Pic/description of relays in fuse box?

Hello, I'm brand new to this BMW board and was wondering if anyone could identify what each relay supports. A pic would be great! I've searched the Clymer manual which says BMW does not provide any information about relays. I see relays on the wiring diagram but not the physical location in the fuse box.

I've read several posts already about the relays getting corroded which support the electric windshield, so that is my next project. I am working on a '96 R1100RT, which has had more problems so far than I envisioned when I bought it recently. I'm determined to "get things right" before calling this purchasse a "pig in a poke."

Hello, I'm brand new to this BMW board and was wondering if anyone could identify what each relay supports. A pic would be great!

It would be helpful if you filled out your profile with your location. There may be other Oilhead owners nearby that can help you with questions and maintenance issues.

This is a layout that says 1100GS but I think all of the R1100 fuse boxes have the same layout.

ADV Rider R1100 Fuse Box

The original file is located on Micapeak.

Micapeak R11fuseb.gif

Thanks for the heads up. I live in Kernersville, NC, just up the street from you. I'll add that to my signature line.

Have you ever dug into the electric windshield mechanics/electrical? That is my next project. BTW, is the windshield on fuse #3 or another? Because my windshield does not presently work, I don't know if the problem is power or corroded relays (which I suppose I will find when I take the nose piece off tomorrow.)

There are two relays for the windshield inside the front upper fairing. One to raise it up, one to lower it. I have never had to repair mine.

What's the problem with your wind shield?

I am sending you a PM - look for it.

BTW, is the windshield on fuse #3 or another? Because my windshield does not presently work, I don't know if the problem is power or corroded relays (which I suppose I will find when I take the nose piece off tomorrow.)

I have an electric diagram for the RT that shows fuse 8 for the radio and the windscreen. The fuse box layout shows 8 to be empty, but the diagram says it is a 4 Amp fuse.

Interesting. My BMMW Service and Technical Booklet, with a publication date of 7/95 lists the radio in fuse 8 on the RT as 15 A. No reference to windshield, but if my radio works, I should have power to the windshield motor. This further convinces me my relays are suspect. Sure wish I didn't have to pull the nose piece but from what I read, the relays are buried somewhere under the WS motor. What do they look like? My anti-theft is on the circuit for fuse 3 with turn signals and clock. I've had to enter my anti-theft code a couple times when pulling fuse 3. Guess that is why there are 2 power feeds going to the radio(?).

A very clear diagram is here:

http://www.mac-pac.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/R1100RT-Elec-Diagram-V2_2.pdf

Morning Roger C

There is a lot of on-line info about the 1100RT

power windshield. Some correct, some incorrect, & some

partially correct. Using the incorrect wire diagrams or incorrect

info can cause troubleshooting problems or lead to

replacing good parts but missing the bad ones.

The windshield has 2 fuses to operate it-- (fuse #4 goes

to the windshield switch to allow relay switching.

(fuse #3) powers the actual motor operation.

(ie, fuse #4 is the control side fuse & fuse #3 is the

motor-power side fuse).

Both relays are used for up or down control as the relays

are double throw relays. What they basically do is

(both relays) control the polarity of the 12v power

& low (ground) going to the windshield motor. The

windshield motor has 2 legs (2 wires) , so when relay

(1) supplies the 12v then relay (2) supplies the low (or ground).

For the other direction then relay (1)

supplies the low (ground) then relay (2) supplies the 12v.

All the windshield control button does is control the

relays pull-in coils to allow the relays to actually

raise or lower the windshield.

At rest both relays provide motor low (ground to both

legs of the windshield motor with both 12v outputs being o

pen.

There are also 2 position limit switches (these are most difficult

to understand) the limit switch's work on the

low side of relay's pull-in coil to stop the windshield

from over-traveling (each relay has it's own position limit switch).

But both limit switches have a common low (ground).

An initial check should be to verify that BOTH fuse #3 & fuse #4

are good (not just look but actually ohm test, or replace, fuse #3 & fuse #4

Then verify that the lift/lower switch is getting ign-on 12v power from

the green/brown wire.

Then verify BOTH relays are getting 12v battery power on the

red/white wires.

Next, if fuse 3 & 4 are good & you have ign-switch-on

12v power to the switch & relay's then verify that the lift/lower

switch is plugged in & is controlling

(flipping) the relays.

If the relays are operating (one should click with

windshield UP pushed & the other should click with

windshield DOWN pushed (as long as the limit switches

are operating correctly).

Finally put a voltmeter across the lift motor leads &

verify that you see 12v when the lift/lower switch is

pressed to UP & the 12v polarity changes when

lift/lower switch is pressed to LOWER.

Hopefully you can find an issue with a fuse or lift/lower switch.

If you need to go in farther then do so & post

back here or PM me as you get to each part of the

control/power circuit & we can talk you through testing each part

of the control, relay switching, limit switch testing, etc.

It is a somewhat complex circuitry but is not that confusing

if taken & tested one part at a time before moving on to the

next part.

Hello dirtrider. Thanks for the detailed description of the windshield.

