Rebuilding Marlene

Thanks for all the info / sharing here, been VERY helpful so far as I rebuild Marlene ('97 R1100RT) this winter. She has 165,000 miles and Doc turned her over to me at about 125K a few years ago. Medium overhaul in 2010. Trip planned late May so I need to keep hustling on this.

Have a couple of unanswered Qs to date, and there will be more. She is in parts all over the shop now, only dismantling left is to break open the drivetrain. Final drive boot had oil in it so I still need to decipher that issue. Will leave engine alone except for a front cover that was leaking, and maintenance tasks. Cleaning parts is ongoing now, rebuild to start next week. All advice / cautions appreciated. Specific questions for the group:

1) Can I leave off the ductwork behind the oil cooler? Will it work better without the obstructions? Any benefit to installing just the central piece and leave off the two side tubes? Objective is best possible cooling with stock parts.

2) Can I get LED replacement lights all around? Good / bad / ugly? Power savings?

3) Can I discard the Choke line as it is never used on this bike?

4) Alternator resistance reads 4.6 ohms, manual says to replace if over 3.2 ohms. Was working, but can't say it wasn't weak before teardown. Should I keep it or replace?

5) Paint shop wants about $4,500 to prep & paint all panels - I can't justify that expense. Any advice on painting it myself with spray cans from a good auto parts shop? This is not a show bike, but needs to be "acceptable". Thinking a metallic blue to replace the Glacier Green I don't really appreciate. Tupperware is pretty beat up.

Thanks in advance - I'll keep you posted on this thread as I progress.

1. If you like.....just directs warm air toward you. They got rid of it on the R1150RT.

2. If you like.....as you can certainly replace the stop/tail and turn signal bulbs.

3. DON'T...its not a choke, its a fast idle lever. You will need it on a cold day !

4. Not an electrical guru, others will chime in on this !

5. If you have the time, you could always prep the panels yourself and have a pro spray it .

Here's a discussion about painting RT's

paint

For $4500 you could find a prisitneish bike and swap parts having spares galore.

I would consider wrapping the panels and or using decals for a lot less time/effort and money.

3) The fast idle cable can be gotten rid of even if you live in a cold environment. I had to leave mine disconnected after replacing the left TB due to it not fitting correctly for some reason (which I did not explore much at the time). I have a throttle lock of sorts that I use in the mornings. Accomplishes the same task.

The cost of painting the bike you stated will exceed its total value after the painting. Another option is to look for a bike being parted out that is within reasonable driving distance. I've parted out two R1100RTs and an R1150RT and was super lucky finding a single buyer for all the tupperware from the R1100RTs. The large side panels can be quite expensive to ship due to their large size. I felt at one time that I would be stuck with almost all the tupperware. You get very few calls from people looking to buy it. The exception is the mirrors. I could have sold 20 sets of those if I had them.

Start searching for someone parting out a bike where you can drive to pick up the panels. Even a full days drive just to get to the seller will be worth it. You need to be quick to contact the person so you can lock down all the panels. If you miss the mirrors you can buy those new on ebay. They are aftermarket replacements made in China, reasonably priced and I haven't heard anyone complaining about the fit and quality. Of course those will need to be painted, but that cost will be minimal.

Replacing all the panels is quite easy as you probably know. The headlight cowl is a bit more work but nothing really difficult, just time consuming.

If you score a set of panels, minus the mirrors or shark fins (another item that can go quickly) you can purchase spray cans of the exact color match from Colorite. link

Second helping:

1) Can anyone explain the rear wheel spacer to me? Why is it there? All references say "put it in, don't forget". Marlene has been running without it for many thousand miles. Do I put it in now?

2) What are the "shop rules" for use of anti-sieze and Locktite on bolts during rebuild? Is medium strength Locktite ever used?

3) How about the use of high temperature paint to colour the Valve Covers (not the fins)?

4) Any advice on rebuilding the brake callipers, as opposed to simple replacement? Any kits available, or home remedies?

Last bit of teardown is to find the source of oil inside the Final Drive boot - could be bad, or really bad I suppose.

