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BMW RT 1200 R - wont start in gear - clutch microswitch problem


allenp

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like title says I cant start bike in gear, only in neutral. I've already deactivated microswitch under the clutch lever, I unplugged it from it's socket under the fuel tank, tried shortcircuiting pins with a screw driver, no luck.

 

I've also read that these bikes (at least some of them) are expecting to "see" clutch released while initial check on key on is active, and then you need to press clutch lever in to be able to start it.

 

I dont think that was the case with my 2007 rt, because if i remember correctly i could start it normaly even though I'd press clutch, then turn key to ignition on then fired it up, but just in case i tried both methods too.

 

First one:

1. turn ignition on, let the check finish, shortcircuit pins in connector, then fire it up - no luck.

 

2. shortcircuit pins, turn ignition on, let the check finish, remove screwdriver, fire it up - no luck.

 

 

I've noticed that sometimes when I shortcircuit those pins, I see a spark which tells me that those pins are active. Also I've tried measuring voltage on them with a multimeter it was 11.63V (which sounds a bit low to me).

 

What could be the problem and where does the wire go from the harness?

The wire from that connector I shortcircuited goes directly to main wiring loom - in vicinity of that connector under the fuel tank but I dont know where it ends or where it connects to next and what to check.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

I can ride my bike,just need to start it from neutral.

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I've also read that these bikes (at least some of them) are expecting to "see" clutch released while initial check on key on is active, and then you need to press clutch lever in to be able to start it.

 

That is correct, you cannot start in gear if the clutch is pulled in before turning on the ignition.

 

From the repair DVD:

(+) Function test, engine start suppression

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note : Engine start is not enabled if you pull the clutch with a gear engaged before switching on the ignition.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Check

* Move the kill switch to the centre position.

 

* Select neutral.

 

* Switch on the ignition.

> Neutral telltale light "N" lights up.

 

* Select a gear.

> Neutral telltale light "N" goes out.

 

* Press the starter button.

 

> Starter does not operate.

 

* Extend the side stand.

 

* Pull the clutch lever.

 

* Press the starter button.

> Starter does not operate.

 

* Retract the side stand.

 

* Press the starter button without releasing the clutch lever.

> Starter operates.

 

 

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dirtrider
like title says I cant start bike in gear, only in neutral. I've already deactivated microswitch under the clutch lever, I unplugged it from it's socket under the fuel tank, tried shortcircuiting pins with a screw driver, no luck.

 

I've also read that these bikes (at least some of them) are expecting to "see" clutch released while initial check on key on is active, and then you need to press clutch lever in to be able to start it.

 

I dont think that was the case with my 2007 rt, because if i remember correctly i could start it normaly even though I'd press clutch, then turn key to ignition on then fired it up, but just in case i tried both methods too.

 

First one:

1. turn ignition on, let the check finish, shortcircuit pins in connector, then fire it up - no luck.

 

2. shortcircuit pins, turn ignition on, let the check finish, remove screwdriver, fire it up - no luck.

 

 

I've noticed that sometimes when I shortcircuit those pins, I see a spark which tells me that those pins are active. Also I've tried measuring voltage on them with a multimeter it was 11.63V (which sounds a bit low to me).

 

What could be the problem and where does the wire go from the harness?

The wire from that connector I shortcircuited goes directly to main wiring loom - in vicinity of that connector under the fuel tank but I dont know where it ends or where it connects to next and what to check.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

I can ride my bike,just need to start it from neutral.

 

Afternoon allenp

 

First off, does your bike have cruise control? (that can make a difference in the clutch switch)

 

In any case you can't use the voltage reading going into that switch as anything useful as both legs of the clutch switch report directly to the fueling computer then from there the clutch discreet signal goes into the Can System.

 

If your bike has cruise control then you can try a cruise control test as a somewhat test of an input signal but I believe that your 07 1200 has a double clutch switch.

 

In any case your problem might be clutch switch related (but you seem to have eliminated that with a jumper wire, as long as you have jumpered the correct switch pigtail)

 

Your problem could still be the side stand switch as the computer has to see the correct checksum to allow starting in gear.

