BMWSportTouring BMWST DB
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#995123 - 08/22/17 09:59 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Dann
Originally Posted By: dirtrider
Evening Daniel

It does sound like the clutch but don't get ahead of yourself until you positively prove it is the clutch.

It doesn't happen often but the drive shaft could have a slipping rubber isolator (front & rear halves of drive shaft slipping at the rubber isolator joint)

The clutch replacement on the BMW 1200 is a fairly big job & clutch parts are expensive (trans has to be removed & bike basically has to be split apart)



How can I test to see if it's the case?
Remove the front rubber boot and check if the front part of the shaft is spinning when in gear?
Or do I have to pull the drive shaft out and look at it?
Will I get an error code with the GS-911?


Morning Daniel

Good question, your GS-9111 won't show it so you will need to manually verify the problem.

If you can get the thing to slip while sitting still then you might be able to remove the top transmission filler plug then look into the fill hole to see if the trans gears are spinning when it is slipping.

If you get the slip but the trans gears are moving then it is probably the drive shaft as the issue.

If it is slipping but no trans gears moving then it is probably the clutch slipping.

If it is the clutch that is slipping then the question of why it did that comes up. If the clutch wasn't abused then possibly a rear engine oil leak (like rear main, or rear balance shaft seal, or front trans seal)
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#995189 - 08/22/17 10:10 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: dirtrider]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Evening DR


Today I was able to take some of the bike apart in order to access the drive shaft.(Getting the rear master cylinder off the right foot plate is a pain. Why isn't it screwed to the frame like on the GS...)

If I grab the shaft from the rear and slip my finger under the front rubber boot I can feel the the front u-joint turning when I spin the rear one by hand.

Nothing seems to leak. There is nothing on the garage floor.

There was some oil were the drain plug for the engine oil is, but I just did an oil change and some of it might have splashed on it when I removed the drain pug.

I cleaned it and I'll keep an eye on it.

BTW my drive shaft (OEM) is new. I installed it about a month ago. (After my rear U-joint seized and snapped on the highway at 120kph...)

I looked at my transmission oil and it's still full to the treads and clear with the usual SAF-XO bad smell. (It was changed 8000km ago)

I didn't know you could see the gear spin from fill hole.

I think my next step is to continue removing the swing arm and pull the drive shaft completely out and then run the engine and see if the transmission shaft spins with nothing attached to it.


Edited by Dann (08/22/17 10:14 PM)
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995199 - 08/22/17 11:42 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Evening Daniel



If I grab the shaft from the rear and slip my finger under the front rubber boot I can feel the front u-joint turning when I spin the rear one by hand.--This might not tell the whole story. The drive shaft rubber isolator could slip under vehicle load but still have enough friction to allow one end to spin the other under no load.

Nothing seems to leak. There is nothing on the garage floor.--That probably means not enough oil leak to cause clutch slippage.

There was some oil were the drain plug for the engine oil is, but I just did an oil change and some of it might have splashed on it when I removed the drain plug.
I cleaned it and I'll keep an eye on it.
--

BTW my drive shaft (OEM) is new. I installed it about a month ago. (After my rear U-joint seized and snapped on the highway at 120kph...)--That would probably point to the drive shaft not being the issue but even new parts can fail.

I looked at my transmission oil and it's still full to the treads and clear with the usual SAF-XO bad smell. (It was changed 8000km ago)--This wouldn't tell you much on a slipping clutch or slipping drive shaft.

I didn't know you could see the gear spin from fill hole.--You might have to drain it down a little but there are trans gears just inside the fill hole.

I think my next step is to continue removing the swing arm and pull the drive shaft completely out and then run the engine and see if the transmission shaft spins with nothing attached to it.--Unless the clutch is so completely fried that there is nothing left I would imagine even a badly slipping clutch would have enough drive friction to turn an unloaded output shaft.
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#995206 - 08/23/17 01:32 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: dirtrider]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Quote:
Unless the clutch is so completely fried that there is nothing left I would imagine even a badly slipping clutch would have enough drive friction to turn an unloaded output shaft.


Evening DR

Thanks again for your input

I guess that the best way to know would be to remove the drive shaft and inspect it visually. If it looks good, then reassemble everything without the front rubber boot to see if the front part of the drive shaft spins when I run the engine in 1rst gear.

If the front spins and not the rear,it will mean the drive shaft is defective and if nothing spins that would mean it's the clutch.

While it's running on the center stand I can also look into the transmission fill hole to see if I can see gears spinning.

What do you think?


