The Rocketman Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Contemplating buying a BMW from a private seller in Toronto. I live in New York. (1) Can I just go there, buy the bike and trailer it home? (2) Does it need to be inspected/registered in Canada, or can that wait until I get home? (3) Do you think the BMW dealer in Toronto can facilitate the transaction for me? (4) Any issues getting back over the border? Anything else you can think of? Thanks, Larry Link to comment
kioolt Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 I don't know the answer to any of your questions, but I do have a suggestion. Called your local motor vehicle department and ask them your questions. I'm sure they can answer most of them. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Morning Larry I also can't outright answer your questions but can caution you to be darn sure that bike meets USA emission specifications & has the US emission compliance certification sticker on it. It is very expensive & time consuming to import a non USA emission compliance vehicle. Link to comment
The Rocketman Posted August 14, 2016 Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 Found a broker Cole International from Port Huron and Rochester who quoted me around $350 to handle all the paperwork. Will be calling BMW Toronto tomorrow to see if they can handle DOT and EPA emissions for me. I think specs on the bike are same for US and Canada. Have a friend going over as we speak to get me pictures and to verify VIN#. Time will tell... Link to comment
gordiet Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 I've done it 3 times. Not A big deal to do. Depends on the age of the bike, what country it was originally sold in. It's a lot easier to use a broker for sure. Keep in mind that the speedo will be KPH not MPH if it is newer bike. GT Link to comment
The Rocketman Posted August 14, 2016 Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 It's a 2004 with 30,000km. Import duties they estimated at 5% or less. Link to comment
tallman Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Royal pain for individual. Doable. Use a company that does it. Will cost some bucks. Link to comment
The Rocketman Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 Wow, this is much more difficult than I had imagined. Service Manager at Budd's BMW in Oakville, ON says he has never heard of a BMW or Harley being exported from Canada into the US successfully. US to Canada is easy. Canada to US is almost impossible. If I can do it, he says I'd need to add the charcoal canister, change the CAT code plug, and change the instrument cluster from KM to MPH so the odometer reads in MPH in order to register it in the states. All that is feasible. US Border Patrol at Buffalo says if I don't show up with Emissions Certification and Emissions sticker, they won't let me cross the border. Talked to the customs broker, Cole International in Port Huron in a couple of hours to see what magic they can come up with. They couldn't help as they're not a registered vehicle importer with NHTSA. Newest wrinkle.. As per BMW North America and BMW Canada, the emission compliance letter can only be obtained from a registered NHTSA importer. Spoke to a very knowledgeable guy in Hamburg, NY (of all places) who I just e-mailed the VIN# to. He's going to contact BMW NA to see if they'll waive the requirements due to the rareness of the bike. Otherwise, CAT code plug, charcoal canister, and kmph to mph instrument cluster conversion has to be completed by him or a registered Canadian BMW dealer before it can be released into the states, and photos of the conversion need to be shown as well as a visit to a lab to test the emissions. He also has to physically go get the bike and I can pick it up from him. $300+/- for pickup, plus $ 675 for all DOT customs clearing docs. Holy cow Batman! Link to comment
StuGotz Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Unless this bike is priced so low, or some kind of rare collector, I wouldn't bother. Jeez, what a hassle. Gonna keep it forever? Selling it in the future may be an issue. Some folks just don't want a bike that's been modified, regardless of whether correct or not. Good luck sir MB> Link to comment
catskill Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 (edited) I have been importing and exporting for many years. A couple of years after 9/11 Congress decided that CBP was too lax, and turned all their employees into nasty police officers. But, in all fairness, the CBP officers can get fired or even go to jail for mistakes. So, they always error on the side of keeping their job. Over the years, I have had a couple shipments seized by CBP. Usually for really dumb reasons. Once your shipment is seized, it becomes a "hot potato" that everyone wants to stay away from. If this happens to you, it can be a nightmare beyond your imagination. What you should fear is that CBP seized your bike for non-compliance. You must correct it quickly. If you try to ship it back to Canada, they may reject it. If this happens, it will most likely be destroyed by CBP. Happens all the time. The other problem you are going to have is insuring the bike. Your insurance agent in NY will require a VIN. That VIN will have to be in the BMW US database, or they will not insure it. Also, expect NYS to require an inspection of the bike after you get it registered. During the inspection they will look for stolen parts and compliance. Any problems can result in them removing that part and handing the remaining bike back to you. Here is what most people do. They have the owner ride the bike into the US. Exchange paper work, and they return home to Canada. Find a wrecked or part bike that is very similar. Buy the frame with title. Register and insure that title. Then transfer the VIN plates to your new bike. Cheaper and easier. If you try to import the bike, you have a lot of hurdles to get over. It can be done, but in my opinion it is very risky. Edited August 16, 2016 by catskill Link to comment
