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R1200 EV16 Injectors for R1100, 1150


JamesW

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On the MOA oilhead forum an interesting thread was started describing the results of installing the R1200 fuel injectors on the R1100, 1150 machines. Some of the posters described astounding improvements in smoothness, surging, and power delivery. I was skeptical but couldn't resist the temptation so I ordered a pair from www.tills.de for about $200. The injectors were shipped from Germany and arrived by UPS at my home on the west coast in just three (3) days, I was impressed! Now, I use a wideband O2 sensor with LC-2 controller and have found that a rich AFR (12.9:1) resulted in exceptional smoothness and power delivery on my '94 R1100RSL so I thought I wouldn't realize much improvement but I was somewhat pleasantly surprised. On a cold start I noted the idle was smoother and required little need to use the throttle positioner to stay running. I let the machine warm up until 5 bars were displayed on the oil temp gauge at which time the Motronic went into closed loop at 13.5 AFR. The idle remained noticeably smoother as evidenced by little or no blurring of the mirrors or movement of the windscreen. I went for a short slow speed ride in the immediate vicinity and noted a slight improvement in smoothness at slow low RPM running.

 

These ev16 injectors are very carefully matched for flow rate and do result in more complete fuel atomization. Visit www.tills.de for more info.

 

I should also note that I no longer use the choke control having removed the cable to the left TB to make sure I don't use it because of the TB unbalance that results. Instead I use a Go Cruise cruise control to position the throttle when cold starting and during warm up. Although the R1200 injectors make throttle positioning all but unnecessary.

 

Long and short is the biggest improvement seems to be with cold starting and smooth idle. Before the bike was cold blooded and required constant throttle until 2 bars on the oil temp gauge. When it comes to surging or smoothness at speed I don't see much improvement over what I have experienced at an AFR of 12.9:1 but the bike seems just as smooth at a leaner mixture of 13.2 to 13.5 so, imo this modification is worth the $200 especially when used with an AFXIED or LC-2. Also, I recently had my stock ev1 injectors cleaned and flow tested by RC Fuel Injection so I am comparing these R1200 injectors to stock injectors that have been well maintained to begin with. I did check TB sync with the new injectors and found no adjustment required.

Edited by JamesW
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Hi Jim, I've thought of trying this too but can't convince myself.

 

There are a few possible benefits: more fuel, atomization and better matching. Of the three, the better matching is the most certain benefit. But still, an LC-2 (or AF-XIED) creates the most durable improvement.

 

Most who've bought these injectors report an immediate improvement in idle. The reason is that these injectors turn on much more quickly and therefore until there's been a period of adaptation (probably a few tanks of fuel) there will be more fuel (and a richer mixture) at cold start and low engine loads. This benefit will disappear with time.

 

Better matching is highly likely since that is a key service of the supplier. If they are indeed matched at several pulse widths, you should experience a smoother engine. I've read on other sites that you can expect the matching to degrade over time as they wear and accumulate deposits. Lambda-shifting with the LC-2 or AF-XIED, as you're doing, makes the engine much less sensitive to injector mismatch because as you richen the mixture the oxygen is completely consumed during combustion so fuel deltas between the cylinders don't matter as much. So you're doing two things to improve power balance, of the two lambda shifting is the more durable benefit.

 

It is very hard to gauge the effect of better atomization. The Oilheads all squirt fuel twice per combustion cycle, so half of the fuel is deposited on the intake surfaces and then evaporated off meaning it is very well atomized whatever the injector, once the engine is hot. The second half is probably timed closer to intake valve opening. Better atomization is probably of greater benefit to a cold engine.

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Any potential benefits using these injectors with the stock fuel delivery configuration? I have a slightly leaky injector and been considering a replacement so might as well get a matched pair instead. Bike is a 1999 R259R R1100R with only 18K miles.

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If you need injectors anyway I don't think you can go wrong with these and delivery from Germany is only two days for $16, hard to beat. Just the improvement in cold starting was worth it to me.

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I read that thread on advrider. Tills has changed his shipping method to UPS cutting delivery time from Germany to two or three days, nice. Also, these injectors are sold in carefully matched pairs to be effective for a two cylinder motor like the BMW twin. Not just off the shelf unmatched EV14 injectors.

 

I also had the injectors from my FJR1300A cleaned and tested at RC Engineering. Two of the four injectors were dripping and flow rates were very different. After installing the clean injectors in the already smooth running FJR I could tell very little if any actual improvement in running since multi-cylinder motors are just not as sensitive to unbalanced injectors but not so with the BMW twin.

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Ideally, injectors would be matched at something like:

 

2 mS 1200 rpm (4% duty cycle)

3 mS 2000 rpm

4 mS 3000 rpm

6 mS 4000 rpm

8 mS 7000 rpm (~100% duty cycle)

Edited by roger 04 rt
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I just noticed I screwed up in the thread topic when I referred to these injectors as EV16 instead of EV14, sorry.

