Drive shaft fail

On a trip this month I experienced what I thought was a final drive failure in Eastern WV ,fortunately once the dealer ( Hermy's in Port Clinton PA ) took things apart it turned out to be the front universal joint on the drive shaft. My bike is a 2014 R1200RT with 73,879 miles on it so it was definitely out of warranty , fortunately I had purchased the extended warranty insurance which will pay for repairs.

Sorry to hear about the failure. I am sure the internet will call it a "final drive failure". Still looks like the new Wetheads have a very good reliability/repair record.

My 2014 RT is still under warranty, bought in September 2014. I was not aware of a mileage limit on the warranty?

Warranty is three years or 36,000 miles whichever comes first.

Apparently, that is not uncommon with the wethead GS crowds! It seem that those who runs in the water a lot have to be careful about this, and check things out! Have you ever gotten inside the drive assembly at any times? If so, and you hadn't replace the rubber boot correctly, you can fall prey to this issue. You can learn more by looking at this excellent pictorials, as composed by JVB: http://www.jimvonbaden.com/R1200_Wethead_FD.html

Scroll down to see the pictures of rusty u-joint!

Apparently, that is not uncommon with the wethead GS crowds! Scroll down to see the pictures of rusty u-joint!

Looking at this article reminds me of why my dreamcycle gets rid of the complex, expensive, power-grabbing drive shaft with its need for u-joints, bevel gears, water-proofing demands and required maintenance for the elegantly effective, power-efficient, clean, maintenance-free belt final drive. I don't ride thru water nor much gravel so give me a robust well designed belt drive every single time. It was one of the reasons I appreciated the F800GT I came off of for RTW. By the time RTW gets too heavy for me I'm hoping someone comes out w/ a LUXURY sport tourer, 105hp, belt-driven, electric screen and all the tech you can throw at it all in a maximum 525lb form factor. I can't see BMW going there but haven't lost hope for Honda or Suzuki to go there and address this currently hidden market share. If n when it debuts many of the 1-up RT/Connie/ST folks will be scrambling to order up one when they learn they can have it all: performance, tech, comfort, luxury, sans the additional weight. Besides just plain being smart the belt drive loses considerable weight over shaft and this helps this concept meet its weight reduction goal with little to no downside for riding on pavement. I took my FGT thru gravel several times and had no troubles and if the belt drive design is there trapping a piece of rock between teeth and cog will be exceedingly rare.

Well, we should just outlaw shaft drive!

Belt drives fail too. Some belt drives are a REAL pita to change! Chains fail too and are a real pita to keep maintained during there 20-40,000 mile lifespan.

Now I might agree that a dream bike with electric motors in each wheel assembly, thereby negating a drive line of any type, might be good!

Well, we should just outlaw shaft drive!

 

Belt drives fail too.

Now there's a compelling response, outlaw shaft drive--good one.

Of course belts fail like everything else, and before they do they provide efficient, quiet, maintenance free, clean power to the rear wheel. Belt first by a long shot for street, shaft next, chain last for me. If an engineer designs an inadequate belt drive that has poor longevity and is hard to change, well that's just a crappy design and has nothing to do with it being a belt. There is nothing inherent about a belt drive that's going to make a PITA to change-- FGT's belt was a breeze to change, and though recommended to change out at 24K routinely went 32-48K.

Well, we should just outlaw shaft drive!

 

Belt drives fail too. Some belt drives are a REAL pita to change! Chains fail too and are a real pita to keep maintained during there 20-40,000 mile lifespan.

 

Now I might agree that a dream bike with electric motors in each wheel assembly, thereby negating a drive line of any type, might be good!

You right! These shaft drives are truly a pita! Mine keeps getting dirty after a long ride.

GT

ummm, there are other question that this post brings to the party.

The OP has a bike with over 70k miles on the clock. what is the maintenance history? and had the universal joint ever been lubricated? and... an associated question is has the final drive been serviced? Was this an owner-serviced bike?, a fleet bike?, was maintenance done at a dealership?

( if it was done at a dealer there will be a record in the service history that the big BMW computer in the sky keeps a record of.) If it were me I would ask the service manager to print out the service history... for me to see.

Most of the time if I serviced the final drive I took a look at the U-Joint since it was easy, convenient and all you had to do was pull the boot back to see if everything looked OK.

Something funny here and I don't mean humerous.

???

I will watch the posts with the rest and adjust my maintainance protocols acordingly....I am sure BMW will issue service advisories as warranted as well.

Fact is reliability is excellent for belt, chain, and shaft final drives. It is human nature to jump on line and discuss a failed drive unit. Sometimes there are design flaws uncovered if there is a clear trend of a number of the same failure and either the DOT or the company themselves executes a recall, but given the number of units out it is pretty rare. What drives the design choices, is both engineering and market forces. Which is the right application for each segment and what sells in the market and can it be done within the target price. High power machines don't use a belt because the width of belt needed to be reliable would force a wider frame, narrower tire or both, offsetting the advantage of weight savings. The good old chain drives gets the nod. Belt if clearly a great choice for street bikes with lower to moderate power offering a clean, quiet, efficient and light solution. Shaft drive has unsprung weight issues but works for bikes going hundreds of thousand miles and with regular oil changes and extremely infrequent inspection can last decades. All the 60 and 70 BMWs are mostly are running the original parts. Lastly asking a premium price for a European motorcycle needs to consider brand identity. BMW, using a chain makes their machine more like other offers from Triump, Ducati, Aprilla etc.

