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Oregon SB 385


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The short and long of it is I don't care if you lane split that's your choice where it's legal or even where it's not as far as i'm concerned. I know I'll never have occasion to do it because of where I live being 60 miles from the closest interstate and I never ride I5 especially in the Portland area. If I'm going to Portland to visit I always drive my very fast Mustang 5.0 so no problemo.

 

The main thing that concerns me is the possibility that some cage drivers might be so pissed off by lane splitters that they take out their frustrations on the rest of us. Other than that I care less. Also, SB 385 is a ways away from passing if it ever does anyway.

 

Think I'll take a ride before the next warm front rolls ashore. You Californians enjoy your somewhat crowded life.

Edited by JamesW
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All I'm saying is if a motorcyclist makes a decision to lane split then that motorcyclist needs to accept the possible consequences for his actions 100%.

 

That's the way splitting in California was in the 80s. The stories of drivers opening their car door to stop a motorcycle from passing began then. At the very least car drivers could swerve into a splitting bike and not be ticketed. Why in the world would you think such behavior is acceptable, let alone encourage it by removing any recourse available to motorcyclists?

 

The motorcyclist has a choice to lane split or not. If he chooses not to increase his risk factor good for him for having a brain if he chooses the more risky option then the burden for his actions should be his alone. One should assume responsibility for one's actions. In our society this concept has become somewhat forgotten hence all these ridiculous civil suits. Also, I in no way condone any deliberate action by any motorist to intentionally cause harm to any living thing that being people or any other specie. The key word here is deliberate.

 

And now I am going for that ride. :wave:

 

Edited by JamesW
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One should assume responsibility for one's actions.

 

I think you're being disingenuous.

 

No sir. I believe he is being honest. He thinks lane splitting is wrong and if the splitter is involved in an accident, the splitter should be at fault.

 

This may wash for Oregon, but not California. An automobile or other vehicle may be at fault.

 

Like Marty said, he won't let go.

 

But as a responsible member of the motorcycle community, he needs more education

on the subject. Or perhaps an on site tour. I'd be happy to escort him through traffic

for a first hand look. Then perhaps he could make a reasonable decision on the subject.

But seeing as how he stays well away from any city, that wouldn't be possible. His choice.

More power to him.

 

My life isn't that simple. But I can tell you, when I visit Oregon, which I frequently do, I sure wish I could ride safer in traffic. ;)

 

MB>

 

 

 

 

 

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Trust me, I'm letting go. Honest, you can take my word on it I've positively absolutely let go. Admin should probably close this thread which would be fine with me.

 

 

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Dennis Andress

One should assume responsibility for one's actions.

 

I think you're being disingenuous.

 

 

 

I'll play devil's advocate for a moment...

 

In places where lane splitting is new:

 

1.) Many people will feel that lane splitting is dangerous and wrong. There's no changing their feelings about it.

 

2.) Many people will freak out when a motorcycle splits past them. Some of them will cause an accident, either out of fear, or envy.

 

That's kind of what I experienced 20 or 30 years ago. In many ways lane splitting in California is successful because a generation or two of riders and car drivers grew up together on the freeways.

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One should assume responsibility for one's actions.

 

I think you're being disingenuous.

 

No sir. I believe he is being honest. He thinks lane splitting is wrong and if the splitter is involved in an accident, the splitter should be at fault.

 

I agree that James views lane splitting as so egregious that anyone who does it - even where legal - is already at fault and has no rights. If involved in an accident, no matter how clearly others are at fault - it's the splitters fault for engaging in the legal right to lane split. If this line of reasoning is valid - pray tell, where does it end?

 

This is NOT an example "accepting the consequences of your actions".

 

And in this case, this is a oxymoron.

 

One should assume responsibility for one's actions. In our society this concept has become somewhat forgotten hence all these ridiculous civil suits.

Edited by workin' them angels
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He is a one trick pony and the trick isn't working. It's always so much fun to be lectured by someone who has no understanding of the subject being discussed.

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Yup, I'm a one trick pony on this subject, you're right. Thanks for giving me something to do while the rain pours down and that something is to write my state representatives and encourage a NO vote on SB 385 if and when it comes up for a vote.

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I don't have a problem with lane splitting, might not be for me but.. If you look at this bill it will only allow splitting on highways with two or more lanes in the same direction and a posted speed of 50mph or above and the traffic is moving at 10 mph or less. Still the MC will only be allowed to travel at a maximum of 20mph. That is a limited demographic area this will be applied to. It is not going to affect city streets because the posted speeds are less than the allowable. Won't affect where I live because we don't have two lanes. I don't see you able to split other than on the freeway when traffic is almost at a stand still. Doesn't seem that it is allowing much but ought to work if the cages don't freak out.

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I don't have a problem with lane splitting, might not be for me but.. If you look at this bill it will only allow splitting on highways with two or more lanes in the same direction and a posted speed of 50mph or above and the traffic is moving at 10 mph or less. Still the MC will only be allowed to travel at a maximum of 20mph. That is a limited demographic area this will be applied to. It is not going to affect city streets because the posted speeds are less than the allowable. Won't affect where I live because we don't have two lanes. I don't see you able to split other than on the freeway when traffic is almost at a stand still. Doesn't seem that it is allowing much but ought to work if the cages don't freak out.

 

I think we've gotten off track. The post I'm quoting is the first one that seems to be heading us back to where this discussion needs to be. Thank you for that. This exchange should not primarily be about what we like and don't like, although those opinions are fine. It's more about the merits of lane splitting, whether it provides a safer space for motorcyclists, reduces congestion for all, and whether the driving public will see that and make room.

 

For me, it works in CA and it works throughout Europe, it works along the Pacific Rim, in South Africa and other locations globally. If anything, the USA lags behind the world in the acceptance of lane splitting (or filtering, as it is referred to elsewhere). Sure, anything new takes some getting used to, so the truth remains to be seen.

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OK let's forget lane splitting...

 

How about designated lanes for motorcycles only.

 

I'm sure we'd all go for that. But then they would be so very narrow, and we'd all have to filter past each other...

 

:eek:

 

MB>

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OK let's forget lane splitting...

 

How about designated lanes for motorcycles only.

 

I'm sure we'd all go for that. But then they would be so very narrow, and we'd all have to filter past each other...

 

:eek:

 

MB>

 

I could see instances where shoulder riding could be allowed.

 

A question i have about lane splitting: What do you do when you are approaching an exit you wish to take and you are lane splitting? Do the cage drivers make a hole for you and allow you access to the exit or do they bunch up and prevent you from taking the exit? i have an idea what would happen in the Portland area and it wouldn't be pretty. I really don't think filtering in these parts would bring out warm and fuzzy feelings toward us two wheel types by cagers. This is my main objection to allowing filtering in Oregon. There has been over the years a certain animosity toward out of state drivers particularly those from the sunny southland if you know what I mean. Several times I have seen folks from CA raising hell at a gas station because they aren't allowed to pump their own gas in Oregon. Now, isn't that just a bit over the top? I mean who wants to stand in a pouring rain just to pump your own gas? Not I said the fly. Californians need to learn that when in Rome do as the Romans do.

 

I can't see how lane splitting in Oregon is going to help anyone especially in the blood pressure control area among cagers. I can just see it now, some overweight piece of humanity lane splitting away on his racket emitting HOG in heavy Portland traffic. Good luck with that.

 

I5 through and approaching the Portland metro area isn't designed for motorcycles to ride between cars as in narrow lanes like you find in the Terwiliger curves area. SB 385 is just a can of worms waiting to be opened. I'll be the first to say it, Oregon drivers aren't always the most courteous folks on the road, just how it is. Around here we have passing lanes where people speed up when others are attempting to pass. This leads to bad situations just as the passing lane is ending. Highway 126 between Florence and Eugene is a death trap. The speed limit is 55 mph but there are those that desire to travel at speeds up to 70 mph. Do the numbers, if it's 60 miles to Eugene how much time do you save at 65 mph over just relaxing and doing the 55 mph speed limit? now ask yourself: Is it really worth it? I've been driving 126 for over 35 years and I've seen it all. I volunteer to drive a twenty passenger bus from Florence to Eugene that transports cancer patients for treatment. This is a responsibility I don't take lightly nor do my fellow drivers. Passing multiple cars over double yellow lines is rampant on 126 and so are motorcycle deaths especially in summer months. Western Oregon highway infrastructure is taxed to the limits because of the huge population increase that has occurred in very recent years. Allowing lane splitting in Oregon will just worsen this problem particularly at this time.

Edited by JamesW
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They have tried to put lane splitting in Washington several times but never have success. Personally I don't know if I would use it much but I'd like to see made legal to do so.

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Paving and striping shoulders for motorcycles only in certain congested localities is a sensible and safer idea for all concerned than lane splitting -- with a shoulder speed limit of say 20mph.

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I could see instances where shoulder riding could be allowed.

 

A question i have about lane splitting: What do you do when you are approaching an exit you wish to take and you are lane splitting? Do the cage drivers make a hole for you and allow you access to the exit or do they bunch up and prevent you from taking the exit? i have an idea what would happen in the Portland area and it wouldn't be pretty. I really don't think filtering in these parts would bring out warm and fuzzy feelings toward us two wheel types by cagers. This is my main objection to allowing filtering in Oregon.

 

 

How is needing to exit any different for a bike vs a car? :dontknow::dontknow::S

 

 

 

 

 

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Afternoon Dave, I would say a car is a lot different in that the car would not have been lane splitting to get ahead (irritation factor) and cage drivers naturally relate more to fellow cage drivers as in I'm as big as you. Let's face it, more than one cage operator has been irritated by a motorcyclist. We won't mention brands of bikes here. :rofl: Actually Dave your question and my answer makes my whole point, thank you.