Edited by Dann (08/23/17 01:35 AM)
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995220 - 08/23/17 12:40 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Dann
Quote:
Unless the clutch is so completely fried that there is nothing left I would imagine even a badly slipping clutch would have enough drive friction to turn an unloaded output shaft.


Evening DR

Thanks again for your input

I guess that the best way to know would be to remove the drive shaft and inspect it visually. If it looks good, then reassemble everything without the front rubber boot to see if the front part of the drive shaft spins when I run the engine in 1rst gear.

If the front spins and not the rear,it will mean the drive shaft is defective and if nothing spins that would mean it's the clutch.

While it's running on the center stand I can also look into the transmission fill hole to see if I can see gears spinning.

What do you think?


Morning Daniel

Maybe just put the trans in 6th gear with engine "not running" then try to turn the rear wheel & see what moves where.

If front U joint moves (or trans gears move looking through trans fill plug hole) then probably a slipping clutch.

If the rear wheel moves but the front U joint doesn't, or the trans gears don't, then probably a slipping drive shaft isolator.
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#995273 - 08/23/17 09:27 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: dirtrider]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Evening DR

Here are the latest

Quote:

Maybe just put the trans in 6th gear with engine "not running" then try to turn the rear wheel & see what moves where.


The trans will not shift beyond first gear

Quote:
If front U joint moves (or trans gears move looking through trans fill plug hole) then probably a slipping clutch.


I don't see the gears through the oil but If I move the shaft by hand I can see the oil move and if I start the engine the oil is pushed out of the fill hole

Quote:
If the rear wheel moves but the front U joint doesn't, or the trans gears don't, then probably a slipping drive shaft isolator.


When I run the engine in first gear on the center stand, the rear wheel spins but I can stop it with my hand and the engine doesn't stall. Both ends of the shaft stop turning if I hold the rear wheel.

I took the shaft out and it still looks new.

It has to be the clutch.

Which parts will I need?
Only the friction disk or the whole thing?

I probably killed it when my rear U-joint broke and I limped my way off the Highway.
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995277 - 08/23/17 10:00 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Evening Daniel

Quote:

Maybe just put the trans in 6th gear with engine "not running" then try to turn the rear wheel & see what moves where.


The trans will not shift beyond first gear--This is disturbing, why won't it shift up? Did you try moving the rear wheel back & forth while you tried shifting.

Quote:
If front U joint moves (or trans gears move looking through trans fill plug hole) then probably a slipping clutch.


I don't see the gears through the oil but If I move the shaft by hand I can see the oil move and if I start the engine the oil is pushed out of the fill hole--You might have to drain it down a bit to see the gears but oil movement will be just as good.

Quote:
If the rear wheel moves but the front U joint doesn't, or the trans gears don't, then probably a slipping drive shaft isolator.


When I run the engine in first gear on the center stand, the rear wheel spins but I can stop it with my hand and the engine doesn't stall. Both ends of the shaft stop turning if I hold the rear wheel.--This does point to the clutch as being the problem.

I took the shaft out and it still looks new.--Good

It has to be the clutch.--It is pointing that way.

Which parts will I need? --No way to know until you get it apart.

Only the friction disk or the whole thing?--Could be either or both plus more.

I probably killed it when my rear U-joint broke and I limped my way off the Highway. --Very possible if you slipped the clutch a lot to move the bike.
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#995304 - 08/24/17 10:15 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
RobinW Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/13
Posts: 255
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Being stuck in first is a worry. But it looks like your on the way to pulling the gearbox.

I've done it a few times but never on a R1200. Just take your time and it will just come apart.

The reprom for the R1200 says the arse end comes away from the bike. The others I've done the backend lifts up. Mostly R1100's or KBikes.

I think you'll need to get in there for a look see.



_________________________
07 R1200RT-P
01 530i M-Sport

Top
#995351 - 08/24/17 11:27 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: RobinW]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
I've started taking the bike apart and everything look good so far.

I'm at the point where I have to disconnect both throttle-valve stubs



The RepROM shows a "Special" type of plier to do the job.



I do not have this tool

There must be something else available that can do the job?

UPDATE:
I've answered my own question...

This is called an oetiker clip plier.

They sell them on eBay but I'll try to see if I can find one locally which will be faster.


Edited by Dann (08/25/17 12:06 AM)
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995360 - 08/25/17 01:41 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada


Also,

These tools are mentioned in the RepROM.
Are they essential in order to do the job?

Is there any substitute

Centering pin


Engine locking device
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >