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SLAVE CYL GEAR OIL


Keith Sherman

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Keith Sherman

2004 R1150RS, changed trans/rear w/ synthetic gearoil 3K miles. 10K miles bike started to slip clutch at 4000+ RPM upper gears. Set up to pull trans with rear together but noticed 1/2 oz. gear oil in slave cyl when removed. A slight oil film below clutch noticed when starter pulled.1) How did gear oil get to slave pushrod area. Going to rebuild cyl.per beemer b and replace at least disc upon further tear down.2) Are the pricy oil resistant disc worth it? THANKS, Keith

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2004 R1150RS, changed trans/rear w/ synthetic gearoil 3K miles. 10K miles bike started to slip clutch at 4000+ RPM upper gears. Set up to pull trans with rear together but noticed 1/2 oz. gear oil in slave cyl when removed. A slight oil film below clutch noticed when starter pulled.1) How did gear oil get to slave pushrod area. Going to rebuild cyl.per beemer b and replace at least disc upon further tear down.2) Are the pricy oil resistant disc worth it?

 

Evening Keith

 

The slave cylinder bolts up to the rear of the case in line with the input shaft so there is gear oil seal at rear of case under the slave cylinder. (this needs to be so the actuation push rod can pass through the spinning input shaft)

 

It sounds like that seal is leaking (be sure that your trans vent isn't plugged as that can cause internal trans pressure)

 

On the oil resistant disk?-- THAT! is darn good question-- (IF) there are no oil or clutch fluid leaks into the clutch then in my opinion you couldn't give me one as they are not smooth to engage. On the other hand (IF) there is any fluid leaks into the clutch area then maybe the rough clutch engagement is worth the trade off.

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Hey, Keith,

 

I'm still putting a clutch in my R11S because of the same thing. I looked at the Siebenrock oil resistant clutch but decided to go with their cheapo disc ($100). It looks OK but can't tell you yet about how well it works. If DirtRider says the permium clutch is grabby you can take it to the bank. I don't know if they use the same friction material in both or not. Why would they??

 

There are some other options besides the OEM and Siebenrock discussed on other forums, like a VW clutch that only requires a little "fitting" ($60), and replacement friction discs for your clutch ($40).

 

I rebuilt the slave cyl while in there. BBY has the kit. The OEM shaft seal is a PITA to get out and not much easier to install even with P-80. I also drilled a weep hole in the tranny case just in front of the slave cyl. If that seal or the save cyl leak, all that oil goes down the clutch rod to the clutch and it's a clutch do-over. The weep hole will give you some warning at least.

 

 

The tranny in this pic is sitting at a 45 deg angle. The drain hole is a 1/16" dia drill at about "8 o'clock" in the back of the slave cyl mounting hole. It would be almost at the bottom when the tranny is mounted. The angle is difficult because of the trany config. There is about 1/4" gap between the face of the slave cyl and the seal & end of the shaft see here.

 

b5-WpLSGzfPL_LS7HShvugc3QVoHW9QnvZR8m09rHZcPDQqC0AH0jTPHbr9wfnWxDvnBxu16idqx3gwj4l0m452TKIQCbr_kirBa2cnu2CtqMfuULIl2ENU3ZZxkognSPH3jNj43wM4j-hl5_SD_ukLsw1xlQvTaZFmLbOWWfruA-NJsHCfcOrfr5BIx-jDPWrjOJxbkMQVIBXOanK8TpBLycDCDr--g_c5PpZvICMufj0oHwqsqbARZFNg48ph0-ASboT9JTeX1bdJVZwQXgdUGigw9sQuDhzaEHRioIeoVnZAVV_OwzcaH7c1rC_Lpk5bD6Ut-EGN2DNrT5kzYb7FU0XPlPlON2-_sVMMLWlLAQzqqUKDWWF_YzxrlxXGvXSWO4V5ZMcBiWWumPWBD-7O5LA4cFjLmLnl_dJ_dU0g1xA8cx7NXRWmteNXJC-sIzbQW2cOdXpBQUrT3iwFcKRke-i-OlZ5V7A2PjT4MIremuxaOyN_6BI6LIU9-L26sa_WgcHYQDF4iS5j-MombSNRZ70rX6iXo1-z4hzONAuNN2p8HFJehGBUAm7QHFO5-xGGp0b2Vd1P2WH6p9nU00HCdsFzjqw8vhDoZQinPZHPEbQT2jy9rZHlVFHxZaEwKh_QthSdHBR_-L7z5bphNSB7tGYEsauoxizxsLlwAPA=w1136-h639-no?.jpg

