Jump to content
IGNORED

2007 R1200RT Final Drive Failure after rear wheel flange recall performed


Bruce Gardner

Recommended Posts

Bruce Gardner

Last month I purchased a used 2007 R1200RT with 13800mi on the clock from a private owner. The bike had all the maintenance and recalls performed by MAX BMW in CT & NY and oil & filter changes in between by the previous owner as well. Very clean bike, garaged, well taken care of. The last recall done before I purchased the bike was the rear wheel flange recall. I put less than 400mi on the bike and the final drive completely failed on the way to the MAX BMW dealership in Troy, NY which is only a few miles from my home.

I'm extremely unhappy, having owned other older BMW shaft drive bikes in my past with no FD issues at all to speak of other than just normal maintenance and changing the fluid and such. This bike is well out of warranty, has anybody had any luck getting BMW Motorrad to cover the cost of the FD at all?

Link to comment
The Rocketman

has anybody had any luck getting BMW Motorrad to cover the cost of the FD at all?

No...at least not me....

 

One would think that the dealer who installed the new wheel flange would have checked for movement/play in the drive and bearings, and if they found any, would have recommended fixing it then. Although failed final drives don't give you much notice when they're about to go. I would check with MAX by giving them your VIN#, and see if the dealer who replaced the flange recommended FD repairs, and maybe the PO forgot to mention it.

 

So far, my '09 RT final drive has been fine.

On my R1200C, I had 3 final drive failures. The first two I noticed the fluid spraying on the tires, pretty far from home but was able to get home. I had that drive rebuilt twice, and it failed both times within 600 miles.

The 3rd time I was 30 miles from home and had a "catastrophic" failure. Started with a rear wheel severe wobble, and within seconds gears grinding. That one required a tow home.

Dealer wanted to rebuild it again. This time I wanted to buy a brand new one. There were none available in the planet, and Bob's BMW special ordered me one from Germany, at the tune of $1300. It took almost 6 months to arrive. That is in my attic as a spare.

Meantime, I bought a used, low mileage one for $550 which has been on my bike for over 30,000 miles and is running great.

The one I had rebuilt several times that was trashed, I sent to Bruno's in Ontario, and that one was completely rebuilt for $600. That also sits in my attic for a rainy day. I have 2 R1200C's, so I look at it as insurance.

So the short answer seems to be BMW will not warranty an out-of-warranty bike, although a rebuilt unit comes with a 2 year parts, 1 year labor warranty if you go that route. Also depends if you need just the seals, or bearings and gears as well.

Or there are several on Ebay relatively affordable if that's an option.

There used to be a BMW Final Drive Failure Registry on the web, which was filled with horror stories. That site was taken down after (I think) BMW's attorneys got wind of it.

Either way, it wouldn't hurt to ask MAX to cut you a deal, and I wish you good luck.

Link to comment

Afternoon Bruce

 

 

 

You can try but seeing as you weren't the owner of record at the time the recall was done you are going to have a difficult time.

 

There is just no way to know IF that failure was caused by the flange work (very possibly was) or the bearing was going to fail anyhow & the flange work had no input on it.

 

If the flange & spool was beat on, or the flange was heated too hot, then it easily could have been the cause of the problem.

 

Document the mileage & time that the repair was done as well have your serial number handy then start with the repairing dealer & if no help there call BMW & TRY to get them involved.

Link to comment

What exactly do you mean by "...the final drive completely failed..."? Is it leaking? Is there noticeable play in the rear wheel? Is there a problem with the flange? Maybe it just needs a bearing, and not the entire final drive replaced.

Edited by marcopolo
Link to comment
Bruce Gardner

It was first losing all of it's grease, then it lost all of it's drive fluid all over the place on the way to have it looked at the BMW shop.

The flange recall was just done 300 mi before this happened.

Trust me, it's toast.

Link to comment
It was first losing all of it's grease, then it lost all of it's drive fluid all over the place on the way to have it looked at the BMW shop.

The flange recall was just done 300 mi before this happened.

Trust me, it's toast.