 

Best way to diagnosis your problem is with GA-911 as that will show WHAT THE BIKE COMPUTERS SEE & how they process the signals as far as side stand & clutch input signals go.

 

 

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My 07 switch started acting up a couple of weeks ago.

It wouldn't start in gear with the clutch pulled in and the cruise control wasn't working either.

(The ECU disables the cruise control if it detects a fault in the the switch.)

 

I opened it and gave it a good cleanup with contact cleaner and everything went back to normal. :thumbsup:

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If you ride a lot of rain or let it set in the rain while at work, let it dry out. If you don't play in the rain, ignore the below.

 

My '06 did a similar thing where it would only start in neutral. Briefly thought about getting a diagnosis but figured it wasn't a big deal. Some dry months go by (I ride nearly daily and all weather) and the bike fixed itself.

 

Another issue with the cruise control red light. After some serious heavy rains, the light wouldn't illuminate, but some dry months went by,...viola, red light on when cruise is on.....the cruise control function wasn't affected.

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No it does not have cruise control,

I am not sure what you mean by it having double clutch switch because i cannot see where the second switch could be, there is only one in the clutch lever assembly. Second, i think my bike did not expect to see the clutch lever depressed while ignition was turned on because i could start it in gear even though the clutch was pressed all the time during ignition on and initial check procedure

like title says I cant start bike in gear, only in neutral. I've already deactivated microswitch under the clutch lever, I unplugged it from it's socket under the fuel tank, tried shortcircuiting pins with a screw driver, no luck.

 

I've also read that these bikes (at least some of them) are expecting to "see" clutch released while initial check on key on is active, and then you need to press clutch lever in to be able to start it.

 

I dont think that was the case with my 2007 rt, because if i remember correctly i could start it normaly even though I'd press clutch, then turn key to ignition on then fired it up, but just in case i tried both methods too.

 

First one:

1. turn ignition on, let the check finish, shortcircuit pins in connector, then fire it up - no luck.

 

2. shortcircuit pins, turn ignition on, let the check finish, remove screwdriver, fire it up - no luck.

 

 

I've noticed that sometimes when I shortcircuit those pins, I see a spark which tells me that those pins are active. Also I've tried measuring voltage on them with a multimeter it was 11.63V (which sounds a bit low to me).

 

What could be the problem and where does the wire go from the harness?

The wire from that connector I shortcircuited goes directly to main wiring loom - in vicinity of that connector under the fuel tank but I dont know where it ends or where it connects to next and what to check.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

I can ride my bike,just need to start it from neutral.

 

Afternoon allenp

 

First off, does your bike have cruise control? (that can make a difference in the clutch switch)

 

In any case you can't use the voltage reading going into that switch as anything useful as both legs of the clutch switch report directly to the fueling computer then from there the clutch discreet signal goes into the Can System.

 

If your bike has cruise control then you can try a cruise control test as a somewhat test of an input signal but I believe that your 07 1200 has a double clutch switch.

 

In any case your problem might be clutch switch related (but you seem to have eliminated that with a jumper wire, as long as you have jumpered the correct switch pigtail)

 

Your problem could still be the side stand switch as the computer has to see the correct checksum to allow starting in gear.

 

Best way to diagnosis your problem is with GA-911 as that will show WHAT THE BIKE COMPUTERS SEE & how they process the signals as far as side stand & clutch input signals go.

 

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No it does not have cruise control,

I am not sure what you mean by it having double clutch switch because i cannot see where the second switch could be, there is only one in the clutch lever assembly. Second, i think my bike did not expect to see the clutch lever depressed while ignition was turned on because i could start it in gear even though the clutch was pressed all the time during ignition on and initial check procedure

 

Morning Allenp

 

OK, without cruise control then you don't have the ability to use the cruise control system to test the clutch switch (on the cruise bikes the clutch switch is a dual usage switch that is used for start inhibit & for cruise control defeat)

 

I'm not sure on the clutch switch pulled in before ign switch on having any effect-- On most that I have tested (with side stand up & trans in gear the clutch lever can be pulled in first before the ign switch turned on & they will still crank over OK. With side stand down they will not start in gear no matter the clutch lever position.

 

If you can't track your problem to a faulty clutch switch then you will probably need a GS-911 to find your problem.

