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New member on the hunt for an R1200RT


SD1

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Hi all. Long time rider and previous BMW owner. Looking to get back on a sport touring bike. Cant find anyone to say anything bad about the R1200RT. I would probably be most inclined to buy a slightly used low mile bike, but wont rule out plucking one off the showroom. Love to hear some opinions on model years, features, and general do and donts of the RT. I had an K1200RS many years ago and have ridden lots of others between, Ducati ST, FJR, lots of Harleys. I am in Sandy Eggo if the username wasnt a dead giveaway. Would like to connect with the local group as well. See you guys up in Santa Ysabel. TIA -Doug

Edited by SD1
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Hi New Guy!

Can't help much with the new bike stuff but I'm sure more than a few will soon be bringing great advice. There are also a bunch of folks in your neck of the woods so meeting new friends shouldn't be a problem. I think you came to the right place!

Which Ducati ST did you have?

Edited by T.M. Roe
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Hi SD1,

Welcome back.

The RT model years fall into some convenient categories. Each with their on idiosyncratic features.

 

Airheads- cylinders hang out into the breeze. Classic BMW's. A good airhead is good to find, but good ones are getting rare. Obviously not in the same performance categories as newer models but many are still going strong.

 

Oilheads- have oil cooling systems. They go from about the late 1990's to '04's. Great bikes too, especially if you like and can do your own work. Reliable, fun but getting long in the tooth.

 

Hexheads- have oil cooling and updated styling and features. '05 to '10. Easy to work on and sill relatively modern. Affordable and easy to work on. I like 'em.

 

Camheads-still oil cooled, updated valve operations, they use shims to make valve adjustments. Can be self-serviced also. Many comping available at good prices as owners migrate to the next generations.

 

Wetheads- the current models... '14's and now '16/17's. Water-based coolant, water pumps etc. Newest models, many spiffy features. When fully loaded they have full audio and gps systems. Slightly lower saddles and other convenience/comfort features. Valves are different and apparently still use shims but less maintenance required.

 

Used wet heads seem to be harder to find. Maybe in a large market such as "Cafilornia" they are more abundant.

 

The '16s are getting ready to yield centerstage to the '17's. No clear word yet... to my knowledge, of a new cycle starting so the '17's may continue the recent path but the Mothership tends to refresh and redesign every few years... no signal I am aware of the next generation... yet, but it is inevitable.

 

As you can imagine the newer they are the more they cost.

 

What are you looking for in a bike- what do you want to do? Cross-country riding, or speedy part-day trips? etc. Good to think about how you will ride and what you like to do regarding self-maintenance.

 

 

 

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With the current incentives (plus BMWCCA rebate if you're a member) a new 16 is a great buy IMO. Several dealers are holding a fair good of inventory and are dealing. The Wethead is pretty far above even the Camhead with all the wizardry and a 3 year warranty is a good plus.

 

There's a nice Ebony 15 in the classifieds if you're looking to save a little.

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Thanks for the replies.

 

#1. The Duc was an 04 ST3. I bought it with a bad head and pulled it apart and put a new/used head on it and also rebuilt the fuel pump then rode it for about a year. Wonderful bike. I was never inclined to take it far as I never really trusted it mechanically, that was a new experience for me.

 

I predominantly will do half and 3/4 day rides of 150-250 miles but I have aspirations of doing some multi day and multi thousand mile road trips. I am hoping to do a cycle tour in Spain and Italy but of course will rent or buy something over there when that happens. In the meantime, looking to build up some endurance.

 

I am looking for a good blend of comfort and technology but with a substantial sporting character. Iwant something I can confidently ride in inclement weather. I have not yet ridden an R1200RT but cannot imagine not loving it. Most of the bikes I have ridden in the past ten years were older, mostly 7-8-9-10 year old bikes when I bought them. So looking to make a significant jump.

