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#998451 - 10/05/17 08:52 PM Re: Stickcoils-ectomy - Yes or No? [Re: Imgnr]  
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Roger - Assuming theres power, could i simply cut the green /black wires and use them to activate the relay to energize the stick coils? The bottom coil will not be included in this circuit. Seems more straight forward in my admittedly inexperienced brain.

Alan - my bike was hacked to pieces so the absence of the relay or supporting wiring doesnt mean it wasnt there at sime point.


No sparkenzie BMW but learning...
#998453 - 10/05/17 09:09 PM Re: Stickcoils-ectomy - Yes or No? [Re: Alan Sykes]  
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Originally Posted by Alan Sykes
My personal contact, Helmut, in the Archivists' Department of the BMW Motorrad factory in Berlin Spandau might be able to look out the VIN change for when the factory decided to mod the spark plugs with separate load relays. Mind you we're talking thirteen years back....

I'll chase him up. He owes me a round of beers with Rostbratwürste from 2 years ago anyway.

Simple way to establish the change on our bike is of course to lift the lid on the fuse box under the seat and see if there's that extra relay located to the right of the Pink-coloured coding plug.

AL in s.e. Spain


Evening Alan

They all have a relay to the right of the CCP coding plug. That relay isn't the load relief II. The load relief relay II is on the L/H (shifter) side of the CCP coding plug.


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#998454 - 10/05/17 09:12 PM Re: Stickcoils-ectomy - Yes or No? [Re: Imgnr]  
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roger 04 rt Offline
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Originally Posted by Imgnr
Roger - Assuming theres power, could i simply cut the green /black wires and use them to activate the relay to energize the stick coils? The bottom coil will not be included in this circuit. Seems more straight forward in my admittedly inexperienced brain.

Alan - my bike was hacked to pieces so the absence of the relay or supporting wiring doesnt mean it wasnt there at sime point.



Imgnr, Not the way you explained it. You could cut the GREEN wire at each coil connector and use one hot side to energize your relay’s coil. Then you could connect the switched side of your relay through two more wires to connect to the green cut stub at the connector. To me, that’s pretty inelegant but somewhat easier than cutting open the 12-wire green bundle. Your call, just make sure you know what you’re doing.

But before you do any of this did you measure for 12V at each stick coil connector green wire at key on?

Last edited by roger 04 rt; 10/05/17 09:22 PM.
#998457 - 10/05/17 09:16 PM Re: Stickcoils-ectomy - Yes or No? [Re: Imgnr]  
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Originally Posted by Imgnr
Roger - Assuming theres power, could i simply cut the green /black wires and use them to activate the relay to energize the stick coils?



Evening Imgnr

I don't want to get between you & Roger here-- Just posting on the green/black wires so there is no confusion based on my posting above.

If you have green/black wires going to the coils then your bike probably has (or should have) a load relief II relay somewhere.

On bikes that came WITHOUT the 2nd load relief relay (upper coil power relay) the coil power wire should be ALL GREEN not green/black.


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#998459 - 10/05/17 09:27 PM Re: Stickcoils-ectomy - Yes or No? [Re: Imgnr]  
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Evening DR, You’re absolutely right. If he has green/black wires at each coil he has the 2nd load relay. A picture of his electrical box would help.

Also green/black wires should not be confused with the black/green wire on one side.

#998488 - 10/06/17 05:32 AM Re: Stickcoils-ectomy - Yes or No? [Re: Imgnr]  
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You gents are a wealth of knowledge. BMWsporttouring.com must be paying you a crap ton of money! j/k. I confirmed that there is no power to the black/green wires at the stick coil by testing it with a circuit tester with the bike running. I stuck the needle end where the green/black wire is on the connector to the stick coil after disconnecting it.
I also triple verified it by testing the bottom plugs, one at a time, by disconnecting the bottom plugs, and grounding it with alligator clips. Then trying to start the bike. It actually started on one cylinder but proves that the top plugs are not firing.

Roger - I would love to link a pic of the fuse box but Photobucket has decided to not allow me to link pictures unless I upgrade. I noticed a lot of older posts have broken links as well. That is really bad as this (and other forums) area wealth of knowledge. Wish the hosting system will allow people to upload pictures directly.
Anyhow, the pink relay/CCP plug is missing. There's an empty white female plug where it should be. One one of your older posts about CCPs, R1150Rs do not have a CCP plug? "No Coding Plug: R1150R/GS US+ECE". Any reason I should try to replace it? Then the plug directly to the left of it (on the shift side) is completely empty. I believe that's where the secondary relay should be. If I look in, I can see the wiring loom underneath. Everything else looks the same as in the pic that DR uploaded.

