Drive Spline Lubrication

I have been reading a lot of posts about lubricating the rear drive line splines in the Oilheads. I had an 04 R1100S from 2005 to 2009 and put 46,000 miles on it (had 52,000 total) and never lubed the rear splines. I was out of the states for 5 years and when I came back I purchased another 04 R1100S ABS model with a build date of 09/03. The bike had 27,000 on it and now has 38,000 on it. So, the question is, Do I need to be concerned about lubricating the rear drive splines, both or just into the rear end?

I had an 87 K75S that had this problem and lost the drive shaft at 29,000, but I thought this problem with BMWs had been fixed. Any information would be appreciated.

I have been reading a lot of posts about lubricating the rear drive line splines in the Oilheads. I had an 04 R1100S from 2005 to 2009 and put 46,000 miles on it (had 52,000 total) and never lubed the rear splines. I was out of the states for 5 years and when I came back I purchased another 04 R1100S ABS model with a build date of 09/03. The bike had 27,000 on it and now has 38,000 on it. So, the question is, Do I need to be concerned about lubricating the rear drive splines, both or just into the rear end?

I had an 87 K75S that had this problem and lost the drive shaft at 29,000, but I thought this problem with BMWs had been fixed. Any information would be appreciated.

Morning 041100S

The rear drive splines seldom if ever fail so not many riders take the time to lube them. No real need to & BMW doesn't have that as a needed service.

Are you confusing the rear drive spline area with failing transmission input shaft spline failures? The 1150 bikes do have a long standing failure of the trans input shaft splines to the clutch disk splines.

Some 1150 riders do pull the bike apart every so often to clean, inspect & lubricate those splines (probably not a bad idea on the 1150 bikes until the spline wear is either ruled in or out on a particular 1150 bike)

Added: I guess the good news is that a lot of the 1150 bikes that do/did fail failed before 30,000 miles so at 38,000 that is good news for you. The problem was also more pronounced on the early 1150 bikes so the later the build date the less chance of spline failure.

You can also remove the starter, then with the clutch lever held in, move the clutch disk within it's rotational play on the trans splines to try to get an idea on how much spline movement (spline wear) that you have.

I had read about the transmission input spline failures, but thought I had read about the other spines also. Thanks for the clarification. To be clear though, so the transmission input splines on the R1100S models, specifically my 2004 model, these did not need attention? Thanks.

I had read about the transmission input spline failures, but thought I had read about the other spines also. Thanks for the clarification. To be clear though, so the transmission input splines on the R1100S models, specifically my 2004 model, these did not need attention? Thanks.

Morning 041100S

Possibly-- I haven't seen any late 1100S spline failures myself but there just aren't that many 1100S bikes out there.

Being an 1150 engine with a 6 speed transmission there is always the chance of an input shaft spline failure (but as I mentioned above, the later 1150 bikes were less prone to that issue)

If it were my bike I would at least remove the starter then give the clutch disk a slight rotation to see where I stand.

This is good to hear about the 1100S. Will do the check recommended as see what I get in movement. Thanks

Here's a thread with a great video showing what to look for.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r1100s-r1200s-tech-forum/858659-worn-splines-through-starter-hole-w-video.html

041100S,

There are actually 4 splines in the S: the infamous "clutch spline" on the front end of the tranny input shaft, then three on the drive shaft; one at the aft end of the tranny output shaft at the U-joint, the mid-shaft spline to allow the paralever movement, and the rear U-joint at the final drive pinion shaft.

The two U-joint splines don't slide except to remove/install and are snap-ring held in place. They still need a little lube. The mid-shaft spline "works" the most (every bump) and needs lube but has a much larger "load surface area" and is not much problem. It definitely needs lube AND phasing. Look up drive shaft phasing: Drive Shaft Phasing

The infamous clutch spline doesn't see a lot of movement but has a relatively low load surface area (high psi/sq. in. of load), especially if the crankshaft and tranny input shaft are not properly (exactly) aligned.