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I think the wet heads are a significant step up from the earlier ones. Comparing my 2015 R1200R with my last one, a 1999 R1100RT: The 2015 is lighter (even the RT is lighter than the earlier ones, but I saved a bit more weight going without the fairing). The 1999 tended to pull to one side a bit. Not really noticeable except when you took your hands off the bars. The 2015 runs absolutely dead straight. I have ridden no-hands on it for tens of seconds at a time. Of course this is made possible buy the cruise control which is a great addition. Also the 1999 had mild surging at some moderate speeds in town. The 2015 seems smooth at all speeds. The 2015 has significantly more power than the 1999. You have to be really careful with your right hand if you want to keep the front wheel on the ground. :) The water cooling on the wetheads is great. With my 1999 I had to pull over and let it cool off once riding in stop and go traffic on the Strip in Las Vegas on a hot day. With the 2015 and its water cooling, I crossed the desert in California and Arizona on a 46 C (115 F) day with no issues.

 

The only potential downside I see is there are a few of whizbang features that could cause problems if they went bad. For example, the keyless ignition is great as long as the fob works. The Nav V GPS system seemed to have problems locking on to satellites when the weather is cold. Once it warms up it seems fine. And it is intermittent so it might be hard to get a warranty claim on. So far (8000 km) I have had no other issues.

Edited by Green RT
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Thanks for the link but I am looking to buy a near new bike with the intention of keeping it for the better part of a decade. : )

 

I agree with Green RT, sometimes the gizmos are more trouble than they are worth. I have had plenty of headaches with BMW's over the years with tech issues. I bought a new 745Li that had iDrive, what a horrible experience that was. I think that was the last new BMW I bought lol. Most of the Harleys I have had used fobs. They work great, but if you are unfamiliar with them, something as small as a battery can "strand" you. I know BMW had pretty serious issues with ABS but again that was many years ago. I have read the ESA was recalled or problematic on the R1200RT when the new bike was first released if I am correct. I would like to be aware of those types of issues if there are others. I understand that it is a complicated machine and is exposed to a very wide range of use and environments around the world and things will definitely break and wear out. I am fine with that, but like to be educated about the issues if possible

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Hey, SD: You mentioned wanting to get back on a sport touring bike but haven't yet ridden a R1200RT. Let me tell you my tale. I had an '02 RT that I felt was getting a little long in the tooth and concerned me about reliability. I drank the Kool-Aid and bought a '15 Kawi Concours thinking it would be my dream bike: reliable, sporty, great handling, etc. I was wrong. I spent HUNDREDS of dollars trying to make it comfortable and enjoyable. It is (I still am trying to sell it) HEAVY, tall, top-heavy, forces me into the handlebars, gives me a headache and corners like a freight train. A couple of months ago I test rode a '13 RT and the only thought that kept going through my head was "why the hell did I EVER sell the RT?" On September 30 of this year I purchased a brand new RT in platinum bronze metallic and am the happiest son-of-a-gun you'll ever meet. I looked at used ones and compared the price to value and honestly, it seemed to me that buying a new one provided just as much value as a used one. For example, a bike one or two or even three years old was just a few thousand less than a brand new one with a full 3-year warranty. I knew I wanted to keep the bike for some time so for me the best value was to get the new one. I hope this helps you figure out what you want to do. The bikes are damned expensive but sometimes that is simply the price you must pay and in this case my opinion is it is worth every penny. Take care.

Edited by Daddoz777
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I appreciate hearing that from you. I was on an FJR1300 last year, and while it is a pretty old bike at this point, I really enjoyed it and I could land one pretty inexpensively and that thought is in the back of my head. Its the only issue I have. They list at 23K, not sure what kind of deal you came across, pm me if you are inclined, but that is a pretty sizable nut for what is mostly a toy for me. Hell my wife is telling me to get it done but I am still sitting on my hands.

