BMWSportTouring BMWST DB
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#994741 - 08/16/17 03:33 PM Bad smell under acceleration
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Yesterday I started noticing a burning smell when doing hard acceleration like when passing another vehicle.
There is also a dip in the engine rev during acceleration which I never noticed before.
I also seem to feel more vibrations than before from the bike under acceleration
I recently changed my drive shaft after my rear u-joint snapped.

The smell is like the one that happens if you do a bad gear shift but it doesn't happen when I shift gears.
Only during hard acceleration. No smell at cruising speed.No smell when shifting gear.

Anyone has an idea on the cause?
I hope it's not my clutch that's going south...
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#994743 - 08/16/17 03:43 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Dann
Yesterday I started noticing a burning smell when doing hard acceleration like when passing another vehicle.
There is also a dip in the engine rev during acceleration which I never noticed before.
I also seem to feel more vibrations than before from the bike under acceleration
I recently changed my drive shaft after my rear u-joint snapped.

The smell is like the one that happens if you do a bad gear shift but it doesn't happen when I shift gears.
Only during hard acceleration. No smell at cruising speed.No smell when shifting gear.

Anyone has an idea on the cause?
I hope it's not my clutch that's going south...


Afternoon Daniel

Difficult to tell much without more info or access to the bike.

Initially is sounds like a slipping clutch but the DIP in engine RPM's doesn't support a slipping clutch (slipping clutch usually gives an engine RPM flair not a drop)

Any chance that the smell was coming from the vehicle that you passed?

Or, any chance that you inadvertently had your foot on the brake pedal? (that could account for the RPM dip)
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#994769 - 08/17/17 12:18 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: dirtrider]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Quote:
Afternoon Daniel

Difficult to tell much without more info or access to the bike.

Initially is sounds like a slipping clutch but the DIP in engine RPM's doesn't support a slipping clutch (slipping clutch usually gives an engine RPM flair not a drop)

Any chance that the smell was coming from the vehicle that you passed?

Or, any chance that you inadvertently had your foot on the brake pedal? (that could account for the RPM dip)


Evening DR

Thanks for your input

The smell is definitely coming from my bike. My riding partner who was following me confirmed it, although there is no residual smell when the bike is idling and no smell if I twist the throttle wile the bike is on neutral.
The tip of the exhaust can is clean

I'm positive that I'm not touching the brake but you may be right also.

I took the rear wheel off today because I need to have a new tire installed. (I also did an oil change)

While the wheel was off I decided to check my FD to see it it could be coming from there.

Everything looked fine but I changed the fluid anyway but when I was putting it back together, I was having a hard time putting the brake caliper back in place.

This is when I realized that one of the pads was hanging out of place.

I took everything apart and reinstalled the rear brake pads.

I will see on my next ride if this was the cause of my problem

_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#994787 - 08/17/17 11:36 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Dann


Everything looked fine but I changed the fluid anyway but when I was putting it back together, I was having a hard time putting the brake caliper back in place.

This is when I realized that one of the pads was hanging out of place.

I took everything apart and reinstalled the rear brake pads.

I will see on my next ride if this was the cause of my problem


Morning Daniel

Looking at the picture, the circular wear on the hanging brake pad looks normal & correct so it appears to me that the pad was operating in the correct location (probably fell out of place when you removed the caliper)



Edited by dirtrider (08/17/17 11:37 AM)
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#994825 - 08/17/17 09:07 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Here's the latest:

I ran an Autoscan with my GS-911 and got the following fault codes:

10104 Clutch Switch faulty
The fault is not present now.

10048 Oil Level Switch malfunction
The fault is currently present.

23955 Front Wheel Speed Sensor : Signal implausible
The fault is not present now.

After being done with the new tire install, I cleared the fault codes, went for a short ride were I tried a couple of hard accelerations.

No smell, the bike was behaving normally.
I ran another Autoscan when I got home and got no fault codes.

I think that my oil level must have been low and the warning sign <!> did not come up because of some sort of glitch in the oil sensor.

The clutch switch error happened before and seems to be intermittent. It did not affect starting the bike in 1rst gear or disable the cruise control.
I cleaned it with contact cleaner to be on the safe side.

I don't understand why I got the speed sensor error though.

I'll see if the problem comes back on the next long ride


Edited by Dann (08/17/17 09:13 PM)
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#994827 - 08/17/17 09:22 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Dann


I don't understand why I got the speed sensor error though.