 

 

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yes i know but i dont have one and service isnt that nearby so id like to do what ever i can myself first.

 

so i would like some kind of manual or wiring diagram to see where that wire leads after the connector under the fuel tank and what it connects to.

 

how to remove fuel tank is it a problem to do?

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yes i know but i dont have one and service isnt that nearby so id like to do what ever i can myself first.

 

so i would like some kind of manual or wiring diagram to see where that wire leads after the connector under the fuel tank and what it connects to.

 

how to remove fuel tank is it a problem to do?

 

Afternoon Allenp

 

The wiring diagram isn't in the BMW manual, BMW has a special wire diagrams manual. But it doesn't show a lot of detail on how things work as a lot of the working takes place inside the system computers.

 

In any case check your PM as I sent you a wire diagram specific to the area that you are working with.

 

Fuel tank removal isn't a big deal just disconnect (& MARK) as you go until it will lift off. (I sent you another PM on tank removal procedure)

Edited by dirtrider
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duckbubbles

Just a thought- On my '05 ST, the clutch lever adjuster "screw" would back out over time and quit contacting the clutch switch when pulled in fully. It would happen gradually enough that I didn't notice the change in engagement point and would not start except in neutral.

 

Frank

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sardineone

Just a thought- On my '05 ST, the clutch lever adjuster "screw" would back out over time and quit contacting the clutch switch when pulled in fully.

 

Bingo! My 06' clutch switch wasn't allowing me to start in gear. I adjusted my lever adjuster screw a little and it started working. It was dirty in the switch area, so I cleaned it while I had the lever off to look things over. Thanks Frank!

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thank you very much, I will check it out, and if someone has something else to add, I will be watching this thread until I find the answer to my problem. I suspect there was some kind of corrosion in some kind of connector, due to rainy rides.

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thank you very much, I will check it out, and if someone has something else to add, I will be watching this thread until I find the answer to my problem. I suspect there was some kind of corrosion in some kind of connector, due to rainy rides.

 

Afternoon allenp

 

Do you have a 1200R or 1200RT? (it can make a difference)

 

When it comes to water effecting the starting that is usually a side stand switch issue (there was BMW service bulletin on a specific SN range of switches involved but for some reason I can't seem to find that service bulletin at the moment)

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ive tried out the switch with multimeter, it is working properly, problem seems to be somewhere further than that connector to which the switch connects to.

 

does anyone know which pin on the ecu this switch connects to and where ecu is located on bike?

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ive tried out the switch with multimeter, it is working properly, problem seems to be somewhere further than that connector to which the switch connects to.

 

does anyone know which pin on the ecu this switch connects to and where ecu is located on bike?

 

Afternoon Allenp

 

The pins from the clutch switch at the engine control unit are #25 & # 48 (black/green wire) & (black/blue wire)

 

The engine control unit (BMS-K) is under the fuel tank.

 

Have your positively cleared the side stand switch (remember it isn't a simple yes/no switch as it is 3 wire affair with checksum input.

 

If you put bike on center stand, then put trans in gear, then turn key on, then zip tie the clutch lever in, then have someone hold the start button down as you briskly operate the side stand! (will it occasionally crank?)

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  • 1 month later...

heres the update, Ive disconnected 4 connectors from ECU, 2 smaller ones and two bigger ones.

On neither of them I've found a pin that would be connected to green and black line of the clutch switch connector.

 

On the other hand, multiple pins were connected to blue and black line so Im supposing it is common terminal (ground or frame connection).

 

Which pin from my pictures should this green and black wire be connected to? I'm guessing it is pin 48 on connector F (2007)?

http://imgur.com/a/cGJDa

 

First and second picture show connector 1307 and its pins, third and fourth picture show connector 2007 and its pins.

Other pictures show ECU and its pins and small connector which goes to clutch switch and its wires.

 

There is no pin number 25 on each of those connectors - there are only empty slots for pins, so they are not connected. Are you sure about your diagram or did I disconnect wrong terminals from ECU?

Edited by allenp
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it was connected to another connector underneath ECU, labeled with letter M, everything is working fine, wires are ok, I'm ordering new switch and will try it then.

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