14.5 V Regulator/Rectifier Problem?

I installed a 14.5V reg/rec to improve charging of PC680 battery.

Here is a link to a GS911 file (data & chart) of voltage over a ride of about 35 minutes. Chart (go to page 2) is kinda rough but 14.5V is almost never reached. Looks more like 14.3 or so. *link*

Any comments?

I installed a 14.5V reg/rec to improve charging of PC680 battery.

Here is a link to a GS911 file (data & chart) of voltage over a ride of about 35 minutes. Chart (go to page 2) is kinda rough but 14.5V is almost never reached. Looks more like 14.3 or so. *link*

Any comments?

Afternoon TheOtherLee

The GS-911 is measuring system voltage & that is almost always lower than battery charging voltage through the big DIRECT red charging wire. System voltage goes though more circuits, smaller wires, & more connections with some system loading.

If you want EXACT battery charging voltage then you need to monitor the voltage right at the battery posts.

The voltage regulator "voltage" spec is the regulator's output voltage at 25C case temperature. Its temperature coefficient is negative which means the output voltage drops as the alternator gets hotter. Our alternators run somewhere between ambient and oil temp given its mounting location. So it will usually be below the voltage stamped on it except during very cold weather.

DR & Roger - Thanks for responding.

I checked voltage today at the fused 2 ft pigtail ( a compromise) and got 12.86 V resting overnight battery, 6.4 mA parasitic draw and 14.42 V engine running charging voltage. No radio or ABS controller, SignalMinder connected. Hope that's a good enough environment for the PC680.

You should be good. The charging voltage is fine.

With the 6.4 mA draw your battery, if uncharged by riding depletes 7% per week.

I've also ordered the same voltage regulator as I have the same battery. I thought it would be easy task to replace the current regulator but having the gas tank out, I still couldn't locate where it's mounted. Looking through my Hayne's manual offered no clue.

Can you point me to where it is and if there are any heads up I should watch out for? Thank you.

Hi, Tony -

The voltage reg is on the back of the alternator, under the black plastic cover. You may have seen the alternator pulley when you checked the alternator belt?

But to get to the back of the alternator (at least on my r1150rt) you have to remove the brake controller and the motronic unit. Even then it's not easy to remove the 3 screws, rotate the cover and get at the regulator. Tough job but doable.

The picture below is from the maxbmw microfiche for your bike.

Ahh, so that's where is was buried! Thank you for that, Lee.

I think I need to reserve that task for the next time I have the tank out and doing something big. I don't relish taking out the control modules to access the regulator:(

I installed a 14.5V reg/rec to improve charging of PC680 battery.

Here is a link to a GS911 file (data & chart) of voltage over a ride of about 35 minutes. Chart (go to page 2) is kinda rough but 14.5V is almost never reached. Looks more like 14.3 or so. *link*

Any comments?

Lee,

Did you get the OEM type voltage reg, or the 14.7v from EME??

EME is selling a 14.7?

I've also ordered the same voltage regulator as I have the same battery. I thought it would be easy task to replace the current regulator but having the gas tank out, I still couldn't locate where it's mounted. Looking through my Hayne's manual offered no clue.

Can you point me to where it is and if there are any heads up I should watch out for? Thank you.

Tony,

On my 99 R1100S (some similarities to your bike in this area), I was able to replace the OEM volt reg with the EME 14.7v for my PC680 WITHOUT removing the alternator, belt, or covers. (see post #981095)

My alt is mounted upside down from Lee's pic. I was able to remove the three little Phillips head screws on the back side if the black cover. That loosened the cover enough (still could NOT remove it completely) to rotate it until the cut-out in the cover for the two cable connectors (see Lee's pic again) is on the TOP. Thru that cut-out you can remove the two screws holding the volt reg (and brushes and elec connections) then remove the OEM volt reg and stick the new one in.

After I got the three screws out of the cover, it first looked like it would NOT rotate, but I kept wiggling it until it worked.

Hope this helps.

Still had to bleed the ABS when I got it back in. PITA.

Skoal

Lowndes, I got the 14.5V reg from EME. And BTW, thank you for your post on installation, it was very helpful.

