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#1001089 - 11/17/17 04:56 PM Re: Mod Chips? [Re: Bimmer-Biker]  
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roger 04 rt Offline
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roger 04 rt  Offline
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Naples FL & Cape Cod
Although I posted earlier, given the cheerleading and posting from the UKGSER forum I'd like to add a few comments.

To my knowledge, no one other than me has measured these chips to see what they do. On my R1150, they didn't alter fueling once Closed Loop kicked in and the Long Term Trims were fully adjusted by the Motronic.

The designer of these chips postulated for a long time that there were “Lambda” tables that allowed target lambda to be set in the Motronic. In spite of the fact that there is NO Motronic documentation supporting that contention, and in spite of my measurement of his chips that showed no lambda shift, he clung to the “belief” because other friends told him so.

Eventually I persuaded him to buy an LC-2, install it in his bike and measure AFR (something he should have done at the beginning of his project). He then measured the AFR with his LC-2 and agreed that the tables he was changing didn’t do what he claimed. Here's what he said in the forum:

“Finally, you are right about the close loop it is always 14,7:1”

He then went on to say that Closed Loop adaptation didn’t exist. ...

Although he has the LC-2 which has recording and plotting capability, he has never published a single log of AFR made while riding a single motorcycle. The reason is it would show, as I have shown after trying one of his chips, that his mods of fueling don’t do what he claims.

In addition, he certainly doesn’t understand the interplay of Closed Loop fueling and long term trims. If he did, he wouldn’t change fueling in the Closed Loop area. Doing so eventually erodes changes made in the Open Loop parts of the maps. (Power Commanders with Wideband O2 sensors block changes in the Closed Loop area because of this effect.)

Lastly, he adjusts ignition timing angles without adjusting dwell, shortening the absolute amount of dwell time and weakening the spark. There are other tables too whose functions he changes but has not shown understanding or measured effects.

In terms of unmeasured, cheerleading posts, I'm reminded that over 10,000 BoosterPlugs have been purchased and extolled. Although they do shift input air temperature, no long term effect can be measured. That doesn't seem to stop people from buying them. Worse was a temperature shifter called the IIceair. On R1200s, due to a design error, it didn't even shift temperature at all. In spite of that there were literally hundreds of posts exclaiming its benefits, until the producer exited the business.

#1001090 - 11/17/17 05:26 PM Re: Mod Chips? [Re: Bimmer-Biker]  
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AndyS Offline
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AndyS  Offline
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Somerset, Great Britain.
Well said Roger.
Even if there were SOME truth to his post, the figures would be NOWHERE near what he claims.

#1001118 - 11/18/17 10:37 AM Re: Mod Chips? [Re: Bimmer-Biker]  
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Alan Sykes Offline
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Alan Sykes  Offline
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Almeria, Spain
Roger-the-'04-RT'er has long been an erudite contributor to this issue of re-e-promming a Motronic, particularly with regard to his comments on John The Greek's claims for his 'performance' chip.

But despite arguing the merits and demerits of Closed Loop Fuelling, target Lambda setting and Long Term Trims, etc.....

¿ How does one account for the sometimes dramatic effects on throttle response, better starting, improved smoothness and tractability that are reported by SO many purchasers, after fitting the darned thing into an 1150 boxer ?

Surely it's insulting to suggest that the expenditure of a mere sixty-odd euro induces in a rider some form of self-delusion / willing suspension of disbelief ?

Installing a performance chip is a radical step, beyond the wrenching capability of a large majority of riders: It's complicated, time-consuming and risky; struggling to get at the Motronic unit and then to open it up, can mean damaged fixings, badly pinched finger-ends and an irreparable box, apart from the fact that installing it incorrectly stops the bike dead.

But despite Roger's apparent erudition, and trying to forgive his denigrating comments on this and other forums on John The Greek's ability and motives in marketing his chips, it must be said once and for all, that those of us who've lashed out that princely sum ARE NOT KIDDING OURSELVES as to its effects on our bikes. Why the duck would we lie ?

We are not a John-The-Greek Fan Club. On the contrary, we are simply proving that an eleven-fifty cc boxer-twin motor unit can vastly exceed BMW's predetermined power and flexibility parameters.

AL in s.e. Spain

Last edited by Alan Sykes; 11/18/17 10:38 AM.

This is a list of the people I'd trust with my bike
#1001122 - 11/18/17 11:42 AM Re: Mod Chips? [Re: Bimmer-Biker]  
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terryofperry Offline
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Al in s.e. Spain.

Hopefully you can see why there is skepticism. Do you have before and after data showing double digit percentage increases in horsepower, torque, top speed and fuel economy on your bike?

Thanks and be well.

Terry


Terry

Perry, GA
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