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Track Day - LeanAngle vs SlideOut? 2008 R1200RT


Dimond

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Track Day - LeanAngle vs SlideOut? 2008 BMW R1200RT

 

I am planning on doing a track day next week on my 2008 BMW R1200 RT. The bike is stock suspension. I have an 'imagined' fear that if I lean the bike too far that I will 'slide out' - even before I scrape peg. My riding position is pretty much upright - body roughly in line with lean angle - I don't hang off the bike - I don't plan on changing my body position (maybe another track day) nor come into corners way too hot. On the street I normally don't enter turns at an excessive speed where I have to brake hard to scrub off speed before I enter the turn - however, every once in a while I misjudge-miscalculate-miswhatever and find that I am into the turn too hot. Then, I lean more but my 'imaginary fear' kicks in and I stop leaning further - even before I scrape any peg - in fact, I rarely ever scrape peg. But, when I do scrape peg I get 'scared' and react in all the ways that I should not - ease off on my lean angle - back off on the throttle - maybe even touch the brakes - ALL the things that I should NOT DO! So, my primary goal at this track day in to learn to scrape peg and NOT PANIC. Once the peg scrapes I don't plan on going further down in the lean angle - but I want to be able to maintain a safe lean angle through the turn - and not do something that makes the bike stand up causing a much wider turn (into the other lane or off the road when on the street). I have Michelin PR4s with plenty of tread - I like them. So, here are my questions for my TRACK DAY:

1. SlideOut - Is there any chance for a SlideOut (assuming that I don't over react at point of peg scrape) if I scrape peg (before peg scrape or after a light scrape)? Has anyone ever had a SlideOut on clean, smooth, dry, warm asphalt (street or track - and circumstances)? Is my SlideOut fear truly imaginary for this trackday?

2. Suspension - Is it best to run my stock ESA suspension on 'damper' at SPORT and 'spring' at ONEUP for this trackday?

3. Bags - I plan to remove my topbox but use BOTH side bags (empty) in the hope that if did SlideOut I would be less likely to have some part of the bike hit me on the way down - is this a sensible approach?

4. Tire Pressure - What are good track day tire pressures? On the street I run 36PSI rear and 32psi front with top box lightly loaded (no side bags) and I weigh 165 pounds. Track Day forecast is for morning temps starting at 75 degrees and going up to 105 degrees.

5. Suggestions - Any other suggestions on how best to accomplish my goal would be appreciated?

 

Thanks!

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lawnchairboy

Your peg feelers should touch down first, pushing the peg back up to your boot.

 

That said, I'd bet that putting an RT down on the track would be at least a 3k day.

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Track days are a blast, ride within your limits and you should be fine. Based on your post I would suggest you explore some professional training in the future. You should not be dragging hard parts, especally on the street. Lots of options I've been through the California Superbike School level 1, Lee Parks total control, and ride smart learned something different in each course.

 

You can low slide (slide out) without dragging hard parts but I'm sure you will be fine let the faster riders by and look through the corner.

 

Sport and two helmets on the ESA

 

I'd remove the bags, they are not going to help if you crash. But I think you will be fine.

 

Can't believe that you are not cupping the front tire on the street at 32PSI but on the track I air down to 32PSI front and rear.

 

Hydrate, don't try to race, ride your own pace, and hold your line so the faster riders can get by. Ride the bike all the way down if you have to, you have more traction than you might believe. Have fun!

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John Ranalletta

A good riding school will emphasize how to corner while keeping the bike as upright as possible, by positioning your upper body - like the Ride Smart program some of the members here teach and many have attended. If you "slide out", you're not cornering correctly.

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On the street I normally don't enter turns at an excessive speed where I have to brake hard to scrub off speed before I enter the turn - however, every once in a while I misjudge-miscalculate-miswhatever and find that I am into the turn too hot. Then, I lean more but my 'imaginary fear' kicks in and I stop leaning further

 

Morning Dimond

 

You can lean these BMW bikes W-A-Y father than most riders think is possible. There are a great number of motorcycle crashes caused each year by riders going onto a curve too hot or on the wrong line then being afraid to lean the bike over farther (or enough). Way-way-WAY more than from sliding the bike out from under them.