 

The fuzzy black spot is the out of focus weep hole:

TTXphMM41k1s10zmiU_T2COrFWac_ayRMq3GbJaSU8FklXZxnco4UZowAMn9KDjNU5MLYcIqsFw9s8w4iYOTy-jwTMTHj7mZcUXkTsRmUvdjb21eALTrNarjGIoZbeHsUpsrglAOSrX42qALcLcLm3FF4XGjVUmU3w0WpxSYYnC_FgLrdmdiV_9MszM70kandF94aCax2N4hXa2FLyFlmv6iiDp11slrCpoFn0ZCo0UKoVORTTtNfhzo0REaX6dKeprE4wkdykd6LJnlxQKK6U-jfBhvuflSCmhTNHlEJM6adznKNc_AnjQ6LxBht3BzDRAr0WPQebIcRWBzD4Oi3A2toV93CWp68vONlkUCPQja23lA-hgcfdPHmWe9GU3gI6XXcrO2ii4TisrGc6ybvWjiRtCKBnUJaxVIFIXfKryMptpi76QnHPrRWeIqTksPBZUq1LHQtZ2gUDQP2BU5Xgdj7yTXJIUcd0YObj-mweASivsAa4PAg9XMPZ4VFaVmXs8mX_lriPq9-FbjM8eDLeAoXSXQQwy00LBoLWIulNoCxUluEa-LORkTXT_IcWh8LDe2nwaOqRmGxJrxNmdr7f6BTJpUaBHXS99TODRKTfwxKfcRZNtfm2Nt32SKTl7x_NWGIqTM1fmvFAoKCFSD6JRrS2uipTQwGbxbQNIAIA=w1136-h639-no?.jpg

 

Cleaned up OEM clutch and grooved Siebenrock.

mOPt5I3DBrmsdIhTDkz1Q6RrlPp_nEXX3YqfTOM6wUirDl9S3kiW1T5D1E6LlsQYVMRcNquD0Oab5uDApFmwmYwWl_Crr4LFQM9JRs-soBB7XsQvwxJD6pGfojVat-S2ztcMOVd5rPa5pa53YC-aC05FFowQlnM4hlX2LPsEGYx4w_UrfarfutqNRW0R_ep1KjzEpjREjmOhhCieBwG5bk-ouHQT_wvXN9c2ZtqQg7PixEM3q3nvzlBZXGK31jjkRZ3be89cvCkb9QaA9qEA492xyBb5z9m0NWFMe8IKidxWlPyz-oYIPi5pIRU1v95pMRuPrXQZamv0CR4pfkdWa6Rnk5_C33GV7wJJX1pnGdka2FeS6XN1pkMMXapLJ-G8YlzroiKKe6NaQPRQfqRkuCRBs0v6yGQttn-xJa-5asZfTLQQlcy25Td3mP-c8V7C0oQw923SKRcFDWltDQ0XzaEr4rkEpCXclobb8d6J08UiACCOJR4iI2eDAi91jMY7xC8whi_AMz1wkI4gmZ-LHfCGWuWWNGVr0JIWPWnb2wVHHBE-AQXntCb4NfEbXt58QVtCYekmAQKU_ekT1rmYb6I9V9IO1d4EeVnpWJzkVHmv3cjuas7DFMlfMOhB5B4j_wFExzXdOsHJvv_K49Uwj1AZM2AwqtKp4Ag8VnaZXw=w1136-h639-no?.jpg

 

Terrible sight:

