Slipper Clutch, always on?

I've been admiring them since they came out but haven't been at a point where one could be a possibility. Currently on a 05.

Times have changed and I took a test ride on a used 14 with 29k on the clock at a local dealer.

Love the nimble ride, increased power, and added amenities, compared to the 05 but not overwhelmed with the access to them via the turn wheel. Granted it was a quick study and seemed intuitive to me but flipping through a screen in a cage is one thing exposed on a bike is another. Also the turn signal switch was problematic for me at best. Sure after a bit of ownership both would probably go away as it becomes more familiar.

All that said the biggest, to me, glitch was the clutch. It seemed no matter what mode (Rain, Road, Dynamic)I had it in it reacted the same, slip to high heaven. Is that what current owners feel in their rides? Dealer says it's normal but I'm not confident that is the case.

I know I should test ride a new one to see if that is 'norm' but haven't had the time to compare yet so thought I'd ask the crew here.

I've search and don't see any 'hits' on it here.

There is zero clutch slip in mine. I am at 28,000 miles and the clutch has been one of the best engineered parts of the new Wethead as far as I am concerned. On the other hand, I have not heard of any clutch slippage issues so I wonder exactly what you may have been experiencing.

no slippage on mine. clutch is a tremendous improvement over all other BMW's I've owned from air to oil. Some folks have reported it engages slightly different after it warms up but I haven't experienced that either. It's so much easier to pull.... no more burning on a hill...and with hill start hold, that makes it the cats meow.

The slipper clutch is to prevent wheel hop or chatter during agressive downshifting.

It allows one to downshift say, an extra gear without the danger of locking up or skipping the rear wheel to allow harder harder acceration out of a corner.

It has nothing to do with acceration up through the gears. 1-2-3-4-5-6.

I had to change the setting on the clutch lever to get the right feel for me. that could also be a possibility. Otherwise no slippage, and yes the turn signals and the wonder wheel all begin to feel normal after awhile

No problems on either my 14, after putting 22000 on in 2 years. Or my 16 model. Just finished a 2100 mile trip around Europe, bike ran as sweet as could be.

If you are feeling the clutch slip, then the bike has a clutch issue! That has nothing to do with the slipper-clutch design.

I went from an '07 RT to the wethead, and yes I prefers the paddles turn indicators of the '07, but you do get used to the more conventional style turn signal switch of the wethead. I still prefer the paddles though!

Once you get used to the "wonderwheel", you will find it quite handy, and won't have to fiddle with it while on the move. What it takees is to be familiar where things are, and there is a "favorite" setting so that you can get to your "favorite" screen, which might or might not be the one that you use the most. You can establish the favorite selection while on the move very easily, so that, say you are riding in the cold, and pressing the button for the "favorite" screen will take you to the grip-heat setting.

Thanks guys for you input!

The clutch is slipping as you jam on the throttle for example onramp ont a fwy. Just slips like crazy until it sets in. Even though the dealer has said they have ran it like crazy and it works as its supposed to. Guess I will try the 2017 demo!

It may be a glitch in the lever actuation point but I didn't fiddle with that. Interesting that it's there to help with the downshifts.

On the nuances understandable they will fall into place. The wheel was already pretty easy to pickup on the short time I spent with it, and having a favorite worked in would help even more.

We'll see how the 17 works if it stops raining here.

Guess I will try the 2017 demo! The wheel was already pretty easy to pickup on the short time I spent with it, and having a favorite worked in would help even more.

Careful, the '17 has some nice additions too! Absolutely--the wonder wheel is really a great piece of engineering and once you understand the menus a little you're able to make wheel inputs w/o looking at the multi function display. Fantastic machine, I have a '16 w/ almost 24K miles now in 15 months and it just keeps getting better! I will be riding thru Vancouver OTW to Nor Cal in September it appears.

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The clutch is slipping as you jam on the throttle for example onramp ont a fwy. Just slips like crazy until it sets in. Even though the dealer has said they have ran it like crazy and it works as its supposed to. Guess I will try the 2017 demo!

 

It may be a glitch in the lever actuation point but I didn't fiddle with that. Interesting that it's there to help with the downshifts.

 

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Definitely something wrong with the clutch on that bike! I often accelerate hard, in particular while going up the highway's entry ramp, and there should never be any slippage at any times! There are no adjustments to the clutch, but one can adjust the lever's position in relation to the handlebar, and that's all.

The slipper clutch is to prevent wheel hop or chatter during agressive downshifting.

It allows one to downshift say, an extra gear without the danger of locking up or skipping the rear wheel to allow harder harder acceration out of a corner.