 

Hi Roger, I think Jergen at tills.de matches injectors at different RPM's and duty cycles as you point out.

 

Go to www.tills.de home page and click on the WHY tab in upper left. Pretty good methods description.

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Finally, the sun shone brightly on the central Oregon coast and I took the R1100RSL with its new matched and balanced EV14 fuel injectors out for a ride. The long and short is the $200 investment was worth it. Not to say that I couldn't be happy with the way the bike performed anyway but the EV14 injectors represent some pretty good icing on the cake.

 

First, cold starting with an immediate smooth idle is great and just having the cold bloodedness gone is worth it. Power delivery when the throttle is twisted is smoother and stronger than with the old injectors. I was in fifth gear cruising along about 60 mph behind a car. A passing opportunity presented itself and with no down shift I shot around the car at 100 mph in less time than it took to think about it. Cruising at any speed at any RPM from 3K to 6K is much smoother where before vibration would come in to play above 4K. For some reason which makes no sense to me the bike even seemed to shift smoother. Could be I was just in a great mood on a beautiful day. Or maybe it was like going to the driving range when the moon ,mars, and earth are in alignment and you can do no wrong and the next day all you do is hit one slice into the pucker brush after another, who knows?

 

The outside temperature was in the low 50's, no wind, and bright sun. Seventeen miles down the road and the oil temperature gauge displayed only 4 bars and wouldn't show 5 bars like normal until I stopped and let the motor idle for a minute or so. Then, after ridding a couple miles the display would return to 4 bars. Now, the bike has never done this before and I'm at a loss to figure out why. I can't see how this is related to the EV14 injectors. I'm not concerned about this development other than it is odd and the bike can't be in closed loop at less than 5 bars on the temp gauge.

 

So, to sum up: (1) Cold starting and running is much improved. (2) Power delivery and acceleration is stronger. (3) The bike seems to shift smoother?? (4) Vibration above 4K revs is a non issue. (5) Riding in 5th gear at lower RPM seems easier and much smoother.

 

Shortly after i purchased the bike I visited Big Twin BMW at Boise, ID and had 3 runs on their dyno. I'm thinking it might be time for another dyno run. Of course that dyno run was done before installation of a wideband O2 sensor with LC-2 controller. It might be worth installing the EV1 injectors for a dyno run followed by a run with the EV14 matched units.

 

So, I'm happy with the results and I consider the money spent on the injectors to have been worth it and I would recommend this product to anyone interested in a simple to do worthwhile performance upgrade.

 

One more thing: I don't think the power output has changed I think it just gave me that impression because of the improvement in overall smoothness and responsiveness. I do wonder if torque at lower revs might be improved?

 

I even think I could get the drop on an FJR off the line and at least through an intersection. :rofl:

 

 

Edited by JamesW
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Jim, Good report, well matched injectors will produce a smoother engine, especially if the TBs are also well matched. When I wired my stick coils through a relay rather than to the key switch, I felt a very similar improvement to what you're reporting. Anything that stabilizes combustion seems to be a plus for the Boxers.

 

If you reinstall the old injectors, reset the Motronic since your adaptives with the new injectors are starting to remove fuel. Then run 3-4 tanks of fuel before drawing any conclusions since it takes time for the adaptive values to fully develop. (Same when you put the new injectors back.)

 

As far as four bars on the temp gauge, not sure what to make of that but you will be in closed loop at four bars, which you can confirm with your LC-2.

 

Edited by roger 04 rt
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I read that thread on advrider. Tills has changed his shipping method to UPS cutting delivery time from Germany to two or three days, nice. Also, these injectors are sold in carefully matched pairs to be effective for a two cylinder motor like the BMW twin. Not just off the shelf unmatched EV14 injectors.

 

I also had the injectors from my FJR1300A cleaned and tested at RC Engineering. Two of the four injectors were dripping and flow rates were very different. After installing the clean injectors in the already smooth running FJR I could tell very little if any actual improvement in running since multi-cylinder motors are just not as sensitive to unbalanced injectors but not so with the BMW twin.

 

JamesW,

 

Injector-Rehab ALSO provides matched pairs of injectors with their kit, along with a printout of the test report. The report on the injectors I got showed them to be exactly matched. If you are still skeptical, you can request a video of the test of YOUR injectors.

 

Plus, Injector-Rehab will sell just the adapters, or any of the O-rings, seals, etc that you might need.

 

The MATCHED EV14 injectors with adapters and extra O-rings I got for my R1100S were $139 plus $9.70 USPS.

 

Sounds to me like a VERY similar package for $50 less, plus you can purchase the adapters separately, if you want.

 

Lowndes

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Hi Roger, Got up this AM and it's back to more rain, Grrrrrrr....