The offset clutch spline along with incomplete engagement (design flaw) accentuates the load concentration, putting the highest load at either end of the engagement AND on only one side of the two shafts at a time. Think of putting one end a pipe inside the end of a slightly larger pipe and then "bending" that "joint". The shorter the "engagement", the higher the specific load.

If the shafts are in alignment, the load (torque) of the engine is spread around the entire circumference of the shafts, and for the entire length of engagement.

Mine were OK, thankfully, as were the majority. Hopefully yours, too.

Anyway, do WHATEVER Dirt Rider says do and you'll be good to go.

All that oil came from a leaking clutch slave cyl (on the rear of the tranny) that required replacing the clutch. It was educational.

Lowndes,

Thanks for information. Did not know that the driveshaft on the 1100S models were two piece (I assume that is what you are saying). Trying to avoid a failure of these splines like I had on my 87 K75S at 29,000 miles. How did your splines look when you replaced the clutch slave cylinder and how many miles did your bike have? Mine has about 38,000. Had another 04 1100S Boxer Cup that I put 46,000 miles on it and never thought about servicing the drive splines.

041100S,

Yes, two piece drive shaft. If you ever have to remove the drive shaft, swingarm or tranny, mark the ends of each spline with a center-punch or file notch such that you can see it from the END, as in looking up the swing arm tunnel at the open end. Paint as recommended by the manuals will wipe right off leaving you PO'ed.

This is the best way to phase the shaft after mounting the frame assy and swingarm on the engine. After mounting the frame assy, slide the shaft up the tunnel and get the forward spline engaged. This takes some jiggering as you can't see what is going on at the other end. Pull the fore end boot back and use a big ole screwdriver to lever the spline snap ring into the groove. The forward end of the shaft is the outer spline on mine but I doubt it makes any difference.

My bike had about 15K miles last fall when I started the clutch job. My splines were pristine as the pic above shows. I was greatly releived by THAT. NOT happy that BMW had not seen fit to provide a weep hole for the hydraulic clutch slave cyl. There are several ways that could be done at ZERO cost in assembly. Put a weep hole in yours ASAP.

If you haven't replaced the OEM brake lines yet, you're living on borrowed time. It ain't the miles; it's the years with DOT4, as with a lot of plastics. Spiegler or Galfer make kits (about $200) and a good weekend job.

This is the "frame assy" with the swing arm and drive shaft. That's the air box sitting on top of it:

Lowndes,

 

Thanks for information. Did not know that the driveshaft on the 1100S models were two piece (I assume that is what you are saying). Trying to avoid a failure of these splines like I had on my 87 K75S at 29,000 miles. How did your splines look when you replaced the clutch slave cylinder and how many miles did your bike have? Mine has about 38,000. Had another 04 1100S Boxer Cup that I put 46,000 miles on it and never thought about servicing the drive splines.

Driveshaft failures on the oilheads are pretty rare. I wouldn't spend any time worrying about it. Transmission input splines / clutch splines fail much more commonly on the six-speed transmissions. You should check the input splines as shown in the video. At 38K miles it will be very obvious if they are good or bad. If they are good, button it back up and forget about it. If they are bad it's a whole 'nuther thing.

Lowndes,

Thanks for the additional info. Will keep all the information in case I need to do the work. Hopefully NEVER.

Changing the brake lines to Spiegler and do the ABS flush was one of the first things I did. So all is good there.

What year is your 1100S? I have read of more transmission input spline failures in the pre-2004 models? Is this true?

Jim,

Will do the check after I return from the MotoGP races in Austin. Hopefully all is well in mine.

