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Do GS Intake Manifolds improve torque even with AF-XiED?


Bert Remington

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Bert Remington

I recently purchased a 2000 R1100RT 76K miles. This is my first experience with BMW's over-square opposed-twin engine (I had a K100 30 years ago). While I don't seem to have the surge problem (or at least it isn't bothersome) there are anomalies throughout the throttle range, especially during deceleration coming to a stop. I also miss the torque range a less over-square engine provides (see my Mustang description at end).

 

The motorcycle has an O2 sensor (I believe original); original exhaust; Blue CCP (the Blue paint looks like someone pulled the connector apart and pushed it together again; it is tie-wrapped down); untouched Blue paint on TPS screws; BBSs in same visual position (ie, both slots parallel to ground); paper air filter; MCC's electronic cruise control with vacuum servo (one-way valves at TB vacuum ports); no evaporation canister (removed as part of cruise control installation); and 170psi both cylinders.

 

After reading the various fora (very very helpful thank you) I purchased and will install the following to improve and smooth torque band and throttle behavior:

 

(1) Nightrider's AF-XiED fuel management

(2) Till's EV14 injectors

(3) Autolite 3923APP spark plugs (PP is designed for DISs like BMWs)

(4) keeping paper air filter and original exhaust and cruise control

 

My first question is: would replacing the RT intake manifolds (tubes) with GS tubes continue the improvement and smoothing of the torque band and throttle behavior? As a solo rider with this over-square engine I'll give up horsepower to get torque.

 

My second question is: should I replace O2 sensor at 76K miles or wait until 100K? I know in the absence of contamination the sensors deteriorate with slower response times (I doubt 2.2 ECU cares since it has no means to detect which cylinder is firing) and lower output voltage (I'm sure 2.2 ECU compensates).

 

Of course any suggestions, recommendations and critiques are welcome. Thank you.

 

----------

 

Track car Mustang: 1989 GT with professionally-built 1996 Explorer 5.0L; E303 cam; Edelbrock small-valve heads and lower intake manifold; Extrude Honed Explorer upper intake manifold; 72mm C&L MAF; 30lph injectors and BBK long-tube headers. I went through three World Class T-5s before getting a Tremec TKO (T-5 cases spread reducing 3rd gear tooth engagement). Pretty much a flat, smooth 4K torgue band. Not enough horsepower to get past 125-130mph (Fontana) but everyone who drives it comes back grinning (Miata drivers: I want one I want one).

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Afternoon Bert

 

The motorcycle has an O2 sensor (I believe original); original exhaust; Blue CCP (the Blue paint looks like someone pulled the connector apart and pushed it together again; it is tie-wrapped down); --The Blue CCP isn't original, the blue CCP (assuming unmodified) is the low-octane-fuel, reduced power, CCP.

 

 

untouched Blue paint on TPS screws; BBSs in same visual position (ie, both slots parallel to ground); --BBS screw slot position is not an indicator of screw position (ie turns out from seated)

 

paper air filter; MCC's electronic cruise control with vacuum servo (one-way valves at TB vacuum ports); no evaporation canister (removed as part of cruise control installation); and 170psi both cylinders.-- 170 PSI is decent.

 

After reading the various fora (very very helpful thank you) I purchased and will install the following to improve and smooth torque band and throttle behavior:

 

(1) Nightrider's AF-XiED fuel management

(2) Till's EV14 injectors

(3) Autolite 3923APP spark plugs (PP is designed for DISs like BMWs)

(4) keeping paper air filter and original exhaust and cruise control

 

My first question is: would replacing the RT intake manifolds (tubes) with GS tubes continue the improvement and smoothing of the torque band and throttle behavior? As a solo rider with this over-square engine I'll give up horsepower to get torque.--You will have to try it, personally I haven't seen much of any torque improvement on the 1100 engines once the fueling is richened enough to pull cleanly. They do sound more powerful as the intake droning noise increases.

 

My second question is: should I replace O2 sensor at 76K miles or wait until 100K? I know in the absence of contamination the sensors deteriorate with slower response times (I doubt 2.2 ECU cares since it has no means to detect which cylinder is firing) and lower output voltage (I'm sure 2.2 ECU compensates).--If you still have the original o2 sensor then a replacement might help if you are going to run an AF-XiED as the AF-XiED needs a proper functioning & responsive o2 sensor.