 

I have verified several times with the LC-2 that my R1100 definitely does not go closed loop until the precise time the temp display goes to the fifth bar. Of course I can't say this is true with all R1100's but it is the case with my bike which is a very earlier version that was built (06/93) before the ECU was updated shortly after this build date. As was the update from the M93 trans to the M94 only 2 months after mine was built.

 

Been thinking about my test ride yesterday (about 60 miles) and this R1100 now reminds me very much of my first BMW which was a new R75/7 the difference being power delivery obviously but just as smooth. I really loved that R75 and wish I still had it. I think less vibration is by far the biggest improvement with these injectors which no doubt effects one's perspective in other areas like shifting improvement. In other words psychological related positive effects.

 

I just thought of something! The next (if ever) nice day I'm going to ride over to Eugene and visit the BMW dealer and test ride a new R1200RT just to compare the smoothness with my 1100. Nope, not going to be tempted at all not even a little bit. I'll take the FJR over a new BMW, just don't need the hassle. Example: $18/qt motor oil and service me soon lights that can't be extinguished without another $300 for a GS911 to name but a few. Oh, and $115/hour shop rate. I could go on and on and....

Edited by JamesW
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I read that thread on advrider. Tills has changed his shipping method to UPS cutting delivery time from Germany to two or three days, nice. Also, these injectors are sold in carefully matched pairs to be effective for a two cylinder motor like the BMW twin. Not just off the shelf unmatched EV14 injectors.

 

I also had the injectors from my FJR1300A cleaned and tested at RC Engineering. Two of the four injectors were dripping and flow rates were very different. After installing the clean injectors in the already smooth running FJR I could tell very little if any actual improvement in running since multi-cylinder motors are just not as sensitive to unbalanced injectors but not so with the BMW twin.

 

JamesW,

 

Injector-Rehab ALSO provides matched pairs of injectors with their kit, along with a printout of the test report. The report on the injectors I got showed them to be exactly matched. If you are still skeptical, you can request a video of the test of YOUR injectors.

 

Plus, Injector-Rehab will sell just the adapters, or any of the O-rings, seals, etc that you might need.

 

The MATCHED EV14 injectors with adapters and extra O-rings I got for my R1100S were $139 plus $9.70 USPS.

 

Sounds to me like a VERY similar package for $50 less, plus you can purchase the adapters separately, if you want.

 

Lowndes

 

At how many points are the injector-rehab injectors matched. Please post the report you got.

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Roger 04 rt,

 

I'm NOT trying to see I-R products or services, just saying there is an alternative with some possible benefits (less money, adapters separately, other injector services, old injector buy-back, USA guy, telephone support, etc) not available at some other places (Tils).

 

Here is the report that came with the injectors:

 

FogcHqsDnGV_HwsfyPDdiTNihZJ26AEMriiZPlMgpQ-AvatrDDTzKBjZJh9FsTsLGrMYtyEO-eZEKMdrr0NQZ8bBn50qeXZRttf7gBf7NH--C9k3OoDOCyKZnFVjF0n6LwD95QZsKueo9Nsdxl9GPCFNOu1Oi_y0T81DnJU00I9N7do5n_mM-MK4kBnQaWFgVtaYTcBtijakWsl6VIBF3W0wjjJa2EjJ8EIkpvjPgISuE-8sC6ZKjAgnVio29sa6ts7vVUM3l0LtB774DKHuhYvP7EUXVhG9X8ZfKUAqTUUEReEtg_msGl5eC0n9DCPVndkfl7-nK4Sc5NluhFFxMWcLncgbs3olfzwavaaR_ORcAF1JQgvBIHawmuhDPi1CTM8JgSeO_gfvMERXGYkkh6ooaN0v9dlC1U_Re6sLwODd9bdfJeC7aFaSyIyoAuz8ZWOhuvMx4f3jqigl25YyJv5xvRlQocblkmghZimTNRQoMIQ9PlmtWoouRbgLotwD0-phQdTmYdOESnqvuDvYU4f_FxppZV089Q5OVVaPmfvUvcrwnjRqsJjRIDBwy3LnPV1YFLm7DkwGTGJ4AFHiXhzb3OLsNp1bWXIkE_0uekJH8gAx=w332-h589-no

 

Lowndes

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Hi Lowndes, From your report it looks like the injectors you got from IR are actually used? I know tills.de kits contain new genuine, not copies, Bosch EV14 injectors. Jurgen even includes the original Bosch cartons the injectors came in. I wasn't aware there apparently are copies from china out there.

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JamesW,

 

These are Bosch injectors, per I-R, and by the looks of them. I-R says they are "Bosch", "Refurbished", "Cleaned & Flow Tested (Matched) set of R1200xx Injectors". They look brand new to me, but what do I know. Heck, I have not even installed them yet. But, I'd bet the house they are what they say they are, and will improve my bike's engine when I do it.