One comment on lost efficiency of the shaft vs chain/belt. True enough for motors mounted with a transverse crankshaft, but in the case of the boxer motor with a longitudinal crank, the power will need to be turned 90 degrees once no mater the final drive used so power loss would be about the same. I think the waterhead has about an 8% loss from crank to rear wheel HP, I don't think a belt on an RT would better that by much if any.

IMHO, I'll take the reliability and ease of maintainance of shaft on the RT, change the oil every year and not worry about a belt change at 50K where the swing arm needs to be removed. I accept the penalty of unsprung weight, but that penalty is offset by the Paralever taming the squat/anti-squat affects you need deal with with any final drive arrangement.

High power machines don't use a belt because the width of belt needed to be reliable would force a wider frame, narrower tire or both, offsetting the advantage of weight savings.

Harley Davidson--certainly big torque and not exactly narrow tires, and have huge curb weight to have to propel. Wider frame you are saying comes into play perhaps.

One comment on lost efficiency of the shaft vs chain/belt. True enough for motors mounted with a transverse crankshaft, but in the case of the boxer motor with a longitudinal crank, the power will need to be turned 90 degrees once no mater the final drive used so power loss would be about the same.

My dreamcycle which I have described many times avoids the boxer engine for this reason and also I'm intrigued by turbine-smooth engine designs, so yes belt is not for all designs. I was spoiled by FGT's design of elegant efficiency and that particular bike has a HP rating of 90 and a curb weight of 470, so to increase HP to 105 and weight to 525lbs I don't think obviates the weight savings over the long and heavy dynamically turning drive line, u-joint, bevel gears and housing, nor would demand a significantly wider frame.

These are all good points but in everything I appreciate engineering-wise I've always been moved by simple but effective design approaches.

Bob,

Did it completely fail all at once or were there any signs?

Alan

My RT has always been maintained by the dealer where I purchased it and I'm positive it was done per the BMW schedule.

I don't know why the universal joint failed but after riding motorcycles for over fifty years I have learned to accept mechanical failures as part of the ride.

It wasn't a complete failure all at once , I noticed an unfamiliar noise and excessive vibration before pulling into the visitor center in Eastern WV to investigate . Once I put the bike on the center stand ,started the engine , put it in gear and let out the clutch I knew it was time to quit riding.

Thanks.

Bob thanks for report....I think this is the first significant issue I've heard of (since the shock recall) for the RT LC's... I'm coming up on 20k on my 2014RT.

Anyone else have that 70K plus on an RT LC or had any significant failures?

So far so good.

fortunately I had purchased the extended warranty insurance which will pay for repairs.

Curious what the repair cost was.

I don't think I'd call it an issue, the dealer said this was the first failed drive shaft they have had, I wouldn't put in the same category as the rear shock recall, some times mechanical parts fail.

The total bill was $1,344.35 of which I paid $124.68 to cover the deductible and state sales tax. If I remember correctly I paid $1,150 for the four year extended warranty ,looks like I made a good decision .

Bob thanks for report....I think this is the first significant issue I've heard of (since the shock recall) for the RT LC's... I'm coming up on 20k on my 2014RT.

 

Anyone else have that 70K plus on an RT LC or had any significant failures?

 

So far so good.

I have seen some verified reports of camshaft issues. I talked with a Colorado State Trooper that was over the Motor fleet and they had had a couple early model Wetheads with failed cams and I have seen a couple reports from GS owners. Probably quality control on hardening, but who knows...Certainly not a high incidence problem. The Wethead is exactly what BMW needed. Seems to be a VERY good all around package, especially concerning failures that leave one stranded along the road. Which is my measure of reliability above ALL others....

The total bill was $1,344.35 of which I paid $124.68 to cover the deductible and state sales tax. If I remember correctly I paid $1,150 for the four year extended warranty ,looks like I made a good decision .

Yes you did--at least you've broken even so far so the rest is icing. Which warranty?

XtremeGuard service contract.

Administrator : ServiceGuard Systems,Inc. 34555 Chagrin Blvd, Suite 100 Moreland Hills, Ohio 44022 1-888-464-3774 .

I purchased mine through Hermy's BMW in Port Clinton, PA. where I purchased my 14RT.

If I'm still around and own my '16 RT when the bike hits around 70K I might swap in a new complete shaft for $1150 which is what they cost now including both u-joints. It sounds worth doing unless in the FD there are other vulnerabilities that happen w/ any regularity. It seems to me it would be the u-joints that probably are the weakest link, but I'm not really certain.

The question that nobody has ask is " why didn't BMW put zerk fittings in the u joints", there is enough clearance. The replacement one's that I pressed into my R1100 rt drive shaft have them and it's pretty easy to grease when you have the final drive off, and the notchy feel that the stock one had is gone, I've checked them a few times in the past 1 1/2 and they feel fine.

