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New wet head surging woes


BeemerBerg

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BeemerBerg

Brand New 2016 RT with less than 2000 miles.

I understand the fly-by-wire throttle, but damn it's waaay too sensitive for my liking. With the engine eagerly churning out 125 HP, every little micro-movement, bump-in-the road and hickup is being amplified thru the drive train. I've tried every combination on the D-ESA, with no joy. My hands are getting blistered. The only smoothness is when cruise control is engaged, which is not doable in city traffic or the curvies.

The surging feels like my old '99 RT when the Throttle bodies & valve lash was not synced.

 

Anybody else out there getting beat up by their water head? Is this just 'break-in blues'?

Is there a throttle position sensor (TPS) that may need adjustment??

I'm far away from a dealer, and have a long trip ahead of me. I need to 'break this wild horse'.

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The only complaint I have with my 2016 is the clunk in gears 1-3. Drives me crazy. Otherwise the bike is a huge improvement from my 2009.

Alan

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you probably have it set for dynamic....it is sensitive. Set to rain or road and the issue will go away. Also add a set of Grip Puppies and the comfort will increase substantially

Edited by Skywagon
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BeemerBerg

Yes, hyperness most pronounced in 'road' mode. Havent played with 'dynamic ' yet. Will experiment with 'rain' mode more.

Got Grip Puppies-- love 'em. A friend suggested a fat o-ring between twist & bar end or a throttle rocker to releve some of the throttle spring tension.

"The bike just don't like goin slow, officer."

But I still don't think this throttle hyperness is healthy for driver or drive train.

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John in VA

Yes my 16RT's throttle is by far the touchiest of all the RTs I've had but I've pretty much mastered its micro-movements and it's become completely predictable now. It takes miles of practice.

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I guess I remember experiencing a bit of this when I first got mine and tried out dynamic mode. In fact, I did an inadvertent wheelie. :bike:

 

You'll definitely adjust to it, but I'd suggest making sure you're not in that mode initially.

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Brand New 2016 RT with less than 2000 miles.

I understand the fly-by-wire throttle, but damn it's waaay too sensitive for my liking. With the engine eagerly churning out 125 HP, every little micro-movement, bump-in-the road and hickup is being amplified thru the drive train. I've tried every combination on the D-ESA, with no joy. My hands are getting blistered. The only smoothness is when cruise control is engaged, which is not doable in city traffic or the curvies.

The surging feels like my old '99 RT when the Throttle bodies & valve lash was not synced.

 

Anybody else out there getting beat up by their water head? Is this just 'break-in blues'?

Is there a throttle position sensor (TPS) that may need adjustment??

I'm far away from a dealer, and have a long trip ahead of me. I need to 'break this wild horse'.

Consider yourself on a learning curve! The issue is that the wethead throttle return spring is very light, and you have to get used to it. You are holding the throttle waaaayyy too tight (the clue is in your saying that you are getting blisters), and you just have to learn to relax a LOT.

 

I had a couples of exciting incidents myself, when I first rode my prior '14 RT. My holds on the grips are always relaxed, but on one of the first ride on the '14, I started to proceed from a stop sign, when I detected a car approaching fast from a relatively blind spot (to me), and I had to grab the brakes fast. The quick movement of my right hand to the brake lever caused my right thumb to brush the underside of the throttle, and the bike lurched quickly forward, but I was able to respond quickly with the clutch and saved myself. I learned to relax my grip more from then on! :)

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I guess I remember experiencing a bit of this when I first got mine and tried out dynamic mode. In fact, I did an inadvertent wheelie. :bike:

 

You'll definitely adjust to it, but I'd suggest making sure you're not in that mode initially.

Yeah, I did a little of that too, when I first had the '14 RT! Took off in 1st, and thought I was accelerating about the same rate as on the prior '07 RT, until the front wheel came off the ground! Lovely machine!!! :)

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I've noticed mine can be twitchy at times too. For some reason, I go 0-100 in a few seconds. What's even weirder, is I'm smiling the whole time. :-)

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...but damn it's waaay too sensitive for my liking.

 

You are comparing your old 1100 to the new 1200. This bike has way more power and as such the throttle will always respond in a more lievly way. As others have said select 'Rain' mode and you will feel a lot more at home on this 'till you get totally used to it.

 

 

My hands are getting blistered.

You are holding that throttle way too tight. that is most of the reason you are feeling this 'hypersensitivity' you alude to.

Relax the grip then you won't need the grip puppies either. Your hand barely need to grip the bars at all.

 

 

 

The surging feels like my old '99 RT when the Throttle bodies & valve lash was not synced.

Your bike is NOT surging. It is YOU. you are holding on too tight and the bike is responding to your input. Loosen that grip!

