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Aggressive riding behavior


Hog_Man

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My rant today concerns aggressive and dangerous riding behavior. My wife, as passenger, and I are out for a leisurely ride through the countryside. Beautiful warm day here in Montana/Idaho, finally after so many 'rain days' in a row, Spring finally starts to dry out. Our trip brought us into Wallace, ID for a gas stop before proceeding up into the hills on 9 Mile Creek Road. This is a beautiful windy road up through the mountains that eventually comes out at Thompson Falls, MT..

Our gas stop was at a 'former' Exxon station in town. I noticed a couple of bikes parked at the end of the station but gave them no mind really, as the riders were absent and probably inside the station. My wife and I shared a refreshing cold drink then mounted up on our Harley to head on up into the mountains. We drove around a couple city blocks to find 9 Mile Creek Road and as we came around a corner to the road entrance we noticed these two riders in the alley to our left. We proceeded up the rural type road which was marked as a 40MPH area. These two riders, one on a KTM Adventure and the other on a Kawasaki Concours passed us well over the posted speed limit over double yellow lines. Noticed Oregon plates on both. OK, a little aggressive, maybe, but clearly passing illegally and exceeding local speed limits for the area with several homes along the route.

We continued out pace up into the mountains never seeing these two riders, or any other riders on a Tuesday... Work day for most I suspect.

We found the two riders parked along the road at Murray, ID. with a third rider. We waved as we rode by them...

So here is where I have MY issue; I noticed these two riders coming up behind me as we are snaking around some tight mountain turns and I slow a bit to allow them to overtake us on the Harley, suspecting they will pass us yet again on a double yellow lane marking and I wasn't disappointed that the lead rider (he was always in the lead) came around us just before we were entering a left hand tight mountain corner. His follower started passing us IN THE BLIND TURN, double yellow lane markings and IN THE OTHER LANE! I backed off my throttle right away waiting for that oncoming vehicle that would wipe this guy, and probably us, off the mountain road.

Further down in the valley, road construction had forced all vehicles to stop and we pulled up behind these two asshats on sport bikes. I didn't say or do anything as the safety of my wife was paramount in my mind. I am armed with a sidearm, as I usually am on the bike, and my mouth could have stated a bad day for everyone.

Conclusion; give your right-of-way to aggressive riders and hope they take themselves out someday without taking someone else along with them.

 

Next time, I will say something, and will not be pleasant day for them....

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They probably had intercom and the lead rider told his buddy it was clear to pass.

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Next time, I will say something, and will not be pleasant day for them....

 

Not worth it unless your life is in imminent danger. Would imagine jail sucks and there ain't no Harleys in there. :read:

 

Better thought, what do you think about the new Milwaukee-Eight? So close to pulling the trigger. No, the other trigger! :rofl:

 

Pat

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IMHO, Milwaukee Eight does not have enough time in service to judge. Live with an extended warranty after first one ages out. Talk with independent shops for a clearer picture of riders concerns.

Oh, and especially on twisty mountain roads your life is in continuously in imminent danger WITHOUT other riders nearby...

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IMHO, Milwaukee Eight does not have enough time in service.

 

 

Oh, and especially on twisty mountain roads your life is in continuously in imminent danger WITHOUT other riders nearby...

 

I've Beta Tested a few BMWs' so, I have calluses. :grin:

 

And how, you should try following Bill Ferran down Black Bear... :eek::grin:

 

Pat

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I am blessed to have a cabin at Lake Winfield Scott which is only 6 miles from TWO. There are times when I go there in the cage and frequently GA Hwy 60 is used for a replacement for Road Atlanta. One such day I was behind a slower vehicle and two came up quickly and in the same manner as your experience except one went between my passenger side and the guard rail and the other on the inside. Two absolute idiots. Fate will someday nail them.

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Good rant, and understandable.

 

Still, this makes me think of that famous George Carlin quip: “Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? Get outta my way you IDIOT. Whoa, did you see that - that guy's a MANIAC!"

 

Two riders = a group, and group riding lends itself to such behavior. I bet #2 guy was just trying to keep up with #1 guy when he made the silly move to pass you that could have ended him.

 

So, don't shoot the #2 guy. Shoot the #1 guy.

 

 

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No, there were no comms on either rider... Noted that at our construction stop...

