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Water Pump Question


RTinNC

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OK ....so I have heard of the water pump issues on the K1600 and on the GSW ... looks like my new RT has the same issue. After about a 400+ mile weekend when I was detailing the bike I notices blue/green fluid seepage on the left side of the block near a small hole. Is this the water pump seepage issue? Assume dealer will just replace the pump?

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Ed

 

They all do that...

or nearly all

Don't bother to replace it at this time.. the new one will probably seep too...

Just watch it for now..

 

The engine in a 2016 R1200RT LC is exactly the same as the engine as in the 2016 R1200GS LC.

No difference. Well, maybe color.....

Same assembly line..

Same parts..

Same HP

Same Torque

 

Your new LC has a number of quirks, this is one of them.

 

My departed 2014 RT and 2015 GS both wept from the weep hole.

 

It won't hurt anything.

 

Some guys over at ADV rider also get engine oil from outtheweephole.

That would be of more concern.. but still not necessarily catastrophic.

 

Hope you like the new bike...

They're pretty good I think, but for me "more annoyances than charms"

 

Personally, I went back to Camheads.

 

 

Edited by DMilan
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2015 RT LC and at 418 miles had a few drops come out. 6000 miles and I have never seen another drop ever. Take a picture, document it with your dealer and ride the snot out of it.

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Yes, that is coolant weeping from that hole. However, I'd say it's more important to keep an eye on the level of coolant in your overflow tank to see how much you might be losing. I have a one-year old 2015 GSA, and I had some weeping early on. I once added about 1 ½ ounces of coolant to the overflow tank, and I have not seen any signs of weeping coolant in quite some time, and I now have just passed the 12,000-mile mark.

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OK ... thanks! Will see what the dealer says. Remember I am OCD about my bikes and having ANY fluids weeping anywhere will keep me up nights. Have never had a bike leak anything. I have a 1999 Ford Explorer that has 185,000 miles on it and it does not leak a drop of anything.

 

Thanks for the confirmation. My buddy had the same issue on his K1600 and got a new pump. Weep schmeep !!

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Mine dripped for about 600 miles. Not enough to see in expansion tank.

10000 miles now and no more weeping.

GT

 

2015 R1200R. I saw the same thing. I noticed a little coolant from the hole when I first started riding it. It was a demo with a little over 700 km when I picked it up. Now at around 8,000 km there is no evidence of fluid from the hole.

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Ed,

Looks like you have the answers to your questions now... My'14 had it too.

 

I strongly recommend you take photos of the seep and document the issue... date, mileage, conditions surrounding the ride when you noticed the seep etc... yes, I think of it as an issue and the dealer needs to be notified.

 

When you take it in they will tell you it is normal or likely they will say it is frequent. This does not make it right. At about 600 miles was when I noticed mine. I pointed out to the Service Manager when I brought it in for the 600 mi service. The SM dismissed it. I took the photos and got on record.

 

The SM was soon let go for, in general bing a jerk with customers, but that is a different story... At about 2000 miles my leak was worse and with new photos in-hand I went to the dealership's top manager and showed him and explained my previous conversations. Took him about 20 seconds to look at the photo and he told the new SM to get it changed-out.

 

The New coolant pump has not leaked a drip.

 

For some time now I have been asking fellow riders to contact me via PM and I will give you my private email, and add you to the list. Send me photos.

 

There was an early change of the water pump model at the factory just after the new-model production run. But that should have been changed long ago on your bike. As the number of bikes with seeps was rising, BMW issued a bulletin or perhaps just told the dealers to not replace any more pumps unless the problem existed up to about the 6k mile mark.

 

Change-outs before then have been as a customer courtesy and good-will thing.

 

For what it is worth... in all my correspondence and photo collecting I can say that to my actual knowledge there have not been any engine failures or catastrophic problems from the seeping. If anyone has failures to report- please let me hear that.

 

I also think being a jerk about it at the dealers is not likely going to be helpful. Get it documented, get it on-record, take notes, take pictures... most of all try not to get overly concerned about it until and unless it becomes a problem..

 

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Ed,

Looks like you have the answers to your questions now... My'14 had it too.

 

I strongly recommend you take photos of the seep and document the issue... date, mileage, conditions surrounding the ride when you noticed the seep etc... yes, I think of it as an issue and the dealer needs to be notified.

