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#995372 - 08/25/17 11:29 AM Why - the thread of bad engineering ...
Sonor Offline
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Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 766
Loc: Orange County, NC
I am going to start this, the thread of bad engineering. So feel free to post your observations as well.

So you have an air bag in your steering column that will engage with a front end collision. They are now telling student drivers to have their hands at 3 and 9 as having them at 10 & 2 could hurt your thumbs should the air bag deploy. (as I was informed by my niece) But here's the thing - most cars to engage the horn you press where? Directly on the air bag! If you are about to hit some dumb ass that just ran a stop sign, your brakes are locked and you are using your horn - where is your hand? On top of the air bag!

Next?


Edited by Sonor (08/25/17 11:30 AM)
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R1200RT 05
"If cagers can do something stupid, they will."

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#995378 - 08/25/17 12:28 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
Living the Dream Offline
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Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 1291
Loc: Walnut Cove, North Carolina
They should also get rid of the passenger dash pad to prevent people from putting their feet up there lest they end up with knees through the head from the passenger air bag.

I think that most people, if seeing imminent impact, will not be beeping the horn but hold the steering wheel bracing for impact.....just a SWAG.
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Richard
Laborare pugnare paratus sum
2014 HP4
2010 Shadow RS
2006 R1200rt
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#995416 - 08/25/17 07:16 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
Joe Frickin' Friday Offline

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Registered: 07/28/00
Posts: 17552
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI (USA)
Originally Posted By: Sonor
But here's the thing - most cars to engage the horn you press where? Directly on the air bag!


This bothers me, but for a different reason. I like to be able to cover the horn without taking a hand off of the wheel. Placing the horn button at the center of the wheel (i.e. as part of the airbag cover) makes this impossible. My last car had a big airbag cover, so I could have a thumb over the edge of it without having to release my grip on the rim. Current car is more like you describe, as is my wife's car. Bummer.

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#995419 - 08/25/17 07:57 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
Rider1200RT Offline
Member

Registered: 08/09/03
Posts: 660
Loc: FT. Lauderdale
How about inaccessible oil filters, spark plugs and air filters?? Various vehicles have that. Makes me wonder why engineers and designers aren't mechanics first.. The 1200RTW has an air filter buried under ALL the tupperware. A previous generation F150 needed the drivers side front wheel removed to access the oil filter. I could go on... java


Edited by Rider1200RT (08/25/17 07:58 PM)
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2017 R1200RT
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#995424 - 08/25/17 08:20 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
Medic Mike Offline
Member

Registered: 01/03/11
Posts: 327
Loc: Raleigh, NC
One of my favorites are with the Chevy Volt, Nissan Leaf and Toyota Prius. The fine engineers at these companies thought it was a good idea to run MAJOR high voltage wiring through the A posts (front posts on both driver and passenger where the windshield and windows are connected) then run them along the top of the vehicle to the back. This makes it almost impossible to cut someone out of a car without getting electrocuted. Pat will probably have a better explanation than I.
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2011 R1200RT Ostra Gray
2006 R1200RT Piedmont Red (totaled)
2004 R1150 RT-P my first love (re-homed)
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#995431 - 08/25/17 11:20 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Rider1200RT]
tallman Offline
Picture Perfect Humorist
Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 19611
Loc: Tallahassee, Florida
Originally Posted By: Rider1200RT
How about inaccessible oil filters, spark plugs and air filters?? Various vehicles have that. Makes me wonder why engineers and designers aren't mechanics first.. The 1200RTW has an air filter buried under ALL the tupperware. A previous generation F150 needed the drivers side front wheel removed to access the oil filter. I could go on... java



Yes, but, aren't we rotating tires at the oil change on an F 150?
Not saying good engineering, but not a problem, IMO.

Monza engine pull to access last spark plug, now that's a good one.
lurk
_________________________
If my mind wanders, should I follow it?
Tim
Conch Town Krewe
2003 K 1200 GT
1996 R 100 RSL
1980 R 100 RT
1972 R 75
1968 R 50
All now gone...


