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F800 GT, F700 GS or another bike?


Alp Rider

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I'm getting back into biking after a few years without one. I'm lucky enough to be situated in Switzerland right now with a variety of terrain to choose from:

 

- some urban travel/commuting, stopping and starting and tram tracks to avoid

 

- countryside (meandering roads and lanes through gentle hills, forest, farmland, lakes)

 

- freeways to the surrounding countries (Germany, Austria, Italy, France)

 

- alpine pass roads (some have challenging corners, others are navigable by the Postbus)

 

Almost all paved roads are maintained to a high standard in Switzerland, but some roads have sections of gravel and gravel roads can also be encountered when visiting higher alpine locations, e.g. going 500 meters off the main road to buy cheese or wine from a farm.

 

I've tried a couple of bikes, I can sit comfortably on the F800GT and the F700GS with a lowered seat or lowered suspension+standard seat.

 

I thought the F700GS might be better when I encounter some of that gravel. It also feels a lot easier to control at slow speeds. However, the lowered seat or suspension make it less versatile: reduced carrying capacity (only 140kg), no ESA, less comfortable on longer rides and at freeway speeds.

 

Should I continue looking at either of these bikes or consider others too?

 

Will the F800GT's factory tyres be useful on dry, flat gravel surfaces? Should another tyre be considered or is it pointless and better to just get another bike for those scenarios?

 

For the tighter corners on more challenging alpine pass roads, are these bikes a good choice or should I be looking at something lighter or with a shorter wheelbase?

 

I've had an F800ST before so I know I'd be happy on the F800GT but I'd like to consider all the options before I place my bet on it.

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I'm getting back into biking after a few years without one. I'm lucky enough to be situated in Switzerland right now with a variety of terrain to choose from:

 

- some urban travel/commuting, stopping and starting and tram tracks to avoid

 

- countryside (meandering roads and lanes through gentle hills, forest, farmland, lakes)

 

- freeways to the surrounding countries (Germany, Austria, Italy, France)

 

- alpine pass roads (some have challenging corners, others are navigable by the Postbus)

 

Almost all paved roads are maintained to a high standard in Switzerland, but some roads have sections of gravel and gravel roads can also be encountered when visiting higher alpine locations, e.g. going 500 meters off the main road to buy cheese or wine from a farm.

 

I've tried a couple of bikes, I can sit comfortably on the F800GT and the F700GS with a lowered seat or lowered suspension+standard seat.

 

I thought the F700GS might be better when I encounter some of that gravel. It also feels a lot easier to control at slow speeds. However, the lowered seat or suspension make it less versatile: reduced carrying capacity (only 140kg), no ESA, less comfortable on longer rides and at freeway speeds.

 

Should I continue looking at either of these bikes or consider others too?

 

Will the F800GT's factory tyres be useful on dry, flat gravel surfaces? Should another tyre be considered or is it pointless and better to just get another bike for those scenarios?

 

For the tighter corners on more challenging alpine pass roads, are these bikes a good choice or should I be looking at something lighter or with a shorter wheelbase?

 

I've had an F800ST before so I know I'd be happy on the F800GT but I'd like to consider all the options before I place my bet on it.

 

Morning Alp Rider

 

Us U.S. or north American riders can't offer you very much as far as what bike will best meet your riding needs as our road systems & riding requirements are a lot different over here.

 

So I will just address a couple of the bikes that you are considering.

 

The 700GS is a nice lower speed commuter bike but lacks high speed comfort & is sadly lacking in good higher speed wind management. It has a limited fuel tank capacity & the engine is a bit buzzy at high speeds. It would make a great gravel road bike with the correct tires. One other downside of the 700GS is they are a real pain to do some maintenance items on. The BMW 700 GS doesn't have a cruise control option either. The upside is if you can get one cheap enough they will work & are fun to ride (especially in the gravel as you can turn the ABS off).

 

The 800GT is a bit better at higher speeds but still a parallel twin with some inherent engine buzziness. They are kind of fun to ride in the slower tight sections as they corner decently & are light enough to manhandle in the real tight stuff. Still a pain to do some of the maintenance items on. If the price is right then not a real bad choice.

 

Notice the right price mentioned above-- BMW is working on/ coming out with some new 800-900 bikes in the very near future. When they hit the market that should lower the price on the existing 700-800 bikes.

 

If you are looking at used bikes then the older BMW 700 & 800 bikes might be a good deal as they seem to have a fairly low resale value here in the U.S. (not sure about your country)

 

Just keep in mind that the existing BMW 700 & 800 parallel twins are getting kind of long in the tooth technology wise, engine isolation wise, air management wise, etc so they are well overdue for a new architecture.

 

If motorcycle test rides are offered in your area then you might go test ride some of new 700-900 bikes from BMW competing companies then test ride a current BMW offering. That could help you define what you are looking for.