 

When you take it in they will tell you it is normal or likely they will say it is frequent. This does not make it right. At about 600 miles was when I noticed mine. I pointed out to the Service Manager when I brought it in for the 600 mi service. The SM dismissed it. I took the photos and got on record.

 

The SM was soon let go for, in general bing a jerk with customers, but that is a different story... At about 2000 miles my leak was worse and with new photos in-hand I went to the dealership's top manager and showed him and explained my previous conversations. Took him about 20 seconds to look at the photo and he told the new SM to get it changed-out.

 

The New coolant pump has not leaked a drip.

 

For some time now I have been asking fellow riders to contact me via PM and I will give you my private email, and add you to the list. Send me photos.

 

There was an early change of the water pump model at the factory just after the new-model production run. But that should have been changed long ago on your bike. As the number of bikes with seeps was rising, BMW issued a bulletin or perhaps just told the dealers to not replace any more pumps unless the problem existed up to about the 6k mile mark.

 

Change-outs before then have been as a customer courtesy and good-will thing.

 

For what it is worth... in all my correspondence and photo collecting I can say that to my actual knowledge there have not been any engine failures or catastrophic problems from the seeping. If anyone has failures to report- please let me hear that.

 

I also think being a jerk about it at the dealers is not likely going to be helpful. Get it documented, get it on-record, take notes, take pictures... most of all try not to get overly concerned about it until and unless it becomes a problem..

 

Hopz .... thanks so much! Your post was dead on. Fortunately I have a really good service manager and great relationship with both the SM and dealer owner. UNFORTUNATELY I am too anal for my own good and immediately cleaned up all the splattered anti-freeze fearing it would stain the silver engine block. It was last night when I thought DUH ... should have taken photos. But will do that going forward. Will send you PM with my e-mail as well. Thanks so much.

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Morning__

 

I don't know what it is with BMW & water pumps (it isn't new technology).

 

On the BMW 700/800 engines instead of providing a water pump that doesn't seep fluid BMW instead adds a plastic drain line to the water pump vent to allow the seepage to exit under the motorcycle. The drain tube first came out as a service bulletin retro-fit & now is just added from the factory during production build. (I guess if you can't see it seeping it must be OK)

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Morning__

 

I don't know what it is with BMW & water pumps (it isn't new technology).

 

On the BMW 700/800 engines instead of providing a water pump that doesn't seep fluid BMW instead adds a plastic drain line to the water pump vent to allow the seepage to exit under the motorcycle. The drain tube first came out as a service bulletin retro-fit & now is just added from the factory during production build. (I guess if you can't see it seeping it must be OK)

 

Amazing .... isn't that like giving a homeowner a pan to catch the water from the leaky roof vs fixing the roof?

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Morning__

 

I don't know what it is with BMW & water pumps (it isn't new technology).

 

On the BMW 700/800 engines instead of providing a water pump that doesn't seep fluid BMW instead adds a plastic drain line to the water pump vent to allow the seepage to exit under the motorcycle. The drain tube first came out as a service bulletin retro-fit & now is just added from the factory during production build. (I guess if you can't see it seeping it must be OK)

 

Amazing .... isn't that like giving a homeowner a pan to catch the water from the leaky roof vs fixing the roof?

 

Morning RTinNC

 

 

Yes, pretty darn close anyhow. Only difference is BMW probably charges extra for the pan.

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Morning__

 

I don't know what it is with BMW & water pumps (it isn't new technology).

 

On the BMW 700/800 engines instead of providing a water pump that doesn't seep fluid BMW instead adds a plastic drain line to the water pump vent to allow the seepage to exit under the motorcycle. The drain tube first came out as a service bulletin retro-fit & now is just added from the factory during production build. (I guess if you can't see it seeping it must be OK)

 

Amazing .... isn't that like giving a homeowner a pan to catch the water from the leaky roof vs fixing the roof?

 

Morning RTinNC

 

 

Yes, pretty darn close anyhow. Only difference is BMW probably charges extra for the pan.

 

HA ... but I bet the pan as a roundel on it !

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My personal theory is that if you get a new wethead and the water pump doesn't leak you are good to go. If it leaks, you've got continuing problems. I've got 16,000 miles on my RS and looks like I'll get a 4th water pump. I ride with 7-8 other wetheads and I am the only one with leaks.

 

Frank

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I have to say my Weep was that a few drops.

 

No level drop perceived in the reservoir. Although I did go to a BMW car dealer and buy a gallon.

