Difficulty shifting gears 2000 R1100RT

Hello all. Looking for a bit of advice regarding an issue with my 2000 BMW R1100RT. It currently has 58,400 miles and feels like it should go a lot farther but I'm having difficulty shifting gears, especially when at running temperature. I did find a trick to help change gears by giving a slight bit of throttle on the downshift and it seems to engage. But I do not feel confident taking it on the long trips I know it's capable of.

A bit of background: about 5,000 miles ago the input shaft went out on it and I had it repaired at a local motorcycle shop that exclusively services Bimmers. The mechanic replaced the input shaft, plus clutch plate and applicable seals. Not cheap either. It ran great until recently as I again noticed difficult shifting gears. I brought the bike back to the mechanic for his take on the issue. He suggested the engine and transmission do not align properly and that this is a BMW defect that affects perhaps one out of every ten R1100RT's. I was more than disappointed to hear this and decided to bring it to a BMW dealership for a second look. The dealer charged me $50 to say they needed to get into the gearbox to figure out the problem (a tear down to assess the problem would cost $2100) while acknowledging the issue of difficultly shifting gears. They also gave me an estimate of $5,570.00 for a new gearbox. They fell short of pointing out the specific problem but suggested as a possibility the gearbox was incorrectly shimmed when it was put together during the input shaft repair?

I'm at a loss as to the next steps. I've maintained the bike since purchasing it three years and 18,000 miles ago and it is mechanically sound (besides the gearshift problem). The mechanics advice was to simply part the bike out but I feel it's way premature for that as I've seen many R1100's easily surpass the 100,000 mile mark. Any thoughts on what the problem could be? I've read threads on this site that confirm the input shaft spline issue for oil heads. But is there a possibility BMW does have an engine/gearbox alignment defect that causes this problem, or is it the mechanics smoke and mirrors to deflect responsibility for a repair error? I'd like to figure this one out because the road keeps calling and I enjoy answering the call.

thanks for the help.

Neil

Neil,

I hear your pain my brother. Let's start with this: I am an ASE certified mechanic cum hobbyist, appraiser and cycle crash estmatics trainer who buys about 20 bikes a year on average. I buy to ride, spruce-up, repair and re-market for a modest profit. While I have owned a few beemers, I don't quite consider myself an expert though.

Early this spring, and at the encouragement of a riding buddy who loves his 2003 R1150R, I bought a gently used 2001 R1100RT with under 8K on the clock, immaculate condition and obviously well cared for with regular service receipts. The bike ran very well. At the time of purchase, I also had a 1992 Honda ST1100 with 34K on it.

After several back to back comparisons with the ST, and from riding many many bikes over the years, I can honestly say the transmission on this model is one clunky box of rocks, and doesn't shift nearly as well as my old ST1100. Not even close. I've had numerous missed shifts, grinding 2nd and 3rd up-shifts, "E" for error down shifts that sounded like the transmission is eating itself, etc. If the bike wasn't so fresh and didn't corner so well at 100 lbs less than my ST it would be gone already!

What I have learned about shifting this clunky old bastard:

1.) Redline Shockproof in the transmission helps, but doesn't quite solve the problems.

2.) Using a "double tap" process when up-shifting to 2nd and 3rd, whereby I tap the shifter up once lightly while in gear and a 2nd time when the clutch is pulled (just 1/4 the way in) to drive the gear change home will eliminate most all the crunch and grinds for me.

I like to think of it like I am waking the transmission up and saying "hey bitch, I'm going to shift you now, so pay the f*k attention to me."! This is only required on 2nd and 3rd up-shifts. Other people's comments about pre-loading the shift lever are kind of the same thing, but I have a very hard time exerting continuous upward pressure without prematurely knocking the transmission out of gear. The double tap process described above gives me the smoothest and most consistent gear changes where it has experienced the most problems-in 2nd and 3rd up-shifts.

3.) Down shifting this turd was also making me a paranoid wreck as I would occasionally (OK, maybe once a day) find myself between gears with something that sounded like a mix master between my legs. Ugh! Now I can down-shift fairly consistently without excessive noise, especially if I blip the throttle while executing the change into all but first gear. To shift old clunky into first I need to be at a stand still or barely rolling if I expect to avoid a pedestrian/passenger astonishing and rider infuriating ker-plunk,bang or garbage disposal grind.

I have read so much from others about the quirks of this transmission I just assume mine is normal now, and have learned to shift it quietly, albeit with lots of care and concentration. No more obsessing.

IMHO the transmission on this model takes away from an otherwise fine machine, and I will go as far as to say it is actually dangerous as it takes too much attention away from just riding the bike naturally. It is also very hard to accelerate cleanly and swiftly while executing quiet shifts; I have actually found short shifts around 3000RPM range much easier to affect quietly than those at 4-4500.