 

Are you certain, some of the newer stuff is completely inside the helmet.

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My wife thinks it might have been a father/son duo.

Like father, like son?

 

After we were escorted through the construction area, about 2 miles , the 'son' was standing on his footpegs, ala dual sport rider style... on a cruiser...

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... I am armed with a sidearm, as I usually am on the bike, and my mouth could have stated a bad day for everyone...

 

So...you're going to slap leather because you consider someone to be an asshat?

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roadscholar

 

So, don't shoot the #2 guy. Shoot the #1 guy.

 

 

Heck shoot 'em both, they passed on a double yellow right : )

 

The good news is nobody got hurt, by traffic or firearm. Sounds like a case of bad timing to me. Learned a valuable lesson years ago from a racing buddy. I was in a qualifying session and getting hung up by a gaggle of slower cars and came in all pissed off because I couldn't get a good time. My buddy said, just calm down and drive thru the pits, when you come back out they'll be somewhere else.

 

Likely it couldn't have been foreseen in this case but something to ponder in the future.

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Dennis Andress

Next time, I will say something, and will not be pleasant day for them....

 

I like that. Stupidity should be painful. Bear in mind that goes both ways.

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I am pretty sure that at this point, these riders, who are obviously the reason we can't have nice things, have been cursed at, flipped off, shot, shot at, threatened, glared at, slammed into, ran off the road, run over, and what ever else someone can dish out as true justice for passing on the right and or cutting someone off.

 

Note to self.

Add body armor to the Un trip list....

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They passed simultaneously, one on the inside and the other near the guard rail. Not all will attempt the pass on the right but most pay no heed to a double yellow line. There are old rider and bold riders but very few old and bold.

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John Ranalletta

Were there 3 riders, I would have thought, "3 Amigos", but, nah. They can't still be riding.

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John in VA
... I am armed with a sidearm, as I usually am on the bike, and my mouth could have stated a bad day for everyone...

 

So...you're going to slap leather because you consider someone to be an asshat?

 

:lurk:

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As a side note. My belief is that guns bring the trouble with them. I was a tournament shooter, very comfortable around guns, so I'm not anti gun by any means. I am armed to the teeth. When you carry your attitude is different, you will do and act differently than if you are unarmed. Just saying.

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And always in the lead. That's why I advocate aiming for the guy in front!

 

farsidebears.jpg

 

Very, very, very tough crowd.

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When you carry your attitude is different, you will do and act differently than if you are unarmed. Just saying.

 

Completely, 100%, disagree. When I carry, my attitude toward my surroundings are no different than when I don't carry.

 

 

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Shiny Side Up
When you carry your attitude is different, you will do and act differently than if you are unarmed. Just saying.

 

Completely, 100%, disagree. When I carry, my attitude toward my surroundings are no different than when I don't carry.

 

 

I agree - it's a last DEFENSIVE resort when everything else has failed and your life is in danger of being lost or you're about to suffer "great bodily harm".

 

If not then don't carry at all.

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FWIW. A few thoughts on biking idiots. I agree that morons who totally disregard safety are a hazard to more than themselves. A bike can be a lethal weapon and as dangerous as a loaded gun. I take it very personal when someone puts my life at risk just so they can get a rush. That's why I won't carry a gun.

Double yellow lnes....... I don't categorically let them restrict my passsing. I have two criteria for passing, regardless of road stripes. 1). IS IT SAFE ? What is my sight line, are there intersections, driveways, houses, pedestrians ? Double yellows could be a warning these things exist. If it is safe and I can pass with enough time to avoid a pucker moment if an oncoming vehicle appears, I pass. Right? WRONG ! The other consideration is, not just do I consider it safe, but will the person I am passing consider it safe. Will the passed vehicle be startled, scared, feel that I am endangering their life ? Other drivers won't respect bikes if they think bikers don't respect them. I try to ride with the thought that if I meet the other drivers at a stop, we would have a good conversation, not an argument..As I said, For what it's worth. Ride safe.

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Well, many is the time I've found myself chugging along behind an HD breathing fumes and listening to the sound of thunder wishing the guy could at least come close to the speed limit but ohhhhh noooooo..... So yup I've been known to pass where by rights I shouldn't have. Oh, and guess where I'm from. Hint: I have yellow plates.

 

Oregon native since 1943

Edited by JamesW
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You can ride with a side arm?

 

Not criticising - Where I'm from guns are heavily controlled. Only the bad guys have 'em (if you know whst I mean) :D

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John in VA
You can ride with a side arm?

 

Not criticising - Where I'm from guns are heavily controlled. Only the bad guys have 'em (if you know whst I mean) :D

 

2010-05-26_1908.png

 

Open-carry-courtesy-armoryblog.com_.jpg

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greiffster

Open-carry-courtesy-armoryblog.com_.jpg

 

Some folks carry guns. Some folks ATGATT. I try and stay out of it. But, I was building a deck years ago and had a Fat Max tape measure stuck on the side of my hip, in a similar position to the handgun in that photo. I slipped and fell on some 2X and landed on it. It hurt like hell and bruised the crap out of my side. I can't imagine what that hunk of metal might due to you in a wreck. Or maybe you just have a slow speed tip-over on the right side. FWIW.

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Joe Frickin' Friday
Open-carry-courtesy-armoryblog.com_.jpg

 

I think a rider riding with a sidearm, unarmored pants, and sneakers is afraid of the wrong things; it's rare to hear of a rider involved in a gunfight, much more common to hear about one that crashed.

 

I can't imagine what that hunk of metal might due to you in a wreck.

 

+1. I try to avoid having anything in my pockets when I ride; my cell phone is pretty flat, and I still am uneasy about keeping it on me.

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Seen the damage from cell phones et al after crashes.

Can be serious.

Keep it all in the tankbag if you're smart.

Right next to the gun...

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Shiny Side Up
Seen the damage from cell phones et al after crashes.

Can be serious.

Keep it all in the tankbag if you're smart.

Right next to the gun...

^^^ THIS ^^^

I have also seen the damage from keys, pocket knives, ink pens, etc.

Not good... Besides, I prefer concealed and not advertising...

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blackbrick

 

I think a rider riding with a sidearm, unarmored pants, and sneakers is afraid of the wrong things; it's rare to hear of a rider involved in a gunfight, much more common to hear about one that crashed.

 

 

plus...with proper riding gloves...at least the ones I have, would be hard to draw a sidearm and get a finger through the trigger guard..

 

easier to just smile, nod, roll on the throttle and continue to enjoy the day.

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I think a rider riding with a sidearm, unarmored pants, and sneakers is afraid of the wrong things; it's rare to hear of a rider involved in a gunfight, much more common to hear about one that crashed.

 

Mitch, my thoughts exactly when I first saw those photos. Don't​ lecture me about "personal protection" when you're flying down the road in a track suit and gym shoes...or a half-lid. As they say, image is everything.

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roadriderg

"Conclusion; give your right-of-way to aggressive riders and hope they take themselves out someday without taking someone else along with them."

 

You never know their mindset or capability's. Unless you are in danger stay clear. Why mess with your own karma. Enjoy the ride.

 

 

 

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When I was young; I road enduros and always thought that those that had tool pouches, butt packs were riding with their own rock in the event of a high or low side event. Side arm couldn't be much different.

 

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If, if, if,...you can never take all the "if's" out (as in "if" I fall) and some choose to accept certain "if's" while others choose different "if's" to prepare against.

 

Even motogp riders don't "ATGATT" for the street:

 

rossi-rides-ducati-1198-street-bike-at-silverstone-35402_2.jpg

 

Looks to be gloves and a helmet,.....he may be wearing a vest underneath, but my SWAG would be a no.

 

To each their own in their own riding styles.

 

Enjoy!

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Joe Frickin' Friday
If, if, if,...you can never take all the "if's" out (as in "if" I fall) and some choose to accept certain "if's" while others choose different "if's" to prepare against.

 

Even motogp riders don't "ATGATT" for the street:

 

It's true that not all riders avail themselves of all protective measures - but there's something illogical about protecting against a one-in-a-million hazard (by carrying a weapon on one's hip while riding) while foregoing protection against a one-in-ten-thousand hazard (by eschewing boots and armored riding pants).

 

I have no doubt that there are riders out there who were (or would have been) saved by riding with a gun on their hip, but I haven't yet met one. OTOH, I know many riders who were (or would have been) saved from crash damage by wearing good head-to-toe riding gear.