I've also ordered the same voltage regulator as I have the same battery. I thought it would be easy task to replace the current regulator but having the gas tank out, I still couldn't locate where it's mounted. Looking through my Hayne's manual offered no clue.

Can you point me to where it is and if there are any heads up I should watch out for? Thank you.

 

Tony,

 

On my 99 R1100S (some similarities to your bike in this area), I was able to replace the OEM volt reg with the EME 14.7v for my PC680 WITHOUT removing the alternator, belt, or covers. (see post #981095)

 

My alt is mounted upside down from Lee's pic. I was able to remove the three little Phillips head screws on the back side if the black cover. That loosened the cover enough (still could NOT remove it completely) to rotate it until the cut-out in the cover for the two cable connectors (see Lee's pic again) is on the TOP. Thru that cut-out you can remove the two screws holding the volt reg (and brushes and elec connections) then remove the OEM volt reg and stick the new one in.

 

After I got the three screws out of the cover, it first looked like it would NOT rotate, but I kept wiggling it until it worked.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Still had to bleed the ABS when I got it back in. PITA.

 

Skoal

Really neat idea. I just added a 2001 R1150GS to my fleet (of 2) bikes. It has a PC680 and I'd like to boost it's voltage too.

Tony,

 

On my 99 R1100S (some similarities to your bike in this area), I was able to replace the OEM volt reg with the EME 14.7v for my PC680 WITHOUT removing the alternator, belt, or covers. (see post #981095)

 

My alt is mounted upside down from Lee's pic. I was able to remove the three little Phillips head screws on the back side if the black cover. That loosened the cover enough (still could NOT remove it completely) to rotate it until the cut-out in the cover for the two cable connectors (see Lee's pic again) is on the TOP. Thru that cut-out you can remove the two screws holding the volt reg (and brushes and elec connections) then remove the OEM volt reg and stick the new one in.

 

After I got the three screws out of the cover, it first looked like it would NOT rotate, but I kept wiggling it until it worked.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Still had to bleed the ABS when I got it back in. PITA.

 

Skoal

I appreciate another way to tackle this task. I plan to combine this with few other things as long as I have the bike apart: new brake lines, bleeding, alternator belt and HES inspection.

EME is selling a 14.7?

Appears to 14.5v

http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/BOSCH-Voltage-Regulator-BMW-R-K-12-31-1-739-365-p/boalt-reg365.htm

Tony,

" I plan to combine this with few other things as long as I have the bike apart: new brake lines, bleeding, alternator belt and HES inspection."

Yes, I was doing the same, Spiegler lines EVERYWHERE, EV-14 injectors and something else.

On the HES: "inspection" will NOT tell you anything. The sheath over the wires looks perfect, the insulation on the wires inside the sheath decomposes (the plasticizers in the insulation leach out from the heat) and the wires short leaving you "dead in the water" all of a sudden, even on a dry day. It's not "if" but "when" on these, like brake lines. Would you prefer to do the HES at home, OR, on the side of the road, in another state, or in a motel parking lot and waiting on parts??

Go ahead and PM GSAddict for a rewire job. He does EXCELLENT work and fast.

Salud

There is a post somewhere about adding a resistor to your voltage regulator to bump up the charging voltage. EZ and cheap, just a PITA to get to.

Its a diode added to the stock regulator, here's how to do it: https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?70495-Starter-or-Battery-2004-R1150RT&p=907139&viewfull=1#post907139

I got to the "diode" project over the weekend. The alternator is now charging at 14.75 volts. Many thanks to GSAddict for his valuable help, often on a moment's notice at the crack of dawn.

While the project seems a success, it is a bear of a job. At this point I can't say for certain that it won't be bad for the bulbs, or other electronics. Nor do I know for sure that the higher voltage won't be bad for the ABS or Motronic. I don't know that I've selected the best diode, and I don't know how long the diode will last. If the diode fails, the alternator will stop charging. (But often overloaded diodes short out in which case the alternator will operate but at its original voltage.)

The first time I reassembled, the diode interfered with the alternator body causing two internal pins on the voltage regulator to touch. This happened because I attempted to do the work without pulling the alternator. You really have to remove the alternator to do a good job, which I did the second time. (It would be better to find a voltage regulator that was adjustable or a higher voltage, then swap regulators. I haven't found one yet.) Removal of the ABS system takes a great deal of care.