Morning TimberGuy

1) Can anyone explain the rear wheel spacer to me? Why is it there? All references say "put it in, don't forget". Marlene has been running without it for many thousand miles. Do I put it in now?---BMW's official explanation is that spacer is for rear wheel brake spacing & rear wheel tone ring spacing to the wheel speed sensor (this per BMW severice bulletin anyhow). As long as the rear wheel speed sensor is spaced correctly (correct air gap) & you aren't wearing rear brake pads then probably no reason to reinstall the spacer. If you install new rear brake pads (IE thicker rear pads) then make darn sure that the caliper pistons have some movement left to allow for brake part heating & expansion.

Some have removed that rear wheel spacer with no issues at all & others have seen early rear brake pad wear.

IMPORTANT: If you do reinstall that spacer BE SURE TO RE-SET REAR WHEEL SENSOR AIR GAP

2) What are the "shop rules" for use of anti-sieze and Locktite on bolts during rebuild? Is medium strength Locktite ever used? ---Smart shop rules are to follow the BMW shop manual on where to use what. You can bend those rules a bit but that really depends on the situation & using good common sense. You can use medium strength (blue) Loctite on some things, but again, common sense prevails. When in doubt defer to the BMW shop manual recommendations.

3) How about the use of high temperature paint to color the Valve Covers (not the fins)?---Do some search in the archives here as there are a number of paints that have been used. Some match a little some a bit better. Most paint the entire cover fins & all.

4) Any advice on rebuilding the brake callipers, as opposed to simple replacement? Any kits available, or home remedies?---Not much too offer until you take them part & see what is needed to be done. Front seal/piston kits are available from BMW (at about $100.00 per side) so see what you REALLY need before ordering parts. Rear caliper is more difficult to source parts for so again see what you need then we can try to help you find the parts required.

Last bit of teardown is to find the source of oil inside the Final Drive boot - could be bad, or really bad I suppose.

The only part I have any extensive experience in is the re-painting section. I personally set myself up with a compressor and several guns as I like to restore classic scooters, but that route would not be practical for you. I can however confirm that very good results can be obtained from spray can, very good indeed. The suggestion about wrap is good also as they have come on leaps and bounds in the past few years. One thing is certain though if you do decide to have a go. The main tip is prep. Prep, and then some. Patience is key, and when you think you have it right, spray some mat black on the pannel in question and using 1200 wet and dry wet sand it off, any discrepancies will show up and you will be able to see where you need more work, if you can feel it with your fingers rest assured it will show up in final painting. I can't go into great detail here but if you have any specific question pm me and I will advise where I can, ive not checked out the link posted above on painting, but I'm sure that will be of help as well. I'm off to my brother in laws tomorrow to spray him some bike parts, ive sent my guns over to him and he's borrowed a compressor, why? Because it makes a right mess of my garage when I do spray. That takes me onto my last bit of advice for now and that's do make sure you have a mask on that is rated for paint fumes, it's nasty stuff.

Last bit of teardown is to find the source of oil inside the Final Drive boot - could be bad, or really bad I suppose.

I have seen many of these weep. I think the best advice is to remove the band / cable tie that secures the boot from the FD to the Swing arm. Get a mirror and a torch - take a look up the swing arm tunnel and confirm the oil is not coming from the transmission output seal (doubt if it is).

Next, wipe the boot dry, refit the boot with its band / cable tie. Monitor the weep at the next service.

The amount these things weep is not generally worth the worry.

They often just stop weeping too!

Get a mirror and a torch flashlight - take a look up the swing arm tunnel and confirm the oil is not coming from the transmission output seal (doubt if it is).

 

For the Americans who don't want to melt the drive boot.

Ah, if I'd wanted to 'torch it', I'd have used a blow lamp!

Have started painting panels myself - will have a couple hundred $ (CAD) in supplies by the time I finish. Starting with more "hidden" panels and will have confidence to take on the main body units by the time I reach them I think. It is not a show bike so I'm satisfied with decision to do it myself. Of course it will add 40 hours to the effort with all prep and many coats. Have chosen a metallic blue and a clear coat makes it look so much better. Also painting frame and lots of interior parts black. Gives me the opportunity to really dress it up with lots of matching "accent" painting (handle bar weights, instrument rims, etc).

Today's questions:

1) The pressed steel adjustment rack for the alternator mount (to tension belt) may not be available, not listed on BMW Parts Catalog. So I may end up applying tension with pry bar unscientifically - how can I best gauge proper belt tension?