Evening 041100S

If you do remove the drive shaft (or look up the

tube at the phasing) don't be too upset if the phasing

is way off . BMW didn't design the 1100/1150 bikes

to run at equal U joint angles front & rear due to the

Paralever design (apparently the rear end

jacking control trumped the U joint cancellation concern)

So BMW never paid much attention to the drive shaft

U joint phasing. I have removed (or inspected) drive

shafts from low mile untouched 1100/1150 bikes & most

are not factory phased for U joint cancellation. (if

the front & rear joint runs at different working

angles then even if phased there is no (or very

little) cancellation) so no real need to pay attention

to U joint phasing.

Nothing in the BMW dealer service manual about setting

phasing at reassembly so BMW didn't seem to be concerned

about it.

I phase them if I have the shaft out but otherwise don't

bother (I can't tell a phased one from a non

phased when riding the bikes & I deal with

drive train disturbances for a living so have a very

good feel for drive line disturbance)

Yes, those alarmist videos by the otherwise excellent New Hampshire wrencher Chris Harris do indeed strike panic in the hearts of conscientious 1150cc boxer riders. But they shouldn't. The "design flaw" that dear Chris goes on about is a spurious concept. The fact that the single-plate dry clutch on these bikes with hydraulic clutch actuation, doesn't actually cover the full length of the gearbox-input splined rod is not an especially worrisome issue. OK, Chris's pal Bruno in Canada, now sadly diagnosed with the Big C, devised a reassuring and neat remedy of inserting a 6mm thick washer between the friction plate and its splined hub, thus making it completely cover the spline rod's length. But so long as riders use the clutch lever on these models just as a switch - either in or out, with no hesitation -

and never EVER stand at a red light in gear holding in the lever, there is no real possibility of causing premature spline wear, either inside the plate's hub or on the splined shaft.

The reported spline failures in hydraulic-clutch bikes of the past were due simply to a manufacturing quality / metal tempering slip-up in the machine shop, which Berlin-Spandau quickly rectified.

If you still need to worry about this topic, just follow the short-cut spline-check examination tip offered on the excellent 'Pelican Parts' info board :-

"Remove starter motor;

Zip tie the clutch lever to the handlebar, with trans in 1st gear;

Using a thin long screwdriver, poke the visible outer edge of the clutch friction plate and observe the plate's hub twisting in unison with the gearbox splined input shaft. There should be no noticeable slop. Anything more than 10mm movement might be cause for concern."

A more troubling issue though for riders, is that of the inadequate "Magura" brand slave cylinder fitted to these bikes. Because of limited space, BMW Motorrad sourced a slave cylinder from Italy that's primarily intended for fitment to push-bikes, not motorbikes. So the inadequate tiny bearing surface inside this component sometimes fails and needs re-lubing with a toothpick-applied quantity of good grease. And it's adviseable to regularly flush-out and replace the hydraulic fluid in the clutch actuation circuit, in order to slow down any potential wear in that inadequately-specified component.

So apart from the slave cylinder issue, my advice would be to stop worrying about premature spline wear and spline occasional lubing, which requires around 4 hours of labour with the bike's tail strapped up in the air, and just get out there and R I D E !

and never EVER stand at a red light in gear holding in the lever,

Alan, 30 years ago when I took my first MSF course, we were taught to always stay in gear at a stop, so as to make an emergency getaway if necessary. I still believe this to be good advice. Given the general clunkiness of the Oilhead transmissions, an emergency engagement into first gear from neutral is even more problematic.

How does this bugger my splines?

Because you're holding the clutch friction plate further off the length of the splined shaft than when it's in the full-engaged mode. Which as we've established is only a partial covering of the shaft's length. Any slight mis-alignment between the axes of the friction plate and the spline, all rotating at tickover or higher speed, will accentuate pressure on a small area of the splines, either inside the plate's hub or on the shaft.

Here in Europe, red traffic-control lights first turn amber before going to green, so the change to amber is the cue for riders to pull the lever and clunk into first gear. And when I say 'clunk'.....

During the short time interval from amber to green, you have time to let out the clutch lever and away you go on green, checking for any cross-traffic amber-gamblers. There's no 'emergency' involved. Sitting stationary in first at tickover with the clutch held in is simply bad practice, IMHO.