Beautiful machine, but horrid gearbox mating. Surgio? Ole' Clunky? LOL. Certainly more primitive than the Stratoliner I was riding right before this....but in some ways more fun too!

There are three possibilities:

1) There remains an alignment problem that comes from an initial manufacturing error.

2) The transmission bearings are not set up properly causing a radial clearance and loading of the input shaft when in a low gear. Gotta read up on this some more.

3) The engine's rear main bearing has been worn by the initial 40K miles of operation with a misaligned transmission. I have seen evidence of radial main bearing wear that can be demonstrated by lightly prying on the flywheel in different directions. But it didn't seem to manifest itself in further problems.

Although he claims to, how did your mechanic check for radial misalignment? It requires a small dial indicator mounted on the crankshaft/flywheel registering on the transmission input bearing housing bore. I don't see any other way to do this. I built a custom fixture to do this on a local bike and offered it to a couple of forum members as documented in previous posts etc, but I am unaware of anyone else rigorously checking the alignment any other way.

You have my sympathy. I have the same bike.

(You misspelled your name.)

Niel Petersen

Afternoon Neil

You might start with the easy things first.

Sometimes lubricating the shift linkage ball & socket joints plus lubricating the shift lever pivot bushing will greatly improve the ease of shifting (at least those should be eliminated before going into the trans)

The BMW 1100RT's are not noted for trans to engine misalignments like the later 1150RT's were. It's possible but they aren't known for that problem.

NRP mentioned the internal issue possibilities but there was also a run of 1100 5 speeds that had bad shift drums. Worn shift forks are also possible.

To have your bike repaired by a BMW dealer or even an independent BMW mechanic will be expensive & unless done by a very competent tec might not repair the problem for the long term.

Your trans has a past failure history (2 major failures on same trans) so if it were mine I would just install a good used trans & move on.

At the very least do a trans gear oil change then strain the removed gear oil though a coffee filter or paper towel. Maybe that will yield some metallic particles that might point to what's going wrong inside the trans.

Niel, Are you certain it isn't just the inherent nature of the R1100RT crunch box he is complaining of?

Neil, is this something new or newer you are experiencing?

I knew the 1150's had output shaft issues due to the short/small amount of clutch plate and output shaft spline contact area and the fact that too many old codgers like to ride in 6th when they should be in 4th or 5th, placing undue stress and wear on the end of the shaft, but do 1100's really have the same problem? Maybe it's time to get rid of old clunky.

All -

My R1100RT shifting seems normal. It had good alignment when I took it apart for spline lube at 20K miles. I hope I didn't screw it up (!).

Otherwise I've only personally seen one R1100 apart for splinestrip out. Never worked on an R1150. My little R90/6 ran out the trans input bearing which was possibly from 1st gear-induced sideloads. Input spline striped out too.

These posts have me thinking. DR, you're right on as usual.

Thanks to all for responding to this post. A lot of great feedback that I’m sorting through, all of it extremely helpful. A few comments:

Eburr: The ‘blip’ of the throttle has been helpful in downshifting gears. I will give the double tap a try from 2nd to 3rd as you suggested. It could take a bit of time to train myself to the appropriate shifting zone but it’s much more rewarding than a stationary motorcycle.

Dirtrider: The mechanic I returned to put a Moli additive into the tranny oil and also lubed the shift bushing as you mentioned. It worked great for about a 150 miles before the problem returned as the mechanic predicated it would. I’ll get to lubing the thing myself so as to be able to maintain the situation on my own.

Npr: I will ask the mechanic on whether he was able to check a radial misalignment as you suggested. Curious on that one. And thanks for pointing out the misspelling of my name (Neil not Niel) but I’ve no choice but to stick with my misspelled name for the duration.

Again, much appreciation to all you fellows for chiming in. I’ll look into these suggestions and report what comes out of it. Happy trails.

Neil

Neil - do you know what kind of grease the original mechanic used on the transmission splines that mate up to the clutch?

I sent you a detailed PM, but please try to answer this question in this thread.

I've owned many BMWs since 2000, and a couple of Hondas. There is a big difference. If you're used to a modern Honda the BMWs feel difficult to shift and clunky. - I say "modern" Honda because my 1977 Honda shifts like my BMWs!

I'm not saying there isn't something amiss with the OP's bike, but with BMW you have to be forceful. Riding boots help, don't wear soft shoes or sneakers. But the clunk is there forever and you learn to get used to it to where you almost forget about it.

A Honda shifts so easily it almost feels toy-like or even fragile compared to many BMWs.

I've owned many BMWs since 2000, and a couple of Hondas. There is a big difference. If you're used to a modern Honda the BMWs feel difficult to shift and clunky. - I say "modern" Honda because my 1977 Honda shifts like my BMWs!