I'll see if the problem comes back on the next long ride


Evening Daniel

On the speed sensor-- Look CLOSELY for signs that the front speed sensor wire was/or is rubbing on the front brake rotor (somewhat common).

Or wire stretched too tight (another possibility)

Also, look closely at the front wheel ABS tone ring for damaged slots or warping (very easy to damage the tone ring wrestling with the tire at tire change)
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#994848 - 08/18/17 12:23 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: dirtrider]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Evening DR
Thanks for your suggestions

I checked the speed sensor and the sensor wire is not rubbing or stretched.Everything is clipped where it should be.
The ring looks perfect. (My last front tire change was something like 10,000 km ago)

The sensor itself looked a bit dirty. I cleaned it by spraying some contact cleaner on it to be safe.

Last ride we hit some heavy rain and a little stretch of unpaved road + Constructions.

Maybe the sensor got more dirt than it could handle...
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995078 - 08/21/17 09:50 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Bad news

I went for a ride today and felt that the bike needed to rev more than usual to achieve the same speed as before in any gear.The bike felt like it had no torque.

It kept getting worse until I got on the highway and started loosing speed while in 6th gear, I managed to take the next exit. after I stopped, I realized that I could not get any gear to engage. No matter what gear I was on, it was like being in neutral.

I had the bike towed home.

I assume my clutch is toast. cry

I know that changing the clutch is a big procedure.
Is this something that is better left to a shop or can it be done by an amateur? (I've been doing all my maintenance so far, even changed the rear strut and the drive shaft.)

Are there any instructions (video is always good) anywhere
on how to do this?

I had a quick look at the RepROM an the procedure looks quite lengthy.
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995080 - 08/21/17 10:13 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Evening Daniel

It does sound like the clutch but don't get ahead of yourself until you positively prove it is the clutch.

It doesn't happen often but the drive shaft could have a slipping rubber isolator (front & rear halves of drive shaft slipping at the rubber isolator joint)

The clutch replacement on the BMW 1200 is a fairly big job & clutch parts are expensive (trans has to be removed & bike basically has to be split apart)
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#995103 - 08/22/17 01:36 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: dirtrider]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Originally Posted By: dirtrider
Evening Daniel

It does sound like the clutch but don't get ahead of yourself until you positively prove it is the clutch.

It doesn't happen often but the drive shaft could have a slipping rubber isolator (front & rear halves of drive shaft slipping at the rubber isolator joint)

The clutch replacement on the BMW 1200 is a fairly big job & clutch parts are expensive (trans has to be removed & bike basically has to be split apart)



How can I test to see if it's the case?
Remove the front rubber boot and check if the front part of the shaft is spinning when in gear?
Or do I have to pull the drive shaft out and look at it?
Will I get an error code with the GS-911?


Edited by Dann (08/22/17 02:35 AM)
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995123 - 08/22/17 09:59 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Dann
Originally Posted By: dirtrider
Evening Daniel

It does sound like the clutch but don't get ahead of yourself until you positively prove it is the clutch.

It doesn't happen often but the drive shaft could have a slipping rubber isolator (front & rear halves of drive shaft slipping at the rubber isolator joint)

The clutch replacement on the BMW 1200 is a fairly big job & clutch parts are expensive (trans has to be removed & bike basically has to be split apart)



How can I test to see if it's the case?
Remove the front rubber boot and check if the front part of the shaft is spinning when in gear?
Or do I have to pull the drive shaft out and look at it?
Will I get an error code with the GS-911?


Morning Daniel

Good question, your GS-9111 won't show it so you will need to manually verify the problem.

If you can get the thing to slip while sitting still then you might be able to remove the top transmission filler plug then look into the fill hole to see if the trans gears are spinning when it is slipping.

If you get the slip but the trans gears are moving then it is probably the drive shaft as the issue.

If it is slipping but no trans gears moving then it is probably the clutch slipping.

If it is the clutch that is slipping then the question of why it did that comes up. If the clutch wasn't abused then possibly a rear engine oil leak (like rear main, or rear balance shaft seal, or front trans seal)
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#995189 - 08/22/17 10:10 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: dirtrider]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Evening DR


Today I was able to take some of the bike apart in order to access the drive shaft.(Getting the rear master cylinder off the right foot plate is a pain. Why isn't it screwed to the frame like on the GS...)

