2003 1150Rt stopped running

I have the original dual electrode plugs that are no longer in the bike but were good when removed. Probably too tricky to set the gap that large for testing I suppose. I have a bunch of new automotive plugs - will those be adequate for testing? I can install the original factory plugs when we arrive at the point to attempt to start. 40 miles round trip to a parts store! I assume that I should do the Noid light check on both injectors....

I have been printing your great directions and follow them most carefully. I will roll it outside and have a hose on and 2 extinguishers at the ready. When I had a bit of a scare last week it was in my garage next to 2 bikes,2 cars and a nearly full five gallon gas can 20 feet away....NOT REAL SMART!

Does fuel gradually evaporate from the cat? Easy way to drain it? Will the raw gas screw up the oxygen sensor? Thanks for your valuable time and expertise! Hal

I have the original dual electrode plugs that are no longer in the bike but were good when removed. Probably too tricky to set the gap that large for testing I suppose. I have a bunch of new automotive plugs - will those be adequate for testing? I can install the original factory plugs when we arrive at the point to attempt to start. 40 miles round trip to a parts store! I assume that I should do the Noid light check on both injectors....

I have been printing your great directions and follow them most carefully. I will roll it outside and have a hose on and 2 extinguishers at the ready. When I had a bit of a scare last week it was in my garage next to 2 bikes,2 cars and a nearly full five gallon gas can 20 feet away....NOT REAL SMART!

 

Does fuel gradually evaporate from the cat? Easy way to drain it? Will the raw gas screw up the oxygen sensor? Thanks for your valuable time and expertise!

Morning Hal

Those automotive spark plugs will be just fine.

Fuel will eventually evaporate from the cat but will take a very long time.

The o2 sensor probably won't work correctly for a while until it & the cat gets hot enough to burn off the remaining fuel.

The BEST (safest) way to drain the cat & muffler is to remove the rear exhaust then tip it up & drain it (or at least verify there is no remaining fuel in it. (If you decide to do this be sure to unplug the o2 sensor & make sure the sensor pig tail is free to come out) OR get some slack in the o2 sensor wire pig tail then unscrew the o2 sensor from the pipe but this will put a lot of twists in the o2 sensor pig tail & personally I don't like to do that)

You should first try the that noid light on the R/H side as that seemed to be the leading side for excess fuel blowing out.

Both side injectors are on the very same power supply & are triggered at the same time so SHOULD be doing the same thing at the same time. But yes you should eventually test both sides.

Noid light stays on 100% while engine is cranking on BOTH sides. Spark jumped across huge nickel/2 penny gap. Not blue but orange with still enough to jump that huge gap.

Now for the sorta bad news. When installing the plugs,the left side felt a little weird....after pulling the plug back out to make sure no cross threading was happening I totally panicked when the electrodes were crushed and the insulator broken. It seemed as if the plug was grinding into the piston crown. In shock and disgust I left it and had lunch to calm down and start thinking heli coil thoughts.

I returned to the garage and peered into both plug holes and realized that the one in the left cyl. had a stuck compression tester adapter in it. What a GIANT relief!! Removed valve cover and tried to get it out but it is screwed in very tight because I installed a plug in it quite firmly. So I blew it out with compressed air and washed it down with contact cleaner and used a brand new plug and applied blue Loctite to the threads and screwed it into the adapter very firmly. Gonna let it sit overnight and try to remove it tomorrow. If it does not come out with the plug I suppose I will try red Loctite next. Are we having fun yet?

Evening Hal

Noid light stays on 100% while engine is cranking on BOTH sides. Spark jumped across huge nickel/2 penny gap. Not blue but orange with still enough to jump that huge gap.--I was afraid we might find that. That is bad news as it gets very difficult to diagnose without parts to swap in as a test. (might be a bad Motronic, or a bad injection input from the HES, or the Motronic is getting some input causing it to command a very rich injection).

Spark sounds OK -- I would like to see a bit more blue but even orange jumping that large gap will fire it off under compression OK.

I returned to the garage and peered into both plug holes and realized that the one in the left cyl. had a stuck compression tester adapter in it. What a GIANT relief!! Removed valve cover and tried to get it out but it is screwed in very tight because I installed a plug in it quite firmly. So I blew it out with compressed air and washed it down with contact cleaner and used a brand new plug and applied blue Loctite to the threads and screwed it into the adapter very firmly. Gonna let it sit overnight and try to remove it tomorrow. If it does not come out with the plug I suppose I will try red Loctite next. ---I hope the Loctite does the trick, if not then you have the Red & even the Green (609).

Look for next reply below for next tests.

Evening Hal

Post#2

You will probably have to get that compression insert out to move on so get that out first then post back.

In the mean time un-plug that coil power connector again.