 

I'm not saying there isn't something amiss with the OP's bike, but with BMW you have to be forceful. Riding boots help, don't wear soft shoes or sneakers. But the clunk is there forever and you learn to get used to it to where you almost forget about it.

 

A Honda shifts so easily it almost feels toy-like or even fragile compared to many BMWs.

I agree . Try some gearbox additive. I remember putting some Nulon in my R1100RT, the difference was amazing

Hello all. A few responses to the latest contributions on this topic:

Micharlr11: I believe the grease the original mechanic used on the transmission spline was a BMW product…as I recall. I will attempt to get into some basic wrenching and apply some additional grease to the shaft spline.

George S.: I’m quite forceful with shifting gears on the BMW and do wear the appropriate footwear. I understand that the BMW gearbox is a bit more difficult and clunky than other brands but what has changed is the amount of required force from what was somewhat clunky to downright awkward and unable to downshift unless I give it the old ‘blip’ of the throttle.

Ozzyal: I will give the gearbox additive a go. Nulon seems like a remarkable product from a cursory review.

I rode the R1100RT to work today (approximately 22 miles round trip) and was happy to have made the trip. It shifted, but had to get used to applying the throttle ‘blip.’ The result is I’m able to continue riding the R1100RT with some manual rider adjustments for shifting. I’ll keep researching and attempt the great solutions offered on this thread to make it a smoother ride. Thanks again to all for the helpful words of advice.

Neil

Neil,

Don't lose hope on your bike. With the sky high quotes you've received from BMW, I'm sure there are feelings of discouragement. But I assure you there are other options.

I would not consider parting out the bike at this point. That's an involved process and without lots of work, hard to make money on it. Plus, it's way too early to write off the whole bike. It sounds like you've cared for it and it's a good bike otherwise, and it just needs this shifting issue resolved. Once you get this issue worked out, you should be set for many miles.

*IF* your transmission needs work or replacement and IF your prior mechanic won't warranty his original repair work, +1 on DR's suggestion of installing a good used transmission. This can be accomplished by yourself, or for less than $1500 in a shop, including the cost of the transmission. Perhaps you can get your prior mechanic to install it for you at a discount. That would seem fair to me considering he may be partly responsible.

I had to replace the transmission in my '95 R1100RS and I decided to do it myself since I had just paid to have the clutch replaced the summer before ($1800). The folks on this site were very helpful, as was Chris Harris' 2.5 hour YouTube video outlining the steps.

It might be worth verifying that squeezing the clutch lever is fully disengaging power to the transmission. You might get a little wheel rotation on the center stand, engine running, in gear, but it should be easily stopped with your boot.

Interestingly, my R1100RT shifts much better and quieter if I only use 1/4 to 1/2 of the clutch lever travel. When I pull it all the way in I almost always get a noisier shift. Ah, these curious and somewhat quirky machines!

A couple things:

I would hope they changed the entire clutch including the clutch housing / flywheel. Oilheads have been known to eat splines due to runout in the clutch housing. This can be an issue from the factory or it can be caused by someone being a bit ham fisted during the disassembly process. Regardless, I wouldn't replace an input shaft without replacing the complete clutch with the housing / flywheel as well.

Does this shop not offer a warranty on their work? If you trust that he knows what he is doing, I'd have him figure out what he messed up. The 1 in 10 number is a wrench blowing a smokescreen. Unless he has measured for total runout of the crank and crank w/ clutch housing, plus coaxiality of the crank to the gearbox input bearing bore on a large sample size, he knows not of which he speaks. If he had the ability to do that, he would have when the bike was apart and figured out the root cause of your initial spline failure. I don't know of anyone who has taken the time to do a study of spline failures to be able to spout off stats. There have been some documented cases of misalignment, but there are many more cases of spline failure not reoccurring after the complete clutch assembly was replaced along with the input shaft. Based on that, chances are pretty good that a machining error on the castings isn't the cause. If it wasn't done previously, I'd pay for the rest of the clutch parts to replace the entire assembly when the next mechanic is in there. In my book, if it turns out to be mis-assembly, a bad shim job, or bad advice, the repair, or at the very least, the labor portion, should be on the mechanic's dime.

I realize the dealer didn't cause the issue, but $2100 to disassemble and diagnose is ridiculous. Even if they need to disassemble the gearbox, which I doubt they really know yet, that is a steep price. Sounds to me like they really don't want to touch it. For $50, I'm sure they didn't even pull the starter off.

Before you panic, make sure the bushings for the shift lever are in good condition and not binding. Then make sure the joints in the shift linkage are properly assembled and lubed. Finally, make sure the shift arm was properly installed on the splined selector shaft. Any issues in the linkage can cause real shifting problems, especially on an RT where you are working through that little window.

If you decide to do anything on your own or through a different dealer, I'd save all drained fluids and take photos in case it turns out to be an error on the mechanic's part.

Good luck!