My ride is a 1996 R1100RT. By removing the dash panel, would I be able to touch the 2 relays to clean and inspect, or do I need to remove the nose piece?

Fuses 3 and 4 are good, as evidenced by the radio works and the power socket does, also.

Hello dirtrider. Thanks for the detailed description of the windshield.

 

My ride is a 1996 R1100RT. By removing the dash panel, would I be able to touch the 2 relays to clean and inspect, or do I need to remove the nose piece?

 

 

Fuses 3 and 4 are good, as evidenced by the radio works and the power socket does, also.

Afternoon Roger C

Radio working is no guarantee that fuse (4) is good (radio is fuse 3 & fuse 8)

Does the horn work as that will show if fuse (4) is good.

You will have to remove the windshield & front plastic to access the relays.

BUT!- before going in that far verify power into & out of the windshield switch.

Dirtrider. I sent you a PM but yes, the horn works and I have power thru the up/down switch on the handlebar. BMW tech tells me I will have to remove the side fairings in order to access hidden mountings for the nose piece before I can do any further testing. Fun and games this is NOT!

Dirtrider. Here is where I am now on this project. Both fuses check good. I have 12V into and out of the up/down switch. With ignition off, I have 12+V on both red/white leads into the relays. I removed the relays, sprayed them with electronic cleaner, coated them with dielectric grease and reinstalled. Then, turned on ignition and the windshield arms raised up! Just to be sure I had solved my problem, I lowered them and tried to raise them again. Nothing. Nada. I suspect I have either a relay with a flaky ground or possible low voltage. I'll try again once the battery charger switches to maintain. In the meantime, I ordered 2 new relays and will pop them in while I have things apart. Just won't be able to ride this cycle until middle of next week.

Do I need to disconnect any of the wires going to motor in order to test it? I didn't quite understand your instructions earlier. Also, what do the limit switches physically look like and where are they located? Could the high limit switch be defective? How can I check it? Thanks.

Dirtrider. Here is where I am now on this project. Both fuses check good. I have 12V into and out of the up/down switch. With ignition off, I have 12+V on both red/white leads into the relays. I removed the relays, sprayed them with electronic cleaner, coated them with dielectric grease and reinstalled. Then, turned on ignition and the windshield arms raised up! Just to be sure I had solved my problem, I lowered them and tried to raise them again. Nothing. Nada. I suspect I have either a relay with a flaky ground or possible low voltage. I'll try again once the battery charger switches to maintain. In the meantime, I ordered 2 new relays and will pop them in while I have things apart. Just won't be able to ride this cycle until middle of next week.

 

Do I need to disconnect any of the wires going to motor in order to test it? I didn't quite understand your instructions earlier. Also, what do the limit switches physically look like and where are they located? Could the high limit switch be defective? How can I check it? Thanks.

Evening Roger

To test the motor just unplug it then run 12v power & good ground to the blue & violet wires at the motor connector. The motor should run one way with 12v+ to the blue wire & ground on the violet wire, then run the other way with 12v+ to the violet wire & ground on the blue wire.

The limit switches (or more likely 1 limit switch) sure could be bad. The limit switches are inside the motor assembly. The up/down relay pull-in coils ground through the limit switches so if a limit switch is bad (open) that relay would have no pull-in coil ground & the pull-in coil would not operate.

The brown wire in the motor connector is the common ground for the limit switches.

The easiest way I have found to test the limit switches is to just ground the green(or yellow)/violet & green (or yellow)/black wires at the motor connector then try raising & lowering the windshield (be very careful to not over-travel the windshield as it will have no limit control)--If it then works properly & repeatedly then you probably have either a bad limit switch (OR) high resistance in the brown ground wire to chassis attachment (ground). -- note: on some motors the limit switch wire colors are green/violet & green back & on others they are yellow/violet & yellow/black, the center brown is low (ground) on all.

I understand the motor test but I'm fuzzy on testing the limit switch(es). If I ground both wires to the limit switch(es) and apply 12+V from battery with ground to chassis, isn't this just testing the motor again?

UPDATE: The motor tests fine!

I understand the motor test but I'm fuzzy on testing the limit switch(es). If I ground both wires to the limit switch(es) and apply 12+V from battery with ground to chassis, isn't this just testing the motor again?

 

UPDATE: The motor tests fine!

Morning Roger

By grounding the wires going to the limit switches you then need to have the motor plugged into the main harness then run the motor using the up/down switch (run the windshield as you would normally use it)

This tests the relays, motor, & up/down switch as a unit but takes the limit switches out of the operation. (just don't over-travel the motor as you now have no over-travel limits)

Basically, if the system works good with the limit switch circuits grounded but doesn't work correctly with the limit switches in the circuit then that points to a faulty limit switch.

Or put another way-- the limit switch is the low (ground) for each relay pull-in coil so the relay that has a bad limit switch will ONLY supply low (ground) to the motor but won't/can't supply 12v+ to motor.