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#995434 - 08/26/17 12:35 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
elkroeger Offline
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Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 3017
Loc: Rochester WA
Friend of mine had a mid 80s honda. Oil filter was tight up against the firewall. Only way to reach it was from below. And you got your whole arm covered in oil as a reward for your diligence.
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#995437 - 08/26/17 12:56 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
Dave McReynolds Offline
Member

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 3857
Loc: Sacramento, CA
Tangentally related to engineering, since if engineers are going to design them, we still have to use them, is the abysmal state of instruction manuals in the 21st century. In the 20th century, if you bought something, it came with an instruction manual that explained it in detail. One would think that in the 21st century, with improvements in word processing, hyperlinks, sorting, etc., it should get even better. I should be able to type in the VIN of my 2015 Ford F-250 and get a detailed instruction manual for my particular truck, covering all of its features and none of the features that it doesn't have. Instead, I get a thick manual where the first 40 pages are all legal CYA language. Out of the rest of the book, about 1/2 covers features I have and 1/2 covers features I don't have. There should be another 1/4 covering features I have, but either aren't explained or are glossed over in typical millennial fashion. Some of the missing parts would have covered fairly important features, like use of the 4 WD and the integration of all the features you can use to control speed going down hill, but I had to discover those through OJT. There is a button on my steering wheel which is not explained in the manual, and nobody I have asked at the dealer know what it is supposed to do. I have pushed it a few times in different circumstances, but it has never done anything.

I could go on and on, but another example should suffice. I have a sound system in my Airstream trailer. I remember vaguely that it can be adjusted for different sound preferences. Recently, I got the idea that more sound was coming out of the speakers in the bedroom than the speakers in the dinette, and I was sure that there was a way to re-balance the sound. I read the manual, such as it is, which told me to push a particular button to get to the sound menu. I pushed the button and it took me to the general menu instead. So I reread and re-pushed about ten times, including trying other buttons once I got to the general menu in a forlorn hope that maybe there was a way to get to a second level of menus that they might have glossed over. No luck. The next day, I was rummaging around in the cabinet the sound system unit was in and I came across the clicker for it, which I never use because I have never needed it for anything, and frankly forgot that it came with one. Right on the front, among a hundred other buttons labeled with helpful descriptions such as "pty/ct" is a button labeled "sound" which takes you to the sound menu.
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#995441 - 08/26/17 01:29 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Dave McReynolds]
lkraus Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 1196
Loc: Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: Dave McReynolds
There should be another 1/4 covering features I have, but either aren't explained or are glossed over in typical millennial fashion.


I'm pretty sure this omission is intentional. If there is no explanation of how a feature should work, you have no basis for complaint when it does not work as you might expect. I'm convinced Garmin uses this strategy to save on support costs.
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2006 R1200RT

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#995442 - 08/26/17 01:31 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Medic Mike]
TEWKS Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6687
Loc: Tewksbury, MA.
Originally Posted By: Medic Mike
One of my favorites are with the Chevy Volt, Nissan Leaf and Toyota Prius. The fine engineers at these companies thought it was a good idea to run MAJOR high voltage wiring through the A posts (front posts on both driver and passenger where the windshield and windows are connected) then run them along the top of the vehicle to the back. This makes it almost impossible to cut someone out of a car without getting electrocuted. Pat will probably have a better explanation than I.


Probably not, Mike. We had a class on the subject a few years back and I've yet to come upon a Prius wreck. (tonight, maybe?) (Prius drivers seem to be some of the most courteous commuters on the road, dontcha know!) ohboy grin Turn off ignition - Trunk/hatch battery disconnect - Pop a couple of fuses under the hood - wait five minutes - don't cut anything orange! Like you said, they (have) to hide the cables.

The marvelous BMW K 1600 motor. To drain the oil you have to pull one oil plug (normal) but then reach up into the engine through that drain hole and pull a second one! dopeslap

Pat
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#995444 - 08/26/17 02:15 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: TEWKS]
Skywagon Online
Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 1959
Loc: Bellaire Texas
My once upon a time Firebird...Want to change heater hose on 78 bird. It's between the inner and outer fenders.
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RT WET

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#995462 - 08/26/17 01:42 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: lkraus]
doc47 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 3400
Loc: Kafountine, Senegal
Originally Posted By: lkraus
Originally Posted By: Dave McReynolds
There should be another 1/4 covering features I have, but either aren't explained or are glossed over in typical millennial fashion.