 

So, with the slipper clutch, is it necessary to blip the throttle when aggressively downshifting in order to match engine speed with new gear? I was not aware that my '16 RT had a slipper clutch. I have shift assist and I understand that this will happen automatically when downshifting but am curious is it's necessary if you downshift in the conventional manner.

The slipper clutch is to prevent wheel hop or chatter during agressive downshifting.

It allows one to downshift say, an extra gear without the danger of locking up or skipping the rear wheel to allow harder harder acceration out of a corner.

 

So, with the slipper clutch, is it necessary to blip the throttle when aggressively downshifting in order to match engine speed with new gear? I was not aware that my '16 RT had a slipper clutch. I have shift assist and I understand that this will happen automatically when downshifting but am curious is it's necessary if you downshift in the conventional manner.

A slipper clutch uses a set of ramps within the clutch mechanism that allows it to slip when rear wheel decelerates beyond an allowed limit. The ramps are one-way; think of a set of gear teeth that are slanted on one side and square on the other. If a clutch slips under acceleration, it isn't due to the slipper design. Professional set-ups allow you to vary the amount of force that will allow the clutch to slip under deceleration, but most stock set-ups require a pretty heavy hand to activate. Think going to a low gear at high speed and dumping the clutch.

I wonder if what the test rider felt was the traction control? If the engine revved and the bike didn't accelerate, that would be a clutch slip. If the engine stuttered or the acceleration slowed witihout the engine revs spiking, it was probably the TC.

Blipping the throttle was necessary before slipper clutches became widespread on stock bikes. If you have a slipper, you don't need to blip on downshift. I do, but that's just to maintain practice for riding non-slip equipped bikes.

The slipper clutch is to prevent wheel hop or chatter during agressive downshifting.

It allows one to downshift say, an extra gear without the danger of locking up or skipping the rear wheel to allow harder harder acceration out of a corner.

 

So, with the slipper clutch, is it necessary to blip the throttle when aggressively downshifting in order to match engine speed with new gear? I was not aware that my '16 RT had a slipper clutch. I have shift assist and I understand that this will happen automatically when downshifting but am curious is it's necessary if you downshift in the conventional manner.

 

A slipper clutch uses a set of ramps within the clutch mechanism that allows it to slip when rear wheel decelerates beyond an allowed limit. The ramps are one-way; think of a set of gear teeth that are slanted on one side and square on the other. If a clutch slips under acceleration, it isn't due to the slipper design. Professional set-ups allow you to vary the amount of force that will allow the clutch to slip under deceleration, but most stock set-ups require a pretty heavy hand to activate. Think going to a low gear at high speed and dumping the clutch.

 

I wonder if what the test rider felt was the traction control? If the engine revved and the bike didn't accelerate, that would be a clutch slip. If the engine stuttered or the acceleration slowed witihout the engine revs spiking, it was probably the TC.

 

Blipping the throttle was necessary before slipper clutches became widespread on stock bikes. If you have a slipper, you don't need to blip on downshift. I do, but that's just to maintain practice for riding non-slip equipped bikes.

Great description of how the slipper clutch works, BUT that has nothing to do with the blipping of the throttle on downshifts! Why? Rev-matching, or blipping the throttle on downshifts gives a smooth transition in going to lower gears, at a level well below when the slipper part of the clutch swings into action! So, if you want a smooth and noiseless downshifts, you still need to do the rev-matching!

Definitely something is amiss with that units clutch. A big red flag on this particular bike IMOHO.

Slipper function is to mitigate rear wheel hop from aggressive downshifts w/o RPM match during deceleration. An engineering fix to counter poor form, or for one less thing to get exactly right when racing at 10/10ths. Most touring type and even reasonable sport riding on the street would rarely ever activate that function.

Most complaints on the waterhead clutches have been around the centrifugal assist function as being inconsistent and grabby on engagement. This function allows a super light pull on the clutch lever while ensuring that the torque of the new motor does not allow slippage under acceleration. I have not experienced this issue but to go about why I haven't is tangential to your question.

While I am not a certified BMW mechanic I did stay at a Motel 6 last night and I suspect one of three causes for this problem.

1- The previous owner flogged this bike a lot with fast hard launches and smoked the clutch. This is not likely as most of us 1200RT waterhead owners are of an age where the testosterone has dropped enough to have lost interest in beating a touring bike like that.

2- the centrifugal assist mechanism is not functioning correctly. This is a maybe, but to me seems unlikely as well because of the low mileage of the bike and I think the malfunction would have come from an error in reassembling the clutch after a replacement

3- the previous owner used the wrong oil specification on oil changes. This seems likely to me as some of the automotive oils are a big no-no for a bike with a single oil bath that includes a wet clutch. I think some of the oil marked as fuel conserving have a load of friction reducing additives that would make the clutch slip and over time and glaze the fiber disk plates in the clutch. To me 30K miles seems about right to do the deed, at first not even noticeable, but the glazing getting worse as miles rack up.