On any bike !

Except of course on the magnificently revolutionary Honda "New Concept" bikes, NC700 and NC750, with twin-clutches. Six-speed naked bikes that are effectively auto-transmission. When none of the above applies....'cos there's no clutch lever and no gear pedal. Try one someday - you'll be gobsmacked and wonder why most motorcycles are still manual transmission, when all cars are auto and have been for decades.

Because you're holding the clutch friction plate further off the length of the splined shaft than when it's in the full-engaged mode. Which as we've established is only a partial covering of the shaft's length. Any slight mis-alignment between the axes of the friction plate and the spline, all rotating at tickover or higher speed, will accentuate pressure on a small area of the splines, either inside the plate's hub or on the shaft.

Here in Europe, red traffic-control lights first turn amber before going to green, so the change to amber is the cue for riders to pull the lever and clunk into first gear. And when I say 'clunk'.....

 

During the short time interval from amber to green, you have time to let out the clutch lever and away you go on green, checking for any cross-traffic amber-gamblers. There's no 'emergency' involved. Sitting stationary in first at tickover with the clutch held in is simply bad practice, IMHO.

On any bike !

Evening Alan

What am I missing on this?--While sitting still with trans in gear & clutch lever pulled in the clutch plate and trans input shaft isn't turning so how could they wear????

Because you're holding the clutch friction plate further off the length of the splined shaft than when it's in the full-engaged mode. Which as we've established is only a partial covering of the shaft's length. Any slight mis-alignment between the axes of the friction plate and the spline, all rotating at tickover or higher speed, will accentuate pressure on a small area of the splines, either inside the plate's hub or on the shaft.

 

Here in Europe, red traffic-control lights first turn amber before going to green, so the change to amber is the cue for riders to pull the lever and clunk into first gear. And when I say 'clunk'.....

 

During the short time interval from amber to green, you have time to let out the clutch lever and away you go on green, checking for any cross-traffic amber-gamblers. There's no 'emergency' involved. Sitting stationary in first at tickover with the clutch held in is simply bad practice, IMHO.

On any bike !

Except of course on the magnificently revolutionary Honda "New Concept" bikes, NC700 and NC750, with twin-clutches. Six-speed naked bikes that are effectively auto-transmission. When none of the above applies....'cos there's no clutch lever and no gear pedal. Try one someday - you'll be gobsmacked and wonder why most motorcycles are still manual transmission, when all cars are auto and have been for decades.

Mr. Sykes,

In the US, we don't have the "amber before green" sequence, but we do have the "amber-gamblers" trying to get thru a green to red light. But the emergency referred to is usually Amber texting in a station wagon coming up from behind. All too frequent here.

As per what DirtRider says, the "clutch splines" aren't even turning with the clutch in and the bike stopped. It is turning at the stoplight with the tranny in neutral and the clutch out, but there is no load on it. Max load on this spline is max throttle and in gear. Keep in mind that the max movement is on the diaphragm spring that the clutch rod pushes, the clutch plate and hub only move enough to clear the housing cover.

I do agree with you about neutral at the stoplight. That little "throw-out" bearing in the hydraulic clutch slave cyl is very cute and I sure wouldn't want to tax it. Already did a clutch job because the slave cyl leaked. If you haven't drilled the weep hole GO DO IT NOW. EZPZ.

Misalignment of the two shafts greatly accentuates the spline loading during any normal driving and goes up with any increased load. The inadequate heat treating (hardening) of the clutch spline hub does not explain the uneven shaft spline wear with the greatest wear at the rear end of the hub spline. With correct alignment and a "soft" metal hub the wear would be evenly distributed along the engaged splines. Photos of this spline wear I've seen all show the greatest wear of the shaft splines at the rear end of the clutch hub.