2) Rear brake calliper - I have removed the two plungers for overall cleaning and evaluation. One of the plunger "faces" toward the pad has a hole in it, and one plunger was much stickier than the other to get out. I find no seals or rings in the calliper cylinder, just machined grooves. It was working fine before the teardown. Can I just reassemble and go? Is there rehab "kit" for this brake, and what would that be? Note - I have new Spiegler lines going on, and it has speed bleeder already.

3) Rear brake rotor measures 4.2 mm thick, less than the 4.5 mm spec for "Minimum = replace". (Front rotors are both at the 4.5 mm spec limit right now also.) What say the group about continued use of any / all of the thin disks to delay the expense, adding those to a maintenance next winter? Any anecdotes of thin discs and catastrophic failure. Note that my riding is all very docile and conservative, main concern is the ability to handle emergency braking situation with aplomb.

4) I have covered the springs for side & centre stands with lengths of heavy duty shrink tubing, long enough to allow stretching (heating just around the ends to close them down. Idea is to just keep out the grit & grim. Anyone every done the same, or see a problem with that? Makes a nice clean look.

1) The pressed steel adjustment rack for the alternator mount (to tension belt) may not be available, not listed on BMW Parts Catalog. So I may end up applying tension with pry bar unscientifically - how can I best gauge proper belt tension?

Where did I read that a good way to check the tension on the belt is to grab it in the middle and try and turn it? It should turn about 90 degrees if properly tensioned.

2) Rear brake calliper - I have removed the two plungers for overall cleaning and evaluation. One of the plunger "faces" toward the pad has a hole in it, and one plunger was much stickier than the other to get out. I find no seals or rings in the calliper cylinder, just machined grooves. It was working fine before the teardown. Can I just reassemble and go? Is there rehab "kit" for this brake, and what would that be? Note - I have new Spiegler lines going on, and it has speed bleeder already.

Max BMW has a repair kit for the R1100RT rear caliper: 34 21 2 330 311 but it looks like only the seals. Dirtrider had mentioned earlier that rear brake parts can be hard to source.

3) Rear brake rotor measures 4.2 mm thick, less than the 4.5 mm spec for "Minimum = replace". (Front rotors are both at the 4.5 mm spec limit right now also.) What say the group about continued use of any / all of the thin disks to delay the expense, adding those to a maintenance next winter? Any anecdotes of thin discs and catastrophic failure. Note that my riding is all very docile and conservative, main concern is the ability to handle emergency braking situation with aplomb.

A new 3rd party rear brake disk is available from Beemer Boneyard for $169.95 US.

Mike Cassidy

1) Brake decision time. Want to thoroughly clean and inspect all brake callipers and innards. If pistons removed, manual calls for all seals to be replaced. Sounds simple, and seems like simple parts, but BMW want about $300 for all seals for 3 callipers. 3rd party performance shop tells me Brembo no longer offering repair kits for liability reasons, but I can buy what they have on the shelf without any warranty / return policy. Suspect new calliper BMW price is crazy, new Brembo aftermarket maybe not so bad - not much more than the BMW repair kit. Questions for the group:

- Am I nuts to clean and reassemble with old seals and run until leaks show up?

- Any other sources of rebuild kits?

- Should I choke down the BMW rebuild parts?

- Should I just bite the bullet for new aftermarket sourced parts?

2) I have removed the final drive, swing arm, and transmission. The oil found in final drive rubber boot came from the transmission output shaft - drops and residue found. Pinion gear in Final may also contribute but it looks like not, and I'm willing to reassemble that and run with it until bigger problem shows up. Haynes Manual says I can replace the trans output shaft oil seal from the outside - really want to avoid opening the trans if possible. Clymer talks about a guts rebuild as far as I have found so far, not external access to this seal. I don't find any more info on this repair - can anyone chime in on it? Not real inclined to just run with it leaking unless someone has solid arguments for that messy solution - smells wrong.

Evidently no trans output shaft oil seal was included in the last rebuild of Marlene - that's why I can't find it. An easy fix is on the wind.

Painting is ongoing and I'm happy with it. Even spray cans add up to a couple hundred to get metallic paint, clear coat, and the black / grey as needed for frame and other parts. Doing one piece each evening so the done pile is growing.