 

Morning Bruce

 

Are you saying that the crown bearing spit it's grease out the wheel flange side then it leaked all the gear oil out that same side only 300 miles after the flange recall?

 

Can you document this? If so then you probably have a good claim against the recall as the start of problem. (not being the owner of record at time of recall might hinder your case though)

 

What does the dealer that did the recall have to say about your problem?

Link to comment
The Rocketman

Good call. I agree. If everything blew out the wheel flange side, I think you have a good case for a dealer to cover it. If it blasted out from the outside, I think you're on your own. I'm almost 100% sure that when MAX did my flange recall, they replaced the seal on the inside. I think its normal practice to do so. I hope for your sake that was the problem.

Link to comment
Pat_Da_Geeeze_Donahue

I tried taking that flange off my 2007 RT and I guess it's a press fit. It might come apart with a puller and enough heat on the flange to expand it. If you used too much heat could it damage the seal?

Link to comment
Bruce Gardner

I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not blaming MAX BMW at all, in any way! They performed the wheel flange recall and may have recommended that the FD be looked at in more detail to the original owner of record at that time. I kick myself for not checking for play in the wheel when I bought the bike from the original owner.

I realize that not being the owner of record when the recall was performed pretty much leaves me out in the cold.

Link to comment
I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not blaming MAX BMW at all, in any way! They performed the wheel flange recall and may have recommended that the FD be looked at in more detail to the original owner of record at that time. I kick myself for not checking for play in the wheel when I bought the bike from the original owner.

I realize that not being the owner of record when the recall was performed pretty much leaves me out in the cold.

 

Morning Bruce

 

Checking the rear wheel play probably wouldn't have shown you much. Unlike the older 1100/1150 bikes that use a bearing preload the newer 1200 hexhead/camhead don't so up to 1mm movement at the rear wheel rim is considered normal.

 

On hexhead/camhead bikes, honestly, I worry more about the ones that don't have rear wheel movement (cold baring) than the ones with some wheel movement.

 

Have you contacted Max, they might just take care of it for you if it was their fault. Never hurts to try anyhow. If they mentioned something to the old owner about impending problems that should have been written on the repair order to protect them.

Link to comment
Bruce Gardner

I actually have the RT at MAX BMW in Troy, NY now. I have the paperwork from the RO when the flange recall was done, no mention of impending problems to be addressed.

Link to comment
Bruce Gardner

I am no stranger to BMW bikes. I have owned a 99 R1200C, Boxer Cup Replica and a K1200RS before this RT and I have never had any issues with the shaft drive or FD in any way with tens of thousands of miles being driven. I love the bikes and trust MAX BMW, they are great people that are always there to help in any way they can.

Link to comment
  • 3 weeks later...
Bruce Gardner

Just got the RT back from Max's today with the rebuilt FD.

Going out for a ride now to check it out. :-)

Link to comment

Perhaps the previous owner knew it was on the way out and that was part of the reason for selling it/trading it...

Link to comment
Bruce Gardner

Could very well be, the deal I made was fairly good though so even with the cost of the rebuilt FD, I'm still ahead of the game.

Link to comment

My 2007 did the same thing. Had San Jose BMW do the recalls on the bike last year BEFORE a "long" trip, and they said nothing about the rear end being bad. Noticed a noise, checked and had play in the rear tire. Now, $850 later and work by a GOOD shop, bike is running again. They HAD to replace the final drive, as ALL of the grease was gone on the bearing, and it wore the hub, NLA part. Ben put in a used '09 FD he had, and it been good so far. This is with about 68K on the bike, and service work kept up with.

Link to comment
  • 1 year later...

I'm going to bump this thread to see if anyone has had an luck getting BMW to cover the cost of a final drive failure soon after the rear wheel flange was replaced for the recall. My 2009 1200RT had a FD failure (loose, oil puddle, near loss of control going down the highway ) about 3,000 miles after the rear wheel flange was replaced. Coincidence or related? Any new thoughts on the topic? Should I go ahead an spend extra to get a new FD or have the old one fixed if BMW won't cover it?