 

There is not a good (simple) answer to your slide out/foot peg feeler touching question. In most cases you can gently touch a foot peg feeler & not be any where near sliding the bike out from under you. (but that isn't absolute)

 

It depends on your travel line, the severity of the turn, your riding position, your use of brakes & throttle, the road surface, the road surface lean, & probably most importantly what is on the road surface (like gravel, grass, or leaves, etc)

 

You can lean a modern BMW motorcycle W-A-Y_W-A-Y_W-A-Y over if you do it SMOOTHLY, progressively, & with purpose. If you do it too quickly, raggedly, while braking hard, or incorrectly then you can quickly get into BIG trouble.

 

That is what track day is about-- you need to try different things to see how they work out. You need to get a good instructor to lead you first so you understand what lines to use & how far in to ride. Then to follow you to observe what you are doing wrong & right.

 

If you want to ride correctly & take the fear out of leaning that bike your REALLY need to work on body position on the bike. You don't always need to use the body position but you REALLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND how body position can help you out of a jam in an emergency situation.

 

You also need to work on corner/curve entry lines & proper braking into the turn & proper throttle usage on the exit. (if you use your apex correctly there will be no need for foot peg dragging or a quick lean angle change mid corner)

 

It's usually a poor corner/curve entry line then the need for a sudden change in lean angle mid corner/curve that puts the pucker factor onto riding a motorcycle.

 

Track days are great for practice IF you practice the correct things. They will not do you much good if you keep practicing incorrect riding habits.

 

Track days with a good understanding instructor can be a big help in overcoming cornering fear in a sudden emergency situation.

 

Getting an old dirt bike can also help with learning to slide the bike if necessary & proper braking & leaning on poor road surfaces. Even though some of the cornering/handling are done differently off-road the basic cornering read aheads & loose surface braking can help you out in an on-road emergency situation.

 

I have even brought some of my dirt biking cross-control into my low speed street riding to help low speed very sharp cornering & fast U turns on narrow roads. And more importantly using cross control to allow quickly avoiding sudden appearing road hazards & large pot holes.

 

Once you get your entry lines, entry braking, apex hitting, body position under control you will find that dragging a foot peg is just telling you to pay more attention as you are doing something wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by dirtrider
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Lots of good advice above. I've never done a track day on a bike (yet) but . . . . take off your side panniers. If you do slide out or go down, they are fragile and expensive. Your body will react is such a way that you won't get trapped under the bike.

 

I hope you come away from the event with a new sense confidence of your capabilities and the bike. I highly recommend the SMART program put on by VOLUNTEER riders of the very forum.

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Cylinder head protectors or bars will be better and cheaper than saddlebags if that happened.

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I know you said upright body position and no changes for this event. Never the less, I will say, the whole point of "kiss the mirrors" is keeping the bike more upright, resulting in more control and more margin of reserve. Put the bike on the center stand and practice it a few times, then start when riding. You don't need to go fast, just start doing it regularly, habitually.

 

What I am speaking of:

 

Hands light on the bars, elbows bent, relaxed.

 

SLPR, just as you were taught, but when pressing, move your upper body into the turn, as if kissing the mirrors, and press less.

 

Balls of feet on pegs.

 

Butt back towards the rear of the bike.

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for the riding hints. I have scraped the pegs once, with two up. The result of a blown line. Again, thanks folks. One of these days, I will take advantage of Summit Point.

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  • 1 year later...

FYI Since my original post I have done about 10 track days. These track days have helped immensely in my cornering confidence on the STREET. While there has been some training associated with these track days, most of the LEARNING by me has been by DOING laps (and reading how-to-ride books until I better understood riding fundamentals) and WATCHING HOW OTHERS DO IT WITH EASE without mishaps or apprehension. I have had a couple 'near misses' cornering on the track and quite a few on the street - but the frequency/severity of the near misses has been greatly reduced. I used to wear my front tire out mostly on the center and very little on the sides - but now the front wears equally on sides/center when street riding. I enjoy my motorcycle rides much more since I have started doing track days but the downside is that any safety gains from improved riding are (I think) being offset by the increase in my riding speed. I would recommend that a rider who has any hesitations, misgivings, or apprehension during cornering give consideration to doing 'track days' until they reach a level of performance that meets there street riding needs. IMHO ONE day of track riding time translates to ONE year of street riding time insofar as experience that you can gain. I still do not consider myself a good rider - but certainly much better than I previously was.

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