This Saturday, I plan on adding a 2nd relay ONLY to the stick coils. I'll leave the bottom plugs alone since they're working. Not elegant but no one sees the wire and again, my bike is a rat rod.

My plans (step-by-step):

First Option: 2nd Relay

- Put the new relay where it should've been in the fuse box.
- Splice a long length of wire to the + headlight wire and connect it to wire on the relay which energizes the + wires.
- Connect a wire between the relay and the + end of the battery. Add a fuse to it. What amp fuse should I use? I'm thinking 15?
- Trace the green/black wire from each of the stick coils up as far as I can and clip them. I will check for continuity in the wires between the stick coil connectors and where I clipped them.
- Add a length of wire between the ends of the green/black wires.
- Splice in the + wire that's energized by the relay to the new length of wire between the green/black wires.
- Tape everything up and start the bike. If everything works, then solder and shrink tube everything.
- IF it doesn't work then on to Second Option.

Second Option: Use the R1100 coil that came with the plugs to power the main plugs.

I think Option 2 is probably better as all four plugs will fire as designed. Some questions for this option:
- The relay already be connected as described above.
- Find a good place for the new coil. I'm thinking the big empty space next the battery where the ABS control unit used to be. Any reason why I shouldn't put it there?
- Clip the connection between the two green/black wires and connect it to the new coil and connect the + wire to the new coil.
- Splice in the other two wires from the new coil to the existing coil. Can the wires handle the extra load? If there are better wires to splice to, please let me know.
- Run the spark plug wires to the two the plugs.
- Start her up.
- IF that still doesn't work, then on to Third Option.

Third Option: Run the plug wires from the R1100 to the coil that powers the bottom plugs.
- Disconnect and remove the relay and wires I added.
- Plug in R1100 plugs to the existing coil.
- Run the plug wires to the two main plugs.

IF that doesn't work, roll the bike to the end of the Santa Monica Pier and push it off.

For the amount of time and money I've put into it, I could've bought a good running r1150 but hey, I rescued a bike from the scrapyard and I can say I really know the bike intimately. Well, not THAT intimately...yet.

I'm going on a short overnight trip in two weeks probably through Palomar in SD county and on to Palm Springs. Hope to have her ready before then. Otherwise I'll ride my trusty 1995 Triumph Thunderbird that I also rebuilt 8 years ago. That one was never wrecked. Just parked for seven years.





Last edited by Imgnr; 10/06/17 06:45 AM.

No sparkenzie BMW but learning...
#998492 - 10/06/17 12:15 PM Re: Stickcoils-ectomy - Yes or No? [Re: Imgnr]  
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Morning Imgnr

Anyhow, the pink relay/CCP plug is missing. There's an empty white female plug where it should be. Any reason I should try to replace it?-- YES, definitely install the correct CCP or make a jumper to take the place of the CCP (the 1150 bikes definitely run better with the correct CCP)


The plug directly to the left of it (on the shift side) is completely empty. I believe that's where the secondary relay should be. If I look in, I can see the wiring loom underneath. Everything else looks the same as in the pic that DR uploaded.-- IS THERE A PLUG THERE???????-- If so then just install a yellow relay. OR, is there JUST an empty space in the fuse box there (no PLUG or socket?)

This Saturday, I plan on adding a 2nd relay ONLY to the stick coils. I'll leave the bottom plugs alone since they're working. --This is how I would do it.

First Option: 2nd Relay

- Put the new relay where it should've been in the fuse box.--This is good

- Splice a long length of wire to the + headlight wire and connect it to wire on the relay which energizes the + wires.--DO NOT DO THIS!!! the headlight goes out during engine cranking so there will be no upper coil power for starting. Tie this circuit (pull-in-coil) into the lower coil green wire

- Connect a wire between the relay and the + end of the battery. Add a fuse to it. What amp fuse should I use? I'm thinking 15?--Fuse to the wire size so 10 amps should be plenty.


- Trace the green/black wire from each of the stick coils up as far as I can and clip them. I will check for continuity in the wires between the stick coil connectors and where I clipped them.--If you have green/black wires to those coils then look again for a 2nd load relief relay. Green wires are usually on no 2nd load relief bikes & green/black wires are used on bikes WITH 2nd load relief.


- Add a length of wire between the ends of the green/black wires.-- Add wire from where to where (you need to tell us more on this one??

- Splice in the + wire that's energized by the relay to the new length of wire between the green/black wires.-- The wires need to go from your added relay's power-out to the upper coil power-in (is this what you have in mind?

- Tape everything up and start the bike. If everything works, then solder and shrink tube everything.
- IF it doesn't work then on to Second Option.

Second Option: Use the R1100 coil that came with the plugs to power the main plugs.-- You could make this work but it isn't the best option & you will STILL need to power this coil with an added power relay.