Regards

Misalignment of the two shafts greatly accentuates the spline loading during any normal driving and goes up with any increased load. The inadequate heat treating (hardening) of the clutch spline hub does not explain the uneven shaft spline wear with the greatest wear at the rear end of the hub spline. With correct alignment and a "soft" metal hub the wear would be evenly distributed along the engaged splines. Photos of this spline wear I've seen all show the greatest wear of the shaft splines at the rear end of the clutch hub.

Few examples of a partially worn spline system have been documented. The only ones I have seen have been run until the hub strips out.

My contention is that the spline system is already adequate - providing it is radially aligned. If it is not radially aligned, the loads on the spline teeth are indeterminate, cyclic, and happen anytime the assembly is rotating (even in neutral) with the clutch fully engaged. In this case the clutch disk is being dragged around the face of the flywheel (i. e. orbiting) applying a helluva cyclic load to the spline teeth - every revolution!

The reported spline failures in hydraulic-clutch bikes of the past were due simply to a manufacturing quality / metal tempering slip-up in the machine shop, which Berlin-Spandau quickly rectified.

Alan :

If a 2004 R1100S with six speed transmission, had a spline/clutch plate failure ( BOTH the transmission input spline and the clutch plate were worn down ) , what would be the fix so that it doesn't occur again ?

There are folks who have this failure starting at 10K, some starting at 20K , and others starting at 30K miles. Changing just the clutch plate and transmission input shaft and the problem would reoccur in say 2x and 3x of the original failure mileage .

Besides replacing the clutch plate and the transmission input shaft, what would you also replace -

The fly wheel , all of the clutch parts, housing cover ( part that has the breather ), rear transmission housing cover ( part that contains all the gears ) etc ...?

Thank you.

"My contention is that the spline system is already adequate - providing it is radially aligned. If it is not radially aligned, the loads on the spline teeth are indeterminate, cyclic, and happen anytime the assembly is rotating (even in neutral) with the clutch fully engaged. In this case the clutch disk is being dragged around the face of the flywheel (i. e. orbiting) applying a helluva cyclic load to the spline teeth - every revolution!"

NRP,

Because the hub is offset to the rear of the clutch plate, "cantelevered" from the disc, and the tranny input shaft is not fully engaged or all the way into the hub, the steel clutch disc would be flexing to accommodate the eccentricity or offset. It wouldn't take much, just a few thou. This S clutch has the much stiffer diaphragm spring and I doubt it is sliding around in there at all. I'm sure it would want to, tho.

I have seen pics from a guy that went to the trouble of measuring the offset and machining new offset alignment pins for the engine-tranny connection. He claimed it fixed his spline problem.

Everyone has a pet theory about the cause, and what you should replace. My theory is that your transmission was drilled wrong from the factory. There is nothing you can do to fix it, short of designing a set of offset pins to realign it. There have ben documented instances of that trick solving the problem, but it's WAY out of my league skill-wise.

For mechanical mortals your best bet is to replace the transmission with a known-good used transmission. They surface on eBay and BBY every now and then.

If you replaced only the input shaft you might want to buy a spacer from cele0001. People using the spacer seem to have an increased mtbf.

In any event, good luck. It's a crappy thing to have. It's pretty much turned me off the brand.

Yes, Lowndes, I saw those same fotos where the guy had attempted to re-align the friction plate assembly with the splined shaft, subsequently claiming the problem of premature wear was solved.

But my overall contention based on 25 years of various Boxers ownership is that too many of us who have a boxer with a hydraulically-actuated clutch spend too much time worrying about premature spline wear.

The only Chris Harris contention I agree with is his insistence on never slipping such a clutch.

But my overall contention based on 25 years of various Boxers ownership is that too many of us who have a boxer with a hydraulically-actuated clutch spend too much time worrying about premature spline wear.