I'm pretty sure this omission is intentional. If there is no explanation of how a feature should work, you have no basis for complaint when it does not work as you might expect. I'm convinced Garmin uses this strategy to save on support costs.


Excellent point!
I think the assumption is that people will not be doing their own work on their machines. As things have gotten increasingly complex and computer-based, there is less and less we can do on our own machines and the more we are forced to rely on dealerships. Revenue-generation added to the decreased ability to DIY.

With the increased complexity of machinery, added to demand for lightness and compactness, engine compartments are crammed full in modern vehicles. Something's got to give in terms of where to put things for accessibility.
Long gone are the days when I could work on the 6-cyl. engine of my 1956 Chevy pickup sitting on the fender with my legs inside the engine compartment!
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#995469 - 08/26/17 05:17 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: doc47]
Bill_Walker Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: San Marcos, CA USA
Originally Posted By: doc47
With the increased complexity of machinery, added to demand for lightness and compactness, engine compartments are crammed full in modern vehicles. Something's got to give in terms of where to put things for accessibility.
Long gone are the days when I could work on the 6-cyl. engine of my 1956 Chevy pickup sitting on the fender with my legs inside the engine compartment!


That's for sure! My wife had a 2000 328i that developed a crack in the radiator catch tank. I could see the tank right there, and I could see the cracked edge. I figured I'd just replace it myself. The amount of other parts I had to remove to get that tank loose was ridiculous!
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'15 R1200RT
'12 Kawasaki KLX250S
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'02 Suzuki V-Strom (gone)

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#995470 - 08/26/17 05:19 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Medic Mike]
Bill_Walker Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: San Marcos, CA USA
Originally Posted By: Medic Mike
One of my favorites are with the Chevy Volt, Nissan Leaf and Toyota Prius. The fine engineers at these companies thought it was a good idea to run MAJOR high voltage wiring through the A posts (front posts on both driver and passenger where the windshield and windows are connected) then run them along the top of the vehicle to the back. This makes it almost impossible to cut someone out of a car without getting electrocuted. Pat will probably have a better explanation than I.


Don't those cars have an automatic high voltage battery disconnect when the airbags go off? I've had gas cars that automatically cut off the fuel pump in any impact (never had to use it, but the procedure to reset it was in the owner's manual).
_________________________
"Dry-Town" Crew, San Diego
'15 R1200RT
'12 Kawasaki KLX250S
'04 R1150RT (gone)
'02 Suzuki V-Strom (gone)

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#995471 - 08/26/17 05:41 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
Bud Offline
68% of an RT
Member

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 6766
Loc: Southern Illinois
Have found out that about 40 fasteners have to be removed to change oil in the F 650 GS I bought. rofl
dopeslap dopeslap
Or get a cheap pump and pump the oil out thru the fill (which is under your tank bag!

For your entertainment and enjoyment.

http://www.pointsunknown.com/blog/2009/11/changing-the-oil-on-the-2001-bmw-f650gs/

"The black oil tank, which has fins built in, is now visible. The tank needs to be removed from the bike so it can be tilted, to enable a complete draining." Really??????? dopeslap
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#995474 - 08/26/17 07:39 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
Medic Mike Offline
Member

Registered: 01/03/11
Posts: 327
Loc: Raleigh, NC
Ohh, I forgot to mention the great design of the 1150RT battery location...under the right tupperwear under the fuel tank. I learned that lesson the hard way... One of the first things I did when I bought my 1200RT was ask where the battery was located. If they had said the same place I may have gone with a different bike.

Mike
_________________________
2011 R1200RT Ostra Gray
2006 R1200RT Piedmont Red (totaled)
2004 R1150 RT-P my first love (re-homed)
FDNY-343. I will never forget.