Q89DfeH9sLjapos17GKy9Zd2KmMajPnyReiBfAGaMpDhD3cXs3pbBFWmtujVcWbhvT3r2agnz42vrDplGecpfBgTxj8np4FdwLL63LxuCmHmIDZ2MtUTtZBmrWXl-WrfXmg7SZJ_s_kmxRAhhVH6Tf63BD0mHtHgjJgKWZn9XTJf8tta1UyrXU1aQesCZAbfA7A0WQ7PaTStcyy4VSv_6NhnsPhNttt-mC_puqGWJeJp-xpEEoferjHOtPmuk2Qz5SxG9NUmdfxFhJ-8vzp6KQbQiqKSanm_COXVmhPWLiaeiq4GaBc1GBYngh9xuLgAa55jMgz-TIUgWHchy1GJPYG5ag3ZFcyA0PPYH0863gJtZuOYUaTms_lvAO90471fys0yF_dJEL0zZoatipTGyirEqX04n_wcVMGsZtaZOrcjKoaB1aM58WkRg7Amr0tLUDMg0CmliDKM81JoYQ4gFRkcrGBhzAGCZ0g8X9co_5jBNs7lb8qdMLpqtOAdlqOMVT3GCmrvGS_PPJ4q-fsle6Sy6oJDpDQdbUoMObf7Yw_TIskMrjNw4Csu9csHJNmdWpThOl9YmnL7ZO3_lrfCL8XPDLvcFczDlX2rMcWyfZHuFKEU3-7lqxkQ3HAhH8TgGZVh-lWSxG__e8HTQA8aKrbLem2Py_PjKS8udHar6g=w1136-h639-no?.jpg

 

GOOD LUCK!!

 

Lowndes

Edited by Lowndes
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Same problem with my '05 at about 65k miles. I had the local dealer replace the tranny seal, though. The drain hole I drilled was about 5/32. I really liked the Seibenrock disc.

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  • 2 weeks later...

2004 1150RT , 50K KM ... the other day I was just replacing the clutc line with a spiegler, and this fluid drips out ... very smelly ... and I was not very happy ...

 

- so now i know the drill, - clutc replacement ... and new brakelines from Speigler, and new suspension from Hyperpro and new tires and ...

 

- the good part is this forum, where I have found alot off very good information ... I took apart my HES thingy becurse i have read i might go bad ... but i was shiny and the wires look brand new ...

 

- nuff said, Thanks alot all of you over there ...

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Another big plus for early oilheads that don't have or need an hydraulic clutch. Not a lot of fun changing a dry clutch in an oilhead because of a leaky slave cylinder.

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JamesW and Grevens,

 

Drill the drain/weep hole and save yourself A LOT of trouble. If I had known, I would have drilled it before I ever drove it!! It CAN BE drilled in situ with a long enough bit, without removing anything. I'd probably go ahead and remove the starter, tho. That's easy. You can remove the slave cyl, too, with the rear wheel and shock unit out of the way. There is a 1/4" gap between the aft end of the tranny shaft and seal, and the front end of the slave cyl.

 

Other bikes have an O-ring or seal on the clutch rod to prevent a leaky slave cyl from wrecking havoc with the clutch plate, your wallet, and your riding time. IF the slave cyls never leaked, it would be different, but THEY DO. Regularly. And the only "OEM" escape is to the clutch.

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JamesW and Grevens,

 

Drill the drain/weep hole and save yourself A LOT of trouble. If I had known, I would have drilled it before I ever drove it!! It CAN BE drilled in situ with a long enough bit, without removing anything. I'd probably go ahead and remove the starter, tho. That's easy. You can remove the slave cyl, too, with the rear wheel and shock unit out of the way. There is a 1/4" gap between the aft end of the tranny shaft and seal, and the front end of the slave cyl.

 

Other bikes have an O-ring or seal on the clutch rod to prevent a leaky slave cyl from wrecking havoc with the clutch plate, your wallet, and your riding time. IF the slave cyls never leaked, it would be different, but THEY DO. Regularly. And the only "OEM" escape is to the clutch.

 

Morning Lowndes, others

 

If you do choose to drill a seep hole 'without removing the slave cylinder' just

remember that the slave cylinder piston housing extends well into that trans cavity

so you REALLY need to precisely place that hole or at least use a drill stop so you

don't drill into the cylinder piston bore (if you do that you will instantly need

that drain hole)

 

Back in the 1150 days a lot of us would just cut a 1/8"-3/16" slot out of the bottom

of the slave cylinder gasket to allow seepage to escape. The BMW 1200 hexhead doesn't

even use a slave cylinder to trans housing gasket.