 

Hey, if you and Roger 04 feel better buying from a different, or "German" supplier, feel that by paying more you "get what you pay for", and the difference is worth it, by all means, PLEASE DO!!

 

$50 is still $50, and Tills doesn't want to sell adapters separately. I already put my money where my mouth is, but do not have the proof in the puddin' yet. But, I'll let you know when I do!!

 

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Well, I just spent $50 tonight for a fish and chips dinner for two. So what's fifty bucks? Answer: Not much! and I got nada to show for it, imo of course.

 

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I bought 2 injectors off a 1200gs. Will make the necessary changes regarding fitting them to the 1100RT intakes, aluminum bushings + o-rings and some 1 mm thick sheet of stainless steel to retain the injector to the housing.

 

Just need to find some time to make the changes :D

 

Dan.

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Hey, JamesW,

 

Well, you probably got a very good fish and chips dinner where you are!! That's something.

 

Yesterday I noticed that one of the vids on the Injector-Rehab site was partially hijacked after viewing and sent an email to the site to let them know. A few minutes later I got a phone call from Keith, the owner, asking about it. He was driving and had a few minutes, but couldn't email. Really nice guy. He does much more than motorcycle injectors, they do injectors for regular automobiles, plus large automobile and marine racing teams from all over the world. He told me stories about people DRIVING from as far away as Texas just to watch their injectors being tested!!

 

I asked about the "multi-point testing" thing. He said they run a dynamic test that covers more than the entire range of normal operating pulse duration. ANY differences would show up there.

 

I also suggested he just raise his pricing for BMW injectors several hundred dollars and he would get ALL the BMW business. He declined. But they do have that video service where they will vid your injectors being tested, for a nominal fee.

 

Regards,

 

Lowndes

 

 

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Roger 04 rt,

 

I'm NOT trying to see I-R products or services, just saying there is an alternative with some possible benefits (less money, adapters separately, other injector services, old injector buy-back, USA guy, telephone support, etc) not available at some other places (Tils).

 

Here is the report that came with the injectors:

 

FogcHqsDnGV_HwsfyPDdiTNihZJ26AEMriiZPlMgpQ-AvatrDDTzKBjZJh9FsTsLGrMYtyEO-eZEKMdrr0NQZ8bBn50qeXZRttf7gBf7NH--C9k3OoDOCyKZnFVjF0n6LwD95QZsKueo9Nsdxl9GPCFNOu1Oi_y0T81DnJU00I9N7do5n_mM-MK4kBnQaWFgVtaYTcBtijakWsl6VIBF3W0wjjJa2EjJ8EIkpvjPgISuE-8sC6ZKjAgnVio29sa6ts7vVUM3l0LtB774DKHuhYvP7EUXVhG9X8ZfKUAqTUUEReEtg_msGl5eC0n9DCPVndkfl7-nK4Sc5NluhFFxMWcLncgbs3olfzwavaaR_ORcAF1JQgvBIHawmuhDPi1CTM8JgSeO_gfvMERXGYkkh6ooaN0v9dlC1U_Re6sLwODd9bdfJeC7aFaSyIyoAuz8ZWOhuvMx4f3jqigl25YyJv5xvRlQocblkmghZimTNRQoMIQ9PlmtWoouRbgLotwD0-phQdTmYdOESnqvuDvYU4f_FxppZV089Q5OVVaPmfvUvcrwnjRqsJjRIDBwy3LnPV1YFLm7DkwGTGJ4AFHiXhzb3OLsNp1bWXIkE_0uekJH8gAx=w332-h589-no

 

Lowndes

 

Lowndes, I don't take it that you are trying to sell anything and I'm not in any way criticizing your selection. Unfortunately I can't open the links, not sure why.

 

The issue is the claim that the EV14 injectors will produce a better result due to their better atomization, a claim which has, at best, anecdotal evidence. By contrast, matched injectors of any type (EV1, 4 or 14), provided they are matched across their range of use, will produce better engine smoothness.

 

Because the EV14 injectors turn on faster they will produce a temporary benefit by richening the mixture, until the adaptation period has passed. This will factor into reports made immediately after installation. What we need is some measured evidence of effects beyond the matching benefits.

 

One thing that could be done is to take data from an R1100 on equally well matched EV1 and EV14 injectors.

 

If the issue is that a rider needs new injectors, I can't think of any reason not to buy either IR or Tills kits but as far as spending $100 - $200 for a performance benefit, that's still an open issue in my mind.

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"I also suggested he just raise his pricing for BMW injectors several hundred dollars and he would get ALL the BMW business. He declined."

 

Regards,

 

Lowndes

 

Well Lowndes, That is the first time I've ever had my intelligence insulted just because I chose to buy one product over another. Your comment really makes me wish I had never started this thread in the first place.