 

At 418 miles I had this weep.jpg

 

Never saw it again. My Service Manager said to leave it go. He said the same exact part from the parts pipeline are going into your bike. He said nothing changes on the part so why rip the front of your brand new motor apart? He said give it a few thousand miles and see if it does it again. Never did/has.

 

If you have more then that coming out of the weep hole to me it would need addressed. That is weep in my picture, a one time event, if you had more, and every/most time you took it out I would have insisted.

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  • 2 months later...

OK ... so after seeing the leak 3 times (note I only have 900 miles on the new RT but that will change when I retire next month!) and telling my service manager. (note he never saw it but I told him I had photos of each time) He had the tech check and they are going to replace the pump. Did not have time to get if done on Saturday but will schedule appt. in next few weeks. He said they have never seen one leak after they replace the pump. Like I said I have an GREAT dealer.

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Let us know how it goes.

 

I would think at this time the water pumps in the system are "new" or a corrected version?

 

I only had that one instance at 418 miles and never again.

 

I still have not heard the true issue. I have seen people said it was the seal. And have heard that is not a traditional seal and think I read it was ceramic? And I have read it was machining where that seal sits. So as I say I have no true idea of what the issue is. I also do not understand the self heals like mine and many others? I have read the 1600 ate them like M&M's.

 

I was also told that if they leak and continue to at 5K, BMW will replace them no issue if you insist. That is what my service manager said to me is the bottom line, worst dealer service experience. Like I said mine would have done it no problem but said to wait. I am very happy I did. Of course there is quite a difference in a weep and leak.

 

At any rate I am happy you are getting squared away on it. Maybe the dealer or tech can give you an idea of what the issue is/was or if they see anything while in there?

 

 

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I won't say to not replace the pump. I will say that from all I have read, there is a VERY GOOD chance your pump will stop leaking sooner than later. Personally, I would rather not tear into an engine for a water pump. There is no guarantee the new one won't leak, that has already been documented. Hopz has been through this, probably has more input on it from other owners than most anyone. Maybe someone else can say for sure, but I was under the impression that the water pump design has NOT been changed?

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Dealer and riding buddies all tell me their experience is that once the pump is replaced they have not seen one leak. Like I said I trust my dealer as they have always done me right. They have also replaced a number of them.

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n the other hand, most riders who have had a leaking pump says it stops leaking! That means no one tampers with your bike and so less chance for scratches, dings, and more riding time. Win, win, win.

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n the other hand, most riders who have had a leaking pump says it stops leaking! That means no one tampers with your bike and so less chance for scratches, dings, and more riding time. Win, win, win.

 

I totally agree and as anal as I am that is a concern for me too. But as I said my dealer is really good.

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OK ... OK .... OK ... based on all the "expert" feedback I just made an appt. with my dealer for some other stuff but told him I'd like to give the pump another couple 1000 miles before we swap it out. He was fine with that but if it still is a problem he'd be happy to swap it. Once I get retired in 5 weeks I will be adding considerable miles to the RT :thumbsup:

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I think you made a good choice. Still leaves replacement as an option.

Go out and put some miles on it. Everything I see about this tells me it is likely to totally quit seeping ( really not a full blown leak ). At any rate, never heard of one losing enough coolant to be any issue.

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I'm joining the chorus with my 2015 RT. I had a few drops at my first real service (6k.) I took pics, and asked the dealer to document my complaint. Now I'm closing in on 30k and haven't seen a drop since, including some pretty spirited riding. So this pretty much echos the others in here. It's disconcerting at first, but then it goes away.

 

-MKL

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I'm joining the chorus with my 2015 RT. I had a few drops at my first real service (6k.) I took pics, and asked the dealer to document my complaint. Now I'm closing in on 30k and haven't seen a drop since, including some pretty spirited riding. So this pretty much echos the others in here. It's disconcerting at first, but then it goes away.

 

-MKL

 

I am counting on it!! But being as anal as I am I carry my spray polish and check at each stop ... HA!! But taking photos of any leaks. Will keep you posted.

 

Thanks all. I will work on being patient. The good news is I can't see the drips when riding!!

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My bike has only 5000 miles and came back to me from the dealer like the picture below, took it back to them, they said they could not find anything??? I have it well documented and I will be keeping my eye on it I think.

 

 

IMG_0966.jpg

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My bike has only 5000 miles and came back to me from the dealer like the picture below, took it back to them, they said they could not find anything??? I have it well documented and I will be keeping my eye on it I think.