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Hey, SD: You mentioned wanting to get back on a sport touring bike but haven't yet ridden a R1200RT. Let me tell you my tale. I had an '02 RT that I felt was getting a little long in the tooth and concerned me about reliability. I drank the Kool-Aid and bought a '15 Kawi Concours thinking it would be my dream bike: reliable, sporty, great handling, etc. I was wrong. I spent HUNDREDS of dollars trying to make it comfortable and enjoyable. It is (I still am trying to sell it) HEAVY, tall, top-heavy, forces me into the handlebars, gives me a headache and corners like a freight train. A couple of months ago I test rode a '13 RT and the only thought that kept going through my head was "why the hell did I EVER sell the RT?" On September 30 of this year I purchased a brand new RT in platinum bronze metallic and am the happiest son-of-a-gun you'll ever meet. I looked at used ones and compared the price to value and honestly, it seemed to me that buying a new one provided just as much value as a used one. For example, a bike one or two or even three years old was just a few thousand less than a brand new one with a full 3-year warranty. I knew I wanted to keep the bike for some time so for me the best value was to get the new one. I hope this helps you figure out what you want to do. The bikes are damned expensive but sometimes that is simply the price you must pay and in this case my opinion is it is worth every penny. Take care.

 

Well said !! Agree with all.

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Thanks for the link but I am looking to buy a near new bike with the intention of keeping it for the better part of a decade. : )

 

I agree with Green RT, sometimes the gizmos are more trouble than they are worth. I have had plenty of headaches with BMW's over the years with tech issues. I bought a new 745Li that had iDrive, what a horrible experience that was. I think that was the last new BMW I bought lol. Most of the Harleys I have had used fobs. They work great, but if you are unfamiliar with them, something as small as a battery can "strand" you. I know BMW had pretty serious issues with ABS but again that was many years ago. I have read the ESA was recalled or problematic on the R1200RT when the new bike was first released if I am correct. I would like to be aware of those types of issues if there are others. I understand that it is a complicated machine and is exposed to a very wide range of use and environments around the world and things will definitely break and wear out. I am fine with that, but like to be educated about the issues if possible

 

Just my own experience ... bought my first BMW in 2000. It was a 1997 R1100RT with 6200 miles on it and was mint. Moved to a new R1150 GS in 2002 that i had for 10 years and 40K with NO issues. At the same time in 2008 I bought my '06 RT that I am now selling to move up to a 2016 RT. The '02 GS has morphed to a '12 GSA and never an issue. Have not heard of any ABS issues . There was a fuel pump recall and an issue with he fuel strip on the '06 both covered by BMW. Never stranded and never an issue. Just maintain them and you will be fine for a long time. AND for me the big issue is the kind of service you get at a BMW dealer versus the multi brand metric dealers. Also, if you buy new you can get a 5 year extended service contract (like a warranty) through RPM One for about $1000. That gives you 8 years or worry free riding! Not sure you can beat that and there are some killer deals on '16's right now. Just my $.02 and YMMV !!

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This is a good example of one of my observations above: The seller is asking $18,500 for a bike with 7,000 miles and unknown amount of warranty left. I paid $18,990* for mine new with a full warranty. Granted, the bike for sale does have some significant accessories that give it more value, but my point is to me the values between the used and new bikes can be pretty comparable. Note it isn't my intention to disparage the seller in any way. In fact this particular example looks like a pretty good value.

 

*MSRP on my bike was $22,665. This was a 'demo' bike with 600 miles on it, which included the 600 mile service.

Edited by Daddoz777
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This is a good example of one of my observations above: The seller is asking $18,500 for a bike with 7,000 miles and unknown amount of warranty left. I paid $18,990* for mine new with a full warranty. Granted, the bike for sale does have some significant accessories that give it more value, but my point is to me the values between the used and new bikes are pretty comparable so in that case (and in so many cases like it) I lean towards the new one. Note it isn't my intention to disparage the seller in any way; I'm just making personal observations.