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#995479 - 08/26/17 11:46 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Bud]
tallman Offline
Picture Perfect Humorist
Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 19611
Loc: Tallahassee, Florida
Bud,
people would flinch when given a quote for oil changes on the early version.
Like 1.5 hours.
tongue
_________________________
If my mind wanders, should I follow it?
Tim
Conch Town Krewe
2003 K 1200 GT
1996 R 100 RSL
1980 R 100 RT
1972 R 75
1968 R 50
All now gone...


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#995480 - 08/27/17 12:04 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Medic Mike]
Bill_Walker Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: San Marcos, CA USA
Originally Posted By: Medic Mike
Ohh, I forgot to mention the great design of the 1150RT battery location...under the right tupperwear under the fuel tank. I learned that lesson the hard way... One of the first things I did when I bought my 1200RT was ask where the battery was located. If they had said the same place I may have gone with a different bike.

Mike


Yes, but now you need to remove ALL the tupperware just to change the air filter!
_________________________
"Dry-Town" Crew, San Diego
'15 R1200RT
'12 Kawasaki KLX250S
'04 R1150RT (gone)
'02 Suzuki V-Strom (gone)

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#995485 - 08/27/17 01:43 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Dave McReynolds]
elkroeger Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 3017
Loc: Rochester WA
Originally Posted By: Dave McReynolds
...There is a button on my steering wheel which is not explained in the manual, and nobody I have asked at the dealer know what it is supposed to do. I have pushed it a few times in different circumstances, but it has never done anything....


Somewhere in Florida, somebody's garage door is going up and down for some unknown reason...
_________________________
I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

Eric

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#995486 - 08/27/17 02:04 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
elkroeger Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 3017
Loc: Rochester WA
Buy a tv, dvd, stereo, etc. there's one, or maybe a few buttons on the front. The remote has dozens of buttons. Lose it, or the dog chews the remote, and the whole thing becomes a paperweight.

On a related note: I dunno if any of you shop at goodwill. I go there for treasure hunting. Once in a while you find a nice, vintage Nakamichi tape deck or similar. And of course, the remote is AWOL. Down at the end of the aisle, there's a big box full of homeless remotes. None of which say Nakamichi on them....

Whenever I donate something, I duct tape the remote to the unit. I'm sure I'm not the only person that does that. Why the store policy is to separate the two is beyond me.
_________________________
I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

Eric

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#995489 - 08/27/17 03:10 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: tallman]
Bud Offline
68% of an RT
Member

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 6766
Loc: Southern Illinois
Originally Posted By: tallman
Bud,
people would flinch when given a quote for oil changes on the early version.
Like 1.5 hours.
tongue


facepalm
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Picking up my new ride on the way to FART.

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#995534 - 08/27/17 10:59 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Rider1200RT]
Joe Frickin' Friday Offline

Administrator
Member

Registered: 07/28/00
Posts: 17552
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI (USA)
Originally Posted By: Rider1200RT
How about inaccessible oil filters, spark plugs and air filters??


I seem to recall that the V6 version of the Pontiac Fiero required that the seats be removed in order to change the spark plugs on the forward cylinder bank.

My dad used to own an '84 Corvette, on which you had to remove a frame brace to swap out the battery. As I remember, to change the rearmost spark plug on one side, you had to come from below the car with a ratched fitted with a couple of extensions and a U-joint.

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#995577 - 08/28/17 01:36 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Joe Frickin' Friday]
mrzoom Offline
Member

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 879
Loc: Tulsa, OK
In the 70's and 80's I was a auto tech and I can't tell you all the
hard to repair cars I worked on.
German anything was always a test of skill. Audi alternator..
step one, remove radiator. Oh and the rebuilt alt. was defective so I got to do that twice. cry
When fuel pumps were placed in the gas tanks on Gm's you had to drop
the complete rear suspension then drop the tank. And of course the tank
was always full. 3 hr job.
Toyota put a removable door behind rear seats, time 15 minutes. clap
I bought every universal swivel and locking extension Snap-On made just
to change spark plugs on all the cars I worked on.
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MrZoom
05 RT "Smokey"
The rest are history
If everything is under control your not going fast enough!!!