If I grab the shaft from the rear and slip my finger under the front rubber boot I can feel the the front u-joint turning when I spin the rear one by hand.

Nothing seems to leak. There is nothing on the garage floor.

There was some oil were the drain plug for the engine oil is, but I just did an oil change and some of it might have splashed on it when I removed the drain pug.

I cleaned it and I'll keep an eye on it.

BTW my drive shaft (OEM) is new. I installed it about a month ago. (After my rear U-joint seized and snapped on the highway at 120kph...)

I looked at my transmission oil and it's still full to the treads and clear with the usual SAF-XO bad smell. (It was changed 8000km ago)

I didn't know you could see the gear spin from fill hole.

I think my next step is to continue removing the swing arm and pull the drive shaft completely out and then run the engine and see if the transmission shaft spins with nothing attached to it.


Edited by Dann (08/22/17 10:14 PM)
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995199 - 08/22/17 11:42 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Evening Daniel



If I grab the shaft from the rear and slip my finger under the front rubber boot I can feel the front u-joint turning when I spin the rear one by hand.--This might not tell the whole story. The drive shaft rubber isolator could slip under vehicle load but still have enough friction to allow one end to spin the other under no load.

Nothing seems to leak. There is nothing on the garage floor.--That probably means not enough oil leak to cause clutch slippage.

There was some oil were the drain plug for the engine oil is, but I just did an oil change and some of it might have splashed on it when I removed the drain plug.
I cleaned it and I'll keep an eye on it.
--

BTW my drive shaft (OEM) is new. I installed it about a month ago. (After my rear U-joint seized and snapped on the highway at 120kph...)--That would probably point to the drive shaft not being the issue but even new parts can fail.

I looked at my transmission oil and it's still full to the treads and clear with the usual SAF-XO bad smell. (It was changed 8000km ago)--This wouldn't tell you much on a slipping clutch or slipping drive shaft.

I didn't know you could see the gear spin from fill hole.--You might have to drain it down a little but there are trans gears just inside the fill hole.

I think my next step is to continue removing the swing arm and pull the drive shaft completely out and then run the engine and see if the transmission shaft spins with nothing attached to it.--Unless the clutch is so completely fried that there is nothing left I would imagine even a badly slipping clutch would have enough drive friction to turn an unloaded output shaft.
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#995206 - 08/23/17 01:32 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: dirtrider]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Quote:
Unless the clutch is so completely fried that there is nothing left I would imagine even a badly slipping clutch would have enough drive friction to turn an unloaded output shaft.


Evening DR

Thanks again for your input

I guess that the best way to know would be to remove the drive shaft and inspect it visually. If it looks good, then reassemble everything without the front rubber boot to see if the front part of the drive shaft spins when I run the engine in 1rst gear.

If the front spins and not the rear,it will mean the drive shaft is defective and if nothing spins that would mean it's the clutch.

While it's running on the center stand I can also look into the transmission fill hole to see if I can see gears spinning.

What do you think?


Edited by Dann (08/23/17 01:35 AM)
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995220 - 08/23/17 12:40 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Dann
Quote:
Unless the clutch is so completely fried that there is nothing left I would imagine even a badly slipping clutch would have enough drive friction to turn an unloaded output shaft.


Evening DR

Thanks again for your input

I guess that the best way to know would be to remove the drive shaft and inspect it visually. If it looks good, then reassemble everything without the front rubber boot to see if the front part of the drive shaft spins when I run the engine in 1rst gear.

If the front spins and not the rear,it will mean the drive shaft is defective and if nothing spins that would mean it's the clutch.

While it's running on the center stand I can also look into the transmission fill hole to see if I can see gears spinning.

What do you think?


Morning Daniel

Maybe just put the trans in 6th gear with engine "not running" then try to turn the rear wheel & see what moves where.

If front U joint moves (or trans gears move looking through trans fill plug hole) then probably a slipping clutch.

If the rear wheel moves but the front U joint doesn't, or the trans gears don't, then probably a slipping drive shaft isolator.
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#995273 - 08/23/17 09:27 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: dirtrider]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Evening DR

Here are the latest

Quote:

Maybe just put the trans in 6th gear with engine "not running" then try to turn the rear wheel & see what moves where.


The trans will not shift beyond first gear

Quote:
If front U joint moves (or trans gears move looking through trans fill plug hole) then probably a slipping clutch.