If you still want the bike, insist that the clutch be inspected and serviced as needed as part of the deal.

On another note, I not sure I would have a lot of faith in the shop that told you "they all slip like that". Or, if this shop is otherwise very reputable look around the shop for a 16 year "go-for" work study tech with a drag bike sitting in the corner of the shop

Oh and just to be sure. When you say clutch slipping, I assume you mean that the RPM builds but the speed does not seem to match the RMP gain. Or, the RMP sort of wind up ahead of build in speed. If this is not what you experience, then ignore my last post and say more about what you are experienced on your ride.

Great description of how the slipper clutch works, BUT that has nothing to do with the blipping of the throttle on downshifts! Why? Rev-matching, or blipping the throttle on downshifts gives a smooth transition in going to lower gears, at a level well below when the slipper part of the clutch swings into action! So, if you want a smooth and noiseless downshifts, you still need to do the rev-matching!

I disagree, but don't want to go to far afield from the original discussion. In any case, I think we both agree that throttle blipping is a good habit to develop and maintain. That said, I've never owned a bike that did auto-blipping for downshifts, which I'm heard only works if you close the throttle completely before you initiate the shift. That would be a big change to me for my riding style.

 

On another note, I not sure I would have a lot of faith in the shop that told you "they all slip like that". Or, if this shop is otherwise very reputable look around the shop for a 16 year "go-for" work study tech with a drag bike sitting in the corner of the shop

Thanks everyone, good input, I'm def not going to consider that specific bike at this point and to your comment not sure I trust them. That will unfold when and if I can get in to test the 2017 demo they have. It's good that another local shop just became a BMW dealer but they have 0 RT's, only GS's.

To Anaometer's comment I was able to find the TC (ACS?) control through the wheel function and turned it off to see if that might be the issue. It didn't change the results.

Thanks again everyone for your input. Time to look for a different option.

The slipper clutch is to prevent wheel hop or chatter during agressive downshifting.

It allows one to downshift say, an extra gear without the danger of locking up or skipping the rear wheel to allow harder harder acceration out of a corner.

 

So, with the slipper clutch, is it necessary to blip the throttle when aggressively downshifting in order to match engine speed with new gear? I was not aware that my '16 RT had a slipper clutch. I have shift assist and I understand that this will happen automatically when downshifting but am curious is it's necessary if you downshift in the conventional manner.

 

A slipper clutch uses a set of ramps within the clutch mechanism that allows it to slip when rear wheel decelerates beyond an allowed limit. The ramps are one-way; think of a set of gear teeth that are slanted on one side and square on the other. If a clutch slips under acceleration, it isn't due to the slipper design. Professional set-ups allow you to vary the amount of force that will allow the clutch to slip under deceleration, but most stock set-ups require a pretty heavy hand to activate. Think going to a low gear at high speed and dumping the clutch.

 

I wonder if what the test rider felt was the traction control? If the engine revved and the bike didn't accelerate, that would be a clutch slip. If the engine stuttered or the acceleration slowed witihout the engine revs spiking, it was probably the TC.

 

Blipping the throttle was necessary before slipper clutches became widespread on stock bikes. If you have a slipper, you don't need to blip on downshift. I do, but that's just to maintain practice for riding non-slip equipped bikes.

Great description of how the slipper clutch works, BUT that has nothing to do with the blipping of the throttle on downshifts! Why? Rev-matching, or blipping the throttle on downshifts gives a smooth transition in going to lower gears, at a level well below when the slipper part of the clutch swings into action! So, if you want a smooth and noiseless downshifts, you still need to do the rev-matching!

That's right

I owned a couple of LC R1200s and I was not a fan of the transmissions.. but this guy needs a rev matching tutorial if anyone ever did.

Hurts to listen to...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6dRKR_h90I

Ouch. The guy on the video rarely gets the poor bike above 3000 rpm, then he pulls the clutch all the way while dropping the throttle to idle, and then upshifts at idle -- yep it's going to CLUNK.

Let us know how you make out with the "17.

I know the bike and the dealer you are referring to. I looked at it also.

I walked away from it and bought a new left over '16 R-RT from California.

I'm living in the Portland area presently, good luck with a newer bike!

Let us know how you make out with the "17.

 

I know the bike and the dealer you are referring to. I looked at it also.

I walked away from it and bought a new left over '16 R-RT from California.

I'm living in the Portland area presently, good luck with a newer bike!

That's where I'm looking as well. Came away, NOT impressed with their service and now their sales.