 

 

I'm far away from a dealer, and have a long trip ahead of me. I need to 'break this wild horse'.

The only thing that needs breaking in here is you. Your bike sounds normal and to be honest, pretty good. Go change that riding mode on the bike, also go and change YOUR riding style and the bike will come to you.

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John in VA

Aside from the spring tension the difference in design between the 1100 cable-operated linkages and WC electronically-operated throttle is huge. I recall some slop in my 1100 throttle (although it was within spec) and of course the motor was a bit "lazier" than the WC motor. The WC grips themselves seem skinnier than I remember the 1100 grips. Grip puppies help me by providing a bit larger diameter grip and softer touch along with some vibe reduction.

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You have a fly by wire bike with a lot of power and no throttle lag.

Very different to our previous RT's. I am just repeating what others have said but am writing this to confirm their statements.

So.....Rain Mode and select the highest gear possible while in town, will soften the throttle response by a fair margin. On any longer stretch like main roads, the cruise control becomes very handy. I use cruise control a lot as it is brilliantly easy to set and change. As more as you use it as more it becomes second nature.

You have a great bike and we all had to go through a learning curve as it is just such a massive change from our previous RT's.

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BeemerBerg

Thanks all for your input.

I guess I was used to my camhead (60000 miles) and hexhead (120k miles). Amazing how both of those fit me like a favorite pair of gloves. I could predict their every moves. Each click of the Wilburs would bring a new personality. Every time they got new shoes (tires), it was like the bike was reborn! It was like 'dancing with the stars'. Yea, I'm keeping those bikes!!

 

Like any 'relationship' each partner needs time to get to know each other. I need to up my skills to match the amazing wethead; in the meantime, will keep her in 'rain made', add foam grips & a cramp buster. Finesse is a learned skill.

 

In the meantime, these should help:

i-tW5h4Dd

i-kGZvxNh

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swmckinley

I have been riding my new to me 16 RTW for a week now, about 500 miles. It had 3,100 miles on her when I bought her. I keeping remarking to myself while riding that this is the smoothest bike (twin) I have ever ridden. The only one smoother was the FJR. Just my experience.

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There's no question that the throttles on the wetheads are more sensitive, for a number of reasons, as people have already pointed out. I moved from a 2006 RT to a '15 GSA, and the difference was immediately apparent (especially on the test ride at the dealer's). It took a few miles on the new bike, once I got it home, to get used to those differences (like the smaller diameter grips), but get used to it I did. I think all it takes is more practice. Why not go to a big, empty parking lot, and try starting off in 1st, from a dead stop?. Then repeat as many times as you can. Then try it shifting up to 2nd etc.

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Yes, hyperness most pronounced in 'road' mode. Havent played with 'dynamic ' yet. Will experiment with 'rain' mode more.

Got Grip Puppies-- love 'em. A friend suggested a fat o-ring between twist & bar end or a throttle rocker to releve some of the throttle spring tension.

"The bike just don't like goin slow, officer."

But I still don't think this throttle hyperness is healthy for driver or drive train.

speaking of grip puppies how do you get them off after installing with hairspray? sorry for the hijack....

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Charles Elms

Take a look at Grip Buddies in the product review section. You can install and take off at will because they use Velcro to attach. Sometimes I want them, sometimes I don't(like getting max heat in the winter).

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Yes I agree, the grips are too thin the Grip Buddies http://www.originalbeemerbuddies.com/ make up for the difference between the grip size of the older BMW's to the Wethead and feel great! I didn't feel any difference in heat from the grip after adding grip buddies, they still get plenty warm.

 

Jay

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Your right hand will "re-calibrate" given enough time or miles. It took about 6K miles on my '15 GS but suddenly I stopped thinking about it, because it was no longer an issue. I also rode in rain mode for those initial miles to help in the issue.

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Your right hand will "re-calibrate" given enough time or miles. It took about 6K miles on my '15 GS but suddenly I stopped thinking about it, because it was no longer an issue. I also rode in rain mode for those initial miles to help in the issue.
I really didn't find that it took any time to get used to the throttle. I had a bad experience on my first ride, home from the dealer. I posted about it here previously, but the short version is that I dropped the bike riding up a ramp into my house because of control issues with the throttle and power. Since then I have had more respect for the throttle and haven't had any other issues. I did pull an unexpected wheelie once leaving a toll station, but it was minor. The front wheel came up an inch or two. It made me wonder if the Automatic Stability Control prevents true sustained wheelies, but I have never been tempted to test it.
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Are you riding with a stiff upper body and arms, or with death grip on the bars. If you say yes, that will certainly negatively impact throttle control as any bump will be fed right through your body to the throttle. Practice supporting your weight with your core muscles. Keep your upper body and arms loose. A light hold on the grips makes your wrists more supple as well....and likely reduce the blisters too. This will break the jostling feedback through your body and help you achieve smooth throttle control

 

As I have gotten older and less flexible I have found I need to think about and practice keeping my upper body, arms and wrists loose. When I rode open class dirt bikes as a young guy I learned these tricks for good throttle control. Picking my bruised butt up off the dirt made for a very unforgiving teacher.