RB

If I haven't scared you off from trying, and you're willing to take all the risk yourself, and you want to install a diode, here is a brief outline of what I did:

Step 1

Remove the alternator by removing:

-Seats, left and right fairing and fuel tank

-Alternator Belt Cover

-Battery

-ABS (requires bleeding all circuits afterward)

-Motronic

Step 2

Remove the Voltage Regulator from the Alternator by:

-Removing the black cover on the alternator

And then:

-Drill out the spot weld on the ground lug

-CAREFULLY remove Ground Lug. (Note in the photo below that I have started removing the ground and it is bent upward.)

-Save ground lug to shim the underside of the regulator when you reinstall it.

Step 3

Boost the Voltage by Adding:

-One NTE 5812 Diode in series with the internal ground

-Reinstall Vreg

-Reinstall Alternator

-Reinstall fuel tank and battery

-Test alternator output

Step 4

-Pull fuel tank and battery again

-Reinstall and Bleed ABS system

-Reinstall everything else

There are a lot of steps and skills needed for this project. It would be easy to do it wrong and cause serious damage. This outline and the photos should be sufficient if you have the right skill set to take this on. Otherwise, if you have an Odyssey PC680 battery and want to keep it 100% charged, consider charging your battery with an approved Odyssey charger every few weeks. Or at your next battery change consider a regular lead acid or Gel battery, both of which are fully charged with the standard alternator.

Or live with the knowledge that your PC680 battery will never be fully charged and will only last 6 or 7 years....

Oh, and it will take a second or two longer to start your bike.

I just bought my cousin's R1150GS. Good bike, well maintained, PC 680, undercharged by 10-15%, in other words it was charged to about 14 AH not 16. That might not sound like a lot but over a couple years it will sulfate the top part of the battery. They like to by FULLY charged.

I have run three cycles of discharge recharge and the battery (less than 2years old) is coming back, the discharge time is lengthening.. I have a new charger that will properly charge the battery for the garage and I will add the NTE 5812 diode to the stock regulator.

I just bought my cousin's R1150GS. Good bike, well maintained, PC 680, undercharged by 10-15%, in other words it was charged to about 14 AH not 16. That might not sound like a lot but over a couple years it will sulfate the top part of the battery. They like to by FULLY charged.

 

I have run three cycles of discharge recharge and the battery (less than 2years old) is coming back, the discharge time is lengthening.. I have a new charger that will properly charge the battery for the garage and I will add the NTE 5812 diode to the stock regulator.

Morning Roger

I did the diode thing to a friends 1150RT last winter. I changed the process just a bit as I also added a set of pig tails to each leg of the diode then ran those pig tails out to under the seat & covered with high temp small diameter split convoluted wire covering. The pig tail terminates with a sealed weatherpack connector.

The sealed weatherpack connector has a blank (no terminals but seals) mating connector installed as weather protection.

Then I made up a second connector with a shunt wire across the terminals.

The idea of the extra pig tails & shunt connector is in case the diode would ever fail (he travels a LOT on his 1150). In case of a diode failure on a trip all he has to do in plug in the shunt & it should start charging again to factory levels.

I think if I do another I will not put the diode inside the alternator but instead put it in the remote connector so it is easier to remove the diode if a standard battery is reinstalled in BFE to continue a trip. (14.7v will boil the water out of a conventional battery pretty quickly)

Morning DR,

When many diodes (but no all) fail, they fail as a short circuit. So externalizing it maybe isn't necessary. Given how hard it is to do the mod though, being able to get at it from the outside would be great.

The diode I use lifts the voltage 0.6V. I'm thinking if I add a small resistor to the diode I can get the other 0.1 volts, another reason for the outside mount. And maybe add a switch so the boost can but switched in or out.

Roger

Edit: Changed inside to outside in the next to last sentence.

I just stumbled on this discussion, and bookmarked it for future (hopefully never needed) reference.

My 1999RT has now turned 127,000 miles. I've turned ~250,000 miles over the past 55 years — don't know how many remaining before I need a rebuild.

Roger 04 RT,

Going back to your post #994416, THANK YOU for posting that.