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#995586 - 08/28/17 03:00 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Joe Frickin' Friday]
Lone_RT_rider Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 5891
Loc: Germantown, WI
Originally Posted By: Joe Frickin' Friday
Originally Posted By: Rider1200RT
How about inaccessible oil filters, spark plugs and air filters??


I seem to recall that the V6 version of the Pontiac Fiero required that the seats be removed in order to change the spark plugs on the forward cylinder bank.


You should have seen what you had to do with a V-8 stuffed into one of those things! jaw facepalm dance

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#995636 - 08/29/17 11:46 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
Oldironken Offline
Member

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 326
Loc: Windsor, CT.
Anyone remember the Plymouths (or maybe it was Chryslers or Dodges) that had left-hand thread lug nuts on one side of the car and right-handed on the other? I was a grease monkey (definitely not a mechanic) at a gas station in the 70's, i snapped off 3 studs trying to change a tire for a customer when the station owner informed me to use right-loosey on that side of the car.
_________________________
2016 1200 RT ( i love this bike)
2004 R 1150 RT - Sold
1926 Ford Model T
1978 Suzuki GS 750E - Sold
1972 Kawasaki 175 ?
1972 Honda CB 350 ?
1970 Suzuki 125 Prospector Enduro - Sold

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#995660 - 08/29/17 01:18 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: elkroeger]
szurszewski Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/06
Posts: 2136
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: elkroeger
Originally Posted By: Dave McReynolds
...There is a button on my steering wheel which is not explained in the manual, and nobody I have asked at the dealer know what it is supposed to do. I have pushed it a few times in different circumstances, but it has never done anything....


Somewhere in Florida, somebody's garage door is going up and down for some unknown reason...


With a pic of the button and the make/model I'm sure we can figure this out!
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#995661 - 08/29/17 01:18 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Oldironken]
Charles Elms Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 550
Loc: Ellicott City, Maryland, USA
Discovered the reverse thread on the side of the highway. Lug nut would not come off. Eventually tried a 'what the hell' reverse and it worked. Never forget that afternoon.
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Charles Elms
2014 V-Strom 650
97 R1100RT - Sold - 110,000 good miles

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#995680 - 08/29/17 03:49 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Charles Elms]
Lone_RT_rider Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 5891
Loc: Germantown, WI
Originally Posted By: Charles Elms
Discovered the reverse thread on the side of the highway. Lug nut would not come off. Eventually tried a 'what the hell' reverse and it worked. Never forget that afternoon.


I had a string of cars (5 total) in High School. 3 of them were Mopar's. I specifically remember the reverse thread. smile lol.... Yeah, at the age of 16 you already feel like there is a lot to learn, then, you can't even get the wheel off the car! dopeslap rofl facepalm

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#995688 - 08/29/17 05:37 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Lone_RT_rider]
lkraus Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 1196
Loc: Central Ohio
Had those on my '69 Valiant. I appreciated Plymouth's foresight in putting my monogram on the end of the wheel stud, but it did not take long to realize the true meaning of that "L".
_________________________
Larry
2006 R1200RT

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#995693 - 08/29/17 07:14 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: szurszewski]
Twinsig Offline
Member

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 875
Loc: Middle Alabama
Originally Posted By: szurszewski
Originally Posted By: elkroeger
Originally Posted By: Dave McReynolds
...There is a button on my steering wheel which is not explained in the manual, and nobody I have asked at the dealer know what it is supposed to do. I have pushed it a few times in different circumstances, but it has never done anything....


Somewhere in Florida, somebody's garage door is going up and down for some unknown reason...


With a pic of the button and the make/model I'm sure we can figure this out!


US Govt "confiscated" the electromagnetic spectrum 400-430 Mhz (trunk radio systems) and began using 380-398 Mhz for radio comms, residential areas near/in range of the AF bases experienced garage door fails (opening homes to widespread theft) 300's is where those garage door remotes function.


