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Introduction and O2 Question


roger 04 rt

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Thanks a lot for all these tips. It saves us a lot of hassle.

 

By the way, I never resolved the pinging problem on my bike. Now, i use the low octane CCP so it is mostly gone. During a trip, i met 3 other guys which have the same problem with their 1150s They use octane booster when they are fueling their bikes.

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Forget pulling the spark plugs, don't need to. The free air cal was the one thing I didn't like about the LC-1. I just hate removing the exhaust system and then the O2 sensor. Thanks so much for this tip. :thumbsup:

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Thanks a lot for all these tips. It saves us a lot of hassle.

 

By the way, I never resolved the pinging problem on my bike. Now, i use the low octane CCP so it is mostly gone. During a trip, i met 3 other guys which have the same problem with their 1150s They use octane booster when they are fueling their bikes.

 

I fixed the occasional pinging on my 1150RT with earplugs.

 

Andy

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Hi Andy

 

With pink CCP, the pinging was so loud my wife was asking me what was this noise during acceleration at 80 mph. She was afraid we couldn't return at home with the bike. It wasn't really safe for the motor and I don't want to clean the carbon in the heads and on top of the pistons.

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I ran into an interesting problem with my Innovate Motorsports LC-1. My +12 volt lead, which is tapped from the lambda sensor heater became intermittent because I used a cheap fork-style tap. I fixed the problem but notice that the 10 programmed values for voltage, lambda and sampling time had all been reset to default values due to the intermittent. I'd been riding for a week that way and couldn't put my finger on it but knew something was wrong. Fixed the tap and reprogrammed the values.

 

Then I notified that the unit was acting strangely, outputting more voltage than I programmed. I knew from past experience that to fix it I would need to perform a Free-Air Calibration which requires removal of the O2 sensor from the exhaust. That's not quick and can risk damaging the O2 sensor.

 

The Free-Air calibration did not completely restore my LC-1 to perfect operation after my +12V tap failed. After some internet searching I found a more comprehensive procedure that worked. Below is the full amended process. In addition to a vacuum cleaner I build a switch with spade terminals to use in place of the fuel pump relay. Since my LC-1 is powered on the fuel pump circuit (in place of the stock O2 sensor heater) I needed to be able to switch that circuit on without running the bike.

 

1. Open throttle fully and lock it at WOT

2. Connect a vacuum cleaner to the exhaust and switch in on

3. Put the transmission in gear rock the engine with the rear wheel until one cylinder is near the top of the exhaust stroke and both intake and exhaust valves are open. At this point you have fresh air flowing through the exhaust.

 

4. Replace the fuel pump relay with a switch.

5. Connect your PC to the LC-1 and launch LM Programmer

6. Turn the fuel pump switch on. Wait for the LC-1 to warm up (red led ON)

7. In LM Programmer press the Reset Calibration function. This clears all heater, free air and other calibration values. There is no confirmation dialog. Close LM programmer.

 

8. Turn the fuel pump switch off for 30 seconds.

9. Turn the fuel pump switch on

A) the Red LED flashes slowly while the unit warms up

B) next the Red LED flashes quickly for about 20 seconds, it is performing a Heater Cal

C) next the Red LED turns off for 3 seconds, it is performing a free-air Cal

D) next the Res LED turns on fully, signaling that all is well and the LC-1 is fully reset and calibrated

 

At this point you're done. The whole process took 15 minutes, start to finish.

-remove the vacuum

-replace the fuel pump relay

-relax the throttle

-put the transmission in neutral

 

At test ride confirmed good as new performance.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Does anybody tried Free air o2 calibration with a vacuum cleaner as Roger mentioned earlier ?

 

I tried it yesterday and it didn't work for me. Logworks and AFR meter on my bike show me strange results since I've done it.

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  • 2 months later...

There are always questions popping up about when the R1150 runs in Closed Loop and when it's in Open Loop. Although the research in this thread has shown that the distinction isn't critical, because the Motronic and BMSK use a Mixture Adaptation strategy to use Closed Loop fueling data to correct Open Loop errors, it is important to know when considering a fueling enhancement strategy (LC-2 vs PCV vs ... ). For example, if you boost fuel pressure, Closed Loop "learning" "sees" the extra fuel and removes the benefit; or if you change the Motronic "chip" for one with a "richer" map, Closed Loop learning also removes the extra fuel. And for some of us, it's just interesting to know.

 

During the course of this Wideband O2 project many riders have sent GS-911 data, from a mix of R1150s--GSs & RTs, single and dual spark. Among other things the data includes information on TPS, RPM and Closed/Open Loop. That data has been used to create an accurate map of when the R1150 is in Closed and Open Loop. (LC-1 data taken from an R1100 shows that it works much the same as the R1150.)

 

Summary

If you don't want to read any further, the simple answer is that once an R1150 is warmed-up, the Motronic (and BMSK for R1200) runs Closed Loop most of the time, except when you're making large changes to the throttle. In fact, data presented below shows that the Motronic runs in Closed Loop to 50% throttle and to 5600 RPM (and likely higher), which is up to 60-70% power.