A Canadian fix. The rubber mounts of the exhaust silencer (2) do not exist as replacement parts. Marlene fried hers and they have fallen to hard, crusty pieces. Replacements will be an old hockey puck cut out with plug cutter and drilled for a through bolt, with locking nut to finish it off. Total cost about $4 plus 20 minutes of time.

A Canadian fix. The rubber mounts of the exhaust silencer (2) do not exist as replacement parts. Marlene fried hers and they have fallen to hard, crusty pieces. Replacements will be an old hockey puck cut out with plug cutter and drilled for a through bolt, with locking nut to finish it off. Total cost about $4 plus 20 minutes of time.

These were dropped when the 1100 was updated to the 1150. I would not use a solid through-bolt as this will conduct vibration through to the bike. Small rubber mounting bobbins such as these are readily available - an exhaust fitting shop will probably let you have a couple - and they will isolate that vibration.

Andy

 

A Canadian fix. The rubber mounts of the exhaust silencer (2) do not exist as replacement parts. Marlene fried hers and they have fallen to hard, crusty pieces. Replacements will be an old hockey puck cut out with plug cutter and drilled for a through bolt, with locking nut to finish it off. Total cost about $4 plus 20 minutes of time.

Morning TimberGuy

Just leave them out --

From a BMW service bulletin-- BMW has discontinued the rubber mounts/bolts that mount the muffler to the plate on the center stand. They have come to the conclusion that they are no longer needed as they continue to break.

Assembly is more satisfying than tearing down. An update on my progress:

- Frames all painted and installed.

- Front end mechanicals all done except for brakes (waiting on seal kits from BMW).

- Close inspection and clean up of electrical lines and connections, minor repairs.

- Just placed the spider web wiring in place and started re-attachments.

- Driveline reconnected until the left pivot bolt at Final Drive stripped, stopped waiting on replacement.

- Have painted all the smaller body parts and many accent pieces, starting to prepare the larger ones. Using a metallic blue with clear coat, usually 6 coats total.

Questions and observations:

1) Clymer & Haynes manuals both essentially worthless regards electrical wiring; they focus on the individual units but no info about the wiring, routing, other.

2) CHarris videos advise NOT to use Locktite on pivot bolts in driveline. The last rebuild used it and I suspect that helped cause the failure / stripping of FD left pivot yesterday. Am I right to go ahead installing dry? I made my own special tools for these, cost $50 including machining.

3) Brake rebuild / replacement options were VERY limited; decided to bite the golden bullet for BMW offered rebuild kits (about $325 CAD for all 3). Still awaiting their arrival via slow boat from Germany. Have traded out OEM for Spiegler lines.

4) Painting myself is turning out fine - will have about $400 supplies plus 40 hrs in it compared to the multi-grand paint quote I got. Happy with result and it gives me the confidence to add several highlights / accents that otherwise wouldn't happen.

5) Would love some advice on ways to test electrical systems as I proceed, before things get too buried to access.

Enjoying the process,

 

Questions and observations:

1) Clymer & Haynes manuals both essentially worthless regards electrical wiring; they focus on the individual units but no info about the wiring, routing, other.

There are online downloadable versions of the BMW shop manual and this shows where and how the loom lays. If you are struggling, I am sure we can upload appropriate advice.

2) C Harris videos advise NOT to use Loctite on pivot bolts in driveline.

I personally use the much lower yield 'blue' Loctite not the 'Red'.

Make sure every bit of the old stuff is off or it will screw up your torque values. Once applied, work swiftly.

The last rebuild used it and I suspect that helped cause the failure / stripping of FD left pivot yesterday.

Did you not use a heat gun to break the old loctite. If not, you may well be right that it contributed to the failure.

Am I right to go ahead installing dry?

Do a dry assembly and make sure everything screws together easily, then disassemble, apply blue loctite (only where required) and promptly rebuild and set it up.

Can someone please describe, or point me to, instructions to flush and recharge the entire brake system of this '97 R1100RT? Needs to include, start with, recharging the ABS control module.

I found an article describing the later ABS system and assume I need to do similar - i.e. make a temporary "reservoir" system attached to the ABS module for both the front and rear compartments to fill / bleed them first, then close them off and use the OEM reservoirs to bleed front and rear. Sure it is not a trivial exercise and requires a proper sequence to do correctly.

