY !

If you don't want to redo a job or want the job to last, don't scrimp on your in tank items.

As some wise man once said, the cheapest item on a BMW is usually the owner

Thanks Phil... roger that, SAE30R10 is the submersiable hoses.... I found some in 5/16 which will be good for coupling the filter and pump to the metal lines. I have not found 3/16 in SAE30R10. I'm almost sure original BMW fuel and vent lines were not submersible or good for alcohol or ethanol. I took them all off and they were just awful, hard, cracked, swollen… The fuel line, espcially the U-tube was pure scary.

 

I have had the bike for about 2 years. I don’t know full history. I was told original rider put most of the +45K miles on it over 5 years, rode fairly regularly. Second owner let it sit for +2 years. Third owner bought it, rode this 2004 RT causally for a +1 year. It was a Texas, hot down there. I am glad it did not crap out on me during my big adventure last summer. I think the tank leak was from O-ring. It was a blessing in disguise. I’m had planned on digging into fuel system, but without this leak, likely I would have let it go.

 

The last owner had the bike serviced right before I bought in May 2013… The filter had a date of Oct 2011. It had the special clamps. I believe the dealer put this new filter in, yet left the crap hoses. The hoses I doubt were OK +2 years ago.

Edited January 27, 2015 by gmcjetpilot

I have sourced some 3/16" SAE J30R10 for the in tank couple tubes. However the vent line is a pain. I don't want to use BMW or any rubber line. The smallest SAE J30R10 hose I found was 1/4", too big for vent lines... After 11 years all in tank hoses where shot..

 

I did some research and Tygon F-4040-A fuel line (yellow) or Tygon 2075 or 2375 (clear) are highly chemical resistant. For the in tank vent lines this could be the ticket... It is NOT CHEAP stuff... but it makes sense to me. It is highly resistant to all chemicals, including MEK. I am not talking generic vinyl. I'm still researching....

Morning gmcjetpilot

 

It sounds like you looking at 3/16" for in-tank pressure? That should be 5/16" (8mm) not 3/16"

 

Not sure you will happy with either 2075 or 2375 Tygon,-- we use both at work & they are great for gas (not liquid gasoline) & lower temperature usage but neither will stand up long being submerged in HOT E-10. I haven't seen it actually split but it gets very/very hard & starts to leak at the clamping areas.

 

Then you have the clamping issue itself as stock BMW clamps won't fit the Tygon properly & worm type clamps definitely won't maintain a proper clamping seal long term.

 

I did some research and Tygon F-4040-A fuel line (yellow) or Tygon 2075 or 2375 (clear) are highly chemical resistant. For the in tank vent lines this could be the ticket... It is NOT CHEAP stuff... but it makes sense to me. It is highly resistant to all chemicals, including MEK. I am not talking generic vinyl. I'm still researching....

 

Consider Tygon Formulation: F-4040-A from McMaster-Carr.

Consider Tygon Formulation: F-4040-A from McMaster-Carr.

For the 3/16" (8mm) ID coupling tubes, for fuel filter and pump, inside tank, I am using Gates 27093 5/16" Submersible Fuel Hose For In Tank. SAE J30R10 specification. Man it is expensive. I could not find this in 3/16". I called or visited NAPA, Autozone, O'reilly auto parts... They were clueless or cheaper to order off of eBay (or Amazon). None had it in stock... NAPA part number is H209 and it was over $30 a foot. I paid about $20.

 

I also turned over every stone for a good alternative to BMW 5mm (3/16") in-tank vent hoses. I had to trash mine. The local BMW bike dealer wanted $30, sold by the meter (shy of 40 incles). I measured my two vent lines, total is +1.1 meter about +44"... So $60 for two meters, with waste. Also after 11 years my vent lines were just ugly at the bottom, especially where they made the bend radius... That bend strain opens up the rubber for more damage over time...

 

I went with Tygon F-4040-A. The real stuff is in small quantities can be $5 a foot, expensive. WARNING: LOTS OF FAKE YELLOW TUBE OUT THERE. The Tygon stuff has Tygon and part number imprinted. The Chiniese stuff fails. This link below has a catalog with all the specs... ... Rubber gets eaten by the ester's, and now ethanol in fuel. Generic clear tubing has plasticisers which can NOT withstand fuel, so they get hard and crack. The F-4040-A is suppose to work for 10 years from what I read in different forums. Not sure there is any forever lifetime in-tank hose except teflon. Teflon is ridged and hard to clamp down.

 

http://www.piedmontplastics.com/media/275605/tygon%20catalog%20t-110r%208-06.pdf

 

PS F-5500-A is also a good Tygon (name brand) formulation for fuel and is black. I could not find it......

 

Edited February 1, 2015 by gmcjetpilot

By the way I bought 10' of F-4040-A (3/16") in-tank vent hose, so if anyone needs 4', I can send for $7 including shipping.

Edited February 1, 2015 by gmcjetpilot

Well I went a different way. Looks like it will work well.

 

 

 

 

The hose is SAE J10R10 fuel line made to be submerged. The stainless steel U was from ebay as shown a few post above. I had to cut it down, as the barbs were too long. Fuel pump is in temporarily installed with a short piece of hose. I have to re-wire it first. The wire insulation was badly cracked from 10 years of abuse and ethanol. I did not take picture of the vent lines. I am using Tygon F-4040, yellow tubing. It should work well. That is my theory. I just could not find any rubber hose and BMW charges too much for one meter of hose. I figure I need about 0.6 meter per vent line. If they only sell it in meter lenghts I'd have to buy two meters. Forget it. I am not impressed with the rubber they use. SAE J30R10 does not come in a smaller size of the vent line, if it did I'd use that.

Edited March 4, 2015 by gmcjetpilot

Morning gmcjetpilot

 

 

Just watch the filter & clamp position so the filter or clamp position doesn't impede full float moment (your's looks close or even contacting)

Good point, the pictures are misleading, it's close but has clearance. The camps can be clock'ed for more clearance. The float arm almost touches the edge of filter. I have to move the filter down a tad to make sure it clears.

 

I now have to re-wire it. The darn wire insulation is cracked and brittle, falling off. What ever was in the tank really did a number on it.

I wonder if a fuel stabilizer or additive is doing these hoses in.

Ethanol sucks !

 

But if it is merely ethanol doing this, then most of the fleet of Oilheads most need hose replacements ...

Ethanol sucks !

 

I often wonder how many, and which congressmen have stock/investments in Ethanol Production.

Makes plenty of sense why and how it was approved/passed.

I read,forgot where, that it takes more energy to make a gallon of ethanol than that gallon will produce.

Three words...Archer Daniels Midland. A huge contributor to many congresspeople. Not that it would influence them in any way.

Without getting into the politics, ethanol is an octane booster without the problems of lead or mbte.

Without getting into the politics, ethanol is an octane booster without the problems of lead or mbte.

 

So it may be, but every time it has gone in my tank, the bike is DOWN on power.