Once you get that compression adapter out I have one more short test to run then we will have to figure out how to determine why those injectors are commanded to 100%.

I do have something for you to do while waiting for the Loctite to cure.

Remove fuse #5 (5th one in from the shifter side of bike) for about 30 minutes-- then reinstall it-- then turn key-on (do not try to start engine, just key-on)-- then FULLY open & close the throttle twice-- then just turn key-off -- This will re-set the Motronic & re-teach the throttle position-- That's it until you get that adapter out.

Compression tester adapter came out very easily. Going down to unplug coi/remove #5/wait 30 min. perform throttle procedure and re-install valve cover.

Compression tester adapter came out very easily. Going down to unplug coi/remove #5/wait 30 min. perform throttle procedure and re-install valve cover.

Afternoon Hal

OK, ready to move on--

Be sure that you did the #5 fuse removal-replace then key-on & twist grip to wide open two times!

Make sure that coil power plug is disconnected & noid light is installed (correct polarity) in one of the injector plugs. (if no fuel spraying out of spark plug holes then leave spark plugs out)

First test is to turn key-on, then hold twist grip wide open (wide open throttle) then give engine a short crank while watching the noid light (is it on__off__or flashing?)-- This should hopefully check that the clear-flood-enable is working.

Next test = spark plugs removed, coil disconnected, noid light installed , twist grip back to idle position-- Put trans is 6th gear (you might have to rotate rear wheel back & forth while shifting to get it all the way to 6th gear. MAKES SURE THAT SIDE STAND IS IN THE UP POSITION

Now turn key-on & spin/bump rear wheel in forward direction while watching the noid light. (hopefully you can slowly turn engine over using rear wheel) -- if you can't spin engine then you will have to remove the front belt cover then use the bolt on the front lower belt pulley to spin engine over. (does the noid light go on & off, or stay on, or flicker, etc) --hopefully this will test the HES injection side triggering.

Per your coil test we know the spark side of the HES is working OK.

Wife has had me working my tail off pulling up a stump. My knees say to call it a day. I'm printing your very clear directions Dirtrider for tomorrow's effort.

I was running Autolite 3923's previously and got a new set today. My old ones that had been in the bike for at least 10K looked great. I like 'em to look a tiny bit rich. MPG of only 35 and just a very,very,very slight surge at just over 3K RPM when you are trying to make it surge. I know there is a black art to the Mystery of Plug Gapping 3923's - everything from 30 to 40. Keep in mind that the Techlusion is going back on and I will check to see if spark is better with these 3923's than the plugs I used for the gap test. The plugs I used for the 3/16" gap spark test were new plugs that fit a Hemi and if you remember the spark was orange and not a super hot one IMHO. Again,THANK YOU!

Noid light stays on continuosly on both sides while turning engine over,same as before.

Turned motor over using back wheel method and left side injector plug with Noid came on/off briefly and brightly as the wheel turned-did not flicker or flash intermittently. Did not try the right side - should I? Thanks!

Noid light stays on continuosly on both sides while turning engine over,same as before.

 

Turned motor over using back wheel method and left side injector plug with Noid came on/off briefly and brightly as the wheel turned-did not flicker or flash intermittently. Did not try the right side - should I?

Afternoon Hal

No need to test the other side.

Can you say how much ON vs how much OFF?

I'm trying to figure out appx. how long the light comes on during on complete engine revolution.

Does it seem to stay off longer than it stays on during a revolution?

Hey Dirtrider -- stays off mostly during a revolution - have to fiddle with the wheel to find just the right spot to get it to come on - not difficult,though

Hey Dirtrider -- stays off mostly during a revolution - have to fiddle with the wheel to find just the right spot to get it to come on - not difficult,though

Evening Hal

OK, this is normal & shows us the HES injector hall switch is working (switching) OK & that the Motronic is switching the injector driver transistors.

I'm just a bit puzzled by the noid light staying on continually during engine cranking-- I wonder if that LED that you are using is not responding fast enough? Personally I use a real fuel injection noid light (from a Snap-On noid light kit). You would think that about any LED would respond quick enough to do the job but something not matching between the cranking noid light action & the hand turn noid light action.

Let me think on this for a while & I will post more below later.

Evening Hal

I still don't understand the hand crank noid light operation seeming normal but the electric cranking noid light staying on continuous.

I hate to do this but I can't think of another way with the diagnostic tools that you have.

SO- coil disconnected, fuel pump hooked up, #5 fuse installed, hoses off the lower TB nipples, spark plugs removed.

Hook up (plug in) only the R/H fuel injector, throttle at idle, then crank engine for 2 seconds (one thousand one, one thousand two). Then see if any fuel blows out of spark plug hole or runs out of R/H lower TB nipple after cranking. (lets see if it is still over fueling)

DR,

If, and I certainly hope they do, our paths cross, please allow me the pleasure of buying you a round of your choice.