I have torn down, replaced, cleaned, fixed the entire braking system (leaving the ABS module in tact except for disconnecting all the line and electronic terminals.

Want to avoid purchasing any special equipment in order to do it rapidly - have plenty of patience and skill to create shop-built tools as needed.

Afternoon Randy

Your 1100 ABS-2 system is vastly different than the 1150 I-ABS system (what you call the later system)

On your 1100 ABS-2 system it is straight through-- so fill the master cylinder resiviours, then bleed the fittings on top of the ABS unit until fluid runs clear, then bleed the front brakes at the caliper bleeder screws, then bleed the rear brake caliper at the rear caliper bleeder screws (make sure to keep the resiviours full).

When done go back & bleed the top of ABS controller again (not required but a good measure to assure no air in the top of ABS unit)

It will help keep fluid from squirting out if you toss a utility knife blade, or a simple quarter, into the front brake reservoir over the small holes in the bottom of the reservoir.

CAUTION: brake fluid is very harmful to paint & plastic so COVER everything with plastic bags and/or newspapers including the dash area.

Hopefully someone will point you to a step by step on bleeding the ABS-2 (non servo) system.

Great encouraging news - Thanks dr!

10-4 on the paint and plastic.

In other news, all electrics behind the handlebars are cleaned up, reconnected and ready for testing. I did separate the TPS from the left throttle body and 'assume' I should be ready to tweak its positioning after starting the bike.

I note that I did NOT install a new felt pad on the clutch pushrod (an anti-vibration device evidently). None was found during teardown and then I just forgot about it. It is now on the list of known adjustments for a later time and we'll see how much noise the drive train makes during running. (I'm slow and drive like a grandma so it may not be an issue.)

Spline joints where all pristine.

Timberguy: I have a 1999 RT that turned 116,000 miles yesterday.

Two suggestions:

1. I picked up a Chinese rear brake disc from eBay a few months ago. As far as I can tell, it is dimensionally identical to the OEM part, and after about 3 months of use, I'm still satisfied with it.

2. If your 1997 RT at 165,000 miles has the original left switch assembly, it's a disaster waiting to happen. Mine burned out @ ~110,000 miles. I purchased an upgraded wiring harness from Eastern Beaver, so the current is directed through relays, rather than through the contacts of the switch. Installation is pretty straightforward, and doesn't even require removing the plastic.

Think I am really close to a First Time Start after rebuild. The wiring is all in place and hooked up (except one lead ?????). Painting is almost complete, I did it with cans and tried to paint 1-2 pieces a day to break up the task. The brake bleeding seemed to go fine and accomplished without too much mess, I did have to over torque a couple of banjo bolts to fully seat crush washers.

Time for a reality check and confidence boost from others. Specifically:

1) I took apart the windshield raising motor (gearbox actually) for thorough cleaning, grease, etc. I am positive I have not reassembled it exactly as it came apart and worry that I'm going to break something when it started. Can anyone suggest a test method or reassure me that it will "reset" the contact points when I run it? I don't want to cover it all with nose tupperware before I have it running. That gearbox is really interesting, but I didn't see a way to "set" it a certain way at rebuild.

2) Is there a recommended protocol to test wiring and debug while the bike is naked and before starting motor?

Thanks in advance.

Marlene maintenance before another spring here on wet coast of Canada.  Overall running good and Covid free.

Bike is a '97 R1100RT with 176K miles.  

I wanted to clean up the scratched windscreen so took a sander to it inside and out.  Then a finer paper, then finer still.  Then tried rubbing compounds (multiple flavours including tooth paste).  Tried softer foam backing pads, a wool pad, faster / slower speed, more / less pressure, and then just elbow grease power with a soft cloth.  Even took a heat gun to it.  Nothing - absolutely nothing - is cutting through the haze that you see in the photo.  Are these screens repairable?  Is it toast, or am I just missing some special secret finishing step?  Appreciate any advice from someone with some real experience, if you are going to regurg some Youtube novice ("once and I'm an expert") rubbish please keep your powder dry and listen along with me.  Thanks in advance.  

Another Marlene mystery - and I'm really sorry if this has been covered here in depth (I can't find it).