 

If you've got $500 to burn, and you're wondering what to buy that will be most likely to save your hide - gun, or pants/boots - go with the pants/boots.

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Good point.

And, many have others depending on them for income, family, etc.

"individual" risk often isn't all about just the individual having the consequences affect them.

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It's true that not all riders avail themselves of all protective measures - but there's something illogical about protecting against a one-in-a-million hazard (by carrying a weapon on one's hip while riding) while foregoing protection against a one-in-ten-thousand hazard (by eschewing boots and armored riding pants).

 

Illogical in whose opinion, yours or the riders? What is illogical to you (and others here) is completely logical to others. We all feel that OUR common sense should be the common sense of those around us. Just look at her ride, nod your head and let her go.

 

 

I have no doubt that there are riders out there who were (or would have been) saved by riding with a gun on their hip, but I haven't yet met one. OTOH, I know many riders who were (or would have been) saved from crash damage by wearing good head-to-toe riding gear.

 

No doubt, the odds are in the favor of falling, but the odds of needing a weapon still exist, otherwise weapons wouldn't exists. Some folks play different odds.

 

If you've got $500 to burn, and you're wondering what to buy that will be most likely to save your hide - gun, or pants/boots - go with the pants/boots.

 

But if you are without the weapon and the time comes that you need it,....what will those pants/boots do for you?

 

Lastly, someone should invite Rossi to visit this board so he can be schooled on the proper gear to wear while street riding ;)

 

Good point.

And, many have others depending on them for income, family, etc.

"individual" risk often isn't all about just the individual having the consequences affect them.

 

So,...is no family type person to pursue anything that has any chance of causing death or serious bodily harm (jobs, hobbies or otherwise)?

 

As I stated,..if, if, if's, some people choose to accept certain if's.

 

 

Edited by Living the Dream
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John in VA
... there's something illogical about protecting against a one-in-a-million hazard (by carrying a weapon on one's hip while riding) ...

 

One-in-a-million may be generous. I guess it would take a lot of data crunching to determine how many instances of openly-armed-motorcyclists-shooting-a-bad-guy-per-openly-armed-motorcyclist-miles-driven vs. unarmed-motorcyclist-miles-driven-resulting-in-injury/attack-by-bad-guy. :)

 

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Joe Frickin' Friday
Illogical in whose opinion, yours or the riders?

 

It's not a matter of opinion. The statistics are quite clear on this: in any given time period, the number of riders involved in violent encounters with hostile individuals is vanishingly small compared to the number of riders involved in violent encounters with the pavement.

 

I suppose absolute maximum safety might be conferred by wearing ATGATT AND carrying a sidearm (though there's still the question about being injured by falling on your own gun during a crash), but that's not what we're talking about here: we're talking about either choosing to carry a gun, or choosing to wear riding pants/boots. My assumption (yeah, I know...) is that a rational rider, in considering what safety gear to buy/use, seeks to maximize their safety within the limits of their budget. $500 spent on pants/boots will improve one's odds of coming home intact by a much greater amount than $500 spent on a sidearm and holster.

 

The only explanations I can see for choosing to ride with a gun instead of moto pants/boots are:

  • the rider is factually misinformed about what things are most likely to injure him/her; this would be a logical decision, but based on faulty data.


  • the rider somehow finds moto pants/boots to be a greater physical inconvenience/discomfort than riding with a sidearm. That's a real issue; OTOH, I don't have to take my pants off every time I encounter a "no guns allowed" sign in a restaurant or gas station. :grin: Moreover, this doesn't change the fact that moto pants/boots improve a rider's safety more than a sidearm.

  • the rider is making a gun-versus-pants/boots decision based on emotion rather than on a reasoned assessment of the hazards (i.e. "I know what the stats are on the relative frequencies of crashes and fights, but I just feel better when I've got my gun with me"). This is an irrational/illogical decision.

 

But if you are without the weapon and the time comes that you need it,....what will those pants/boots do for you?

 

This is like seat belt opponents who avoid wearing their seat belt so they can make a rapid exit if they crash into a lake: it ignores the data indicating which events are more/less likely to occur. Pants/boots won't help in a gunfight, but a gun won't help in a crash - and a crash is, by a gigantic margin, the more likely event.

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