Malfunctioning turn signals

I am in the middle of a week-long motorcycle trip, and I have started to experience an annoying behavior/malfunction with my turn signal(s).

On day one, I went through a pretty heavy rain storm, but came through it with no problems, or so I thought.

On day two, I noticed that my right turn signal would turn on by itself. I could cancel it, but it would turn on again a bit later. After a while I could not cancel it unless i pushed the right signal button a bunch of times, and then hit cancel. (in my mind, sort of “cleaning” the pushbutton switch contact?) Eventually it reached the point where I could not cancel it at all (it would stop while the cancel button was pressed, but would immediately resume when I let go). In order to avoid confusing the traffic around me in case I didn’t notice that it had started by itself, I removed the right side turn signal bulbs and resorted to hand signals for right turns and lane changes.

On day three and several hundred miles later, I was surprised to see that the same behavior had started on the left side. As on the right side the turn signal would activate by itself. Same cancel (or not) behavior, Again, in order to avoid confusing traffic around me, I removed the left side bulbs.

It's day four, and I am now using hand signals for all turns and lane changes. (funny how quickly you get used to it)

Even though the front and rear turn signal bulbs are removed, I can still observe when the malfunction occurs, because the dash indicators still flash when either (or both!) turn signal is “on”. It is much more infrequent on the left side, but happened many times today on the right side.

Did the rain really cause two identical switch malfunctions? Are the switches really bad, or is maybe whatever the switches “talk to” the real culprit?

Any other thoughts on cause or remedy?

Thanks.

Kerry

Morning Kerry

That is a strange one.

There aren't many choices on what could go wrong as your turn signals are computer controlled by the ZFE. (if water got into your sealed ZFE computer then you would sure think that more things would be acting up than JUST the turn signals)

It sounds (from afar here) like you have handlebar switch issues with water intrusion. Your 2006 1200RT isn't noted for handlebar switch issues & I have seen those switch's just flooded with water during motorcycle washing without issue.

Not sure what to tell you about on-the-road repair.-- I guess if it were me I would try riding it for a while longer in the hot sun to see if the switches eventually dry out. OR, possibly try squirting some water displacement into the switch areas (like WD-40).

Or maybe try WD-40 then blowing the switch pods out with a can of computer keyboard cleaning compressed air.

Please post a follow up & let us know how this phantom turn signal operation gets resolved.

Welcome to day five.

Thanks for the feedback DR, your comments pretty much match my thinking. No other malfunctions of any kind, so it’s gotta be the switch(es), right?

And I have been in many rain storms, and washed the bike many times with no problems.

I didn’t mention this earlier, but when the problem first started, I took a few minutes at a gas stop to remove some screws and open up the right side switch cluster. I squirted clean water in there and blew (huff puff) it out as much as I could, then reassembled it to see if it improved. The thinking being, if there was some contamination that got in there (oily water from road spray during the rain storm?), it might get rinsed out, then the clean water would eventually evaporate later in the day, or maybe the next day. But alas, no improvement.

Since days two and three were spent in SW Colorado and all across southern Utah, I have seen morning temps in the low 50’s and daytime temps in the 90’s. Like you, I was wondering if higher temps, or even temperature swings, would have an effect. About all I can say is, the problem consistently shows up every morning, then seems to get better later in the day. But it does still happen. I am now in central Wyoming, heading east. I expect to see more of the same temps for the next two days.

In the meantime, I may have partially confirmed that the switches are really the problem (as if we didn’t know).

After some Googling, I learned that the turn signal switches are momentary contact, SPST, *normally closed* switches. Seems odd, but I’m sure someone had a good reason using normally closed rather than normally open switches. That would imply that the switch(es) are not successfully closing after having been momentarily pressed (opened). It occurs to me that when one presses and releases the button, the switch can only return to the closed position as fast as one releases pressure with the thumb, which is probably not all that fast. So I instead tried pressing the switch button, then sliding my thumb off and letting the switch “snap” back from spring pressure. I found that every time I did this, I was then able to successfully cancel the signal. Apparently the faster return was causing the switch to successfully close.

Two caveats: It is entirely possible that during these experiments I was able to cancel the signal for some other random reason. Also, the signal still turns on by itself after a while. But this seems to add evidence of the switch itself being the culprit (which is not surprising).

I have not seen the left side malfunction except on day three, but I suspect it is right on the edge and ready to misbehave again.

So what are the odds of two switches failing in the same way within such a short period of time? Well the odds are not zero, and I am just going to assume I hit the bad luck lottery.