Dirtbiker. At the suggestion of a friend, I felt of each relay and listened for the "click" (whatever is going on inside). I only felt and heard it on the front relay which is the "down" function. No feeling, nor windshield movement on the back relay for the "up" function. I again tested 12.8V on each red/white wires going into the relays. I switched the relays and got the same results, which tells me the relays work as they are supposed to, but the back relay does not send any power out to the motor and upper limit switch. I had taken the back off the up/down switch earlier and tested for power in and power out. Maybe I should test it again with the switch being activated. Could the up/down switch be the culprit?

Dirtbiker. At the suggestion of a friend, I felt of each relay and listened for the "click" (whatever is going on inside). I only felt and heard it on the front relay which is the "down" function. No feeling, nor windshield movement on the back relay for the "up" function. I again tested 12.8V on each red/white wires going into the relays. I switched the relays and got the same results, which tells me the relays work as they are supposed to, but the back relay does not send any power out to the motor and upper limit switch. I had taken the back off the up/down switch earlier and tested for power in and power out. Maybe I should test it again with the switch being activated. Could the up/down switch be the culprit?

Evening Roger

Sure it could be the problem (the up/down switch is usually the problem from what I have found. Or an intermittent open in the wire between the up/down switch & the up relay.

Have you tried grounding the limit switch wires? If grounding the limit switch circuits doesn't improve operation then the problem is probably on the switching side (ie the up/down switch).

I now think I have a flaky up/down switch, as I was able to get the arms to rise and lower with the switch off the bike and holding it in my hand and pressing on the back of the switch. That worked a couple times but not every time.

Can the switch be disassembled for a good cleaning? I sprayed it with electronic cleaner but not sure I hit the right spots. It could just be worn out and I'll have to make another rent payment at BMW and get a new switch. Trying to find a break in the up wire would be murder as it is bundled and sheathed to the front of the cycle.

I appreciate all the advice you have given. I am learning a lot about BMW and electrical stuff.

If you determine that the switch is bad, you might find a bike breaker that has the left combo switch with windshield.

http://www.kbikeparts.com/windswitch.htm

This is one I found. It says the part is available but the main page also says he threw away some parts when he was moving so a call or email would be required.

I now think I have a flaky up/down switch, as I was able to get the arms to rise and lower with the switch off the bike and holding it in my hand and pressing on the back of the switch. That worked a couple times but not every time.

 

Can the switch be disassembled for a good cleaning? I sprayed it with electronic cleaner but not sure I hit the right spots. It could just be worn out and I'll have to make another rent payment at BMW and get a new switch. Trying to find a break in the up wire would be murder as it is bundled and sheathed to the front of the cycle.

 

I appreciate all the advice you have given. I am learning a lot about BMW and electrical stuff.

Morning Roger

Pretty simple switch so you should be able to clean it or possibly re-bend the internal contacts (IF) you can get it apart without completely ruining it.

Are you sure that your issue isn't a poor connection in the connector or a wire with poor continuity? A poor wire connection can easily fool you as you move the connections when you remove the switch & move it around.

I don't bother taking them apart as I usually have a used one on my shelf but even so they can usually be found on E-Bay for reasonable money.

Dunno. I've only had the bike about 2 months and the windshield had worked flawlessly until the other day. With the switch attached the down functions fine but the up is the hit or miss. Where would I find on the bike the connector for the receiving end of the switch wires?

Morning Roger

Just follow the switch wire harness pigtail down about 60 cm or so (might go under the front of fuel tank) & it should have 2 connectors on the pig tail (a black & 3 wire white one)

You need the 3 wire white one with green/blue/gray wires in it.

If you find the switch itself bad you might try removing the little philips screws from the rear to see if you can access the window switch.

Ok. Found the white connector on the LH side of the frame near the WS motor. I disconnected to be sure I had the correct one. What sort of Ohm readings should I expect to get by connecting to each end of each wire--0.00? If the switch is bad, would the ohmeter read infinity or 0.00? Because of the inconsistent function I tend to believe the switch is at fault. Maybe worn out?

Ok. Found the white connector on the LH side of the frame near the WS motor. I disconnected to be sure I had the correct one. What sort of Ohm readings should I expect to get by connecting to each end of each wire--0.00? If the switch is bad, would the ohmeter read infinity or 0.00? Because of the inconsistent function I tend to believe the switch is at fault. Maybe worn out?

Afternoon Roger

The closer to 0.00 the better when ohming out a wire or switch function.

Depends on the ohmmeter scale used & how clean the probes are as well as how good the ohmmeter wires are.

Just touch the ohmmeter lead metal ends together (that should be close to 0.00 ohms).

Infinity means an open (no continuity).

In your case you seem to have a good down switch operation so use that as a base line to test the switch up position.

Remember that green wire is the common so test green to gray then green to blue while operating the switch.

Dirtrider, please check your PM's.

Morning____

Just a little follow up-- this thread went to PM's for the final trouble shooting.

For future readers of this thread-- I got a PM from Roger C saying that he did manage to partially get into the up/down switch & clean the contacts with contact cleaner & so far the windshield seems to be working good.