 

Hi Roger, I agree that the main reason to buy these injectors be it from tills or IR is to replace failed injectors. If it's performance improvement you seek then AFXIED or LC-2 is the answer.

 

I'm done!

 

 

Edited by JamesW
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JamesW, Sorry you took my comment personally. I meant it in jest only, and about all of us beemer riders. It is sometimes an effective marketing ploy, however. My apologies.

 

Roger 04 RT, Please accept my apologies if I offended you, too.

 

I have two dyno runs on my box stock '99 R1100S from this past season. The second run is only different by a few weeks, a few hundred miles, a valve adjustment and a partial tank of non-ethanol gas. They show a 4-5 RWHP difference.

I plan to install the matched EV14's and an AF-Xied tomorrow, and rebalance the TB's. I would like to dyno it again, but it may be several months before I can do that. That should tell the story on this combo.

 

Maybe i figured out how to get pics to load:

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I just installed the I-R set on my '99 R1100S.

 

The Tills set looked like a quality kit with new injectors, instructions and spare O rings. I-R has reconditioned injectors, no instructions and no extra O rings.

 

So why did I go with I-R? A recon part is not a big deal to me, it was couple of bucks less and in some small way, supporting an on-shore company sorta helped make the decision of one vs the other. On the other hand, new parts plus extras can be worth the small difference between the kits for many folks.

 

I wasn't looking for a performance gain, but I was experiencing an intermittent drop-out of one cylinder at idle and thought this might help. And it did. Did I need 'new' injectors vs just sending the old ones out for cleaning? Who knows, maybe not. But I figured it was time to give the 17 year old parts a rest.

 

Even with no instructions, it only took a 30 second YouTube search and 10 minutes on the first side and then 5 minutes on the second to get the injectors swapped out. Bike fired right up and after doing a bit of seat of the pants BBS adjustment there was no drop out and a seemingly smoother idle so I'm happy.

 

Off idle riding performance is not noticeably different as far as the 'butt dyno' is concerned other than the normal placebo affect of a new part :Cool:

 

 

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I got the I-R injectors AND the AF-Xied (O2 sensor adjuster) installed this morning. 30 min to remove the tupperware, 10 and 5 min on the injectors, just like chrisolson said above. A little silicone lube on the O-rings really helps, and protects the O-rings from getting torn. The AF-Xied was a plug and play. OK, maybe 10 min for wire routing and cable ties.

 

The engine fired right up and after 20-30 seconds of idle it was smooth. We did a 60 mile ride in 50 deg F weather thru the backroads of N GA. The engine was noticeably smoother and MUCH, MUCH easier to use off idle and low RPM's. I thought it was smooth before, but this is noticeably smoother. The longer we rode, the better it got.

 

Obviously, I can't say if it was the injectors or the AF-Xied that helped the most. I'd guess the smoothness was mostly the injectors and the low RPM help was mostly the AF-Xied.

 

I did learn that the old injectors are 4 hole, but EV1 shape. They are the correct part number per Bob's microfiche. It might be interesting to send them to I-R and see how closely matched they are.

 

I can open the pics in my post above by right clicking on them. They were plainly visible in the "Preview Post", just not in the thread. Can anyone else open them??

 

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Edited by Lowndes
Link to comment
.... I-R has reconditioned injectors, no instructions and no extra O rings.

 

 

 

chrisolson,

 

I ordered extra O-rings from I-R, 35 cents ea. Came with the injectors.

 

Lowndes

Link to comment
I ordered extra O-rings from I-R, 35 cents ea. Came with the injectors.

Cool ... although not having them wasn't a big deal since I didn't figure I'd ever need them. The orig were still working fine after 17 years so the new ones should probably outlast me :Cool:

Link to comment
I got the I-R injectors AND the AF-Xied (O2 sensor adjuster) installed this morning. 30 min to remove the tupperware, 10 and 5 min on the injectors, just like chrisolson said above. A little silicone lube on the O-rings really helps, and protects the O-rings from getting torn. The AF-Xied was a plug and play. OK, maybe 10 min for wire routing and cable ties.

 

The engine fired right up and after 20-30 seconds of idle it was smooth. We did a 60 mile ride in 50 deg F weather thru the backroads of N GA. The engine was noticeably smoother and MUCH, MUCH easier to use off idle and low RPM's. I thought it was smooth before, but this is noticeably smoother. The longer we rode, the better it got.

 

Obviously, I can't say if it was the injectors or the AF-Xied that helped the most. I'd guess the smoothness was mostly the injectors and the low RPM help was mostly the AF-Xied.

 

I did learn that the old injectors are 4 hole, but EV1 shape. They are the correct part number per Bob's microfiche. It might be interesting to send them to I-R and see how closely matched they are.

 

I can open the pics in my post above by right clicking on them. They were plainly visible in the "Preview Post", just not in the thread. Can anyone else open them??