I may try the WD40 and compressed air treatment when I get home this weekend. I don’t want to try it on the road where I may (no, I will) make a mess, etc.

There is no night riding planned, and I’m getting by fine with hand signals, so this isn’t really a critical problem.

I’ll report back if I learn anything more.

Thanks.

Kerry

Interesting indeed, that they are normally closed.

How many miles on your '06? Right around 96K miles my 06 shorted some wires against the steering assembly. This was a PAIN IN THE A** to find as it only happened intermittently sometimes when I turned the wheel and sometimes not.

I wonder if yours is stretching the wires to make them disconnect. I've heard the 05 and 06 wiring harness were zipped tied a little too tight. But what do I know?!?!

Good luck!

 

After some Googling, I learned that the turn signal switches are momentary contact, SPST, *normally closed* switches. Seems odd, but I’m sure someone had a good reason using normally closed rather than normally open switches. That would imply that the switch(es) are not successfully closing after having been momentarily pressed (opened). It occurs to me that when one presses and releases the button, the switch can only return to the closed position as fast as one releases pressure with the thumb, which is probably not all that fast. So I instead tried pressing the switch button, then sliding my thumb off and letting the switch “snap” back from spring pressure. I found that every time I did this, I was then able to successfully cancel the signal. Apparently the faster return was causing the switch to successfully close.

Afternoon Kerry

That normally closed on the turn signal switch's is not what my BMW wire schematics show, my official BMW wiring diagrams show N/O or normally open. (I can't say that I can remember ever measuring them though). Easy enough to check as unplugging a couple of the switches at the same time would drive the system crazy.

The I-ABS brake switches are N/C or normally closed & go open on lever or pedal apply so maybe that is maybe where the N/C thing is coming from.

Hi Nick -

I just got home and the bike now has 67550 miles on it.

I am pretty sure it's not a wire chafing or shorting issue, as wire bundle movement (e.g. handlebar movement), or lack thereof, does not make it better or worse.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Afternoon Kerry

 

That normally closed on the turn signal switch's is not what my BMW wire schematics show, my official BMW wiring diagrams show N/O or normally open. (I can't say that I can remember ever measuring them though). Easy enough to check as unplugging a couple of the switches at the same time would drive the system crazy.

 

The I-ABS brake switches are N/C or normally closed & go open on lever or pedal apply so maybe that is maybe where the N/C thing is coming from.

Yep, I agree, the switches are most likely normally open.

I am decompressing a bit after riding the last leg home today, and will probably dig into this a bit more over the weekend.

I would look for overly tight tie-wraps on the wiring going up to the bars. BMW apparently has an automated tie-wrapping machine that loves to pull them WAY too tight. Eventually that causes the insulation to wear down inside the sleeve/shrink-wrap/tape the wires are in, and trouble ensues.

Trick is finding where.. but examine ALL the tie-wraps. Any that seem tighter than just barely snug - remove, then try wiggling the wiring in that point to see if anything odd happens, or if it's taped wiring, take some tape off and look.

I've gone through about 4 BMWs I've owned and ended up replacing almost every tie-wrap on the bike. They are just there to hold the wires in position - they are not a structural element in the bike. Someone should explain that to whoever calibrates BMWs tie-wrapping machine.

This wouldn't be the first time I've heard of this sort of problem caused by the too tight tie-wraps (intermittent ignition is another one I've heard of caused by it.)

BTW - if you think the switches have water in them - WD40. WD = Water Displacement, and that's pretty much what it was actually made for.

 

I just got home and the bike now has 67550 miles on it.

I am pretty sure it's not a wire chafing or shorting issue, as wire bundle movement (e.g. handlebar movement), or lack thereof, does not make it better or worse.

 

Morning Kerry

Yes, your problem showing up after riding in heavy rain & being worse & in the morning than after riding it the sun all day plus showing up on both sides randomly doesn't point towards wire chafing or tight zip ties.

It seems to point much more towards a switch (water intrusion) issue.

The basic problem is those switches are going to be difficult too get the moisture out of (probably why they didn't totally clear up while riding in the hot sun).

Just something to think about-- years & years ago I had a somewhat expensive electronic watch (they were just coming on the market then)-- the thing was water resistant but obviously not water proof to any depth. One day I dove off my boat but forgot to take the watch off. The thing fogged up inside & quit working. I tried everything to get the moisture out from compressed air to opening the cover & leaving it out in the hot sun (nothing worked).

