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Hall Effect Sensor dies in the rain. Stranded. Should I remove/clean/dry?


Hotmop

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Riding through Noah-scale rain in the Adirondacks and the 98 R1100RT died like I hit the kill switch. It's been drying out for a couple days but still won't start.

 

I've got just the BMW tool kit, but also 2 more days of idle time vacation. I don't have access to the shop or Haynes books here.

 

Is there any point to removing the cover and switch plate to dry or clean it? Do I mess up timing in re-installing? Is there any adjustment I'd need to do?

 

My wife drove separately with the Outback, so I can Uhaul the bike home to MA if it comes to that.

 

Any advice welcomed

-Matt

Edited by Hotmop
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Do not remove it or disturb the wires. Assuming the HES and wiring is the original, the insulation on the wiring from the sensors to a connector below the front of the tank has deteriorated to the point that it is cracking and falling away from the actual metal strands.

 

Moving the wiring harness will likely make things worse.

 

It is possible to make a temporary repair, but that would be more of a last resort kind of thing. I would trailer the bike home and do the proper repairs where it will be much easier.

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Morning Hotmop

 

As Eddd says try not to disturb the HES harness.

 

Possibly remove the belt cover then use a hairdryer on the HES harness as far up as you can get. If you can get the wire harness dry without disturbing it too much then it might re-start.

 

More than likely nothing wrong with your HES sensor plate, it's the bare wires in the harness that short out or cross talk due to moisture.

 

Added: what is your dash & gauges doing when you try cranking the engine? It's also possible that your side stand switch is wet & causing the problem.

 

 

Edited by dirtrider
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Keep in mind that drying things out may get you started, but there is still a possibility that the bike may die again. The fact that you have been having problems prior to the total shut down is a big red flag.

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No need to remove it, as noted, it's ill-advised. I removed my HES to rewire it and on the bench thought I was chasing a fools' errand. The wires looked fine. Till I touched them. Then all the insulation literally became confetti on my bench.

 

For adjustment, yes the holes in the HES are slotted. Just make marks on it and the front of the motor with a scribe and put it back where you found it - then you don't need to set it. Not something you need now, but future reference when you re-wire it.

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Thanks to all for the advice. I did get the belt cover off just to air things out, but I'll go no further. I've read it also may start but die later down the road, so I think the trailer is the way.

 

Just to fill in details, I get full electrics on the dash and I can hear the fuel pump cycle when the side stand goes up, so I'm assuming its the classic "wet death" of the HES wiring.

 

Again, thanks to all for the replies

 

 

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Hotmop,

 

GSAddict here is the HES guru. Send him a PM. He's done two for me, excellent workmanship, better than new, and fast. He's in Canada and you'll have to ship your HES to him. USPS is best. Fill out the form at the PO with a "$0.00" value (it's dead, not worth anything). If you don't CA customs will levy an import duty and it will cost you a lot more U$D to ever see it again.

 

He uses your old sensor and rewires it with heat rated wire (unlike the OEM wires). The sensors are almost indestructible, it's always the wiring that BMW decided to save money on that fails, exactly as other describe above.

 

You'll have to remove the tank, disconnect the HES wiring connector back by the Alt and snake it out forward under the Alt. You don't have to move the Alt (I didn't).

 

Just BE SURE to do the scribe mark (good size scratch) as mentioned above so that you can re-position the plate when you get it back. EZPZ.

 

Salud

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Hotmop,

 

GSAddict here is the HES guru. Send him a PM. He's done two for me, excellent workmanship, better than new, and fast. He's in Canada and you'll have to ship your HES to him. USPS is best. Fill out the form at the PO with a "$0.00" value (it's dead, not worth anything). If you don't CA customs will levy an import duty and it will cost you a lot more U$D to ever see it again.

 

He uses your old sensor and rewires it with heat rated wire (unlike the OEM wires). The sensors are almost indestructible, it's always the wiring that BMW decided to save money on that fails, exactly as other describe above.

 

You'll have to remove the tank, disconnect the HES wiring connector back by the Alt and snake it out forward under the Alt. You don't have to move the Alt (I didn't).