Well, here's another on not to worry about:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r1100s-r1200s-tech-forum/953597-2000-r1100s-driveline-issue.html

Yes, Lowndes, I saw those same fotos where the guy had attempted to re-align the friction plate assembly with the splined shaft, subsequently claiming the problem of premature wear was solved.

But my overall contention based on 25 years of various Boxers ownership is that too many of us who have a boxer with a hydraulically-actuated clutch spend too much time worrying about premature spline wear.

The only Chris Harris contention I agree with is his insistence on never slipping such a clutch.

A strong +1 to Alan.

Is it part number 1, part number 10 or both that needs to be replaced ?

If it's part number 10, is it okay to take my gears out of the old transmission and reuse them in the gear housing ?

What name would you give to part number 1 ?

What name would you give to part number 10 ?

and never EVER stand at a red light in gear holding in the lever,

 

Alan, 30 years ago when I took my first MSF course, we were taught to always stay in gear at a stop, so as to make an emergency getaway if necessary. I still believe this to be good advice. Given the general clunkiness of the Oilhead transmissions, an emergency engagement into first gear from neutral is even more problematic.

 

How does this bugger my splines?

Sitting at a stop in neutral is an invitation to a bigger problem, your health and safety.

I'm an advocate of ALWAYS having a way out, angled when stopped so you could move rapidly if

the idiot coming up behind doesn't slow/stop.

BTDT, seen it too many times.

 

Is it part number 1, part number 10 or both that needs to be replaced ?

If it's part number 10, is it okay to take my gears out of the old transmission and reuse them in the gear housing ?

 

What name would you give to part number 1 ?

What name would you give to part number 10 ?

Afternoon GroceryRun

Part #1 is called the housing cover--you can bolt a new housing cover (#1) to your old #10 & use your old gear sets & shift forks etc.--BUT!--you still have to reset (or at least check) all the shaft end play shimming. Just because it is a new part doesn't always mean it is more precisely machined than you old part so keep that in mind.

Much easier to just use a dial indicator on your existing trans front cover bearing center to crankshaft instant center then make some off-set alignment pins (or my favorite off-set bushings). That way you KNOW FOR SURE that the trans input shaft is centered on the crankshaft.

I can make a set of offset alignment pins in a couple of hours with my antique lathe. I have material, but I have to know how much offset.

One suggestion I would make is to punch mark the position of the transmission to the engine before loosening any bolts and removal of the transmission.

This will act as a reference point of the original setup as it was my experience that I could achieve slightly different positions with both offset dowels and the originals. I was using my own indicator setup and felt with the offsets I had made that I could be inducing more issues than I was solving. I was able to induce a small change in position using the original dowels. Time will tell.

Mine went out around 50,000 miles and I did a new shaft and components along with the clutch disc spacer from Cele.

If I had to do it over I would have done the spacer and the clutch components and left the shaft.

Yes, Lowndes, I saw those same fotos where the guy had attempted to re-align the friction plate assembly with the splined shaft, subsequently claiming the problem of premature wear was solved.

But my overall contention based on 25 years of various Boxers ownership is that too many of us who have a boxer with a hydraulically-actuated clutch spend too much time worrying about premature spline wear.

The only Chris Harris contention I agree with is his insistence on never slipping such a clutch.

 

 

 

A strong +1 to Alan.

Allen, Roger,

There's a difference between aware and ignore, as well as aware and worry.

When you have one of these very nice machines with less than 15K on the clock and you read about some of the common problem areas like the splines and have a good idea of the cost and trouble it could cause, I believe the prudent path is to be proactive, find out everything you can about it and possibly determine if your bike has this issue. If it does, fix it before it breaks.

Some people are still learning about it and some of those do it the hard way. As with most things, it's cheaper and easier to fix before the fail. For some, a roadside failure is a death knell for the machine because of the cost.