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Move your right hand so the little finger is on the bar end weight, gives your hand more stability until your used to the throttle.

 

I had the same problem, this works.

 

Your limp wrist will go away :grin:

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Go to the dealer, ask to ride a demo. Set the demo on Road. If it does the same thing it is highly likely rider input...if the demo doesn't do it, then I would ask them to look at your bike. All I can add is don't hold it like a baseball bat. Open your palm and just lay your fingers across the top..

 

 

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I had a couple WC

Can't say I was a big fan... but they didn't noticeably surge.

 

Back in 2003-4, I owned a 2002 R1150 RT... now that surged.

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BeemerBerg

PROBLEM SOLVED!!

 

It wasn't my riding style (I have over 400K BMW experience). IT WAS THE BIKE.

 

Long Story:

I bought the bike at Gateway BMW in St Louis (great people!). It was a 2016 RT/LC demo bike with only 400 miles on the clock. They made me a great deal, and my wife was anxious to visit her sister in NW Arkansas. We rode her CanAm Spyder 2-up from Utah to St Louis to pick up the bike. [Not a bad touring bike, 'cept they don't lean]

 

After closing the deal, we spent a week visiting her family and riding the Ozarks (great roads, miserable bike). It was then I found myself having a hard time bonding to this new bike. Throttle seemed too sensitive, I couldn't find a comfortable setting on the D-ESA, and every road imperfection was being transmitted to my spine. I was blaming the fly-by-wire throttle & powerful engine. But I was just coming off a 2010 RT with well-tuned Wilburs suspension, and was looking forward to the renowned ride of the new wethead.

 

On the ride home (Arkansas to Utah) I was trying everything to make the bike rideable--sheepskin, gel pads on the seat, other MacGiver tricks. But some of those roads in Oklahoma & Texas felt like they had speed bumps paved into them every 10 feet. And don't get me started on the crappy roads on Tribal Lands.

 

When we got into New Mexico, I called the nearby BMW dealer to see if they can squeeze my bike in for a look-over. I can't say enough good about the folks at Sandia BMW in Albuquerque--the Service Manager, Shane, was able to get me in, and also noticed that the suspension was not right. He plugged the bike into the magic BMW computer system, and recalibrated everything back to factory specs. Seemed that he ride height calibration was way off. I took it for a test ride, and WOW---I HAD A BRAND NEW MOTORCYCLE!! On top of that he insisted that they wash the bike.

 

You know how the new wetheads have zero suspension response when you first sit on them (key off), and they "wake up" when you turn the bike on? Well, my bikes shocks were not fully awake, and thus everything was being magnified through the frame: road conditions, throttle response, horsepower, etc.

 

My guess is that as a demo bike, it was ridden AGGRESSIVELY by test riders. Gateway BMW did a thorough detailing on the bike--it looked gorgeous. They had done the 600 mile service, but was not reviewed on their BMW service computer, which would have revealed the ride height out of adjustment. I should have done a more thorough test drive of the bike myself.

 

All good now. 3,000 miles on the clock, and actually bonding to the wethead. Thanks to all.

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Great news that the issues are solved. I am surprised by how much the software parameters were so out of whack, and frankly that the system allows that amount of adjustability. Maybe the upside is that sometime down the line a niche business in personalized custom tuning would be available to center your preferences. Just have to wait for someone to do a more powerful hack of the software.

 

I think the questions about riding style were because your experience was so askew from the norm , and at least for me, not realizing how far the software can be dialed out of normal parameters. Anyway, I'm glad you knew we assumed wrongly on operator vs machine, found the solution, and are now enjoying the new boxer platform. The terrible alternative was for you to assume the wethead fans were all wet and proclaim the new bike a regression from the older platform.

 

Happy trails!

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realshelby

Demo bike ridden aggressively? Maybe so, but honestly that should have zero effect on the problems you were seeing. Think of the lost sales the dealer may have from a bike not properly set up for demo use!

 

I would bet money the bike was never serviced at 600 miles. I would love to see the bike hooked up and check where the service indicator is set to come on. If at around 5600 miles, it was never serviced.

 

Not the bikes fault and I really doubt the 600 mile oil change has much effect on the bike ( cars certainly don't have that, our Jaguar first oil change was at around 15,000 miles....) but more of a chance for the dealer to begin a service routine.

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Not sure how to loosen yours, but if you use a air tool off a air compressor and blow on the end they fly on in about 5 seconds, no muss no fuss.

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