 

Just how much of the time is the bike in Closed Loop? The data below, from 4 R1150GS riders and 1 R1150RT shows:

 

--70% of riding was in Closed Loop

--99% of all the data points taken were within the Closed Loop area (<47 degrees throttle, <5600 RPM)

--Surprisingly, the R1150 is not in Closed Loop for light loads, coinciding with the most surge-prone area of riding.

 

So if your objective is to run with richer mixtures, you have to richen Closed Loop fueling. This can be done with a Wideband O2 System like the Innovate LC-2 or a Wideband emulator like the Nightrider AF-XIED.

 

The other thing to know, is that the Motronic actively applies what it learns in Closed Loop to the entire fueling map through a process of Mixture Adaptation, which I've documented earlier in this thread.

 

Detailed Analysis

Recently there have been some discussions regarding which parts of the R1150 fuel map have Closed Loop operations and which don't. As mentioned above, several riders have sent data from their GS-911s and it occured to me that this data could be put together into one large file and analyzed.

 

The Motronic reports (and the GS-911 logs) a new set of operating data roughly twice per second. Each data point has the following information, including TPS angle, RPM and whether the Motronic is in Closed or Open Loop. This can be seen in the next chart.

 

gs911data.jpg

 

Using that data, the plot below has a point for each TPS/RPM pair from each line of the GS-911 log for 5 R1150GS/RT riders, both Single and Dual spark bikes. The points were then color-coded depending on the state of the Closed/Open Loop indicator.

 

On this chart the Blue points are Closed Loop and the Yellow Points are Open Loop. This let's you see several things:

 

--The maximum TPS with a Closed Loop point--47 degrees

--The maximum RPM with a Closed Loop point--5600 RPM (may not be the maximum)

--That there are Open Loop data points within the Closed Loop boundaries.

--70% of all points are Closed Loop

--99% of all points are within the Closed Loop area

 

R1150ClosedLoop1.jpg

 

In the next chart, I've zoomed in on the Closed Loop area up to 36 degrees throttle and up to 5600 RPM (there was only one point greater than 36 degrees throttle). All the points, Closed and Open Loop are Blue on this chart. This is the area where most riders do almost all of their riding according to this data. The reason for the red line will be clear in a moment.

 

R1150ClosedLoop3.jpg

 

For this last chart the Open Loop data points have been removed so that only the Closed Loop data points are plotted.

 

This shows a very surprising result: although the Motronic is in Closed Loop at idle and up to about 1400 RPM, the Motronic is not in Closed Loop in much of the small-throttle-angle area of the map. What you can see is a diagonal line beyond which the Motronic stays Open Loop.

 

Most of us believed that the Motronic was Closed Loop only at small throttle angles. This chart clearly shows that it is Open Loop for light loads. My estimate looking at load charts is that this area corresponds to <20% engine load. (For comparison, the engine load at idle is about 15%.)

 

R1150ClosedLoop4.jpg

 

Past measurements of AFR in this area of the map have shown it to be a leaner area than Closed Loop with an AFR of about 15.2:1. In this area, if you twitch the throttle up a bit, the Motronic enriches the mixture; and if you twitch it closed, the Motronic leans-off the mixture. This means that on top of a basic leaness, the ECU also amplifies any throttle movements by going from leaner to richer to leaner--this would feel a bit "surgy".

 

Why did BMW make this area Open Loop on the Motronic (it is Closed Loop on the R1200's BMSK)? Who knows. A guess would be that this was an area where it was fueled as a "deceleration" area and that the Lean AFR was to save fuel or maybe reduce exhaust popping.

 

So that's the picture for Motronic Closed/Open Loop.

RB

 

 

 

 

 

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Roger,

Great stuff, as usual. :thumbsup:

 

That 1150 will really come alive with an AFXIED Mike, especially in the Dillard area next Spring.

 

Be well.

 

Terry

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Roger,

Great stuff, as usual. :thumbsup:

 

That 1150 will really come alive with an AFXIED Mike, especially in the Dillard area next Spring.

 

Be well.

 

Terry

 

It worked like a charm in Maggie Valley. :thumbsup:

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  • 1 month later...

Although this is a forum for Oilheads, many are following the Wideband O2 project so I'm adding this report here as well as posting it in the Wethead section.

RB

 

Cold start data log for stock sent via email

 

 

... [then later] AF-XIED units received.

 

George's bike is an R1200GS LC (W) and he has offered to ride with the AF-XIEDs connected and logging data to his GS-911 Wifi.

 

It took me a while to get to analyzing the GS-911 information but I?ve gotten through it. The bottom line is that the AF-XIED is performing as it should. The key points:

 

1) The AF-XIED output is driving the BMSK correctly. The Lambda Sensor voltages are proper (200-800 mV).

2) The distribution of voltages measured by the BMSK is also correct?very nicely distributed between 200 and 800 mV.

3) The amount of time spent Closed Loop is high (newer model) and it is also correct.

4) There are no sensors that are displaying unexpected values.