'97 R1100RT with 176K miles, ABS module  was rebuilt by Module Masters a few years ago.  Bike has battery monitor on it always in the shop, Odyssey batt checked out good 2 years ago.  

I've just bled all the brakes, but did not pull the tank and bleed the ABS module independently.  

I get alternating ABS warning light code at start up and it stays on for "a while", starts alt flashing while parked before take off.  

If I stop and re-start the bike within a few minutes it comes on again.

But, if the bike warms up for "a while" the error alternating flashing will not come back on and ABS works as it supposed to.  

This happens with every ride, and was happening before the bleed operation this spring.

Related to temp of brake fluid?  Related to voltage of battery?  Any other ideas.

Going with it now, but would be nice to know what's going on.  

3 hours ago, TimberGuy said:

Marlene maintenance before another spring here on wet coast of Canada.  Overall running good and Covid free.

Bike is a '97 R1100RT with 176K miles.  

I wanted to clean up the scratched windscreen so took a sander to it inside and out.  Then a finer paper, then finer still.  Then tried rubbing compounds (multiple flavours including tooth paste).  Tried softer foam backing pads, a wool pad, faster / slower speed, more / less pressure, and then just elbow grease power with a soft cloth.  Even took a heat gun to it.  Nothing - absolutely nothing - is cutting through the haze that you see in the photo.  Are these screens repairable?  Is it toast, or am I just missing some special secret finishing step?  Appreciate any advice from someone with some real experience, if you are going to regurg some Youtube novice ("once and I'm an expert") rubbish please keep your powder dry and listen along with me.  Thanks in advance.  

Morning   TimberGuy

Those OEM windshields are coated with a harder surface that is REAL PAIN to deal with, once you break through that coating (very easy to do) then you need to totally polish it out. Unless very good at such things that usually leaves a wavy surface that has a lot of distortion. Even then it won't hold up as those windshields are hard coated for a reason.

Time to replace (or cut it down shorter then paint it, then look over it not through it).

3 hours ago, TimberGuy said:

 

3 hours ago, TimberGuy said:

Another Marlene mystery - and I'm really sorry if this has been covered here in depth (I can't find it).

'97 R1100RT with 176K miles, ABS module  was rebuilt by Module Masters a few years ago.  Bike has battery monitor on it always in the shop, Odyssey batt checked out good 2 years ago.  

I've just bled all the brakes, but did not pull the tank and bleed the ABS module independently.  

 

I get alternating ABS warning light code at start up and it stays on for "a while", starts alt flashing while parked before take off.  

If I stop and re-start the bike within a few minutes it comes on again.

But, if the bike warms up for "a while" the error alternating flashing will not come back on and ABS works as it supposed to.  

This happens with every ride, and was happening before the bleed operation this spring.

Related to temp of brake fluid?  Related to voltage of battery?  Any other ideas.

Going with it now, but would be nice to know what's going on.  

Morning  TimberGuy

Sure sounds like low system voltage during cold starting. At least that is the place to start your troubleshooting. (put a voltmeter across the battery posts then see what your cold cranking voltage is). 

Once the engine warms up the oil gets thinner, the engine spins over easier, & the battery has more charge, so there is then enough system voltage to keep the ABS system happy.  

Try jumping from another vehicle for a cold start then see if the ABS doesn't default.

You can modify the ABS 12v input using a relay or a switch so it won't initiate the ABS system until AFTER engine starting  but that won't correct a battery that is getting old & low on cranking power. 

When the 1100 ABS is starting to fault on most starts that is usually telling you something about your battery condition.

The other thing to look into is the starter itself, on those old 1100 bikes the starter magnet (or magnets) can  come unglued therefore raising the starter current draw but that usually doesn't get better as the engine warms. Plus, once a magnet comes loose they quickly go from starting to not starting.   

As always, very helpful D.R. - sure appreciate your calm patience with me.  Now have a funky wind screen for sculpture project.  Batt has had an amazing long life, not unhappy if it needs to be put out to pasture.  Clean dry roads to all.  

New Odyssey battery cleared up all my issues - except the cloudy wind screen.  The previous Ody battery lasted 10 years at least which is pretty amazing.  No brainer to look for another one to put in, better yet I had to ride 3 hours to get it.  

I have genuine NOS BMW windscreens for the 1100/1150 RT's. Tryin to clean out the garage..........PM if interested.