 

I'm not seeing any of them in my iPad. I'll try a computer, safari, chrome and IE later.

 

I'm glad things worked out for you all around. i hadn't paid attention to which bike you have until recently but I'm thinking, based on the year, that it is single spark. If it is dual, without a second load relay, there are further improvements.

 

Some of the smoothness may be attributable due to the injectors (matching) and some is likely due to the afxied. The reason the afxied smooths things out is that as you add fuel, more and more of the O2 is consumed during combustion. As you reach Best Power mixture, there is no more O2 and if you add or subtract (I.e. Mismatch) fuel there is no power difference.

 

Try running setting 7 for a few tanks of fuel, then try 8, 9, and 6 for a while too. You will prefer one of them over the others.

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Roger 04 RT,

 

You are correct, '99 R1100S ABS, single spark.

 

The AF-Xied came set on 7 and I left it there, as several others said they found that to be a good setting. Looks like it may be a while before I can get back on it again; holidays, weather, work. But, I'll definitely try the other settings.

 

The next upgrade may be the "Rocket Sprockets", but the rear main seal and clutch splines need some serious attention this winter.

 

The pics of the dyno tests and I-R test report that didn't post are here (I hope):

 

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Regards,

 

 

Lowndes

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello All,

I ordered the kit from www.tills.de on Dec 22, 2016 as foretold in the previous post!!! Saturday Dec 24, 2016 UPS delivered!! Shocked I did not expect it before Christmas.

Nice plastic box with everything but the tools for the installation. True to form after removing the tupperware 15 min installation. What a diffrence in how the motor runs and sounds. The original R1100 injectors have a single point spray. The R1200 injectors have a 4 point spray. Proof will be in the long ride. The last 50 miles the bike feels smoother and quicker up to speed. I LIKE IT!!!

 

Watch on Youtube:

and for pictures of the parts:

 

 

Link to comment
  • 1 month later...

I got a set from I-R and installed them over the winter. I had the bike out for the first time last Sunday but it's still pretty cold here in the Motor City. (28F)

 

Previously, I had to leave the fast idle switch on until 2 bars before turning off, to get a smooth idle, but with the new injectors, it was smooth and idling perfect after about 20 seconds, fast idle off.

 

I didn't notice any improvement in smoothness, power delivery, but my 1150 always feels smooth and torquey anyway, so who knows.

 

More info this weekend as the temps are supposed to hit mid 50's.

 

RPG

 

 

Link to comment
I got a set from I-R and installed them over the winter. I had the bike out for the first time last Sunday but it's still pretty cold here in the Motor City. (28F)

 

Previously, I had to leave the fast idle switch on until 2 bars before turning off, to get a smooth idle, but with the new injectors, it was smooth and idling perfect after about 20 seconds, fast idle off.

 

I didn't notice any improvement in smoothness, power delivery, but my 1150 always feels smooth and torquey anyway, so who knows.

 

More info this weekend as the temps are supposed to hit mid 50's.

 

RPG

 

 

Morning Rick

 

What you are seeing is pretty normal-- the 1200 injectors have a better spray pattern

so improve the cold start idle & open loop operation but in closed loop warm engine

riding the o2 sensor compensates for the new injectors so the basic fueling doesn't

change much .

 

Put a fuel controller on that bike (like AF-XiED) & those injectors will be more noticeable in the

closed loop riding zone.

Link to comment
I got a set from I-R and installed them over the winter. I had the bike out for the first time last Sunday but it's still pretty cold here in the Motor City. (28F)

 

Previously, I had to leave the fast idle switch on until 2 bars before turning off, to get a smooth idle, but with the new injectors, it was smooth and idling perfect after about 20 seconds, fast idle off.

 

I didn't notice any improvement in smoothness, power delivery, but my 1150 always feels smooth and torquey anyway, so who knows.

 

More info this weekend as the temps are supposed to hit mid 50's.

 

RPG

 

 

Morning Rick

 

What you are seeing is pretty normal-- the 1200 injectors have a better spray pattern

so improve the cold start idle & open loop operation but in closed loop warm engine

riding the o2 sensor compensates for the new injectors so the basic fueling doesn't

change much .

 

Put a fuel controller on that bike (like AF-XiED) & those injectors will be more noticeable in the

closed loop riding zone.

 

+2

Link to comment
I got a set from I-R and installed them over the winter. I had the bike out for the first time last Sunday but it's still pretty cold here in the Motor City. (28F)

 

Previously, I had to leave the fast idle switch on until 2 bars before turning off, to get a smooth idle, but with the new injectors, it was smooth and idling perfect after about 20 seconds, fast idle off.

 

I didn't notice any improvement in smoothness, power delivery, but my 1150 always feels smooth and torquey anyway, so who knows.

 

More info this weekend as the temps are supposed to hit mid 50's.