 

 

IMG_0966.jpg

Have you check the coolant and oil levels?

That doesn't look anything like Coolant to me.

 

Jay

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That does not look like coolant. Seems to be an oil leak that has collected dirt. Whatever it is, I'd find another dealer to work on my bike and refer the old dealer to my optometrist.

Edited by lkraus
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I agree with the others ,likely not coolant does look like oil. I'd document it with a photo then clean it off and see if it happens again, I'd also be looking for a new dealer .

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The shaft that drives the water pump has a water seal on one side of the "weep hole" and an oil seal on the other side. The oil seal is leaking or was leaking. Either coolant or engine oil can weep out that hole.

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My bike has only 5000 miles and came back to me from the dealer like the picture below, took it back to them, they said they could not find anything??? I have it well documented and I will be keeping my eye on it I think.

 

 

IMG_0966.jpg

 

Out of all the comments made on leaking water pumps, yours is the ONLY one I would really endorse you pursue. This looks like an issue that needs resolving. Whether it be a leaky exhaust, seeping head gasket, or oil migrating from that hole - for sure it needs investigating.

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On my new 2017 GS, I have a few drops coming out of this little nipple above the oil filter.

 

IMG_4229%20Custom_zpswwy6gahm.jpg

 

IMG_4230%20Custom_zpsxcdkpymp.jpg

 

I do not see the weep hole that is shown above on my motor.

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On my new 2017 GS, I have a few drops coming out of this little nipple above the oil filter.

 

I do not see the weep hole that is shown above on my motor.

 

Evening Doug

 

I wonder if BMW is taking the BMW 800 approach. They can't seem to completely stop the seeping on the

800 so they added a press-in fitting to the pump chamber weep hole then added a drain tube down under

the engine.

 

Might be that fitting you have shown is trying to drip the weeping fluid onto the hot oil filter then

evaporate off from there. (leaves no stains on the engine block)

 

Easy next move would be to add a drain tube if they keep getting rider complaints about the seeping.

 

The 800's drip a bit for a while then it seems to go away with little or no lowering if the coolant level.

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I just talked to a mechanic friend at the dealer where I bought my bike and he said yes that is the new weep hole for the water pump. So they must've redesigned the cases somehow, sometime .

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"Out of sight- out of mind". Looks like it will be harder to see under there. Just add a drain tube and you will have water pump "bliss".

 

For the record, I am into my FOURTH leaking water pump in a year and 20,000 miles on my RS. My BMW Tech says he doesn't want to change out another- so it's now up to BMWNA. Fingers crossed for a 2017 engine that doesn't leak coolant.

 

Frank

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Is it really such a big deal? Most vehicle s have breathers for things like oil that dump it into the airbox. If you could see it, would you all be demanding a new engine? The amount of fluid in nearly every case has been trace. Almost in the realms of condensation.

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Is it really such a big deal? Most vehicle s have breathers for things like oil that dump it into the airbox. If you could see it, would you all be demanding a new engine? The amount of fluid in nearly every case has been trace. Almost in the realms of condensation.

 

Morning Andy

 

To some riders it is a big deal & it just shouldn't be happening on a $25,000+ (USD) motorcycle.

 

If the oil breather dripped oil down the outside of the engine & left semi permanent stains then riders would be all over that also.

 

My Hondas don't drip coolant, my Ducati doesn't drip coolant out the weep hole, for sure my new automobiles don't drip coolant out of the weep hole, so why should a new modern BMW motorcycle do it?

 

If BMW doesn't have enough engineering talent to be able to stop the seep then they should hire some that do.

 

Or include a pleasant looking drain line to at least drain the bloody drippings down under the motorcycle away from the engine case & out of sight. (that's what BMW did on the BMW 800)

 

About every BMW meeting or gathering that I go to the big joke is the obvious signs of coolant dripping (or old stains there of) on the new water cooled high dollar BMW's. I'll bet a day doesn't go by that some BMW 1200WC rider isn't getting the obvious coolant leak pointed out to them when someone looks at their new bike.

 

How about if I installed a new kitchen sink in your new house & it dripped a little fluid underneath every time that you used it (would you accept that?)

 

Bottom line here: It just shouldn't be happening on an up-level priced modern motorcycle.

 

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Bottom line here: It just shouldn't be happening on an up-level priced modern motorcycle.
My view exactly. This leak is not a deal breaker on my bike. I ride with up to 8 other wetheads and mine is the only one with this problem. Pump #3 went almost 10,000 miles without leaking, but then it started leaking very consistently. Coolant level went down almost 2 inches in the next 3000 miles. I don't worry that it will spew all the coolant out and leave me stranded- but it COULD happen. Pump #4 seeped the first time the bike fired after the change and hasn't slowed in the 3000 miles since. It shows up very well on the black painted engine.

 

I am within Texas Lemon Law criteria but don't want to press that yet.

 

Frank

Edited by duckbubbles
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so far I am one of the lucky ones on my 14Rt with nary a drip.

 

I'm curious DR what you might think the source of the drip is..poor milling/mating, poor pump like the old 60 series chevy's and their bad rubber leaking out the weep hole, too much pressure or ??????

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so far I am one of the lucky ones on my 14Rt with nary a drip.

 

I'm curious DR what you might think the source of the drip is..poor milling/mating, poor pump like the old 60 series chevy's and their bad rubber leaking out the weep hole, too much pressure or ??????

 

Afternoon David

 

Without running extended tests & disassembled parts inspections it is only guessing but most similar auto pump seeping issues are seal material/design related.

 

BMW has had enough water pump seal seepage issues lately to sort of tell us that is possibly a trade off of (hopefully) long pump life vs some early seepage until full seal seat-in.

 

Personally it wouldn't bother me too much IF the pump seal seeps a bit for a 1000 miles or so as long as the seepage is funneled away from hot engine parts that show the stains. Anything longer than that is pointing to a definite design/material issue.

 

Where BMW REALLY dropped the ball is in how they handle the seepage & even more in how they failed to educate the consumer on how long is a NORMAL seepage event. BMW also needs to positively define at what point the seepage goes from normal to excessive, & by what point it should be completely gone.

 

If the riders manual had a statement that said pump seepage is expected for the first 800 miles & should be completely gone by 1000 miles then I think BMW riders would accept that. Riders would then also have a go/no-go gauge to judge IF MY PERSONAL motorcycle was normal or has problem.

 

I guess the way I look at it is: if I provide a product that is going to leak for a while then I should at least be smart enough to have that leak not show clearly defined stains on a visible part of the engine.

 

I have never understood BMW's head-in-sand attitude of, if they deny or don't acknowledge a problem then allow the dealers to put a kiss/ pat on the ass spin on it that riders will accept it.

 

Where BMW is REALLY missing things is that the majority of BMW motorcycle buyers are intelligent enough to research things, or at least question something that doesn't seem right & proper.

 

 

 

 

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Mine is a very early 2014 R1200RT-LC

It's one of the bikes that was on the 1st shipment coming into this country.

It has never ever leaked, not even a hint of a drop.

It's been ridden hard on occasions and it was written when the temps had hit 40+ degree Celsius over here. (That was NOT fun). Despite that the ride from work was just 30km or 25 minutes, it was enough for it to sit idling at a stop sign for a good 10 minutes and was run as hard as I could in higher revs on that occasion. I was looking to see if could force the leak as reported, by running it in more severe condition.

Again not a drop.

So this issue doesn't look to me like a design fault, but rather an assembling/quality control issue at the factory.

 

I know this doesn't help the poor buggers effected by this issue who look at their brand new expensive bike and see coolant stains on them.....and yes I feel for you.

 

What I am trying to convey is that this doesn't appear to be a design flaw as the very 1st Wetheads had the same occasional issue while the absolute majority had no problem.

Plus that even now 3 years on, we still appear to be getting this occasional problem on new bikes.

 

BMW should have resolved this issue by now for sure. I will not be surprised if there won't be a bulletin in the future that give very specific replacement/installation instructions, which will resolve the problem once and for all.

Lets hope this happens sooner rather then later.

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Mine "wept" numerous times until 4 k. After that, nada.

 

Is it a design issue, probably. Would you accept that from your new automobile, probably not. Would BMW officially advise consumers, nope. That would be accepting liability, something that obligates them to fix ALL the bikes, as in recall. Is it a safety issue requiring a recall, not until suit is brought upon them or fault is admitted by factory, or even govt intervention.

 

Is it all stupid, yes. Will they ever deal with issues like this in a riders manual, no.

 

Standard operating business practice.

 

Do any of us like it, no.

 

Will any of us stop buying BMW motorcycles, maybe. :dopeslap:

 

MB>

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