Edited by Twinsig (08/29/17 07:15 PM)
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2004 K1200GT


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#995711 - 08/30/17 12:56 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
Hank in WV Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 147
Loc: nrthrn panhandle WV
My '68 Charger RT was that way.
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2000 RT gone
67 & 69 Triumphs
2010 RT

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#995712 - 08/30/17 01:38 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: szurszewski]
Dave McReynolds Offline
Member

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 3857
Loc: Sacramento, CA
Originally Posted By: szurszewski
Originally Posted By: elkroeger
Originally Posted By: Dave McReynolds
...There is a button on my steering wheel which is not explained in the manual, and nobody I have asked at the dealer know what it is supposed to do. I have pushed it a few times in different circumstances, but it has never done anything....


Somewhere in Florida, somebody's garage door is going up and down for some unknown reason...


With a pic of the button and the make/model I'm sure we can figure this out!


At this point, it would sort of be like peeking at a Christmas present. I imagine myself having an epiphany some day when I least expect it, and the mystery will be solved. Just FYI, it is a button marked "OK" next to the button with the phone symbol that you use to answer or hang up the phone. It is a 2015 Ford F-250 diesel. Sometimes the Ford bluetooth will give me a choice among several people to call who have similar names. They don't always seem similar to me, but evidently they do to the truck. I've tried pressing OK when it gets to the right name - no deal. Sometimes the truck is confused by my command and says, "Do you want bluetooth audio?" I've tried pressing OK to that - no deal. Anyway, it's kind of a game to me now.
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Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts. ~Einstein

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#995761 - 08/30/17 09:07 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
lawnchairboy Offline
Snuggie Jesus
Member

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 3471
Loc: Traffic hell, VA
open a 2006 BMW side case and look at the mechanism on the inside. It could be more complicated, but I'm not sure how.


Edited by lawnchairboy (08/30/17 09:07 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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06 R12RT (for sale) 11 R12GS (for sale) 11 KTM990 ADV

The focus is sharp in the city.

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#995767 - 08/30/17 10:05 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Dave McReynolds]
szurszewski Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/06
Posts: 2136
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Dave McReynolds
Originally Posted By: szurszewski
Originally Posted By: elkroeger
Originally Posted By: Dave McReynolds
...There is a button on my steering wheel which is not explained in the manual, and nobody I have asked at the dealer know what it is supposed to do. I have pushed it a few times in different circumstances, but it has never done anything....


Somewhere in Florida, somebody's garage door is going up and down for some unknown reason...


With a pic of the button and the make/model I'm sure we can figure this out!


At this point, it would sort of be like peeking at a Christmas present. I imagine myself having an epiphany some day when I least expect it, and the mystery will be solved. Just FYI, it is a button marked "OK" next to the button with the phone symbol that you use to answer or hang up the phone. It is a 2015 Ford F-250 diesel. Sometimes the Ford bluetooth will give me a choice among several people to call who have similar names. They don't always seem similar to me, but evidently they do to the truck. I've tried pressing OK when it gets to the right name - no deal. Sometimes the truck is confused by my command and says, "Do you want bluetooth audio?" I've tried pressing OK to that - no deal. Anyway, it's kind of a game to me now.



I'm not saying you're one of those guys who *wants* to complain about things, but what I think I hear is that you're annoyed the manual won't tell you what the button is for, but you'll be sort of disappointed when you find out wink


edit: If your OK button does what the OK button did on the late model Fusion, Escape and Focus cars we had at the driving school, I know what it does. BUT I'm not grinch so I won't ruin your somday christmas.


Edited by szurszewski (08/30/17 10:09 PM)
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#995786 - 08/31/17 03:09 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
elkroeger Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 3017
Loc: Rochester WA
One of my favorites is the side opening saddle bags (along with the latch mechanism) on airheads. Everybody kept those closed with a
bungee cord because they would flop open. $200 case, and a $2 bungee.
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#995788 - 08/31/17 03:36 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: elkroeger]
roadscholar Online
Member

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 3005
Loc: N. Fla.
I've always enjoyed the fact that to change the battery on an l100 or 1150RT requires dealing with twenty-two separate fasteners. That's five times the amount of many motorcycles and ten times that of some. It's cruel, there's no other explanation : )
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Bill

I didn't just ride in on a Buell.