 

Just BE SURE to do the scribe mark (good size scratch) as mentioned above so that you can re-position the plate when you get it back. EZPZ.

 

Salud

 

 

or...you can do the job yourself. This link will get you started. It is from the DIY section.

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Max BMW has a location in Albany -- that should be about a 2 hour drive... maybe less depending on where you're staying. (I grew up in the Adirondacks.)

It would be worth a call to see if they have a HES in stock. Yes, the part will be more expensive than if you DIY or send it out for a rebuild, but you'll have it in 4 hours. You could be back on the road by lunchtime. It's worth a call.

If it works out, you'll be saving the cost of a one-way UHaul rental, and salvaging a couple days of vacation too.

(For the record, I DIYed my HES harness when it went. It's not difficult, but I had the luxury of being at home when I did it.)

 

Edited by tvpierce
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Made it home. Uhaul wasn't too bad at $85 plus a new collection of ratchet straps. I'm reaching out to GSAddict to find out about his rebuild. (Though he doesn't come up under the user search? Found his email mentioned in a post.)

 

Worst case, the references to the oven wiring should do the trick.

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Made it home. Uhaul wasn't too bad at $85 plus a new collection of ratchet straps. I'm reaching out to GSAddict to find out about his rebuild. (Though he doesn't come up under the user search? Found his email mentioned in a post.)

 

Worst case, the references to the oven wiring should do the trick.

 

Maybe you need a space in that name?

 

GS Addict

 

 

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Hey, Hotmop,

 

Glad you and the bike made it home OK. I was thinking about you this weekend when I had the covers off my R11S and took this pic of the connector. You are looking at the right side of the bike with the tank removed. That's the HES connector at the tip of my finger (the long round connector laying on top of my finger is part of the AF-XiED connection). That's the alt behind and right of the connector.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

33jMMYHDGnpbSEgLqM5pHt7lVn_6F5pKArp74aQPED4IM13SxVE3KmuzJQQuWLim5T_PrZiAyv4HoSuKMBXzzI8pK1wOSITQV7jtWhrjpLOpqZPqRuiRlJ0vP0otMJqDoPzKTuFm6IqqRbvgXYDkPADX_55Vo1xPM9kmgLrwaw7olvZEffn_d6PIAUCQnVpFOQcBI3irvADvcv_I3xZCcPOufNaEuGk77cA6OOM2aYfEbq1NXB6ElpluAhdilUSAjFefNLj1z64LNBWWambggvmezu04gV-LR_IAMoUhfRR4bCGwG6t4KodyX8PYpPbk01hTSBPy3_i5E5foD0Wv1bNVeV81z4X2eiuBgZ4T6fhpaHLLRy_3wD1jouKuNYz4wQD9I5Crn6YFgOe5LmMMg3lX6n4cqneJ3-j6DzBdCfGVPfVYnkqE-5INupF3qAv6tN2WrCfyBmKnCmSIbOeEmzTE2EyLBQxFXGW1RVusRjzW1GX9gVQwe-8wugaPz8nHyITRPbQv-nz6R48Wi_64e5f8uxw81_N-g7Gmai9zQY4-4ph7xRjAlWm6TAismXe_Bu3SuR3UOgmpF1ww5XjYK0WWPex8Uq3K0JwrEnFJb0Uh7WeeyusnbAHQ6kXeXzjOez_jICuTU1rtLhdrUtY34s6J3W6cKkqEyA4UWLV90C8mDxA=w794-h595-no?.jpg

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That won't be the connector on the R1100RT and it actually isn't on your S either. Even if you went farther up the wires, the connector on your S won't match his RT.

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That won't be the connector on the R1100RT and it actually isn't on your S either. Even if you went farther up the wires, the connector on your S won't match his RT.

 

rxcrider,

 

You are correct about the RT and S connectors being different. I found that out the hard way. You may also be correct about this not being the HEs connector on the S, but it is the only wire I could find coming from the HES under the alt. As I remember the HES connector is in this location, too. ??

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Sorry - I typed that quickly and it sounds a bit harsh on the re-read. You are on the right wire bundle, but pointing to what I suspect is a strain relief. The connector is just a bit farther up towards the motronic module. The R1150xx & R1100S bikes share the same HES plug. The other R1100xx bikes get the older plug hiding under a vinyl(ish) hood and they don't have the "strain relief". Someone wiser may come along shortly and tell me it isn't a strain relief.

 

And as long as I'm guilty of sounding grumpy, it drives me nuts every time I pull the tank on a R1100xx and find the hood was cut to make it easier to unplug the HES. It isn't that hard to take an extra minute or two and do it without a knife.

Edited by rxcrider
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"... it drives me nuts every time I pull the tank on a R1100xx and find the hood was cut to make it easier to unplug the HES. It isn't that hard to take an extra minute or two and do it without a knife."

 

rxcrider,

 

You'd be pleased to see that the hood is still on my RT!! I seriously considered removing it but decided to try to do it without the hood-ectomy. As I remember the lack of slack in the wire was the real problem, plus the hood was old, stiff, and misshapened from the crowded confines. Took a bit to figure out the disconnect release, too.

 

bpaV8gV7JjWUF760yfADNczK2pmve33AZW1KhnMNPRQZtzRNjXKh0CCPnit2mmRMo7ha0yt-nH62YSYqf2B4hZ8gfeduySEaBlcrtr_PtSMGqcjbkdmCn9k9i1UoGgKii_a73xAaExAP-nOnI1xG1YmyWFWhF-N9RwnpkyDetroVpXUh1-W93aNuoCkn73JeD7ftObJ0p5BGMcqEeT7CcxDwP0wFF3fOSjol1XZuN1jTc8JDFR_wAWHBw9l_vF9vexKW0xXRkdSslmacZCLDWkRt-trwOBmtpAzU4jXRz7oaTqzLKJq3KcG4JCqGFToEQOhpOR1oqNIzacM-BT5jHj5HZOY7DaZDvzakjUCV-Ec2GhNp_1B2Z2C1-6TUhrNIRMsBH2DCjDSLe2WDgpqB-2xjut6BD3Rr7bsHA_doUv3MHsbIps1ROru-7fir-nX4hc59vatlcZvq97KBbJ0d104MIMdROB5YhVnXZ6wpeyukdFM4hncx51b1Rol0wiFem1JT82M0z9_4N8-Ex7rYUVaGPvp1qA6x7CEiZd_rPBA8GvID8-LcXK0_Dmr13CVGlLQWETDVY-k_SzS5iEN5iJ_5cqx04fWIpKHUv76nM2g0QlKY3t4f-u-dLXf_X4pQtMLvMjtGzl561y10FHER9ZMUf3njOAXLzg6wo8QrdKI7vw=w335-h595-no?.jpg

 

OEM wiring and connector from inside the hood:

I3CXfqWW9GqBcergBkSMVVeqx2Xrl35ksWROjQev0V3iGI91m0Gu86f_SF9UTGW6bkbJHacBxQqQ3NEVzp_RJqU3giqE3U2JWMfB2q_dqYs5Yenrf9KYurSFO2ifDBpx9IKHmwKkZxGrvhyvhoCUJDh9P24Po_VfHEp1D3t20NlCfxJEz_97bhhdfiftaEKT2UUKXy3jivYKx0CksO0Kinzh4O9robbAgB4_km0uiJ-LrTW2EaC2XT7u-A7MeGz5QjHT0B-o7QUOQpGABK0uw8d8L-HiWkBgTH6oclJsK2Euhkt6RPxZh1vZdTsuYYJt43Ki4_poNU9sHljpzA7tznHinsZdm1w6HrGY6ReGdnEOtfR-8Mry3vj5fqfFPUDbud_ixCChzqgGud1RkjjILBXSeCJqMVAqs-R4LhX3Vlagakyt8CjPHJohQdjZ9zqVMZ1Pd4kva1O9Mw4cyLjrRpeon7h4FrYUfDx3SnRrwzSEeca5SnQkhFH7H7PjAQ0pJO_-UEVvl5VBSJ7unjQbz3P9kUMCHHQ19mhq000tOmDsd1O3xkn9d0xCrkl5XU5_5XtSTER56OBB8NcbypadL-APR4hk2heqYGAOqoRsQBhUrudBsnxkUqoeAev6wiiAlZ-nLdGPsHj-qkLxnV-dW540wRYl1vKh7-LKqpkOne2TJQ=w335-h595-no?.jpg