In this process I did learn of some lesser gremlins such as brake lines, HES (mine failed two days ago, but because of these forums I knew very quickly what it was), lambda, dyno/syn oil and seals, 14.2v regulators and AGM batteries, injectors, slave cyl weep holes and there must be a few more, from many very helpful people including you, Roger 04, on this and several other forums with much experience, wisdom, and patience. Many have benefitted.

There are a few people that seem to get really annoyed at the mere mention of the spline problem and wish everyone would ignore it, I guess. They obviously don't have a new-to-them R1100S with low miles and this sword of Damocles.

I generally agree.

It's good to have a broad knowledge of the failure points of these bikes, especially if you would like to keep them, as have I, for 100K miles or so.

That way, you have a decent idea of what might have gone wrong if it does. Happened to me when my spines puked at 66K and the ABS died at 81K.

Also, you can take care of the little things like brake/clutch lines, fuel disconnects, interior tank lines, and HES wiring (1100-series?). After that, it starts to go to kismet.

That said, these oilheads are good soldiers. I've had 3, from the very beginning, and as pissed as I could get--stranded with a bad spline, having to do an ABS-ectomy, surging, and so forth--I still choose my RT when I need to get from Sonoma to Omaha in 3 days, which I just did with 115K on the clock.

God help me, I do love her so.

My thanks, again, go to Dirtrider for the endless and generous sharing of your knowledge.

Thanks also go to nrp for offering to make alignment pins for us (I know you've offered this service before to others ).

And credits to:

Jim Moore - I think I share your opinion about BMW.

Lowndes - I bet you didn't think buying a BMW was going to take up to much of your life.

041100S - for stealing your thread

Alan - bringing the experienced viewpoint

Roger - as always

tallman - riding encounters

Boomer343 - assemblage tips

and everyone else

When my splines fail again, I'm going to have the housing cover replaced also. Period .

Seeing that reference above to contributor cele001, reminds me I used to communicate with him when I modd'ed my first 04 Rockster by fitting a spacer'ed clutch friction plate - unnecessarily as it turned out, 'cos on examination of the split-in-half bike, there was absolutely zero wear on the splines or the plate's hub at 33K miles.

However, I did buy the 6mm-thick spacer from him and subsequently got grandson Robin in Sheffield to run up a few more on his amazing automated million-dollar CNC milling kit, using his craftily-designed fitting kit to mod the friction plates. The few plates were all donated free to various UK beemer-owners just for the cost of postage and I never got around to tying up some sort of co-operation with "esmir" - ? Can't remember the exact name.

Is he still around on here or the other BMW forum - was it ADVRider ?

- has anybody got a handle on him ?

AL in s.e. Spain

Alan :

Seems like he's a member of every forum I visit, but he is current on the ADV Rider forum.

His email is listed on the first post of this thread.

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/bmw-1150gs-clutch-splines-spacer-kit.964425/

The clutch hub can fail as well as the input shaft spline. Here are photos of mine at 48000.

Could someone tell me how to fix this so the photos show up in the post instead of as a link?

Hello, Shane -

Could someone tell me how to fix this so the photos show up in the post instead of as a link?

Posting pics from google may not be the easiest but is possible:

See 2nd post on this page

Thank you Lee

I see my links don't work and I can't edit the post so just ignore it.

Seeing that reference above to contributor cele001, reminds me I used to communicate with him when I modd'ed my first 04 Rockster by fitting a spacer'ed clutch friction plate - unnecessarily as it turned out, 'cos on examination of the split-in-half bike, there was absolutely zero wear on the splines or the plate's hub at 33K miles.

 

However, I did buy the 6mm-thick spacer from him and subsequently got grandson Robin in Sheffield to run up a few more on his amazing automated million-dollar CNC milling kit, using his craftily-designed fitting kit to mod the friction plates. The few plates were all donated free to various UK beemer-owners just for the cost of postage and I never got around to tying up some sort of co-operation with "esmir" - ? Can't remember the exact name.

Is he still around on here or the other BMW forum - was it ADVRider ?

- has anybody got a handle on him ?