 

*MSRP on my bike was $22,665. This was a 'demo' bike with 600 miles on it, which included the 600 mile service.

 

Exactly! Got the same deal on a 2016 with nearly EVERY option except the 2 I did not want ...keyless and central locking. All others included. In addition added 5 years extension on the warranty. Odd but it does seem that NEW can at times be a better deal. Not necessarily cheaper but a better deal all things considered.

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I agree with you guys. Here is my dilemna. I routinely shell out 5-6-7k for used bikes and I have to admit, I get some really nice bikes, low mileage, serviced and tagged and often ride them for 5-6 months over the summer months turning around and selling them for what I paid and sometimes even making a couple of bucks. I am willing to pay cash up to 10-12k, and there are lots of bikes to choose from, I saw a nice FJR today, but that WILL NOT buy a 14+ R1200RT. I would happily finance a new BMW at .9 for a couple of years, but not for 23k, even with a deep discount I would still be at 23 with plate and taxes. I guess in the scheme of things, I am hard pressed to buy what I feel is the most expensive bike on the market regardless of what segment I am looking. Sorry for the rant. Surely you have been in my shoes.

 

 

I think if I was a little more confident that I would be happy with this bike for 5-6 years or longer that would make a difference. I just have commitment issues. ; )

Edited by SD1
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I agree with you guys. Here is my dilemna. I routinely shell out 5-6-7k for used bikes and I have to admit, I get some really nice bikes, low mileage, serviced and tagged and often ride them for 5-6 months over the summer months turning around and selling them for what I paid and sometimes even making a couple of bucks. I am willing to pay cash up to 10-12k, and there are lots of bikes to choose from, I saw a nice FJR today, but that WILL NOT buy a 14+ R1200RT. I would happily finance a new BMW at .9 for a couple of years, but not for 23k, even with a deep discount I would still be at 23 with plate and taxes. I guess in the scheme of things, I am hard pressed to buy what I feel is the most expensive bike on the market regardless of what segment I am looking. Sorry for the rant. Surely you have been in my shoes.

 

 

I think if I was a little more confident that I would be happy with this bike for 5-6 years or longer that would make a difference. I just have commitment issues. ; )

 

I am exactly right there with you.... I have gone through a few bikes that need a few things to be fixed up. I fix them, ride them for a few months and sell them. The taxes and plating of a new bike (or car) seems crazy high. Sometimes I wish my RT was new or newer...

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I agree with you guys. Here is my dilemna. I routinely shell out 5-6-7k for used bikes and I have to admit, I get some really nice bikes, low mileage, serviced and tagged and often ride them for 5-6 months over the summer months turning around and selling them for what I paid and sometimes even making a couple of bucks. I am willing to pay cash up to 10-12k, and there are lots of bikes to choose from, I saw a nice FJR today, but that WILL NOT buy a 14+ R1200RT. I would happily finance a new BMW at .9 for a couple of years, but not for 23k, even with a deep discount I would still be at 23 with plate and taxes. I guess in the scheme of things, I am hard pressed to buy what I feel is the most expensive bike on the market regardless of what segment I am looking. Sorry for the rant. Surely you have been in my shoes.

 

 

I think if I was a little more confident that I would be happy with this bike for 5-6 years or longer that would make a difference. I just have commitment issues. ; )

 

Sure I've been there but I think for me perhaps the difference is I tend to view my motorcycle purchases for long term ownership, not just a few months. I was going to write something about how you should just bite the bullet then realized what an insensitive narcissistic jerk I was being. While nothing rides like a BMW, they are expensive and we don't always get what we want. Good luck in your search.