 

GSAddict's beautiful re-wire job and a brand new connector for the R1100RT:

w2p3kqnqyHfNvNQ-i_vogZCMdtwx4N2bJAmRlctlQJoBcMECAZtC2nqtNCDfH7F1wOjT6C0VhP_MW6ja9xiJJhvTOSpxUCk8K1CV79Z5Jl3Jxbg6u8QKcodB9CiKVn7-Xw0ebuRn9MluDDNOn0ApklEx_G-FCuM0ZzuBd4zkkjfV8SW2xpZr1vw-qAHH-VB4pTX6i5udQC-RriMEQ6xFTDhjmO_4M9TI4Pby2qw8a6pQBdhrLnjW8eMRUJe4ToQtcT-wFfudVIr0X48GKE3tjKyVVyQVql79ovlVdfT-V1wd0kQc2Zbx0fNlEH6e_K9Bs_x-csPFAeuexNCWfjf9wSw-BJbqfaDxfSZzPgDZT2meBCe5cpA-f6ggk7b8LQQW0kWjJlaIHQknKLghWDYcerEjOop7Kihh7Un_pALfuqlZaQA3_4Oj6Xnl2sqtHkwx966wYLLi4fpucoKb9U9Tkd3R4XMq34jhlxBK8k02ZtTUrELgBkLodrqHhdSnsMaEmfPo55gEJfm0cuse2LHeyxCm4UTr4YTCTGDIxcTaQf_MDvJmLAP1URwX-joAVQhF-fM4Y3hKGscmMyUf4Ogaa6Eif-VH8zRm2vDoxbbEpMNkGNizcITD0Ui8wUaMlZNxq7A20G0xHP3dLiBxwFav-54YTFk6Bkp9ay391_nT615GSw=w335-h595-no?.jpg

 

It was so well done and pretty that I hated to install it and cover it up.

F2kLrgyLg_N-qTmtoooKTYVdLgxgYZxCua_4P-h8I0r2aWuiV1K926sNBO3WKXLLwJt9uAU565xOz7zTmwA3f4HVdKwZLMr0cqLuUnintKL6WxIt4yF095aDXT18dl9Rq7jCeRHDMGo1bn1rKZAXokS4wzeSCDRrer9nGkAnGyhxHQxjneiZIO3p2ZiH49RrJlM59ar1HJGUoAKmm7I3Yf6IZZbX1M0sghe3HVtkT2MiKS0SfjaKcoQ50eM21poo1Ym_W3YEvDqLquX4mS6dlKhdLuEm0KfhpS13pVsyoRyqJncA154P12fB5_E6tHG2k_wKZW7-xm8OME_cWJ55vBMJpHSTDw48NDyKPu_H1c8gDktUToziHIrJeYyV5XaMFKHP5WmpM-o-izRb_Kdhuykttxh2XrucuIRORTwqqx8wgk6cCFq3T1mFJhpYzLgUliTJvl7eFNY5WB6Yo73YB64GqqZISgCGHLN75js4KSz4T_q94TzBW2xoH4Z7ih29Wu5xutKnoWsDj1ORvBehsdnkCedRD10ahNJX_E0q-cuYx3fXf5ydRdV36AMlzwQ53cPYmEEcCStIUeXaI8VqfVroyOul1AV0GhGIaqB-pBALmgS_DTQcFK1MjRH3yjnDpkTDNOFQ8xTTWS5Dr-kL0bLrOMPFnk_AVFxPuQBjDDuHQw=w1058-h595-no?.jpg

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Having never been into the HES removal business, I cut the connector hood open so I could see how to loosen the plug. Also, I wanted to be certain it would be firmly fastened upon installation. Gorilla tape sealed the hood.

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Squeezing from the sides (through the hood) releases the clips and with a bit of wiggling the plug will pull out. I had one where the clips didn't want to release and it took a bit of work with a tiny flat blade screw driver from below to persuade them to move the last little bit. If the hood is crusty, nasty and stiff, the judicious use of a bit of brake parts cleaner on a rag will clean it up and soften the material as well. Cleaning the terminals and a light coat of dielectric grease makes it go back together in a snap.

 

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Here is a picture of the wires of the original HES.

 

Just replace with a new one this last month.

 

 

IMG_0412_zps6cylubyt.jpg

Edited by JMitchell
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Is this a picture of your own HES wiring, or one supplied by GS Addict" It looks just like the one he sent me of what I was led to believe was my own personal HES but since it has reappeared, he must post "stock" pics. In any event, he rewired mine and sent it back very quickly.

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Sorry, no, that pic posted by JMitchell isn't mine. Must be GSAddict's.

rxcrider's pic with the dark background is much better than mine and does justice to the work of GSAddict.

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  • 1 year later...
On 9/1/2017 at 8:30 AM, JMitchell said:

Here is a picture of the wires of the original HES.

 

Just replace with a new one this last month.

 

 

IMG_0412_zps6cylubyt.jpg

 

 

How did this ever function in this state?  I am appalled at the durability of BMW's wiring on oilheads.

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5 hours ago, Kerlaan said:

How did this ever function in this state?  I am appalled at the durability of BMW's wiring on oilheads.

 

Hey Kerlaan,

 

The OEM wiring insulation was good for years but succumbed to engine heat (the plasticizers gradually leach out) leaving the plastic VERY fragile. All this happens INSIDE the black plastic sheath that still looks new, too.   Vibrations (assuming BMW's HAVE vibrations), road bumps, etc, will cause the insulation to flake off.  The wires will then short on each other or to ground.  The problem seems to start with WATER, rain or washing the bike.  The electrical current in the wires is miniscule so maybe it is drained off by the wet and porous slightly conductive mix. 

 

The problem seems to start at about 15 years with the higher mileage bikes.  A friend called me Sunday evening last, stranded on the way to the Keys with his son in a monsoon in Tampa on his new-to-him, low miles '97 RT with sudden flame-out.  Told him I'd bet the house it was the HES. 

 

He had the bike towed to a nearby shop, left a note, got a room, and called me.  I emailed GS Addict but he was on a ride and would not be home for several days but suggested EME.  I emailed my flame-out friend and suggested he call EME first thing Mon morning and get Lori there to FEDEX a HES to the shop and he would be back on the road Tuesday after lunch.  He did and was on the road Tues, as planned.  So, it is still happening.

 

The VERY SAME THING happens to the OEM black "rubber" brake lines, and NOT just on BMW's.  At 15 years and they begin to go.  BMW saved maybe $2-3 with the cheapo wiring, probably less.  Maybe they just didn't expect the bikes to still be around.  However NO system on and bike will last forever and it would be a real mess if everything failed at the same time.

 

 

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Hello Lowndes,

 

Yes, what you state in general is what I see.  My 2000 R1100RT that I bought has very poor condition wiring.  Something I couldn't see when I bought it.  So I am in process of repairing many elements of the harness in situ.  Also your point on the brake lines; elsewhere was a comment that the front brake lever was spongy on a similar age machine to mine.  I saw a bulging lower left hose, but am in process of changing all the brake flexibles.  20 years of use (and abuse by prior owners?) is a long life.  I would be interested to know what the design life forecast was when BMW designed and manufactured.

 

Ride safe man!

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Kerlaan,

 

A military preacher riding buddy of mine was stationed in Germany years ago and bought a VERY nice 1990's era red 190 Mercedes convertible there and brought it back to the states.  Shortly thereafter he began to have all kinds of wiring issues.  He did some digging and found that Germany passed a LAW back then that required all vehicle wiring insulation to be BIO-DEGRADABLE (automatically decomposes).  I think he said 15 years was magic date when it began to fall apart by itself.  It only affected a few years worth of production.  The vehicles for direct import to other countries did not have that requirement and were OK.  He had to have the entire wiring harness replaced.  And he's not a DIY guy!!  He still drives it.

 

I think the R1100xx wiring issue was a $-saving thing the BMW "CAR-BOYS" thought up.

 

BEWARE when tree-huggers and politicians get together!!

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