AL in s.e. Spain

Allen,

Esmir is in FL (Jacksonville, I think was the return address). His email - I don't think he minds the publicity - is: Esmir Celebic

I bought the spacer from him in Nov 2016. I think it was advrider he was on, also BMWMOA.

He sent a link to an install on a R1100S:

R1100S clutch spacer install

Super nice guy, very responsive to several email questions I had.

Please give him my best regards.

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh530/essmjay753159/clutch%20hub_zpspyrzqcft.jpg' alt='clutch%20hub_zpspyrzqcft.jpg'>[image

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh530/essmjay753159/2015-10-11%2018.32.30_zpsdr26f6d7.jpg' alt='2015-10-11%2018.32.30_zpsdr26f6d7.jpg'>

I am still around but there is not much new to post, and I see no benefit in arguing the same things over and over. Main thread I check and update is on advrider.

Here is the link.

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/bmw-1150gs-clutch-splines-spacer-kit.964425/

I edit the first post to reflect the current situation so that is the easiest way for anybody to get info.

Thanks to all for kind words, and I appreciate the support.

Esmir

"I want to be unique, just like everybody else."

Esmir - don't worry, YOU ARE!!

Lowndes

Many thanks for the info, Lowndes. I've now made contact with Esmir via the ADVrider forum and at the moment - 21st April '17 - he's out of rivets. So in a few weeks I'll be sending him my PayPal order for a spacer and a set of rivets, along with passing on your good wishes.

ALAN ( spelt the English way ) in s.e. Spain

Alan,

Yes, I noticed my gaf after it was posted and meant to correct it. Apologies.

Did you read the part about substituting the M5 bolts for the rivets??

I think I'd rather do the rivets, personally.

If you need the rivets before Esmir has them, I still have my complete set in the bag. Couldn't use it with the Siebenrock clutch plate - different dia rivet circle. I could mail it to you and you could replace it when Esmir gets another run ready if that would help you.

He includes two extra rivets.

What a kind offer ! Actually, I don't get to see my newly-purchased-from-eBay-sight-unseen 04 Rockster until May 18th, when I go on my annual UK hols for a month, so I must politely decline your kind offer as Esmir says he'll have more rivets by the time I get to tear the Rockster in half and stick its tail up in the air. Incidentaly, my grandson Robin in Sheffield UK devised and fabricated in his million-dollar University CNC design & machining studio, a very neat 4-piece kit for pressing in all the rivets at the same time, ensuring perfect alignment and no damage to plate, hub or fingers. When I get to the UK I'll dig out the 80 second video - it's disappeared from U-Toob for some strange reason but it's worth re-uploading and posting just to see a really impressive piece of imaginative design and execution.

Alan,

Per Esmir, he just uses a hammer, one rivet at a time, on an anvil of sorts. Sounds kinda crude, conjures up visions of burly blacksmiths around a forge with big hammers, but if Esmir does it..... But, I want to see the 4 piece press kit!! In action. Please post vid when you can and let us know. This has to be a more accurate way to center and seat the hub and spacer rivets.

If anything changes on this spacer and rivets, let me know. It's just sitting here.

I used an air hammer and an anvil on mine. Can't say it looked all that good but it made a round trip to Nova Scotia so couldn't have been too bad. A buddy that used to rivet/buck for a living gave it a D+ for quality but allowed that it would work.

I have had the pleasure of modifying a few clutch plates over the past two years, so I got better at it as it went. Currently, I have a tool that does all rivets at one using 50 ton press.

There is almost no play in the system before the rivets are pressed, so I cant see too much room for being off center.

I have done them with the hammer, and I have also done bolts.

I prefer rivets, so I send them with the part to encourage people to do the rivets. Easiest way is to use 4 bolts to hold the assembly tight, do 4 rivets (hammer or otherwise), remove bolts and finish the job.

Nobody contacted me regarding any post install issues yet.

I am sure I would be the first to know