I don't see the gears through the oil but If I move the shaft by hand I can see the oil move and if I start the engine the oil is pushed out of the fill hole

Quote:
If the rear wheel moves but the front U joint doesn't, or the trans gears don't, then probably a slipping drive shaft isolator.


When I run the engine in first gear on the center stand, the rear wheel spins but I can stop it with my hand and the engine doesn't stall. Both ends of the shaft stop turning if I hold the rear wheel.

I took the shaft out and it still looks new.

It has to be the clutch.

Which parts will I need?
Only the friction disk or the whole thing?

I probably killed it when my rear U-joint broke and I limped my way off the Highway.
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995277 - 08/23/17 10:00 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Evening Daniel

Quote:

Maybe just put the trans in 6th gear with engine "not running" then try to turn the rear wheel & see what moves where.


The trans will not shift beyond first gear--This is disturbing, why won't it shift up? Did you try moving the rear wheel back & forth while you tried shifting.

Quote:
If front U joint moves (or trans gears move looking through trans fill plug hole) then probably a slipping clutch.


I don't see the gears through the oil but If I move the shaft by hand I can see the oil move and if I start the engine the oil is pushed out of the fill hole--You might have to drain it down a bit to see the gears but oil movement will be just as good.

Quote:
If the rear wheel moves but the front U joint doesn't, or the trans gears don't, then probably a slipping drive shaft isolator.


When I run the engine in first gear on the center stand, the rear wheel spins but I can stop it with my hand and the engine doesn't stall. Both ends of the shaft stop turning if I hold the rear wheel.--This does point to the clutch as being the problem.

I took the shaft out and it still looks new.--Good

It has to be the clutch.--It is pointing that way.

Which parts will I need? --No way to know until you get it apart.

Only the friction disk or the whole thing?--Could be either or both plus more.

I probably killed it when my rear U-joint broke and I limped my way off the Highway. --Very possible if you slipped the clutch a lot to move the bike.
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#995304 - 08/24/17 10:15 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
RobinW Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/13
Posts: 255
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Being stuck in first is a worry. But it looks like your on the way to pulling the gearbox.

I've done it a few times but never on a R1200. Just take your time and it will just come apart.

The reprom for the R1200 says the arse end comes away from the bike. The others I've done the backend lifts up. Mostly R1100's or KBikes.

I think you'll need to get in there for a look see.



_________________________
07 R1200RT-P
01 530i M-Sport

Top
#995351 - 08/24/17 11:27 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: RobinW]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
I've started taking the bike apart and everything look good so far.

I'm at the point where I have to disconnect both throttle-valve stubs



The RepROM shows a "Special" type of plier to do the job.



I do not have this tool

There must be something else available that can do the job?

UPDATE:
I've answered my own question...

This is called an oetiker clip plier.

They sell them on eBay but I'll try to see if I can find one locally which will be faster.


Edited by Dann (08/25/17 12:06 AM)
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995360 - 08/25/17 01:41 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada


Also,

These tools are mentioned in the RepROM.
Are they essential in order to do the job?

Is there any substitute

Centering pin


Engine locking device
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995370 - 08/25/17 09:55 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
RobinW Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/13
Posts: 255
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
I've used the clutch push rod as a centering tool. Get a socket, maybe 14mm, that fits into the spline hole in the clutch plate. Wrap electrical tape around one spot on the push rod, lots of it. Build it up so there's enough to push into the socket. So now you have a socket with the push rod sticking out of it. Might need to fiddle to get the right amount of push rod sticking out. Red neck centering tool.

Not sure where the locking hole is on the R1200 but I seem to remember there's a hole near the clutch on the R1100 and pushing the none bit end of a 1/4" drill bit into it locks the engine.
_________________________
07 R1200RT-P
01 530i M-Sport

Top
#995376 - 08/25/17 12:10 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Dann


Also,

These tools are mentioned in the RepROM.
Are they essential in order to do the job?