 

RPG

 

 

Morning Rick

 

What you are seeing is pretty normal-- the 1200 injectors have a better spray pattern

so improve the cold start idle & open loop operation but in closed loop warm engine

riding the o2 sensor compensates for the new injectors so the basic fueling doesn't

change much .

 

Put a fuel controller on that bike (like AF-XiED) & those injectors will be more noticeable in the

closed loop riding zone.

 

+2

 

+3

Link to comment
I got a set from I-R and installed them over the winter. I had the bike out for the first time last Sunday but it's still pretty cold here in the Motor City. (28F)

 

Previously, I had to leave the fast idle switch on until 2 bars before turning off, to get a smooth idle, but with the new injectors, it was smooth and idling perfect after about 20 seconds, fast idle off.

 

I didn't notice any improvement in smoothness, power delivery, but my 1150 always feels smooth and torquey anyway, so who knows.

 

More info this weekend as the temps are supposed to hit mid 50's.

 

RPG

 

 

I got in around 250 miles over the weekend amidst the 60F weather that hit us here in Motown.

 

Cold idle is definitely smoother but as D.R. says, once it goes closed loop, the engine performs as before.

 

btw, it was nice to hit some south central MI backroads. This time of year it's best to take it easy as most of the turns have dirt and other debris.

 

RPG

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I bought a 2004 1150RT in the summer of 2015. It was the hardest bike to ride I'd ever been on. The throttle acted like an on/off switch, it surged in the mid range and my right hand would go to sleep trying to maintain steady speeds.

 

After adjusting the valves and replacing a stick coil, cleaning and syncing the throttle bodies, it still wasn't much better. I then found the TPS sensor had been misadjusted. I reset it using Roger 04's procedure from this forum, and it was much improved. The throttle was a lot smoother and it was now ridable, but still felt lean and surged.

 

After reading Roger 04's wide band O2 sensor project, I decided that's what it needed. Last fall I ordered an LC-2 from Amazon. While waiting for it to arrive, I reread the thread.

 

There is a part about injector flow rates and how critical it is that they be the same. I hadn't really thought about it before, but a slight difference between sides really affects the power output. We go to great lengths to get the airflow the same, but if both sides aren't receiving the same amount of fuel, then they can't make the same power. You will have one cylinder running richer than the designed 14.7:1, and one running leaner, because we have a single O2 sensor that averages the output between cylinders. Anyway, I decided I needed to test my injectors before proceeding. Both were a bit dirty with less than optimal spray patterns, so I cleaned them, and cleaned them but still had one that dribbled a little under low pressure, so I took them to the local Bosch service center and had them clean them. They weren't able to make any improvements. The one injector would have probably been okay except that it flowed 12% more than the one with a good pattern. Ugh! One cylinder has been 6% lean, and the other 6% rich. I found new OEM Bosch injectors on Amazon.co.UK for 33 British pounds each. I paid for expedited shipping and had them within the week for a little over $100 US, total.

 

I tested the total flow of them, and they were within 1% of each other. WooHoo! I installed them and the LC-2. In the interest of only changing one thing at a time, I set the LC-2 to 14.7:1 and went for a ride. It was definitely smoother and felt a bit torquier. I should have left it at that setting for a couple of tanks of gas to let the open loop adaptation tables update, but the riding season was getting short, and I really wanted to see what a richer mixture felt like.

 

I'm almost through my second tank of gas since setting the mixture to 14:1. I'm blown away by how much of an improvement the richer mixture makes. You can't tell it's injected anymore. It feels like my old '83 R100RT with Bing carburetors did, throttle wise. The increase in low RPM torque is just what it needed. Taking off from a stop is so much easier. The other day I made a "U" turn on a residential street and realized afterwards that I'd done it just idling in first gear. It just purrs down the highway at 3,000 RPM in 6th gear. The bike is a joy to ride now.

 

Everything I did improved the ridability, but the richer mixture is the answer. I would go with the AF-Xied if I had it to do over. The simplicity and ease of installation are worth it. By the time you get a project box, and a relay, and wiring, etc, the cost is very similar.

 

I want to thank Roger 04 RT for his time, and the effort he put into the O2 wideband project. His elegant solution makes these bikes run like the factory intended.

 

Just my 2 cents,

Jeff

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  • 7 months later...

I ordered the I-R version of the EV14 injector upgrade. And I was unable to install the injectors.

 

The problem is that the o-ring on the tip of the adapter won't slide into the cylindrical bore of the throttle body. Instead, it gets stuck in the beveled entrance to the throttle body bore.

 

For those of you who have installed these EV14 injectors using an adapter, can you verify that they are intended to seat in the cylindrical portion of the throttle body bore?

 

My moto is a 2004 R1150RT if that matters.

 

Thanks, Cap

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I ordered the I-R version of the EV14 injector upgrade. And I was unable to install the injectors.

 

The problem is that the o-ring on the tip of the adapter won't slide into the cylindrical bore of the throttle body. Instead, it gets stuck in the beveled entrance to the throttle body bore.

 

For those of you who have installed these EV14 injectors using an adapter, can you verify that they are intended to seat in the cylindrical portion of the throttle body bore?

 

Hi Cap,

 

Yes, they should seat into the TB. I upgraded mine last year. I used a smear of vaseline on the o-rings and had no issues.

 

FWIW, they made almost zero difference on my '04 RT. Slightly better cold running but no increase in mileage as claimed by others. Maybe it's me. My daily commute is 120 miles, mostly freeways, running between 75-85mph.

 

RPG

 

My moto is a 2004 R1150RT if that matters.

 

Thanks, Cap

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Hi Cap - that's odd, 'cos many other Beemer riders on the complicated Pelican Parts forum are bowled-over by better burning, pokier performance and better fuel economy after fitting the later squirters.

There's a massively-long thread there with dozens of responses.

AL in s.e. Spain

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UPDATE... I got them installed correctly.

 

I placed the injectors in a freezer for an hour. While I was waiting, I removed both of the stock injectors and prepared the throttle-body bore with some Teflon grease. Finally, I smeared a thin coating of the Teflon grease directly onto the frozen O-rings.

 

And voila, the EV14 injector adapters popped right in. I separated the EV14 injector from the adapter, and installed that end into the fuel fitting. And finally, I reconnected the new injectors to their adapters. This sequence ensures proper positioning of the various parts.

 

Startup was fine, no drama.

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Cap,

 

As I remember, a very thin smear of silicone grease on the O-ring did the trick for me. Twice. It is a very tight fit. I got the kit with adapters, O-rings, stand-offs and longer screws from Keith Gibbons at Injector Rehab The injectors and adapters are just as beautiful now as when first installed a year ago:

 

rsWBSOgXivzpkBK-crYvnMInbL6U95bmcMdjYBqaEUBUX73GJdZuhF7TR4R66oxHuvAyGTVK5l9CeWCQnow5GO598cPyBHQitjuLehwM-z9PVIihzG6LlumMc3yV_qECsRh0g7R6W75DN5n17nrlE4LiCFcUP3FDbjDi-N9HMkgQZb8TMVaWE1jO8y9XtecjLJMmsN-zQXpi0whnHuQ6DPFZdKYbc5vWoK4mO2tJNrfTbFf4EffMQ9nSTVVyrIl8RqLLzg_3SQA256I6nER-P-kQHsjJbErZyLceDY2rLlFIF0a6p8uDz8ykZ020uaGYpoyeegwqPyMnM-XrcP_E_5clt-bnmnqjtu56lY1zGDt3g8OCeC0nUeh9Ij7U3fKMexuVg644YH6W76O5geaSHn-zWxjKpowiYVIuLquZ_tz7FHvv47iEtSyZL7PZXaq6KCcyY7mKvinMwW7tkLxSb3xdujkiQ43Befkkb8GHw0BazxSY-IlfqMYpcCMtA7DZnCgqSLN77x9KqYsLjJ8kjQH2FAeaCI7YBqPHE1MTILK1ANUdE-9r919U__jSKdqzKvDlEg8_W5Uzit-tVfUYKfqjzhCLhIWCbhu6idw7nr5IpTSEakfmWNBSL-9JEv2AW5VvoF1n3LFs4rh_M-lZlzXAmAnnyA29u54=w345-h613-no?.jpg

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I got the kit with adapters, O-rings, stand-offs and longer screws from Keith Gibbons at Injector Rehab

 

I got mine from Keith, also. But mine look very different. I didn't need longer screws -- rather the parts fit into the OEM mounting bracket.

 

In any case, I adjusted the valves, replaced the air filter, and then set my TB sync. It certainly sounds much smoother. But I haven't had a chance to ride yet. Hopefully the weather cooperates tomorrow.

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...mine look very different...

 

Here are some pics that might help somebody who is trying to install these EV14 injectors. The first pic shows the throttle body port in my 2004 R1150RT. Note the counter bore bevel at the entrance.

 

bevel.jpg

 

Now, in this picture, you can see my first attempt to install the injectors. Note how the O-ring is captured in the bevel, and has not seated properly deeper in the bore. I pushed the adapter all the way until is was flush with the throttle body, and it would simply pop back out when I let go. Also note that the EV14 injector is seated too deep into the adapter.

 

wrong.jpg

 

Finally, here is a picture of a correctly seated EV14 with adapter. I placed a scale alongside the injector so that you can see the proper gap between the injector shoulder and the adapter "pant." The gap is about one-quarter of an inch. And the adapter pant is seated against the throttle body with no O-ring visible. As I mentioned previously, I had to freeze the O-rings for an hour or so to make them stiff. And then I applied some Teflon grease. This procedure worked well.

 

correct.jpg

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