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Lowndes, I know a guy that also has the repair kit from BBY(fitted to a 1150GSA), for the slave pump, and he has been on the road for 50k + miles, part of them in Africa, pretty hot, and it has not leaked since :)

 

Dan.

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Hey, DR!!

 

Agreed, a misplaced hole will mean a new slave cyl.

 

I measured the depth of the slave cyl "hole" in the back of the tranny and subtracted the length of the slave cyl (from the face of the flange). The difference was 1/4" plus, can't remember the exact numbers, but it gave me enough room for confidence. Also, the back side of the tranny is in the same plane as the end of the tranny shaft and seal. I drilled it with the cyl out (being rebuilt with the kit from BBY) and the hole was good. The difficult part is getting the angle right with the drill so that the bit emerges in the bottom of the cyl hole, or as close as possible. The bearing boss, support web and gear shift linkage make it difficult to get the drill close enough. I used hex shaft drill bit in a 8" hex bit extension. The next hurdle is starting the bit at a slight tangent to the curved surface of the tranny. A big center punch worked there.

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Lowndes, I know a guy that also has the repair kit from BBY(fitted to a 1150GSA), for the slave pump, and he has been on the road for 50k + miles, part of them in Africa, pretty hot, and it has not leaked since :)

 

Dan.

 

Hey, Dan,

 

I'm really, really glad for him!! Not every slave will leak in the first 100K, or even 200K. Mine went at 16K original miles.

 

I can't imagine doing a clutch job in a grass hut with a dirt floor!!

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Afternoon Lowndes

 

Yes, on most there is JUST enough room to allow drilling.

 

You had the advantage of having it apart & measuring everything before drilling the hole.

 

My comment & warning above was more for the person that tries to drill the hole without removing the slave cylinder & measuring first.

 

Basically just a heads up to anyone contemplating the drilling without first removing the slave cylinder & measuring. That slave cylinder extends forward farther than it would seem from looking at the outside.

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... just to make it clear ... - it was ( is ) not the slave cylinder that leaks on my bike ... its gearoil ... hence the " bad smell" ...

 

- but I will drill the hole you have told me ... and this will bee done when all is taken apart ...

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Well, Grevens, sometimes even your best friends won't tell you that you have stinky gear oil.

 

So drill the hole here, just above the white neutral wire and left of the gear shift arm as close to the back side of the tranny as possible.

 

JSbvkn-QTLvoe28K9fpQiPkHpQKOZ4xVuWtqluelvuHIMkBaE9SzpvbkkP8EFnUvXjkH-SQQoOISSM6gylChpRoRvkGD8gljXYRLNybaLav6FSzuG_hZ37mS849jZc3SmM5i2_IDpShJsFatI_KcmPJY9NV7b9lrHQBGRw_RoRygPIGYVYHxABz4_5Z9kljTXDMs9MobV1xQ9anjZQZVjq4tTSL66Q__pG39VGBuTggLOeZHMqCgR_dA8x7ljmzso4QC1KgtkEeHBF5UmFCDZp8mFa3PQf_RumEnO9v0Toq14UhHR_YDfnbZ0Lu8lmRPCVc9hM9De3A0aG-IP8z9A5OQXQjs5Lga_TjO9DEJNeI4xZCU0uCq2ED-zPDQI4op5-dxw4iVwkEDYpcaO5WN8cc2IBEQ6fWz7dTWvu5tNaSrL5dwyeQRBox4ImqWsxsxKpurIytKubxg5nTcmsNAYRPQHJUjp3XRypFrQ5YAFWRN1Iz-X6Mao6Agar-eK0qlXYlzODOBNZOoLTYOIGqBJ2abyEaBfPYtvYsKglxDWqx7-4gtG5tPyBMDIHYzLF-ed2olriBuzxOlFXhPDa9UwqBTv5zDoYUDxyMWus8D2nFWwKl-=w1048-h589-no?.jpg

 

Lowndes

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2004 R1150RS, changed trans/rear w/ synthetic gearoil 3K miles. 10K miles bike started to slip clutch at 4000+ RPM upper gears. Set up to pull trans with rear together but noticed 1/2 oz. gear oil in slave cyl when removed. A slight oil film below clutch noticed when starter pulled.1) How did gear oil get to slave pushrod area. Going to rebuild cyl.per beemer b and replace at least disc upon further tear down.2) Are the pricy oil resistant disc worth it? THANKS, Keith

 

Keith,

 

Q#2: The Seibenrock Basic Plus Plate is working very well so far for me. $104 at BBY: Seibenrock Basic Plus Clutch Plate

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Morning Andy

 

Lee's probably talking about the Seibenrock picture working not the hole drilling picture as the hole drilling picture is a dead link for me also.

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Hi Lowndes. that was the link I COULD get.

What I can't get is your picture at post: #980230 - 02/15/17 02:31 AM

This should show the hole drilled in the cylinder.

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... well , how to tell about my endavour with the easy task of drilling a hole ...

 

- first off, I started my day with replacing my brakeline with new Spiegler lines ... did not bother to read the " how to adjust " and broke the Top line ... You can twist them, but you can not bend them ... ... Gdang ...

 

- so I turned to the other end of the bike, took all apart, gearbox off with finaldrive still on it ... put my self to rest on the floor with my drillingmachine, and drilled a hole right thru the seal !!! ... bugger ... new hole ... this time it was smak right in the correct position ... drillbit snapped so the end of it was in the hole ... ... - and on top of that, I was not able to get the broken seal out ... Bloody Sunday ...

 

- today I went to a freind of mine ... he got the drillbit out ... he made a tread in the wrong placed hole and put an 4mm bolt with locktite in it ... and mountet a new seal ...

 

- ohh ... and the good Pirate Jerry from www.pirateslair.net saved my sorry ass, he went all the way and beyond and is getting me the broken brakeline from Spiegler ... Spiegler USA dont send stuff to Europe, and Spiegler Europe dont have the Box with the brakelines ass they have in US ...

 

- lets just keep my skills in reparing this bike between you and me .. :)

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Hi Lowndes. that was the link I COULD get.

What I can't get is your picture at post: #980230 - 02/15/17 02:31 AM

This should show the hole drilled in the cylinder.

 

AndyS,

 

Here is a link to all the pics of the slave cyl hole:

Slave Cyl Weep Hole pics

 

Maybe this will work also. Start at the center of the pic then go half way to the top. The hole is the little black spot:

 

RoUCQb03FZ0hyo2qOC4JHv0hxbR1qo_U8dwUSoabvC7nQlUkjhTe6jBJtKf7zRg9ZYvIMupuRSPKymU0vaSKxDYuVVkOwU0OCjz377TURqyb5ic1z-1irxuHrS6pd-OiX1kubs3_q08bSxukZPByLz6XWw_amKfu8eRcFxrKYkgR0Qz6KNCpz2G_MF8EbmCespBgM7v6L4eTdX3DGpeaMJlaJSWKXXK5-C2UQm0DHBOfZYy4UG8Jhu9T17u920bUwVzbANcP2SQjWPDWcX9UCvISQKN505FfcjxC1EvcSx6IN7X8Gd29RPctJoA97h4ccHuzqymMibH1qCFwgsTQzLWSbvUMkdoDKw24ngPY50Rye88x4jfHvugUMXVLiKD6d2zEGMT0KNypLG5bCBZpdw8LG8ghi2wCUH45hQmL69-fXwvSpd09iiSKTEd1DbJe68me2X8jkcLlVKi9UpxyVQaZX1Wb6V7rjyyRsm5vM9s7HljbdxeIQrS_Qb0TOlTJCL8vVErB8235AZwx_UxNkplo1VpV_QbBjR1hGofEwLI0jlJEIBYryryyIDbvWyJ0BZN4OiA=s1048-w1048-h589-no?.jpg

 

 

Lowndes

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Hi Lowndes, thanks for the link. I can get to the link.

However, NONE of the pictures you have posed on this BMWST thread show up on any of my devices. I don't know if that is true for everyone else, but if it is, then it would be good for you top review how you are posting them,as it is taking you time and effort which is all wasted.

Cheers.

Andy

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