Is there any substitute

Centering pin


Engine locking device


Morning Daniel

You c-a-n get by without the clutch plate centering tool & guide by carefully eyeballing the clutch plate to be centered by looking straight on & looking through the clutch plate center hole. It might take a couple tries to get it centered enough to get the trans to slide back in (DON'T force trans into clutch disk)

As for the engine locking tool, again you c-a-n get by without a dedicated locking tool but you will have to find a way to hold the flywheel from turning while torqueing the bolts.
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#995492 - 08/27/17 03:44 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: dirtrider]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Quote:
ou c-a-n get by without the clutch plate centering tool & guide by carefully eyeballing the clutch plate to be centered by looking straight on & looking through the clutch plate center hole. It might take a couple tries to get it centered enough to get the trans to slide back in (DON'T force trans into clutch disk)

As for the engine locking tool, again you c-a-n get by without a dedicated locking tool but you will have to find a way to hold the flywheel from turning while torqueing the bolts.


Do independent shops use the BMW tools or do they have substitute tools to do the job?
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995495 - 08/27/17 10:18 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Dann
Quote:
ou c-a-n get by without the clutch plate centering tool & guide by carefully eyeballing the clutch plate to be centered by looking straight on & looking through the clutch plate center hole. It might take a couple tries to get it centered enough to get the trans to slide back in (DON'T force trans into clutch disk)

As for the engine locking tool, again you c-a-n get by without a dedicated locking tool but you will have to find a way to hold the flywheel from turning while torqueing the bolts.


Do independent shops use the BMW tools or do they have substitute tools to do the job?


Morning Daniel

That would probably depend on the shop & how many BMW clutch's that they change. If a shop does a lot of BMW work then they might justify buying the tools. If they only do a couple of clutches a year then they probably do like I do & build the essentials & work around the non essentials.
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#995553 - 08/28/17 12:50 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Evening DR

I've decided to order the Centring pin and the Engine locking device.

These items are under $40 each and I figured that with the money I'm saving on labor, they'll pay for themselves.

After 6 hrs of work,I'm almost at the step of separating the rear section of the bike.

I'm waiting for the clamp plier I need to disconnect the throttle valve stubs

The procedure is well explained and so far easy to follow in the RepROM

I take my time and try to be very methodical when I remove parts and screws. (I put them in separate plastic bags and label were they came from.)

I also take pictures for reference and I might even do a write up of my experience later.

So far everything is going well but I know I'm still at the easy part of the procedure.

One thing that worries me is how the drive shaft will mate with the trans spline when I put everything back together, since it has to engage and lock in place. I expect it to be hard to do with the front rubber boot in place.

If it gets too hard, I'll open the FD and tap it in from the rear.

One thing that I find annoying on my 07, is that it's impossible to open the FD and access the spline/ drive shaft without disconnecting the speed sensor (the cable is not long enough) and loose some fluid, which means to do a complete FD fluid change to make sure it has the right amount after it's put back together.

Update: After writing this I just realized that the speed sensor cable is now disconnected from the front and I think there is enough extra cabling to give a little more length in the rear. I'll have a look at it.



Edited by Dann (08/28/17 12:52 AM)
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995614 - 08/28/17 11:23 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
I'm sure I will need a least a clutch plate

The OEM Clutch Plate Part # 21 21 7 697 737 sells for $247.21 at A&S BMW
https://www.ascycles.com/Products/ProductID/14680

I could also get this after market one:

Ei Clutch Plate that sells for $79 from Ted Porter Beemer shop.
http://www.beemershop.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CLA97737

I also found this complete kit from Beemer Boneyard at $560
http://www.beemerboneyard.com/cla97737ck.html

There is major difference in price between the OEM and after market.
Any reason I should avoid the after market one?


Edited by Dann (08/29/17 12:32 AM)
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995682 - 08/29/17 03:57 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
Lone_RT_rider Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 5891
Loc: Germantown, WI
Maybe this was mentioned earlier in this thread, but I believe that the entire clutch assembly (pressure plate, clutch disk and flywheel) is balanced as an assembly at least on the Oilheads. It may, or may not be on the hex heads. If this is so, once you get the trans out you want to take a white paint pen and draw a line across the assembly so you can easily put the assembly back together as close to possible as it originally came.

I didn't heed this on my r1100RT When I did mine. I ended up pulling the entire thing apart again, using my static wheel balancer to check out which of the 6 possible combinations were the most balanced.

Mitch.... remember this?

Shawn

Top
#995695 - 08/29/17 08:20 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Lone_RT_rider]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Lone_RT_rider
Maybe this was mentioned earlier in this thread, but I believe that the entire clutch assembly (pressure plate, clutch disk and flywheel) is balanced as an assembly at least on the Oilheads. It may, or may not be on the hex heads. If this is so, once you get the trans out you want to take a white paint pen and draw a line across the assembly so you can easily put the assembly back together as close to possible as it originally came.