950-1100 dollars for a new drive shaft is a little much to take on a bike that's 10-15 years old.

I think if you have new u joints put in your drive shaft at say 50,000- 60,000 miles you will saved yourself a lot of time and headaches. Remember the shaft very rarely fails, But the bearings in the u joints will dry up and over time will fail.

My experience with drive shafts in trucks is that the ones with zerk fittings have a shorter life than the sealed units. Now I know the later ones that are sealed are high quality and that makes ALL the difference. Zerks allow you to push grease in, and where the grease comes out water and debris can get back in! In the somewhat enclosed environment of the BMW final drive assembly casing a U-joint should last a very long time. The problem will be....was it properly greased at all points before assembly? That will be the difference when it comes to those that fail and those that go 200,000+ miles. Not sure if you could remove the u-joints on these, but if you could do that you could clean them and reassemble with high quality grease and never worry about them failing.

The question that nobody has ask is " why didn't BMW put zerk fittings in the u joints", there is enough clearance. The replacement one's that I pressed into my R1100 rt drive shaft have them and it's pretty easy to grease when you have the final drive off, and the notchy feel that the stock one had is gone, I've checked them a few times in the past 1 1/2 and they feel fine.

950-1100 dollars for a new drive shaft is a little much to take on a bike that's 10-15 years old.

I think if you have new u joints put in your drive shaft at say 50,000- 60,000 miles you will saved yourself a lot of time and headaches. Remember the shaft very rarely fails, But the bearings in the u joints will dry up and over time will fail.

Morning njl4

Probably for the same reason that the car manufactures quit installing grease fittings on the drive shaft u joints.

Cost & the very looming possibility that improper greasing techniques or improper grease would be used.

The company that I work found a lot of problems with greasable bearings & joints as people would just squirt any old grease in & not clean the fittings first so would introduce dirt & grit into the bearing or joint.

Properly greased (with correct long-life U joint grease) at initial assembly then a U joint should last a very long time.

A few things can kill a U joint--like moisture being sucked into a quickly cooling hot U joint, but probably the biggest U joint killer is running a U joint at 0° working angle (something the BMW's can do under some circumstances)

DR, do you know if the u-joints can be removed on these drivelines? I ask because I don't hear of anyone replacing a u-joint? Honestly I would likely jump on mine the next service and inspect/clean/grease them should they be removable.

DR, do you know if the u-joints can be removed on these drivelines? I ask because I don't hear of anyone replacing a u-joint? Honestly I would likely jump on mine the next service and inspect/clean/grease them should they be removable.

Morning realshelby

Yes, not difficult to remove.

Now replacement is another story as the originals are staked in so the replacement's must be pressed in, then properly centered ( I slowly run the shaft centered up in my lathe with a dial indicator on it) then tap & re-center caps so shaft spins centered.

Then thin washers need to be lightly welded over the outside of the U joint caps (in the yoke) to hold them in place. Not a real difficult job if you have the equipment & welding know-how.

I was afraid of that. I didn't remember seeing any circlips or other centering device. Is that u-joint a BMW service part or do you get those from a driveline supply store?

I have the equipment and confidence to do the job. But I am thinking an inspection, looking for the signs of death of a u-joint, every 12K or so might be prudent. And a lot less work. Deal with the u-joint if/when signs of wear are apparent.

I was afraid of that. I didn't remember seeing any circlips or other centering device. Is that u-joint a BMW service part or do you get those from a driveline supply store?

Afternoon realshelby

No BMW part as BMW doesn't service the U joints separately.

They are a somewhat common U joint just not easy to source from most supply houses.

I w-a-s buying the U joints from a local clutch, gear, dive shaft company but they went out of business a short while back so I will have to look for another source (I believe they were getting the U joints from a supplier in Wisconsin).

That's the only way you can do it on my 14RT , the u-joints are not removable ,there is no retaining ring ,they can't be dismantled , at least not on the 14RT. The complete shaft was replaced on my bike not just the u-joints. Have pictures but don't have the means to post them on this site, could send to anyone interested just send me your e-mail address .

I am a bit shocked at the conversation inferring a shaft should be a service item. They have not been a service item on previous iterations of the R series (at least in the last 20 odd years) so why now? yes there have been the odd failure, but we are talking about the odd one.

+1

Not sure a odd one or even three failures is anything for anyone to worry about.

Since you can not service it it is only an inspection open to interpretation of how experienced you are as a wrench. And then a replacement unless you have the shop and the tools and the access to them to even think about a rebuild.

I am not going to go out and buy one as I did a FD for my LT.

I mean is it as prevalent as a ABS unit going out? I am not stocking one of those either.

I think it is great information and something to look out for but I think too rare to worry about and spoil any ride giving it a thought.

All bets are off if it shows up more and more which would lead me to believe inferior product or bad design or they slipped some of those India made parts into the line?

My sentiment exactly, Andy!

Bob H. said:

Have pictures but don't have the means to post them on this site, could send to anyone interested just send me your e-mail address .