Question - is there enough space inside the alt AND would it work (electrically) to mount two of these diodes in parallel so that if one fails the other might still work??

I like Dirtrider's remote mount, too. Having to remove the ABS is just too much.

I found the diode on Amazone, $2.26 ea + $4.50 shipping.

Lowndes, On my alternator, there was only room for one diode. If your workmanship is good, there is no reason that the large diode used for this mod will be more likely to fail than the voltage regulator or alternator. Mine's been in for years now as have several others I'm aware of. My concern with external mounting is that it is a potential source of an electrical short, but again, if the workmanship is good, that should work too.

BTW, I just bought a second R1150, and it has a PC680 battery, just a couple years old. The bike has been well maintained and ridden a lot and topped up with a Schumacher trickle charger (which holds a bit over 13V in trickle mode, which is insufficient). Using another charger, I fully charged the battery at 14.8 volts, trickle charged it overnight, and then discharged it to 10V. I got about 10% fewer amp-hours than the spec. (which is 13.8 AH at a 6A discharge rate).

After discharging to 10V and recharging the battery four times, the battery now is at full capacity. I've ordered a diode but will wait to install it until I have a reason to go through the pain of getting at the alternator. In the meantime, I'll use my 30V 10A power supply (programmed to 14.8V for charging, and 13.8V for holding) to charge the battery fully after riding.

I've also measured the key-off load, which is 3.6 mA. That's a good, low figure. Once charged, the PC680 will only lose about 4% charge per week, with no charger attached.

Lowndes, On my alternator, there was only room for one diode. If your workmanship is good, there is no reason that the large diode used for this mod will be more likely to fail than the voltage regulator or alternator. Mine's been in for years now as have several others I'm aware of. My concern with external mounting is that it is a potential source of an electrical short, but again, if the workmanship is good, that should work too.

 

BTW, I just bought a second R1150, and it has a PC680 battery, just a couple years old. The bike has been well maintained and ridden a lot and topped up with a Schumacher trickle charger (which holds a bit over 13V in trickle mode, which is insufficient). Using another charger, I fully charged the battery at 14.8 volts, trickle charged it overnight, and then discharged it to 10V. I got about 10% fewer amp-hours than the spec. (which is 13.8 AH at a 6A discharge rate).

 

After discharging to 10V and recharging the battery four times, the battery now is at full capacity. I've ordered a diode but will wait to install it until I have a reason to go through the pain of getting at the alternator. In the meantime, I'll use my 30V 10A power supply (programmed to 14.8V for charging, and 13.8V for holding) to charge the battery fully after riding.

 

I've also measured the key-off load, which is 3.6 mA. That's a good, low figure. Once charged, the PC680 will only lose about 4% charge per week, with no charger attached.

THANK YOU, sir.

I have two diodes on the way and the OEM votlage reg that I plan to try your mod on. May install it in the K1200RS. Removing the ABS on the R11S is too much.

The "High Frequency Pulse Desulfation Cycle" on my BatteryMINDer is for real. I put it on a flat dead PC-680 sitting in the shop and a few days later it was showing 100%. Made a believer out of my and my brother.

That PC-680 is now in a friend's R80 and doing well.

Lowndes,

Which BatteryMinder are you using to maintain your PC-680? Do you leave it connected all the time when not riding? Thanks

04100S,

I bought a "BatteryMINDer Charger-Desulfator - 12 Volt, AGM Batteries, Model# 2012-AGM" on amazone for $75 a year ago. Looks like they've gone up ($89.99 +F). Not saying this is the perfect one, for just a 1.5a maintenance charger/desulfator there may be a less expensive option.

There are several BatteryMINDers they recommend for MC's: BatteryMINDers

I don't leave mine connected. It's at my brother's shop and we don't leave anything connected during the week. We sometimes connect it overnight on the weekends. It does have an automatic "FLOAT" cycle with Desulfation.

Also, I read on their website that you can connect multiple batteries in series if you have multiple AGM's.

Lowndes,

Thanks for the information. I have been using a Battery Tender Jr for the PC-680, but lost the original PC-680 and don't want to lose another. The 2012-AGM appears to be a good choice for the PC-680.