 

Thanks. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Al

Link to comment
I'm going to bump this thread to see if anyone has had an luck getting BMW to cover the cost of a final drive failure soon after the rear wheel flange was replaced for the recall. My 2009 1200RT had a FD failure (loose, oil puddle, near loss of control going down the highway ) about 3,000 miles after the rear wheel flange was replaced. Coincidence or related? Any new thoughts on the topic? Should I go ahead an spend extra to get a new FD or have the old one fixed if BMW won't cover it?

 

Thanks. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Al

 

Evening AL

 

How loose? up to 1mm cold at the wheel rim is in specs.

 

That 3000 miles thing makes it difficult to get BMW to help. A few hundred miles or even maybe 1000 but at 3k it is going to be difficult to get BWM to do much unless you can positively show that the leak was caused by the flange install.

 

But if it were me I would hound BMW to death, clear to the top if needed. You never know, they might repair it for you.

 

Link to comment

Thanks for the reply, DR. I agree that 3,000 miles is stretching it, but usually BMW gives a two warranty on their repairs. Even though the wheel flange is not the same as a final drive failure, they did work on the final drive and thus should have a two year warranty. I'm dreaming.

 

"How loose?" It was more than a millimeter at the rim. The bike was really shaking and wobbling when it started failing and I was going about 80 mph, which is the legal speed limit in Utah on interstates.

 

Do you have an opinion about rebuilding verses finding a whole new FD for reliability?

 

Thanks again,

Al

 

 

Link to comment
Thanks for the reply, DR. I agree that 3,000 miles is stretching it, but usually BMW gives a two warranty on their repairs. Even though the wheel flange is not the same as a final drive failure, they did work on the final drive and thus should have a two year warranty. I'm dreaming.

 

"How loose?" It was more than a millimeter at the rim. The bike was really shaking and wobbling when it started failing and I was going about 80 mph, which is the legal speed limit in Utah on interstates.

 

Do you have an opinion about rebuilding verses finding a whole new FD for reliability?

 

Thanks again,

Al

 

 

Morning Al

 

Yes, BMW gives a 2 year warranty on (paid) repairs. At one time they stated the non-paid warranty was 2 years OR end of normal motorcycle warranty but that could have changed so check with BMW & the dealer that did the job.

 

The BMW dealer could have overheated the flange during installation (my guess is they did) but I don't know how you are going to prove that.

 

Yours might just need a new crown bearing & seals but that can't be determined until it is taken apart. If you buy a used one then it might not be any better than yours after repair.

 

Personally I would re-build the one in the bike (if BMW does it then you should have a 2 year warranty)

 

Hopefully BMW will at least pay part of the repair for you.

 

 

 

Link to comment

Thank you for the reply, DR. I heard from the dealership today and they want to just replace the FD for $2,990 rather than try to repair it. A local BMW master mechanic in an independent shop will look at it and repair it IF the case and the main axle are not damaged. If they are, he recommends replacement. However, out of about 50 he's worked on, only 1 couldn't be repaired and none have come back to the shop. So that's the way I'll go. Also, he's seen other final drives that have failed after the wheel flange recall and replacement was performed. -Al

Link to comment

So as i joined this i have a question(s)

1. Are they defective based on a run of the bearings that were speced wrong and

2. Are they failing as a result of above regardless of mileage

3. Warr(lmao) or hidden warr?

In advance thanks

Bill

Link to comment

1. Are they defective based on a run of the bearings that were speced wrong and

2. Are they failing as a result of above regardless of mileage

3. Warr(lmao) or hidden warr?

 

Morning Bill

 

If you are referring to the hexhead wheel flange recall--

 

The wheel flanges were recalled because they were made of alloy & were cracking through the brake rotor bolt holes & cracking through the wheel bolt holes. The replacements are made of steel so much stronger.

 

The flanges are a tight press fit on the final drive spool splines so need to be heated (correctly) to be installed. Some dealers are overheating the flange as they go on easier that way, or they just heat the new flange while removing the old one but that can over-heat it depending on how long it takes to remove the original.

 

Or the new flange hangs up part way on & gets stuck so the tec heats the heck out of it to get it all the way on.

 

In either case the excess heat transfers to the crown bearing & ruins it or it's seals.

 

 

Link to comment
aggieengineer

The flange replacement process made me a bit nervous. The first dealer I asked about it couldn't tell me anything about the heating process. The second dealer was more specific, stating that it was only heated by an electric plate, and described the procedure. I had been envisioning somebody using a propane torch and just guessing about the temperature.

 

As an additional precaution, I put the FD in a refrigerator for a couple of days, and delivered it to the dealer in an ice chest. Got it back about 30 minutes later - still cold. Don't know if it helped, but it made me feel a bit better!

Link to comment

Actually I am referring to the bearing. Didn't even know about the flange recall. But it makes sense that every shop has their own way of doing stuff.

Thanks for update on warr on flange guess I'll ask dealer about that.

The job if it were done in my opinion the second responded would be the way I'd do it.

Thank you

Link to comment
Actually I am referring to the bearing. Didn't even know about the flange recall. But it makes sense that every shop has their own way of doing stuff.

Thanks for update on warr on flange guess I'll ask dealer about that.

The job if it were done in my opinion the second responded would be the way I'd do it.

Thank you

 

Morning Bill

 

 

Many reasons for the crown bearing failure but I doubt BMW furnished improper specs. It's possible some of the failed bearings were near the tight end of their C rating though. More than likely just a stack up of dimensions that led to tight bearings.

 

The main problem with the BMW hexhead final drive design is it relies on perfect bearing size, perfect spool OD & perfect cover bearing hole ID. If the drive ends up with a stack up of crown bearing running to high end of specs, the spool ending up to high end of specs & the cover hole ending up to low end of specs then you end up with a tight bearing that fails. (problem is, BMW doesn't furnish any of the specifications on the spool OD, cover hole ID, or bearing size or C rating)

 

Link to comment
The flange replacement process made me a bit nervous. The first dealer I asked about it couldn't tell me anything about the heating process. The second dealer was more specific, stating that it was only heated by an electric plate, and described the procedure. I had been envisioning somebody using a propane torch and just guessing about the temperature.

 

As an additional precaution, I put the FD in a refrigerator for a couple of days, and delivered it to the dealer in an ice chest. Got it back about 30 minutes later - still cold. Don't know if it helped, but it made me feel a bit better!

 

 

I also just had the flange replaced against my wishes. Which did indeed make me unhappy, I can't say nervous, I just didn't like the idea of someone fiddling with my bike, particularly with something that wasn't broke, or a problem.

 

I questioned them about it, and they of course said oh, no the drive never then goes bad.

 

I'll see.

 

He also said they would take care of it if it did. I'll see if that becomes the case.

 

I would think that BMW has given the dealers a very specific procedure to change the flange. And as has been pointed out here it must be done right or it can ruin the drive.

 

However, does the dealer, or the mechanic follow that procedure? Or do they like to do it their "better" or "easier" way?

dc

 

And is the specific BMW procedure the right way to do it?

Edited by David13
Link to comment

 

I would think that BMW has given the dealers a very specific procedure to change the flange. And as has been pointed out here it must be done right or it can ruin the drive.

 

However, does the dealer, or the mechanic follow that procedure? Or do they like to do it their "better" or "easier" way?

 

 

Evening David

 

BMW has, BUT what they haven't properly addressed is how to handle problem installs. Like what to do when the flange slides part way on then seizes, or removing the old flange cold (I know of 2 dealers in my area that do that)--They will come off cold BUT that also removes the corrosion protection on the axle splines.

 

Or properly removing any corrosion on the axle splines so the new flange slides on easily & evenly.

 

Personally I asked to see the puller that they use to remove the old flange. My dealer's puller looked pristine with no hammer mushrooming on the puller bolt head. (if that puller bolt shows heavy hammer marks or mushrooming then you know darn well that they have been beating on some customers crown bearing).

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...