MOA 80884
RA

R1200GS Adv, KTM 950 Adv, F800GS, Husky Terra 650

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#995866 - 09/01/17 01:47 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: roadscholar]
Bill_Walker Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: San Marcos, CA USA
Originally Posted By: roadscholar
I've always enjoyed the fact that to change the battery on an l100 or 1150RT requires dealing with twenty-two separate fasteners. That's five times the amount of many motorcycles and ten times that of some. It's cruel, there's no other explanation : )


I don't have the exact count, but it's gotta be something close to that, or maybe more, to change the AIR FILTER on a wethead RT! All the tupperware has to come off.
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'15 R1200RT
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#995986 - 09/02/17 06:42 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Bill_Walker]
mikeR1100R Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 547
Loc: Terryville, CT USA
Clutch slave cylinder inside the bell housing on my 2003 F150. Transmission must be dropped to get at it. To drop the transmission the exhaust pipe must be removed (or just cut off the section that is in the way and clamp/patch it back on when done.
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1998 R1100R
Georgi
2004 Ninja 250
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#995988 - 09/02/17 07:09 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: roadscholar]
Bud Offline
68% of an RT
Member

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 6766
Loc: Southern Illinois
Originally Posted By: roadscholar
I've always enjoyed the fact that to change the battery on an l100 or 1150RT requires dealing with twenty-two separate fasteners. That's five times the amount of many motorcycles and ten times that of some. It's cruel, there's no other explanation : )


It's the German way to make things more complicated than necessary. However, I have a friend who has had a lot of Bimmers, right before the 3 year warranty runs out, he trades. Says it is a lot cheaper in the long run. grin
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#995996 - 09/02/17 10:26 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Bud]
ltljohn Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 3241
Loc: Haycock, PA
Every military aircraft I ever worked on.
I know that most of the engineering is driven by limits of space and weight but some thing just made you scratch your head.
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#996009 - 09/03/17 02:26 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Bud]
roadscholar Online
Member

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 3005
Loc: N. Fla.
Originally Posted By: Bud
Originally Posted By: roadscholar
I've always enjoyed the fact that to change the battery on an l100 or 1150RT requires dealing with twenty-two separate fasteners. That's five times the amount of many motorcycles and ten times that of some. It's cruel, there's no other explanation : )


It's the German way to make things more complicated than necessary. However, I have a friend who has had a lot of Bimmers, right before the 3 year warranty runs out, he trades. Says it is a lot cheaper in the long run. grin


Probably more a sign of the times, I've disassembled and reassembled a few dozen Porsche's back in the day and found them to be logical, intuitive, and fun to work on. But then 2002's and 320i's were pretty simple to work on too.

Over the past couple decades I think manufacturer's have purposely tried to monopolize repair and maintenance on their vehicles by making stuff overly complicated or requiring proprietary equipment. But I also believe BMW was one of the early pioneers of the strategy.
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I didn't just ride in on a Buell.

MOA 80884
RA

R1200GS Adv, KTM 950 Adv, F800GS, Husky Terra 650

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#996014 - 09/03/17 03:20 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
Bud Offline
68% of an RT
Member

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 6766
Loc: Southern Illinois
I'm sure you are right Bill. I know I didn't need a 911 device to work on my oilheads. thumbsup
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#996165 - 09/05/17 12:26 AM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
BeemerBerg Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/03
Posts: 290
Loc: Kanab, Utah
My wife's Can Am Spyder was never meant to be serviced.
Their style designers never consulted with their mechanical engineers
When building these beauties.
To remove one of the hex bolts on the oil filter housing, you must drill a hole in the frame to insert 6mm he'd.
I just spent a half day replacing a fog light bulb (after special ordering the unique size)
I now know every French-Canadian swear word.
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1999 R1100 RT ("Wolfgang") [sold @ 130,000 miles]
2005 R1200RT ("Red Baron") [still going strong @ 115,000 miles]
2010 R1200RT ("Zigfried")

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#996202 - 09/05/17 02:49 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: BeemerBerg]
MikeB60 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 406
Loc: Columbus, GA and Fort Rucker, ...
Originally Posted By: BeemerBerg
My wife's Can Am Spyder was never meant to be serviced.
Their style designers never consulted with their mechanical engineers
When building these beauties.
To remove one of the hex bolts on the oil filter housing, you must drill a hole in the frame to insert 6mm he'd.
I just spent a half day replacing a fog light bulb (after special ordering the unique size)
I now know every French-Canadian swear word.