I didn't heed this on my r1100RT When I did mine. I ended up pulling the entire thing apart again, using my static wheel balancer to check out which of the 6 possible combinations were the most balanced.

Mitch.... remember this?

Shawn


Thanks for the warning thumbsup

It might not be needed on a R1200 though.

from the RepROM:
Quote:
The clutch components are all precision-balanced. It is not necessary to check for identification marks when assembling.
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995730 - 08/30/17 01:36 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
RobinW Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/13
Posts: 255
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted By: Dann

There is major difference in price between the OEM and after market.
Any reason I should avoid the after market one?

Anything with BMW on it costs da bomb down here. $13 for a dash bulb on my 530i. What the ...

I buy most parts from either motorworks or motobins in the UK. That's where I bought my clutch parts from. I didn't use OEM and had no issues.
I have rung them in the middle of the night from here, daylight there, and asked questions, very helpful.
Shipping from the USA to here is outrageous.

Check them out as a comparison but I think you guys have an issue importing stuff. We can bring in up to AU$1000 without customs getting involved.
_________________________
07 R1200RT-P
01 530i M-Sport

Top
#995754 - 08/30/17 07:58 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: RobinW]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
I've bought stuff from Moto-Bins before

I checked their web site and will probably end up buying their Kevlar friction plate
Quote:
30770HD
Part No.30770HD
CLUTCH FRICTION PLATE
HEAVY DUTY AND OIL PROOF.

R1200R / RT / GS / ST / S
RnineT

Thease heavy duty clutch plates are made from Kevlar which has the following advantages over the original plates :-

- Higher friction coefficient & better torque
- Higer heat resistance
- Longer lasting
- Oil resistant, can work in a bath of oil
- If overheated, it does NOT glaze instead it
returns to its normal state when cooled.


I'll order the pressure plate also if I need it.
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995758 - 08/30/17 08:08 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Afternoon Daniel

Just keep in mind that a good number of "HEAVY DUTY AND OIL PROOF" clutch disks have a rather harsh & grabby engagement.

I can't comment on the one that you are looking at but just a general comment about those oil proof clutch disks.
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#995869 - 09/01/17 01:50 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: dirtrider]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Originally Posted By: dirtrider
Afternoon Daniel

Just keep in mind that a good number of "HEAVY DUTY AND OIL PROOF" clutch disks have a rather harsh & grabby engagement.

I can't comment on the one that you are looking at but just a general comment about those oil proof clutch disks.


Evening DR

Thanks for warning

While shopping for clutch parts I noticed something that puzzled me on the Motoworks.com web site

They sell a clutch alignment tool similar to the OEM one (That I ordered)but they mention that it is not suitable for oil resistant friction discs

Quote:
Clutch alignment tool | TOA12652

Fits R1200
Any home mechanic who has struggled to line up a gearbox up to a misaligned clutch spline would appreciate how useful this tool can be.
The tool aligns the friction plate to the flywheel for proper position and ease of installation.
Please note that this tool is NOT suitable for the oil resistant type plates but IS suitable for use with the long spline version CLA33262 of the R1100S and R1150 friction plate.
We also sell a universal clutch alignment tool part number TOA12653 which suits all models of BMW with single plate clutch.



What is different with those discs and will the OEM tool work for them?



Edited by Dann (09/01/17 01:55 AM)
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#995884 - 09/01/17 11:17 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Dann
Originally Posted By: dirtrider
Afternoon Daniel

Just keep in mind that a good number of "HEAVY DUTY AND OIL PROOF" clutch disks have a rather harsh & grabby engagement.

I can't comment on the one that you are looking at but just a general comment about those oil proof clutch disks.


Evening DR

Thanks for warning

While shopping for clutch parts I noticed something that puzzled me on the Motoworks.com web site

They sell a clutch alignment tool similar to the OEM one (That I ordered)but they mention that it is not suitable for oil resistant friction discs

Quote:
Clutch alignment tool | TOA12652

Fits R1200
Any home mechanic who has struggled to line up a gearbox up to a misaligned clutch spline would appreciate how useful this tool can be.
The tool aligns the friction plate to the flywheel for proper position and ease of installation.
Please note that this tool is NOT suitable for the oil resistant type plates but IS suitable for use with the long spline version CLA33262 of the R1100S and R1150 friction plate.
We also sell a universal clutch alignment tool part number TOA12653 which suits all models of BMW with single plate clutch.