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I don't think that the limited amount of gravel riding you describe would affect my choice of bike, or even my choice of tires.

 

I frequently encounter 10-15km stretches of twisty, hilly, gravel road on my R1200RT. Sometimes the gravel is well graded, sometimes not. I just keep my speed down, stay "loose" to let the bike find it's balance, and go easy on the brakes, usually staying off the front brake entirely. It can be a challenge to avoid tensing up when you first encounter a loose surface, but just slow down until practice creates confidence.

Edited by lkraus
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If they do make a new 800, I wish they'd bring back the 800R twin again. Something with a seat height down to 29 for regular seat height. 28 for low.

 

I think BMW is missing out on sales with their seat height all being up in the 31 inch range.

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If they do make a new 800, I wish they'd bring back the 800R twin again. Something with a seat height down to 29 for regular seat height. 28 for low.

 

I think BMW is missing out on sales with their seat height all being up in the 31 inch range.

 

Morning 92Merc

 

BMW does offer the 700 & 800 with both a low seat & low suspension option. I'm not sure what the seat height is with a rider sitting on it but I ride with some pretty short legged riders & they have no issues (at all) with the newer 700GS or 800GS bikes with the lowering options.

 

The downside is the lower seat isn't quite as comfortable & the lower suspension drops the ground clearance. On the upside the low suspension 800GS is still available without ESA, on the standard height suspension 800GS BMW now forces the ESA option. (I'm not sure on the 700GS)

 

Added: another plus to the 700 & 800 bikes is the fuel tank is behind & below the seat & the ABS pump is mounted very low so the fuel & brake system weight is carried low on the bike. Even though the 700 & 800 isn't all the light of a bike they move around & ride like a much lighter bike due to the lower center of gravity.

Edited by dirtrider
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Thanks for the feedback.

 

The new 800-900 bikes you mention: are you talking about the 2017 ride-by-wire models (with Euro-4 emissions compliance) or something even more advanced coming in 2018 or later?

 

The ride-by-wire models (2017 versions of F700 GS, F800 GS and F800 GT) all appear to be based on the same models that have been on the market since about 2012/2013, but fitted with the electronic throttle. Those models, of course, are based on a similar parallel twin to F800ST and other predecessors. I've tried both the 2013 and 2017 F800 GT and I've also owned an F800 ST before.

 

I've visited the US a few times and I can probably help clarify the differences:

 

- you have long straight highways. Swiss freeways are not quite as straight and not nearly as long. Crossing the whole country, Zurich to Geneva, by freeway, is about 2.5 hours. The bottom line is that most rides don't involve a lot of time on freeway. E.g. a biker will go from Zurich to Luzern (1 hour freeway) and then take local roads up into the alps.

 

- due to the terrain (hills, lakes, mountains) and the fact that many settlements here pre-date the automobile, there isn't any such thing as a long straight single lane highway here. Lot's of single lane roads that wind around and through villages with occasional roundabouts. Cows and goats are well contained fortunately, unlike Peru where I had to dodge them when riding outside Cusco.

 

- the alpine areas may be comparable to your Sierra Nevada and Yosemite with a similarly diverse range of roads.

 

 

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Thanks for the feedback.

 

The new 800-900 bikes you mention: are you talking about the 2017 ride-by-wire models (with Euro-4 emissions compliance) or something even more advanced coming in 2018 or later?

 

The ride-by-wire models (2017 versions of F700 GS, F800 GS and F800 GT) all appear to be based on the same models that have been on the market since about 2012/2013, but fitted with the electronic throttle. Those models, of course, are based on a similar parallel twin to F800ST and other predecessors. I've tried both the 2013 and 2017 F800 GT and I've also owned an F800 ST before.

 

I've visited the US a few times and I can probably help clarify the differences:

 

- you have long straight highways. Swiss freeways are not quite as straight and not nearly as long. Crossing the whole country, Zurich to Geneva, by freeway, is about 2.5 hours. The bottom line is that most rides don't involve a lot of time on freeway. E.g. a biker will go from Zurich to Luzern (1 hour freeway) and then take local roads up into the alps.

 

- due to the terrain (hills, lakes, mountains) and the fact that many settlements here pre-date the automobile, there isn't any such thing as a long straight single lane highway here. Lot's of single lane roads that wind around and through villages with occasional roundabouts. Cows and goats are well contained fortunately, unlike Peru where I had to dodge them when riding outside Cusco.

 

- the alpine areas may be comparable to your Sierra Nevada and Yosemite with a similarly diverse range of roads.

 

 

Morning Alp Rider

 

 

No, not talking about the current or older 700/800 bikes as they are basically the same bikes with a few electronics updates & some paint & plastic changes.

 

I am talking an entirely new bike with different engine, drive system moved to the L/H side & muffler moved to the right. Possibly fuel tank moved back up front, & talk of cruise control being offered. (at the moment just some on-line chatter & some spy pictures)-- supposedly going to be a 2018 offering (still nothing firm though)

 

Your road systems (I have driven on them but not ridden on them a little years ago) seem well suited for the 800 bike. I have an 800GS & that would definitely be my choice for what you describe above. Or maybe a 700GS (I don't own a 700GS so can't say for sure)-- The 800GS has a 21" front spoked wheel so is a little slower handling on the faster twisty stuff & a little slower at fast maneuvers at over 125kph. Plus the 800GS has tubes in the tires due to the central spoke design (more difficult to do a road-side tire repair)

 

The 700GS has a 19" cast front wheel so handles a little better at speed & has tubeless tires (I think that also allows for a TPS system) -- But the 700GS has less off-road ability & a little more dumbed down that the 800GS.

 

If you don't ride a lot of gravel then the 800GT would also be a good choice as it has tubeless tires & better road tire options. The down side (at least to me) is that darn expensive drive belt if riding a lot of gravel roads as all it takes is for one piece of sharp gravel to get under the belt & punch a hole near the belt edge. A couple of holes poked in the belt center doesn't harm much but one near the edge is a death call for the belt.

 

The upside of the belt drive is not having to keep the chain lubricated (especially if riding in a lot of high speed rain).

 

Tough call for sure--

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Clarifying some of the seat height issues:

 

F700 GS - there are 4 permutations, but only three of these are promoted, but the dealer can configure any of them:

 

1. standard seat, standard suspension

2. low seat, standard suspension

3. * standard seat, low suspension

4. low seat, low suspension

 

(3) * is the option not documented in the brochure. I tried all four permutations. The benefit of (3), instead of (2), is that the standard seat is more comfortable, the low seat is quite thin and hard on long rides apparently, also passes more heat and vibration to the rider from what I've read. The benefit of (2) over (3) is the better ground clearance and weight carrying capacity (passenger + luggage)

 

F800R is still about. I also tried the 2017 F800R, it feels great but the wind really hits you at speed. BMW offers a bigger windscreen for it, doesn't look as big as the screen on the F800 GT. Some online discussions about taller after-market screens for the F800R and F700GS suggest they can be made more comfortable for use on the freeway.

 

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Thanks for the F850 GS advice, I was thinking about buying or leasing the 2017 F800 GT (new) but now I'm going to completely exclude that option and look for a used bike that can keep me happy until the new models are announced.

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Swing for the fences and try a low suspension 1200GSA? Uber comfortable on the high speed roads and capable for anything else. Huge tank and good wind protection. Apologize for stepping outside the range of bikes you inquired about but if I was touring Europe it would definitely be the only bike I'd consider. My autobahn experiences, though many years ago, left a big impression on me when the big Mercedes would boom up behind me quick even though I was constantly checking behind me.

 

Of course the question is WWMHD?

Edited by mickeym3
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Thanks for the F850 GS advice, I was thinking about buying or leasing the 2017 F800 GT (new) but now I'm going to completely exclude that option and look for a used bike that can keep me happy until the new models are announced.

 

Evening Alp Rider

 

A used BMW 700 or 800 can be a good deal as their resale is usually fairly low. If buying an early 700 or 800 just do some research as that era had a very high stator failure rate. On the later bikes (around) 2014 up BMW added a vented flywheel that allowed for much better oil cooling of the stator so very few if any failures on the later bikes.

 

Added: also on any 700/800 bike that you look at, look very closely at the fuel tank upper/outer seam area for signs of cracking (I think this is more of a U.S. problem due to tank pressurization for hydrocarbon emission control but if your country is emission friendly then possibly there also)

Edited by dirtrider
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Swing for the fences and try a low suspension 1200GSA? Uber comfortable on the high speed roads and capable for anything else. Huge tank and good wind protection. Apologize for stepping outside the range of bikes you inquired about but if I was touring Europe it would definitely be the only bike I'd consider. My autobahn experiences, though many years ago, left a big impression on me when the big Mercedes would boom up behind me quick even though I was constantly checking behind me.

 

Of course the question is WWMHD?

 

To answer your question, I've taken my 12 GS to Europe 3 times for extended periods. Hope to ride in Europe again this late summer. As an aside, I've owned a 7, 8, and 12GS. Prefer the 12 but sometime in the future might get another 7 when the 12 feels to heavy. I found the 8 to be almost as heavy as the 12 and didn't care for it.

Ride them all and make "YOUR" choice.

 

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Thanks for all the feedback

 

To understand the alpine pass roads, maybe less than 10% of what I'll do with the bike, you may want to see a couple of these videos:

 

(Susten pass, these are Swiss roads)

 

(Stelvio pass, Italian roads, notice some of the really tight

corners where the biker ventures onto the wrong side)

 

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