 

If lane splittings works in CA I say that's great but that doesn't mean it will be as effective and especially safe everywhere. There would naturally be a learning curve and during that period of time it would most likely not be very pretty particularly in OR or, for that matter, even WA, imo.

 

The more I think about it the more I think shoulder riding might work on 4 or more lane limited access roads especially with good signage and striping. On a 4 lane road the inside shoulder could be used for thru motorcycle traffic. There would be hazards like disabled cars but at slow speed (20 mph) the motorcyclist would have time to stop and wait for an opportunity to merge back into traffic and get around the obstacle.

Edited by JamesW
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When cars are stopped, I keep going. No matter what state or type of road. My bike is air cooled and will keep moving if there is any room. Yes, I've had a driver object once but I managed to convince him to get back in his car.

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Dennis Andress

James, please try to think of splitting as a way of reducing risk. On its own, the time savings do not make splitting worthwhile. Remember the picture of the license plate I posted a few days ago? That was my wife heading off to work. That's how safe splitting is.

 

Yes, there will be irritated cagers, (and nobody but the owner likes a loud motorcycle). Trust me, over time it'll work out for the better.

 

Riding on the shoulder is a good way to get a flat tire.

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I don't trust cage drivers anywhere in any state. When I was in California last summer, most of the filterers were running 35 -45 mph between lanes of stopped cars. One could argue 10-15 may be safe, but not 35-45. I won't be convinced otherwise.

 

Larry

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A question i have about lane splitting: What do you do when you are approaching an exit you wish to take and you are lane splitting? Do the cage drivers make a hole for you and allow you access to the exit or do they bunch up and prevent you from taking the exit? i have an idea what would happen in the Portland area and it wouldn't be pretty.

 

When lane splitting, it is very easy to merge back into the lanes. You just match speed with the cars and move into the space between vehicles. So, to exit, you just have to work your way across to the exit lane. It does require planning ahead but that is no different than in a car. In fact it is easier, because a motorcycle can change lanes in heavy traffic much, much more easily than a car.

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Dennis Andress
I don't trust cage drivers anywhere in any state. When I was in California last summer, most of the filterers were running 35 -45 mph between lanes of stopped cars. One could argue 10-15 may be safe, but not 35-45. I won't be convinced otherwise.

 

Larry

 

Yeah, that's crazy.

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Are there credible studies that demonstrate lane splitting reduces accidents and injury? I see a back and forth on the subject. It dangerous. It is safer. I'm a show me guy. Where's the data?

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UC Berkeley Study.

 

I had a hard time wrapping my head around the difference until I thought of the cars as industrial hammers. Would you rather be between two hammers speeding towards each other (rear end collision) or two hammers moving parallel that swerve towards each other? And, speed differential is a major determiner of injury. Which seems to be the case no matter what.

Edited by Antimatter
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szurszewski

 

 

A question i have about lane splitting: What do you do when you are approaching an exit you wish to take and you are lane splitting? Do the cage drivers make a hole for you and allow you access to the exit or do they bunch up and prevent you from taking the exit? i have an idea what would happen in the Portland area and it wouldn't be pretty.

 

In my nearly 10 years of spending all day everyday (many weeks/months of many of those years that's a literal seven days a week) driving around the Portland metro area for work to the tune of 30,000 miles a year just on my work vehicle, I can say that if you think Portland drivers are combative in that way, especially relative to other large/crowded urban areas, you have had really bad luck. Sure there are some a$$hats there, but in general they are pretty friendly to both bikes and cars - in my experience.

Edited by szurszewski
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Are there credible studies that demonstrate lane splitting reduces accidents and injury? I see a back and forth on the subject. It dangerous. It is safer. I'm a show me guy. Where's the data?

 

I have read all of the studies AMA has collected, and debated this issue intensely with Nick Haris. As a scientist, I see no credible evidence that it is safer or more dangerous. Many of the "studies" AMA has amassed do not meet scientific standard, lacking references, peer review, publication, or even credentialed authors. Some use absurd study methods and others use highly questionable data sets.

 

The most recent and widely noted studies are published and credentialed. These use data gathered by the CA Highway Patrol and off hand I forget which university, but a bona fide researcher at one of the big ones in CA authored the studies, which are well done.

 

The problem with these studies is that they do not conclude, and can not based on the data collected and study design, that splitting is safer. Nevertheless, they have been widely reported by the AMA and in widespread news accounts as concluding just that. These studies have been egregiously misrepresented, including in materials submitted to the Oregon Legislature.

 

Don't get me wrong, I split when in CA and traffic warrants. But I don't do it because I think it's safer. The Hurt report and other data available indicate that being rear-ended is the least of a motorcyclist's rational concerns. IIRC rear enders were 5% of accidents in the Hurt Report, but it's been a few years since I read it. Yet reduction of rear end collisions is the most commonly cited safety improvement noted by splitting advocates. I never see the advocates consider, however, that other types of collisions might increase when splitting.

 

The bottom line is, unless and until a proper study is done it's all down to conjecture and opinion. That is where we are today.

 

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