What is different with those discs and will the OEM tool work for them?



Morning Daniel

Good question. I don't know the answer but my g-u-e-s-s is that the tool doesn't fit the splines tight enough for the tool to force or hold the disk to center.

Maybe a call or E-Mail to the company as they should (hopefully) have the correct answer.

For a one time deal you can install the clutch disk to eyeball centered but leave the attaching bolts just loose enough to allow the trans input shaft to pull the disk to center as the trans is slid into place.

Then (with trans slid into place) reach in through the starter hole or down through the top cover opening & tighten the clutch bolts as much as you can (that will hold the disk solidly in place.

Then slide the trans back out & properly torque the clutch bolts.


Edited by dirtrider (09/01/17 11:18 AM)
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#995975 - 09/02/17 01:42 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
RobinW Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/13
Posts: 255
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
My redneck alignment tool has worked every time for me.

and only costs some tape so long as you have some metric deep sockets.
_________________________
07 R1200RT-P
01 530i M-Sport

Top
#996126 - 09/04/17 03:39 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: dirtrider]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
Afternoon DR
BTW Something is weird with the site.
This happened a few times: When I paste something in my reply, the preview looks ok, but when I post the reply, all the text is gone (Even the one I didn't paste). Only my signature shows up on the site.

Anyway,
This is the answer I got from Motoworks about the centring pin:
Quote:
The tools don't currently fit the oil resistant plates because the plates are just that much tighter.
Our tool is an exact copy of the BMW tool so I doubt that it would be any different.


Edited by Dann (09/04/17 04:34 PM)
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#996127 - 09/04/17 03:47 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
Member

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 13006
Loc: Ohio
Good Afternoon DR

re-posted from above Dann post.

This is the answer I got from Motorworks about the Centring Pin.
[quote]The tools don&#146;t currently fit the oil resistant the oil resistant plates because the plates are just that much tighter.

Our tool is an exact copy of the BMW tool so I doubt that it would be any different.


Edited by dirtrider (09/04/17 03:48 PM)
_________________________
D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!

Top
#996488 - 09/09/17 11:21 PM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: dirtrider]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
To add to the confusion, this is the answer I got from Moto-Bins (Where I got my friction disc from)


Quote:
We have not had any issues with the ones we have sold so far and not heard of this type of issue. As for the cantering tool, you don't usually need to use one on these bikes and don't sell one so can't check it. But, as I said, we have not had any reported issues with the plate.


This the one I got from Beemer boneyard

Quote:
That is a new one on me. Splines on the oil resistant clutches have to be the same as OEM or they would not fit on the transmission shaft.
Maybe the ones Motoworks sells are slightly different?


I guess I'll see when I get the tool and install the clutch...

(I'm still waiting for the grub screws that I need to remove the rear section of the bike and get to the clutch.)

I also found this video. It's not a R1200 but it's a similar type clutch. Just some more info to complement the RepROM which is so far very clear.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gzR4WHD-94
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#996903 - 09/15/17 12:04 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
I was able to separate the bike and get to the clutch today.

One step was not mentioned in the RepROM. There is a box where the throttle cables connect attached to the air box that needs to be removed before you can separate the frame.

This is what it looked like:






I had no issue installing the new one with the tool I had that wasn't supposed to be compatible with oil resistant clutch plates.

I replaced the whole clutch assembly but I will need to get a new cover. mine melted...

_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
#997043 - 09/16/17 10:38 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: Dann]
RobinW Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/13
Posts: 255
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Cripes mate, and you didn't notice it slipping?
How about the grinding sound from rivets on metal.
You'll need to replace everything.
_________________________
07 R1200RT-P
01 530i M-Sport

Top
#997158 - 09/18/17 12:48 AM Re: Bad smell under acceleration [Re: RobinW]
Dann Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Laval,, QC, Canada
The job is done now clap

Back on the road again

Everything went well.

I had to redo the whole drive shaft / swing arm replacement job also because the shaft slipped off the rear spline when I separated the bike in two.

With this new friction disc I feel like I have more torque than I ever had.

Thanks to everyone for your comments
_________________________
Daniel

If you can park it, and not turn around to admire it before walking away, you bought the wrong one.
IBA # 56396
MOA # 171966
R1200RT 2007

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >