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#1001403 - 11/22/17 08:42 PM Re: Mod Chips? [Re: Bimmer-Biker]  
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roger 04 rt Offline
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roger 04 rt  Offline
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Bert,
The other thing you should consider is an LC-2 and R1200 Injector match up. The LC-2 gives you a wider range of AFRs, even allowing you to switch between two and the injectors add fuel that the LC-2 will hold in place. Here is someone who has done both and loves the results: http://advrider.com/index.php?threa...ed-for-bmw.749080/page-17#post-22147490.

I don't often recommend the LC-2 but since you have a bit of wiring with the AF-XIED, there's only about the same amount with an LC-2. There is a bit of programming though.

This gives you a solution with known fuel enhancement and the ability to measure what's going on.
Roger

#1001421 - 11/23/17 03:45 AM Re: Mod Chips? [Re: Bimmer-Biker]  
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Bert Remington Offline
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Bert Remington  Offline
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Descanso CA
Roger -- thank you for the flattering response but I'm a rear-wheel-on-the-road measurement guy rather than a what-is-the-engine-doing measurement guy. I want to keep my MSD ignition modifications and my AF-XIED fuel-air modifications and my John's-chip whatever modifications separate. Sooo...no LC-2. But if you have a candidate R1100 with an LC-2 I will gladly loan you my John's-chip.

The MSD is a lark that I'm familiar with. WRT motorcycles I started early putting an SAENG CDI on my Honda CB750 (worked well except for timing errors caused by wear on the magnet rotor). I was building my own CDI for my Norton Commando but smartened up (this happens rarely even now) and sold the motorcycle (the buyer asked if there was anything he should do and I told him to drive looking for bags of gold on the road).

MSD ignition measurements: seat-of-the-pants.

AF-XIED fuel-air measurements: seat-of-the-pants.

John's-chip (if I do this next summer): remove MSD and/or AF-XIED; drive for two week so ECU long-term trim stabilizes; get rear wheel measurements at dynamometer shop (the Barona drag motorcycle guys will tell me where a good one is in San Diego); publish in this forum.

WRT O2 sensor, I will always retain this for all configurations. I will not use the CO2 potentiometer. I like feedback control systems, even ones as apparently crude as BMW's (abysmal A-to-D conversion for O2 sensor). BTW my early K100 had, as I'm sure you know, a vane MAF and I was always happy with its driveability through all conditions including walking it uphill in a drainage ditch when there was snow (country life is more appealing when you are young).

WRT Posi-Taps, I researched them and was not convinced so for this application I'm sticking with weather-protected crimp-style connectors. Yeah I know they are crude but I make them work reliably.


2000 BMW R1100RT
2016 Royal Enfield Classic 500
#1003748 - 01/17/18 12:03 AM Re: Mod Chips? [Re: Bert Remington]  
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Stoneman Offline
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Stoneman  Offline
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Indianapolis
John Gemi is on to something. It would be great if someone knowledgeable would partner with him to fine tune the chip. The stock engine leaves much room for performance improvement and it would be nice to achieve that improvement at the reasonable cost of his chip.


Rich Stone
Indianapolis
2004 BMW R1150RT Biarritz Blue
1978 BMW R100RS Cafe
All I want is a little more than I'll ever get.
#1003763 - 01/17/18 02:53 AM Re: Mod Chips? [Re: Bimmer-Biker]  
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Lowndes Offline
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Lowndes  Offline
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Roswell, GA
"¿ From where did you source your matched later-model injectors ? I've read on other forums about their improved spray-pattern."

Alan,

As an option for you on the injectors, Injector Rehab in New Jersey: Injector-Rehab

Keith Gibbons, the owner, has new (and refurbed) Bosch EV-14 injectors with the adapters and seals in a kit for $165 USD. It may be easier for you in the EU to get the kit from Tills considering shipping and duties from the US.

There is a very noticeable difference in the spray patterns, squirt vs mist.

I got a set from I-R a year ago and am very pleased with the components and service.


Old Fart Newbie
#1003786 - 01/17/18 02:30 PM Re: Mod Chips? [Re: Bimmer-Biker]  
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Alan Sykes Offline
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Alan Sykes  Offline
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Almeria, Spain
Thanks Lowndes, yes it was tills.de who put me on to a supplier in Dortmund who sold the later broad-pattern sprayers at a price noticeable lower than simply ordering from the Greedy Berlin Pig, and thus I assume cheaper - because of reduced shipping costs - than ordering from the prestigious I-R people in the USA.

And Stoneman, you're right; "John Gemi is on to something". His chips transform the boxer motor's performance. Not by a gob-smacking amount, but enough to make the investment very well worth-while to achieve better response and fuel economy.

I think by now he's clued-up enough in his epromming techniques to be as knowledgeable about what he's trying to achieve as anybody else whose comments I've read in these and other forum pages.

Incidentally, i enjoyed my seven week Christmas holiday in the north-western UK - 28 days of rain in the whole month of December. But I did manage an afternoon dodging the ice and salt to have a spin out on the Rockster with its modded footpegs and lifted-up Roadster handlebar. But don't let anybody tell you that swapping out the Rockster footpegs kit for a set from a GS ( much lower and less scrinching on the knees ) is a doddle.

Brother, it ain't. It took a whole day in the motor engineers' workshop in sub-zero temps with the aid of a lathe, a reamer and other heavy hardware, plus the co-operation of two experienced mechanics, to variously mod things like the too-short braided brake lines, the side-stand loop to make it accessible again to the heel of a boot when coming to a stand-still, the piston rod for the rear brake, the gearshift link to the splined lever connection to the gearbox, etc., etc.

Not a job for the average afternoon wrencher, believe me...It may be easy on a Roadster, where the footpegs are less jacked-up, but certainly not on the Rockster.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

AL - now back in the warm sunshine of south-eastern Spain on the sandy Med coast.

Last edited by Alan Sykes; 01/17/18 02:43 PM. Reason: typos, as usual...

This is a list of the people I'd trust with my bike
#1003814 - 01/17/18 06:53 PM Re: Mod Chips? [Re: Stoneman]  
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roger 04 rt Offline
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roger 04 rt  Offline
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Originally Posted by Stoneman
John Gemi is on to something. It would be great if someone knowledgeable would partner with him to fine tune the chip. The stock engine leaves much room for performance improvement and it would be nice to achieve that improvement at the reasonable cost of his chip.



Actually the tuning/balance of the stock chip is quite good. If you use an LC-2 or AF-XIED to add 6-8% to the fueling, the bike is transformed by the Motronic itself, no need for brain surgery on the ECU.

I have asked John time and again to do a tuning chip that is only ignition timing advance above half throttle, coupled with an XIED. His target market seems to be the low cost segment, so he has not shown an interest since the cost would entail the chip plus an AF-XIED. The combination I’ve suggested would give the great running of a Lambda-shifted bike with the possibility of a bit more power on the top end.

#1003963 - 01/20/18 08:20 PM Re: Mod Chips? [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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Stoneman Offline
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Stoneman  Offline
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Indianapolis




Originally Posted by roger 04 rt


Actually the tuning/balance of the stock chip is quite good. If you use an LC-2 or AF-XIED to add 6-8% to the fueling, the bike is transformed by the Motronic itself, no need for brain surgery on the ECU.

I have asked John time and again to do a tuning chip that is only ignition timing advance above half throttle, coupled with an XIED. His target market seems to be the low cost segment, so he has not shown an interest since the cost would entail the chip plus an AF-XIED. The combination I’ve suggested would give the great running of a Lambda-shifted bike with the possibility of a bit more power on the top end.




This helps me understand that it is not so much a chip issue. Am I correct in thinking It is the XIED that helps with the surging and smooths out the power?

Is making a chip to do what you suggest hard to do? If John wont do it who else can?


Rich Stone
Indianapolis
2004 BMW R1150RT Biarritz Blue
1978 BMW R100RS Cafe
All I want is a little more than I'll ever get.
#1003967 - 01/20/18 10:12 PM Re: Mod Chips? [Re: Stoneman]  
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JamesW Offline
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Florence, Oregon
Hi Rich, Not to barge in on Roger but all you need is the AF-XIED or a wideband sensor with LC-2 controller which provides the interface to the ECU and all will be well. I've been running an Innovate Motorsports LC-2 for at least 5 years on my '04 R1150RT (sold) and on my '93 R1100RSL and all is nothing short of perfect. Roger is the expert when it comes to fueling issues on these oilhead motorcycles. There is no need to modify the Motronic. I like the LC-2 because it has data log capabilities and over time I have sent Roger via e-mail data log info which he has used to help me troubleshoot my motorcycles. Last time I checked the LC-2 is available from Amazon which is where I obtained my units. I don't mean to imply there is anything wrong with an AF-XIED and it does use your existing narrow band O2 sensor which could be a plus.


James
'93 R1100RSL / '10 FJR1300A
#1004010 - 01/21/18 08:11 PM Re: Mod Chips? [Re: JamesW]  
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Stoneman Offline
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Stoneman  Offline
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Indianapolis
Thanks James. I appreciate your, Roger's and other's willingness to share their experiences and knowledge. I will look into the LC-2. If the two different systems are comparable in performance, which it sounds like they are, I would think about the easiest to install since I may be doing it myself. I'm not a wrench but can follow instructions or a Youtube video.


Rich Stone
Indianapolis
2004 BMW R1150RT Biarritz Blue
1978 BMW R100RS Cafe
All I want is a little more than I'll ever get.
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