 

If you decide to try running without a CCP (a LOT of used to run the 1100 that way) then no need to replace the o2 sensor as no-CCP takes the o2 sensor out of the fueling control loop.

 

 

 

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Bert Remington

Thank you again dirtrider.

 

WRT GS tubes, I will defer decision until I have several months experience with AF-XiED, EV14s and 3923APPs. I was aware of droning issue and was hoping marginal or no benefit meant I could keep RT tubes.

 

WRT O2 sensor, my understanding is R1100RT version involves cutting some O2 signal wires. With this in mind I'll check with Nightrider and perhaps roger 4 rt on their O2 replacement recommendation, both when and what Bosch p/n.

 

WRT to CCP, between RealOEM and Bike Bandit it appears I need a $8.86 61368366282 (Golden Brown) to return motorcycle to the original ECU configuration. I'll continue my research to verify this as best I can as I want to retain O2 closed loop functionality. Interesting: RealOEM says this CCP is used in BMW's cars.

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Thank you again dirtrider.

 

WRT GS tubes, I will defer decision until I have several months experience with AF-XiED, EV14s and 3923APPs. I was aware of droning issue and was hoping marginal or no benefit meant I could keep RT tubes.

 

WRT O2 sensor, my understanding is R1100RT version involves cutting some O2 signal wires. With this in mind I'll check with Nightrider and perhaps roger 4 rt on their O2 replacement recommendation, both when and what Bosch p/n.

 

WRT to CCP, between RealOEM and Bike Bandit it appears I need a $8.86 61368366282 (Golden Brown) to return motorcycle to the original ECU configuration. I'll continue my research to verify this as best I can as I want to retain O2 closed loop functionality. Interesting: RealOEM says this CCP is used in BMW's cars.

 

Evening Bert

 

No need to buy a CCP, you can just make up jumper wires to connect the required pins (see pin positions below).

 

All the CCP contains is simple jumpers between terminals.

 

If you need other color CCP's I have those pin positions if you need them.

 

cAJoZlw.jpg

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At that mileage, I would also be worried about if the HES has been re-wired/replaced and the state of the fuel hoses & filter.

 

I went round and round thinking I had an AF-XiED problem... it was the HES. I assumed it had been taken care of, from talking to the seller and the quality of the mod he'd done - but it was either so old it needed doing again or just had never become an issue.

 

A new O2 made my AF-XiED much more responsive. The lights went from lazy to spastic.

 

Scott

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Morning Bert

 

I might have inadvertently misled you about your blue CCP!

 

The Blue CCP definitely isn't original on the 1100RT but there are sort of 2 blue CCP's. One a (grayish-very light blue)-- That is the low octane CCP.

 

The other is more of a (dove blue or brighter blue) & that is for the 1100RS with cat. (I forgot all about this one when I made the original post above)

 

The bright blue is (30/86/87a)

 

The light grayish blue is (30/86/87)

 

The old (stock) 1100RT's would usually run the best across most operating ranges with NO CCP as that forced the non-cat European open-loop operation. (this will leave a fairly rich idle unless an idle trim pot is added)--Adding an idle trim pot is easy as the wiring is there BUT leaning out the idle defeats a lot of the open-loop (light-throttle-opening) gain. Personally, I always found the no-CCP condition gave the least (light-throttle-opening) lower gear surging. -- (just keep in mind that most of my ride observations were made back when there was a lot less E-10 fuel being used) --It's possible that E-10 fuel usage could tilt the fueling control back in favor of closed-loop being better.

 

If you want to keep the o2 sensor in the loop & keep the bike somewhat emission compliant then the Pink CCP ( 30/87/87a) is one of the better CCP's to run.

 

Or try the yellow (30/87)--Personably, I never really liked this one but some riders did.

 

Some also ran the pale yellow "greenish" (30/86) but I never liked that one as it felt dead on upper RPM throttle response.

 

With jumper wires you can try them all to see what you like best.

 

Once you install the AF-XiED then either go back to the stock CCP or run what they tell you to.

