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#1002111 - 12/08/17 03:51 PM Re: R1150r rockster spline/gearbox integrity [Re: Mark C]  
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dirtrider Offline
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Morning Mark C

Concluding offset pins for a repair should never be anyone's problem, but the manufacturer. --True, but BMW isn't the only motor company that has needed to address input shaft alignment issues (look at Chrysler back in the 60's). If the trans to engine mating area is designed properly then built to those designs it should not ever need any sort of alignment check or altering. But that is story book fantasies, real life tends to not always work out as planned.

Like I said, what does BMW call the plastic transmission cover used on Hexheads? --It's called a clutch cover.


I call it an inspection cover, so at least it is possible to see the fit after installation.--I guess it could be called anything that you want but I seriously question what can be inspected through that cover (alignment wise). I guess, eventually it could be used to check for spline wear but it is easier to just do that through the starter hole & there seems to be little need for that on the 1200 bikes.


To the best of my knowledge (LIMITED) BMW has never addressed or accepted any responsibility (financial) as a major drive train problem.
--AFSIK BMW has addressed spline wear on some bikes for some customers. I do (personally) know (2) 1150 riders that had BMW repair their bikes for a spline issue under a good-will or whatever you want to call it. This usually depends on the dealer involvement, owner (ie original owner), etc. __BUT! even though the bikes were repaired by BMW the root failure issue wasn't addressed so both bikes re-failed at a later time.

But you are correct (AFAIK) that BMW hasn't come right out & said they have spline failure problems. But they haven't admitted much of anything on ANY re-occurring failures unless forced to.

From what I've heard, BMW denies claims as owner abuse for a warranty request?--Possible, but this is where the dealer steps in & works with BMW to remedy the problem for the customer.

I may be wrong but auto manufacturers used bell housings way back and BMW decided to combine it with the transmission.
Probably a cost only consideration. So much for over engineering?
-- There is no real (standalone) bell housing as that is not needed (the trans front cover is the combination front cover & clutch (bell) housing. Again we have the length issue to deal with. Make the clutch housing a separate part then either the bike gets longer, the engine shorter, or rear swing arm shorter (or all of the above). LOTS of current automobiles & light trucks don't use a stand alone clutch housing (bell housing) & there doesn't seem to be many issues in that area. About the ONLY real advantage to using a standalone clutch (bell) housing is it allows different materials to be used for the housing & the transmission (most are all the same alloy now).


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#1002139 - 12/09/17 07:32 PM Re: R1150r rockster spline/gearbox integrity [Re: dirtrider]  
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Cap Offline
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Fort Collins, CO
Originally Posted by Mark C
To the best of my knowledge (LIMITED) BMW has never addressed or accepted any responsibility (financial) as a major drive train problem


I had a 2001 R1150GS that I bought new from a dealer in Denver. And after about 2 years, I noticed oil seeping from a spot on the seam between the engine and the transmission. I took it to my local BMW dealer in Fort Collins, not the one from which I bought the bike but the one that had done all the service to that point. And I asked, "what is that?"

With that prompting, they took the whole bike apart, noted an almost stripped trans input shaft, and found the source of a small oil leak (they were vague, but I think it was a small crack in the engine block). They installed a new transmission and clutch, and repaired the crack (weld?), and refreshed my factory warranty for an additional year. I was somewhat impressed, given that I was expecting that I would need to argue with them about it. No charge.

So, this is a sample of 1, but at least in my case, BMW backed their product.

Cap

#1002144 - 12/09/17 08:22 PM Re: R1150r rockster spline/gearbox integrity [Re: eliastfk93]  
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The oil leak was probably from the rear engine crankshaft seal, and the crankshaft rear main bearing was probably worn from the alignment-induced spline side load. It comes really down to where was the exact leak source. Was that why they were vague about the leakage?

#1002149 - 12/09/17 10:22 PM Re: R1150r rockster spline/gearbox integrity [Re: eliastfk93]  
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Craig G. Offline
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Does anyone know, first hand, of a bike that failed a spline relatively early in life (~30k miles), was repaired and did not have another failure... period? If so do you know what the repair consisted of?

#1002152 - 12/09/17 11:26 PM Re: R1150r rockster spline/gearbox integrity [Re: Craig G.]  
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dirtrider Offline
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Originally Posted by Craig G.
Does anyone know, first hand, of a bike that failed a spline relatively early in life (~30k miles), was repaired and did not have another failure... period? If so do you know what the repair consisted of?


Evening Craig G

I can't give you the period but I did a spline repair on a 28,xxx 1150RT around 2008 that didn't have another spline failure while the owner still owned it. At around 62k he sold it (traded it) then lost track of it.

All I did on that bike was install a new input shaft, new clutch disk, new slave cylinder, & some seals, then use offset dowels to align the trans front cover to the crankshaft.

I have done a few over the years but they get sold & passed on to new owners so keeping track of them is impossible.


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#1002159 - 12/10/17 11:01 AM Re: R1150r rockster spline/gearbox integrity [Re: Craig G.]  
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Jim Moore Offline
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I installed a known-good used transmission an R1100S. It fixed the problem. You can find them for a few hundred bucks on eBay. Make sure you get some close-ups of the splines.


Jim Moore Jax, FL '99 R1100S '02 R1150GS
#1002186 - 12/10/17 07:37 PM Re: R1150r rockster spline/gearbox integrity [Re: nrp]  
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Cap Offline
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Originally Posted by nrp
The oil leak was probably from the rear engine crankshaft seal, and the crankshaft rear main bearing was probably worn from the alignment-induced spline side load. It comes really down to where was the exact leak source. Was that why they were vague about the leakage?


I really don't know where the oil was leaking... I asked the dealer for an explanation, and they confirmed that it was engine oil. My recollection is hazy, but I think they mentioned a crack. I found that somewhat alarming, especially when they would not explain the way they fixed it, other that to assure me that they were confident that they had fixed it permanently. Given that they had just placed a new transmission and clutch on the bike, at no charge, I was reluctant to press the issue.

You might be right that the oil was leaking from the rear main seal. Can those be replaced without dismantling the engine? Maybe it was the seal that was cracked. In any case, the bike ran fine (or at least as well as it ever had, which for a 2001 1150 meant that it surged badly and burned a quart of oil every 1000 miles). I rode it long enough to verify that it seemed OK, then sold it with a complete history and the remaining warranty. Never heard a complaint from the next owner.

As an aside, my 2004 R1150RT does not burn oil, and does not surge as long as both stick coils are working.

Cap

#1002196 - 12/11/17 02:29 AM Re: R1150r rockster spline/gearbox integrity [Re: eliastfk93]  
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nrp Offline
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It would be hard to evaluate the radial alignment if a freshly assembled (with new parts) engine-transmission system. The only possibility might be if the tangential clearance as monitored on the clutch disk outside diameter could be verified for clearance. With new parts (shaft and clutch disk hub) I'd guess the tangential backlash at the OD would be maybe 1/32 inch. Actually, anyone checking a rebuild situation should probably look at this on reassembly through the starter port. If there is no backlash, it suggests that there is no spline tooth clearance and that it is all used up by assembly alignment error.and binding

The real number is that the radial misalignment according to some DIN (German Industrial Norms) specs I recall seeing is about .003 inch max. For a spline of this size, speed, and torque environment that seems more than a little too much.

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