Or two...

Dirtrider Will do tomorrow. I know I sound like a broken record...BUT....thank you SO much. You are very kind to go through all the trouble to help me out! How did you acquire all this knowledge? You must have helped many riders in my unfortunate situation. Are you a BMW Motorrad Technician?

Assuming you are using one of the radioshack 12V LEDs I listed a while back, I used them on an Early '90s Chevy TBI engine. I had them on long leads running into the cab so I could watch the injectors flicker on and off while driving to see if they were cutting out when it would stall. They worked fine for that purpose and you could see the flickering speed up and slow down with RPM.

Yes it is a Radio Shack Noid light and I must say it is working very well. It is very bright and makes it very clear as to what is happening. Now I'm off to do my daily assignment.

Yes I have repeated this test several times and the light is very bright and continuously on and no flickering or change without a doubt. Interesting side note: when I release the starter button the light stays on for perhaps a hal-second or so - does not go out instantaneously,probably means nothing...

Yes I have repeated this test several times and the light is very bright and continuously on and no flickering or change without a doubt. Interesting side note: when I release the starter button the light stays on for perhaps a hal-second or so - does not go out instantaneously,probably means nothing...

Afternoon Hal

It shouldn't be doing that.

You might try connecting that LED directly to a 12v battery then make & break the connection a few times quickly to see how fast it responds.

I repeated injector noid light test and noticed that when the key is turned on the light glows brightly for a FULL second and then goes out. When I depress the starter button the light stays on. When I release the button the light stays on for a FULL second.

I did the 2 second turnover and no fuel shot out of the rt. side plug hole. I repeated and got a bit,then on the 3rd try it shot out all over my concrete wall.

I'm off to the orthopedic surgeon today for injections...might help with all this up and down activity in the garage. LOL Hal

OK-tested light on bike battery and the light responds extremely QUICKLY-goes off instantly when disconnected,too. I believe that the light is working perfectly-nice bright -no flickering or guess work-works great.

Can you post a picture of how you have the noid light hooked up to the injector?

Did you happen to get two of them and have one hooked up to each injector so you can see if both sides are acting the same?

Have you verifed that with the key on, you always have 12v+ from the hot pin on the the injector plug to ground, that the 12V+ doesn't go away after a second? If you haven't, check this to a good, constant ground, not the switching pin on the injector plug.

Afternoon Hal

We're getting too many cooks in the kitchen here. Your problem is too complex to have have 2 posters taking you in different troubleshooting directions so I will step aside as it looks like rxcrider wants to take over & work with you to solve your over-fueling issue.

sent a pm

I as well

Well, I hope normal service resumes as soon as possible, because I am enjoying watching this strange web of issues being untangled.

Andy

Well, I hope normal service resumes as soon as possible, because I am enjoying watching this strange web of issues being untangled.

Morning Andy

It has gone to PM for a while but we will bring it back as soon as we get a smooth troubleshooting flow back going again. Or I will just put some updates on this thread as we find (or don't find) the root of the problem.

The problem now stands that is looks a LOT like a failed Motronic but without a (known good) Motronic to stick in we have to try to systematically eliminate all the other possibilities that could cause a good working Motronic to over-fuel.

Please disregard post #982902 above regarding a constant 12V+ at the injector. My memory of the wiring diagram was flawed and I started dragging you down the wrong diagnostic path. Sorry for the misdirect. I'll send a request for the admin to delete my last 3 posts in this thread to avoid causing confusion for a future reader.

Thanks all! Taking a break and going PM for a while.....Hal

Please disregard post #982902 above regarding a constant 12V+ at the injector. My memory of the wiring diagram was flawed and I started dragging you down the wrong diagnostic path. Sorry for the misdirect. I'll send a request for the admin to delete my last 3 posts in this thread to avoid causing confusion for a future reader.

Let's not delete it, but rather strike through some text. Sometimes deleting entire posts in a thread kind of screws up the flow and causes even more confusion.

IT'S ALIVE!! DR continued to advise me and was so helpful and patient in giving me such clear directions and answering all my questions. A new/used Motronic did the trick. I'm leaving the Techlusion off since it may be faulty and quite possibly contributed to the Motronic failure at such low mileage. AF-XIED on the way to replace the Techlusion. THANKS DR!!

Another example of members helping members!

AF-XIED on the way. Tested my Techlusion briefly and it works well as always. Still going to upgrade to the NightRider product from Beemer Boneyard.

GOOD JOB, hal26!!

The Doctor's (D.R. or DirtRider as he prefers) experience, knowledge, and patience is demonstrated once again.