 

TzucsZ2.jpg

Edited by dirtrider
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Hey, Bert. Congrats on the RT and welcome to the forum. Looks like you've done some really serious homework on the bike already.

 

The AF-Xied made a huge difference in my r11s. Soooo much easier to ride. It will take a few tanks for it to get fully registered. Do the Techron Concentrate that Dirtrider recommends, too.

 

You know about the HES issues per avu3 above. You may not know or be able to find out if it has been upgraded already. GSAddict on here might be able to help identify if it is a modern OEM, rebuilt unit, or original part, all from a pic. However, if you remove it and reinstall it, and it still works, I'd bet the house it's been done already.

 

You might save some time and money by getting the matched EV14 injectors (refurb or new) plus adapters from Keith Gibbons at Injector Rehab in NJ. Injector Rehab

 

You might be past the time of the spline issue which means you're OK there.

 

Left side cam chain tensioner upgrade??

 

+ Jumper lug on starter cover??

 

LED bulbs everywhere.

 

Spiegler brake lines?? (if yours are the OEM black rubber, you're living on borrowed time there).

 

I'd bet your TB's really need cleaning, too. Do that with the injector swap. BBS port, especially clean. Then reset TPS, air balance (Bowden box and BBS).

 

Get a Clymer to have, too. It will be very handy. Ebay is the place for these.

 

Let us know how it's going, post some pics.

 

Salud

 

 

 

 

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Bert Remington

To begin, I mistakenly thought the Blue connection was the CCP. After seeing dirtrider's pictures I consulted Clymer's and Doug Raymond's schematics and found my error. The Blue connection is the ECU and ABS diagnostic access: 1 = ECU Fault Code Output; 2 = Program Enable Input; 3 = ABS Fault Code Output. Sigh... Apologies to all.

 

The motorcycle has the stock Gold CCP with pins 30 and 87 connected. There were tool marks on the top as if someone removed it with pliers rather than the BMW tool. Other than that everything looked unmodified.

 

I've pondered the recommendations I received (thank you) and decided to start over on changes to the motorcycle. I originally planned on three stages about 1-2K miles apart:

 

(1) remove fuel tank, exhaust and drivetrain: replace clutch

 

(2) remove fuel tank: AF-XiED, EV14s and 3923APPs

 

(3) remove fuel tank and disassemble console: major service (including fuel tank hoses), alternator diode (remote), cornering/auxiliary lights, GPS tracker (it has emergency alert and remote kill features), heated vest controller and SAE power outlets

 

This gave me both wrench and road familiarization time with the motorcycle. Now with HES and O2 recommendations I'm thinking do everything at once while waiting for HES rebuild. Strip it down and build it back up -- I did it with the Mustang and it worked great. I'll add SS brake lines to the list.

 

As I discussed in another topic I have a slipping clutch due to early wear. I'll go through the handlebar- and transmission-end adjustments again (they changed for some mysterious reason during removal of starter for clutch inspection) and see if I can get 1-2K road time while I'm preparing for the BIG ONE described above. Off to assemble my parts list and make some vendors happy. Thanks all.

 

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Bert Remington

OFN -- WRT LEDs: Headlight successful (see my Bike Related Things post); BMW's flasher relay makes turn signal replacement a pain (I'm against resistors philosophically); MCCruise cautions about brake and turn LEDs; I'll probably do instrument LEDs in a few months when I have more riding experience with this specific motorcycle and can intelligently choose colors, lumens, etc. The previous owner installed a very nice, nifty "farkle" shelf but it shadows instruments in bright sun so am considering under-shelf LEDs for daytime.

 

Did you post your LED installation? Yeah I know search is your friend but its late and I'm tired from thinking about all the stuff I'm planning for the motorcycle.

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OFN -- WRT LEDs: Headlight successful (see my Bike Related Things post); BMW's flasher relay makes turn signal replacement a pain (I'm against resistors philosophically); MCCruise cautions about brake and turn LEDs; I'll probably do instrument LEDs in a few months when I have more riding experience with this specific motorcycle and can intelligently choose colors, lumens, etc. The previous owner installed a very nice, nifty "farkle" shelf but it shadows instruments in bright sun so am considering under-shelf LEDs for daytime.

 

Did you post your LED installation? Yeah I know search is your friend but its late and I'm tired from thinking about all the stuff I'm planning for the motorcycle.

 

Morning Bert

 

If you install LED's for the dash do not install an LED in the (generator light) socket.-- The alternator gets it initial (start charging) rotor excitation from the generator light circuit so adding a higher resistance LED bulb is not advised. In fact we used to up the generator light wattage to 3 watts to get an earlier charging system start-up charging.

 

It will still charge if you use an LED bulb but it then usually takes revving the engine after starting to get it to start charging.

 

Until the alternator comes on line the system voltage will be lower so that lowers fuel pump, fuel injector, coil, voltage & that weakens the spark & weakens the fuel spray.

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Bert Remington

AF-XiED -- in hand

EV14s -- in hand

HES rewire -- coordinating schedule with GS Addict

Cam chain tensioner upgrade -- ordered from RCR, now I know cause of 2-sec startup rattle

SS brake lines -- ordered from Galfer, Black lines with Silver fittings for stock look

LED everywhere -- proceeding with caution (thanks for indicator light caution dirtrider)

jumper lug -- took me awhile to figure this one out; I'll see how my other plans work out (will publish in Bike Related Things)

TB and BBS cleaning -- will be cautious since many chemicals can damage seals, etc (I was horrified when someone said they were using basket-style carb cleaner -- that stuff can eat seals in minutes)

TPS adjust -- screws have original Blue paint so won't touch unless absolutely necessary

intake air balance -- will use in hand CarbMate TS-110

Clymer -- provided by previous owner together with Haynes and all farkle data

 

This isn't all that I'm doing, just my response under this topic. When I'm done with oilhead engine-related work in a few weeks I'll publish in this forum (farkles will be in Bike Related Things). I don't know how to do pictures with new Photobucket policy and have no other website (my e-mail service provides one but I don't know how to safely and securely use it).

 

More advice welcome -- after all its my money and time. :)

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"I don't know how to do pictures with new Photobucket policy and have no other website (my e-mail service provides one but I don't know how to safely and securely use it)."

 

Bert,

 

The "+" jumper lug might be the easiest thing to do on your list. You might consider adding a "-" lug to the cam cover. Finding a good ground connection for jumper cables is not easy without gouging paint or scarring aluminum. Just remove the Fillister screw in the cam cover and replace it with the same type stainless lug that you get for the "+" lug on the starter cover.

 

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For posting pics Google Photos is free and works well. There is a short procedure, however.

 

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Edited by Lowndes
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The OP purchased an R1100RT. The positive jumper lug just pictured here is an RS. The RT jumper post gets attached to the battery and pokes out from beneath the gas tank.

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The starter on a '96 R1100RT is behind the fairing cover. It is easier to remove the seat to attach jumper cables directly to the battery posts just underneath the back of the fuel tank.

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Bert Remington

I didn't put O2 sensor on the list because I hadn't decided on stock or other Bosch sensor. I decided on stock sensor which EME will deliver next week.

 

For the AF-XiED my plan is to cut the signal wire on the sensor side of the stock connector. Then I will use 2-pin waterproof connectors to either insert the AF-XiED into the circuit or bypass it using a jumper (four connectors total: 1-wire for ECU and sensor; 2-wires for AF-XiED and jumper). I know the AF-XiED won't fail but people keep asking before/after questions and this arrangement might help with answers.

 

I will do the same for the remote alternator diode, ie provide a bypass for a failed diode to retain a charging capability albeit at a lower (standard) voltage.

 

HES rewire -- coordinating schedule with GS Addict

 

Had to make an early payment on CC -- remind me what BMW stands for. :)

 

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Roger C, I took Lowndes advice and installed the AF-Xied and couldn't be happier. 1500 - 2500 rpm is now usable range and I run 87 octane without worry(I'm using setting 6 btw).

 

Whether this is the most cost effective way to get that result or not, I consider it my hobby so as long as it's reasonable, bringing more wallet to hobby is given for me.

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The OP purchased an R1100RT. The positive jumper lug just pictured here is an RS. The RT jumper post gets attached to the battery and pokes out from beneath the gas tank.

 

Oops. You, sir, are correct. Thanks for the correction!!

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