realshelby Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Here is what most people do. They have the owner ride the bike into the US. Exchange paper work, and they return home to Canada. Find a wrecked or part bike that is very similar. Buy the frame with title. Register and insure that title. Then transfer the VIN plates to your new bike. Cheaper and easier. Transferring VIN numbers/plates from one vehicle to another is one of the most illegal things you can do in the United States. The FBI has zero tolerance for this. Insuring a bike with a different VIN than reported to the insurer is also fraudulent. This is why it is SO difficult to import vehicles, it is a common place to find stolen or VIN tampered vehicles. Link to comment
The Rocketman Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 (edited) RE: Unless this bike is priced so low, or some kind of rare collector, I wouldn't bother. Jeez, what a hassle." Here's why I want this bike so bad and will do most anything to get it: (1) There were about 44,000 R1200C's, Montauks and CL's built from 1998-2004 of which Montauks were only 2004 models (2) The cruiser line was discontinued basically in 2004 (3) In 2005 BMW produced only 350 commemorative editions of the Montauk in Piedmont Red & Silver with some extra chrome bits. That color was not available in any other model or year ever, and was built to commemorate the end of the cruiser line or era. (4) Out of the 350 made, only 6 made it to North America, and all of them landed in Canada. (5) The last 2 of these I ever saw sell, went for 2 to 3 times what I can buy this one for (which is the least important aspect to me). I want it for the prestige, for the rarity, for the pleasure and I will keep this as close to forever as possible. This is not being bought as an investment, to flip it and make money, or to make it a museum piece. I'm trying to get this for the love of the bike, and to ride it. I already own a 2002 R1200C and a 2004 Montauk. This bike is like the "Holy Grail" of BMW cruisers for guys like me. It has a strange stigma attached to it. Guess its like owning a low serial number Shelby or the like. The uniqueness, beauty and heritage is worth all this effort. Here she is in all her glory... Edited August 16, 2016 by The Rocketman Link to comment
The Rocketman Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 The other problem you are going to have is insuring the bike. Your insurance agent in NY will require a VIN. That VIN will have to be in the BMW US database, or they will not insure it. Just spoke to my insurance broker. I have my 4 existing bikes with Foremost. Broker told me Foremost or Progressive will insure the bike for $360/yr. Neither offers stated value, just actual cash value replacement in the event its stolen or totaled with value at that time to be determined by Crain's. Would have to look for collectible insurance for stated value policy, which would cost more and limit my use of the bike. She could not find the VIN# in the US database, but said they can insure it using the Canadian database with no problem. US database also doesn't show a 2005 Montauk; just 2004. But she said with the seller's title (which shows 2005) it will be insured as a 2005 model. Link to comment
powwow Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 The poster mentioned on another forum site there were only 350 of this particular BMW bike built for worldwide distribution and only 6 of those were shipped to North America (only Canada distribution...none in the U.S.) This is why he's going to so much trouble to purchase it and bring it to the U.S. Link to comment
Marty Hill Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 That being the case, I'm sure money spent is not really important. Go for it, the sky's the limit. Link to comment
The Rocketman Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 Correct. In this case, its not the money at all...its the principle. None of this makes logical sense, but owning a motorcycle (or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5) makes no logical sense either Link to comment
marcopolo Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 (edited) Interesting discussion. Even though I brought my 2006 RT with me when I moved to the U.S. in 2013, I can't help you, as I came here in a diplomatic posting, so the usual rules didn't apply. That said, I did call BMW NA after I got here, so they'd add my bike to their database. They did, and I got a letter from them saying that, at time of manufacture, my bike met all U.S. safety and emissions standards (including California). Interesting, given my bike had no charcoal canister. At the risk of stating the obvious, have you gone to the website for US Customs and Border control to see what they say about importing vehicles from Canada? Edited August 16, 2016 by marcopolo Link to comment
The Rocketman Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 I spoke directly to US customs and learned a lot. But all is good. Got all the paperwork I needed to clear customs for emissions, and just have to swap out speedos to conform to US DOT safety standards, and I can take her home. Will deal with this next week, as I'm leaving early tomorrow for a bike trip for 5 days to Vermont. Link to comment
MikeRC Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Nice looking moto! I think I understand why you wanted it. When we Canadians import a US bike we don't need to change speedometers as long as it has both MPH & KPH on the dial. The odometer can still be in miles. I have even heard of people just printing the scale with transparent labeling tape. We just need a recall clearance letter from the US importer/manufacturer and it has to be on the "approved" list kept by Transport Canada (I assume for emissions purposes). Mike Cassidy Link to comment
Skywagon Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Wow...never owned the cruiser but always thought they looked great...this bike is off the charts...great looking bike. I wish BMW would bring something like that back versus the 9T Link to comment
George S. Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Yeah, BMW really got it right with the cruiser. It STILL looks modern and sexy even after 20 years from when it was designed. How many bikes can you say that about? Wow 20 years? I hope the designer received some sort of industry award for that. Link to comment
John Ranalletta Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Many moons ago, I bought a '74 Ducati 750 GT a friend brought from South Africa in a crate. I got it licensed, etc but it was a hassle. Check with your local BMV before doing anything. Mine was very helpful providing a list of items I needed before they'd issue an Indiana title and registration. Link to comment
The Rocketman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 (edited) Everything seems to be moving along smoothly...finally. Here's the plan: I am waiting to receive a brand new non-ABS speedometer from Germany with MPH on it to swap out the non-ABS KPH one on the bike. That's all I need for US DOT Safety clearance and certification. It was ordered from Max BMW in New Hampshire yesterday. I removed the ABS one from my '04 Montauk the other night to see what tools I'd need, how to do it, how long it takes, etc. No emissions changes are necessary based on a letter I found from the California Air Resources Board dated July 9, 2004 that states that this 2005 BMW bike meets all US & Canadian EPA emissions standards as-is. http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/hmc/2005/bmw_m0060114_1170_1d0_hn.pdf As such, I won't have to change the CatCode plug, nor add a charcoal canister. Once I receive the speedometer (10-15 days out), I will be heading to Toronto to pay the owner for the bike. I will be meeting the registered ICI importer at the seller's house so he can pick it up, get it through customs at the border, and back to his warehouse in Hamburg (near Buffalo). I will follow him back, and install the new speedo at his place. Once he sees the speedometer function, he will release the bike to me. I need to coordinate this so I can do it all in 2 days, staying in a local hotel near Hamburg for just one night. I am also borrowing a bike trailer, and would prefer not to bring it into Canada. As such, I will be dropping it off at his warehouse on my way to Toronto, then pick it up and load the bike at his place when this is all done. This is a secure facility so I can be comfortable leaving my friend’s trailer in a secure/locked place for the one night. How’s that all sound? Larry Once I get it home, it takes 3 days to get all the EPA & DOT papers e-mailed to me from the importer so I can register it. After that, there's a document that will let me transfer the VIN# from BMW Canada to BMW US for future service/records, etc. Edited August 25, 2016 by The Rocketman Link to comment
LBump Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 All I can say is TENACITY...! Sounds like the bike of your dreams. Good luck with the transaction, Larry. Link to comment
The Rocketman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 I'm on a mission.... Thanks! Link to comment
realshelby Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Glad to see you go all the way with this. If anyone deserves this bike it is you. It is a really good looking, unique BMW. Link to comment
The Rocketman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 (edited) Thanks Terry. I think I deserve it too As one of the Moderators of Chromeheads.org (of which you are one of our respected members), I eat, drink and sleep cruisers. I think its fitting that I should own this bike. Like I said earlier, there's just so many Shelbys, '57 Chevys, Hemi 'Cudas and the like that we will never, ever see again. Its gotta be cool owning such a rare vehicle. I've owned a bunch of classic cars and have 4 bikes now, but this one has got me hooked. Plus, just the fact that many said this can't be done, is another reason to git 'er done...... Edited August 25, 2016 by The Rocketman Link to comment
TEWKS Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Plus, just the fact that many said this can't be done, is another reason to git 'er done...... A great motivator for sure! I fully understand your drive to have this very limited motorcycle. Pat Link to comment
The Rocketman Posted September 1, 2016 Author Share Posted September 1, 2016 The FedEx man just delivered this from Max BMW via the Fatherland, and included the requisite M&M's A road trip and speedo transplant is planned for next Thursday and Friday, 9/8-9/9 to bring this baby home. Wooo! Hooo! Link to comment
The Rocketman Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 Got 'er home yesterday!!!! Look for an Owner's News article somewhere down the road chronicling this adventure. Link to comment
Mike Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Got 'er home yesterday!!!! Look for an Owner's News article somewhere down the road chronicling this adventure. Congrats! I'm looking forward to your article, particularly the bits about navigating the legal requirements for importation. Happy riding! Link to comment
EddyQ Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Got 'er home yesterday!!!! Look for an Owner's News article somewhere down the road chronicling this adventure. Well done. You did the impossible! Link to comment
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