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Another thing to consider besides the high entry price of a new R1200RT is the cost of maintenance especially at a BMW dealer. Long and short with BMW is if you want to play you're gonna pay. Just how it is. Then there is the reliability issues that have plagued BMW in years past. Maybe things have improved in very recent years, maybe. In July I sold my '04 R1150RT and bought a pristine 2010 FJR with 1200 miles on the clock and I just love the thing. About the only thing I miss with the FJR is the telelever front suspension on the oilhead. I believe BMW has discontinued the telelever which is too bad, imo. I read somewhere that telelever was too expensive to produce thus cutting into profits too much. If I was thinking about another BMW I would look hard at an R1200R rather than the RT.

 

I think I like my generation2 FJR more than I would one of the new gen3 bikes although the new 2016 FJR uses OBD2 for diagnostics which is really cool because you can spend $100 for a simple adaptor cable and a blue tooth OBD2 communications device and the bike will output diagnostic data directly to your laptop or Android compatible smartphone. How cool is that? You can get a real time data dump to your smartphone while you ride. No need to spend $300 for a GS911. However, there are a couple other gen3 things I don't like. The tupperware comes to mind and no idle adjust screw. You think oilhead RT tupperware is bad? You will come to love it!

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Howdy, neighbor!

 

I've got no input on the R1200RT, but I thought I ought to welcome you to the board as another San Diego area rider!

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I stand corrected. The 2016 R1200RT has telelever front suspension. Can't remember who told me BMW had dropped the telelever. I'm glad to see they've kept it. I don't really pay much attention to the newer beemers myself as I'll likely never own one.

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I stand corrected. The 2016 R1200RT has telelever front suspension. Can't remember who told me BMW had dropped the telelever. I'm glad to see they've kept it. I don't really pay much attention to the newer beemers myself as I'll likely never own one.

They had dropped it for some of the models that uses the same boxer power plant. The RNINET is an example.

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I was at a BMW dealer yesterday to pick up a new right side handlebar assembly for my '93RS and while there I looked briefly at a new RS and an RT. I saw a telelever on the RT but didn't bother to check the RS. I'm completely turned off by the styling of the new BMW's. They all look like something Darth Vader would ride and talk about expensive to buy and maintain, no thanks. Bad enough the part for my 23 year old bike cost $465. :mad: From the sound of it you would think BMW invented the wet clutch. The parts guy said that he ordered the same assembly for a customer a couple weeks ago and the guy was just as unhappy about the cost as I was and made pretty much the same comments. We both had a laugh over that. :D

 

They also had a new K1600 on display. This overweight beast is at least a step up from that K1200 abomination on two wheels that it takes a crane to lift off the fuel tank.

Edited by JamesW
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I stand corrected. The 2016 R1200RT has telelever front suspension. Can't remember who told me BMW had dropped the telelever. I'm glad to see they've kept it. I don't really pay much attention to the newer beemers myself as I'll likely never own one.

 

They had dropped it for some of the models that uses the same boxer power plant. The RNINET is an example.

 

Not to be too picky but the RNineT camhead isn't the same boxer power plant as the wethead RT/RS/GS. They're all boxers but not the same. Only the GS and RT have the telelever.

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My K 12 GT ('03) is hardly an abomination.

 

Still one of, if not the best looking mc's ever.

And the gas tank is easily removed.

Neither was my '96 RSL. Another beautiful classic.

But you know that.

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"This overweight beast is at least a step up from that K1200 abomination on two wheels that it takes a crane to lift off the fuel tank."

 

I am pretty sure JamesW was referring to the LT.

 

The change in styling came with the introduction of the 2005 RT. With that model, BMW started to follow the angular school of design that was first seen in the motorcycling world on the then radical, 1981 Suzuki Katana. Eventually, the whole lineup morphed into that style with the next gen of the K series and even the minimal bodywork on the GS reflects this design.

 

Speaking for myself only, I never liked that style. Along with that style came a massive increase in complexity (canbus) and cost (20% over the 2004 model) that I never liked either. That's just me folks, obviously the current style agrees with many. Plus, if everyone agreed with me, there would be no BMW motorcycle brand left and I wouldn't be able to get parts for my 2003 K1200RS and that would be a tradgedy.

 

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