I refuse to work on my wifes Spyder. Cant get it on the lift table and the Tupperware is a PITA to deal with.

Might try to change the tires when the time comes but we will see.

That one goes to the dealer!
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#996204 - 09/05/17 03:52 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
Bud Offline
68% of an RT
Member

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 6766
Loc: Southern Illinois
Somewhat related. New John Deere equipment is not sold but the owner is prohibited from accessing/modifying software.

https://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/
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#996207 - 09/05/17 05:04 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
John Ranalletta Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/00
Posts: 7800
The list is virtually endless. Pet peeves? Wheel barrels with a x-bar across the struts strategically placed to bark your shins when emptying; sawzall carry case that forces owner to kink the cord such that it breaks near the handle; and the list goes on.

I'm convinced most lawn and garden tools are designed by bright, 23 y/o engineers in Shanghai who live in 2-room hi-rise apartments and who've never seen a blade of grass or had to use what they design.

Some of his stuff is NSFW due to language, but Ave dissects tools...a bit more than unboxing. https://youtu.be/KWubvrbcBRo


Edited by John Ranalletta (09/05/17 05:06 PM)

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#996208 - 09/05/17 05:10 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: John Ranalletta]
Lone_RT_rider Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 5891
Loc: Germantown, WI
Originally Posted By: John Ranalletta
I'm convinced most lawn and garden tools are designed by bright, 23 y/o engineers in Shanghai who live in 2-room hi-rise apartments and who've never seen a blade of grass or had to use what they design.


Nah, the Shanghai design engineers are too high priced in China. Most of that work is done in Donguan, about mid-way between Guangzhou and Shenzhen. smile

Don't ask how I know.... tongue

Shawn

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#996212 - 09/05/17 06:07 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: John Ranalletta]
Living the Dream Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 1291
Loc: Walnut Cove, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: John Ranalletta


I'm convinced most lawn and garden tools are designed by bright, 23 y/o engineers in Shanghai who live in 2-room hi-rise apartments and who've never seen a blade of grass or had to use what they design.




I love simplicity in design:



Not mine but just like it
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Laborare pugnare paratus sum
2014 HP4
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#997006 - 09/15/17 08:16 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: Sonor]
RPG Offline
Member

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 1866
Loc: Detroit Metro Area
I'll weigh in.

My 2007 Chevy Silverado (Classic) has been an incredible, trouble free vehicle for it's 130k miles.

A few years ago, the temperature control backlight went out and I had to order the bulbs online.

Then followed a lengthy process to remove the SOLDERED in lightbulbs on a PCB.

One would think that if using a light source on a PCB, one would either use a removable bulb OR, drum roll.........a set of LED's!

Fixed the lights and of course, last year, the same ones burnt out again. I'm leaving it alone. LOL!
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Upper classes are a nation's past; the middle class is its future.

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#997010 - 09/15/17 08:48 PM Re: Why - the thread of bad engineering ... [Re: RPG]
sardineone Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 986
Loc: Indiana, USA
I'll join in a bit late with my two examples. First the omission of the sight glass on the filter dryer of an automotive AC unit. An exquisitely simple and accurate device to see when your AC is fully charged with refrigerant. My 2000 Toyota Sienna is the latest vehicle I've personally seen that still has one. Why are they left off most cars is most likely to increase the profit per vehicle by maybe 50 cents per vehicle. Second my 86' Moto Guzzi with a spin on oil filter. Only catch is to get at it you have to remove 3 screws,a plastic cover along with 22 Allen bolts and 4 long hex bolts to remove the oil pan. The reason I'm pretty sure is Moto Guzzi hates to retool for anything and they modified the original aluminum oil pan of older models that had just a screen to have the filter as well. dopeslap
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