I think Option 2 is probably better as all four plugs will fire as designed. Some questions for this option:

- The relay already be connected as described above.-- I don't understand this one?

- Find a good place for the new coil. I'm thinking the big empty space next the battery where the ABS control unit used to be. Any reason why I shouldn't put it there?-- As long as the plug wires reach & it isn't a real hot area then it should be good.

- Clip the connection between the two green/black wires and connect it to the new coil and connect the + wire to the new coil.--DO YOU HAVE green/black wires? If so then look for the original 2nd load relief relay or it's socket!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- Splice in the other two wires from the new coil to the existing coil. Can the wires handle the extra load? If there are better wires to splice to, please let me know.--DO NOT do this as that will be too much extra load on the ignition switch. You will need to add a power relay to properly do it this way.



Third Option: Run the plug wires from the R1100 to the coil that powers the bottom plugs.
- Disconnect and remove the relay and wires I added.
- Plug in R1100 plugs to the existing coil.
- Run the plug wires to the two main plugs.
-- This should be a very last resort as the engine won't run as intended. It w-i-l-l work but not properly.


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#998531 - 10/06/17 06:28 PM Re: Stickcoils-ectomy - Yes or No? [Re: Imgnr]  
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Good afternoon DR: As always, thank you!

I will go with Option 2 which is to use the plug ands and coils. Apparently it's from a 2003 R1150. Guess they didn't use sticks in 2003?

- New coil shows only two input wires (see pics). One should be + from the new relay and the second should be the purple one from the Motronic module? Does it matter which wire - black/green or black/violet or should I connect both of them together? The brown wire (I believe it's ground) that goes to the current stick coil doesn't need to be connected?

- Which one is + and which one goes to the Motronic module? Looking at the picture, left and right.

- CCP: If I put a jumper in, what slots should I jump? What is the factory CCP that I should get?

- No Prior 2nd Relay: There is no receptacle for the 2nd relay. I confirmed that the power wire to the stick coil is GREEN ONLY so my bike did NOT come with a load relief as suspected.

- I will splice relay to a green wire as long as I can get power. If not, I'll look for the tail light wire.

- I will use10 amps fuse.

- YES to "Splice in the + wire that's energized by the relay to the new length of wire between the green/black wires.-- The wires need to go from your added relay's power-out to the upper coil power-in (is this what you have in mind?"


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]



Last edited by Imgnr; 10/06/17 06:33 PM.

No sparkenzie BMW but learning...
#998533 - 10/06/17 06:43 PM Re: Stickcoils-ectomy - Yes or No? [Re: Imgnr]  
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Afternoon Imgnr

I will go with Option 2 which is to use the plug ands and coils. Apparently it's from a 2003 R1150. Guess they didn't use sticks in 2003?



- New coil shows only two input wires. One should be + from the new relay and the second should be the purple one from the Motronic module? The brown wire (I believe it's ground) that goes to the current stick coil doesn't need to be connected?'--This should work-- BUT!-- I have a cautionary concern that it might overload the coil driver in the Motronic & possibly fry the Motronic. In the stock form each stick coil has it's own internal driver in the Motronic to handle a single stick coil, you will now be asking that driver to handle a much larger coil. I don't now this for a fact but this is something I would be personally concerned with.

- CCP: If I put a jumper in, what slots should I jump? What is the factory CCP that I should get?-- I don't know the answer off-hand on your model but I will try to find the answer & post it for you. Maybe Roger knows the correct CCP for your Rockster.

- No Prior 2nd Relay: There is no receptacle for the 2nd relay. I confirmed that the power wire to the stick coil is GREEN ONLY so my bike did NOT come with a load relief as suspected.-- OK, now we know that fact so we can move on to making your system work.

- I will splice relay to a green wire as long as I can get power. If not, I'll look for the tail light wire.--Don't use the tail light wire as that will keep the coil powered up with key in parking position.

- I will use10 amps fuse.--This should work just fine.

- YES to "Splice in the + wire that's energized by the relay to the new length of wire between the green/black wires.-- The wires need to go from your added relay's power-out to the upper coil power-in (is this what you have in mind?"--Good

- Splice in the other two wires from the new coil to the existing coil. Can the wires handle the extra load? If there are better wires to splice to, please let me know.--DO NOT do this as that will be too much extra load on the ignition switch. You will need to add a power relay to properly do it this way.


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#998538 - 10/06/17 07:16 PM Re: Stickcoils-ectomy - Yes or No? [Re: Imgnr]  
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I only have a second but this isn’t a great plan as the dwell time on the black green and black violet wires is very short only 1mS. The common coil dwell is about 3mS.

You’d be better off figuring where the 2nd Load Relay socket is.

Last edited by roger 04 rt; 10/06/17 07:17 PM.
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