One day I was repairing a automobile air conditioning compressor & after repair I hooked my evacuation pump up to evacuate the air & moisture out of the A/C system before recharge. That got me thinking that if it (the vacuum) would boil the moisture out of an A/C system it might do the same for my watch.

I used an old glass quart jar that I drilled the cover to accept a fitting that would connect to my vacuum pump then put the watch (with back cover removed) into that jar & hooked up the vacuum pump. Next morning I removed the watch & it was ticking away all by itself.

So if you can't get the moisture out with (W)ater (D)isplacing WD-40 & compressed air plus hot sun light then maybe you can get the switch pods & pigtail wiring into a sealed container & boil the water out using a vacuum pump.

BTW-- the moisture probably got in as you used (exercised) the switches in the wet weather so you might need to keep exercising the switches as you spray on/in the WD-40 & compressed air. (kind of a pumping action)

So if you can't get the moisture out with (W)ater (D)isplacing WD-40 & compressed air plus hot sun light then maybe you can get the switch pods & pigtail wiring into a sealed container & boil the water out using a vacuum pump.

Hey D.R. -

The vacuum pump is pretty a creative idea, but I'm going with the first part (a.k.a. do almost nothing).

I opened the right switch cluster up and doused the turn signal switch in WD-40 to perhaps displace any remaining moisture, blew it out, and reassembled it. (I did nothing with the left cluster/switch at this time as I have not seen that side malfunction since five days ago).

Some final thoughts...

On the last leg of my trip on Friday, the "signal self-start" problem occurred only first thing in the AM, and not again for the rest of the day. I went out to the garage today (Saturday), and turned on the bike, and it did not happen at all. I waited a long time with power on, then started and stopped the engine a bunch of times in case that mattered, and it did not happen. I was able to initiate and cancel the signal several dozen times with no problem. I feel the problem has either resolved itself, or is now so rare that it would be hard to tell if any other action I took actually made any difference. I am hoping that any moisture in the switch has slowly evaporated out over several days to the point where it has little or no effect.

Bulbs are back in (how LUXURIOUS to have illuminated signals again!), and time will tell if this is really over or maybe just waiting for the next heavy rain or high humidity day!

Thanks all for the input.

Two week update.

Well, the problem did not really go away; I thought it did at first, but the signal still occasionally starts on its own. Apparently there is some contamination in the switch other than water or some other simple liquid, which one would think would be displaced by WD-40 and/or eventually evaporate.

I hope this doesn't happen to anyone else, because it is pretty frustrating.

The turn signal switch in the cluster is not designed to be individually replaced or repaired, but I was lucky enough to find a replacement cluster on eBay for a reasonable price, and will be installing it this weekend.

If you can't fix it, throw money at it. :-)

The turn signal switch in the cluster can be replaced. I replaced mine in my 05 RT on the left side when it would not come on after it started an intermittent failure. I tried using contact cleaner and blowing it out with compressed air (worked for a couple of times). If you are handy with a soldering iron, it can be done, saving you about $415 for a new cluster. This is the video I used -

I am aware the switch can be replaced, and I would probably have gone that direction if the only option was a $400+ part investment. I found a new right side switch cluster on eBay for $145 - easily worth it to me.

This is interesting. I have the other half of your problem on my '05 RT, making a matched pair.

After sitting in a couple of days of rain my LEFT turn signals will not come on. The hazards work, and all bulbs light. The right signal works and the cancel button works as well. The right side keeps flashing if I push the left signal button. Everything points to the switch being the culprit.

I'm in Virginia right now so I don't expect anything's going to dry out anytime soon.

I am aware the switch can be replaced, and I would probably have gone that direction if the only option was a $400+ part investment. I found a new right side switch cluster on eBay for $145 - easily worth it to me.

The replacement switch is $5.00.

I am aware the switch can be replaced, and I would probably have gone that direction if the only option was a $400+ part investment. I found a new right side switch cluster on eBay for $145 - easily worth it to me.

The replacement switch is $5.00.

But I saved $200+ on a new cluster - I couldn't afford NOT to buy it. :-)

I am aware the switch can be replaced, and I would probably have gone that direction if the only option was a $400+ part investment. I found a new right side switch cluster on eBay for $145 - easily worth it to me.

The replacement switch is $5.00.

Where?

I am aware the switch can be replaced, and I would probably have gone that direction if the only option was a $400+ part investment. I found a new right side switch cluster on eBay for $145 - easily worth it to me.

The replacement switch is $5.00.

 

Where?

Afternoon Don

Digikey