 

There was only one real discovery, that is that the average Lambda Sensor Voltage while the bike was in Closed Loop operation was higher than I?m used to seeing?about 650 mV with the unit set on 8. (Can you compare the settings to the photo I sent?) This average voltage measured isn?t a function of the AF-XIED. It is based on The amount of time that the BMSK is reporting voltages near 800 mV versus the amount of time at 200 mV. What it means is that the bias point is perhaps 0.5-1% higher than the setting selected, indicating that the mixture is slightly richer than target (0.1-0.2 AFR). Because everything else is operating as it should, the higher average voltage isn?t an issue at all, more a curiosity to me.

 

The GS-911 on the R1200GSW reports different types of realtime values compared to the R1200GS. I?m working with Hexcode to understand why some realtime values that I?m used to seeing are missing. For example, if it reported the Lambda Control Factors (short term trims) we?d have a little more insight. It does report two injection pulse lengths for the GSW, compared to a one (base time) for the GS. Looking at the two pulse times on the GSW data, it looks correct and the differences side-to-side are small and reasonable.

 

Next steps for you would be to ride for a couple tanks of gas on setting 8, then a couple on setting 9, then a couple of settings 7 and 6. I realize this isn?t the best time of the year for this type of riding so you can keep the beta units as long as you feel like trying them.

 

Although I see no reason why the GSW won't benefit, the real question is this: now that we know the AF-XIEDs are doing what they are supposed to do, how does the R1200GSW respond to the fuel that gets added. In the case of many BMW motorcycles, there is a significant improvement in smoothness, roll-on torque, etc. Setting 6, 7, or 8 usually transforms the feeling of the ride. We will need to hear from several riders of GSWs to gain that insight.

Edited by Boffin
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I've been working on fueling with the owner of an R1200GS LC. He also has a GS-911 Wifi so is able to log realtime values.

 

The GS LC uses a fly-by-wire throttle, which means that you turn the throttle control on the right handle bar and the computer controls how far to open the TB butterfly. Below is a chart showing how far the BMSK opens the throttle on the vertical axis, based on where the rider positions the throttle control on the horizontal axis. This was an easy ride so the data only shows up to about 40% throttle.

 

There are several interesting things you can see:

 

--The sensitivity of the throttle is lower at small throttle angles, which should make the throttle easier to control.

 

--At idle, closed throttle, the computer opens the throttle up to 15% and varies it based on conditions.

 

--At small throttle settings at the handlebar, there are a wide range of possible throttle valve openings. How the throttle at 10% and the BMSK may use values of throttle opening between 4 and 7% (or degrees, not sure yet which units it uses)

 

I think this chart makes it easy to see that this bike's power control has new dimensions compared to R1150s and R1200s.

 

R1200GSLCThrotte.jpg

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Interesting info Roger. Have you yourself ridden one of the new water cooled machines?

 

I did test ride a 2013 R1200GS. I really liked the bike but found the throttle twitchy compared to my 04 RT running at lambda=0.94, which now has a very smooth throttle. That test ride led my to conclude that I wouldn't move to a Wethead until there was a GS-911 for it, which would allow me to experiment with mixture.

 

BTW, ride mode on the GS LC for the throttle data above was DYNAMIC.

Edited by roger 04 rt
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  • 3 months later...

Another R1150 report.

 

I installed an AF-XIED unit on my 2004 R1150RT-P. After an initial issue with grounding that Roger helped my find, the bike has run well. The unit is set on "7" and I'm near the end of the second tank of fuel.

 

One thing I had read about but was a bit skeptical as there was a certain amount of "butt dyno" to it, was the report that the bike can be ridden one gear higher than before. I have been surprised by the number of times I've looked down and found that indeed I was a gear higher than "usual" -- truly completely unaware that I was up a gear. I normally ride at ~4K rpm, but I've also noted the bike is much more pleasant to ride when the rpm's are down around 3K (and even down into the mid-2's).

 

This weekend my wife and I rode motorcycle safety escort for the Wash, DC version of the Avon Breast Cancer Walk. I took the RT-P instead of the RTW because I felt the RT-P was built/geared exactly for this sort of duty. Totally flawless operation in all conditions -- cold morning start to endless hot idling in 80F temps to zipping around DC traffic between assignments.

 

A quite positive initial impression. Now looking at a pair of these for the wife's '12 RT, which is rather cold-blooded and also "jetted" lean during normal operation.

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  • 2 months later...
Thanks for the added table. :)

 

You just keep doing all the good work on these Oilheads.... and I'll help load pictures. :grin:

 

Interesting the temp range for 5 bars on the RID vs 4 or 6. No wonder mine always sits right at 5.

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roger 04 rt
Thanks for the added table. :)

 

You just keep doing all the good work on these Oilheads.... and I'll help load pictures. :grin:

 

Interesting the temp range for 5 bars on the RID vs 4 or 6. No wonder mine always sits right at 5.

 

There were 24 temps to set and resistances to measure so I wasn't thinking much while I was recording data. I went back and confirmed several of the measurements and the table is what I got, even a second time.

 

Because I was using a 10K pot it was hard to set it to +/-5 ohms for the hot temperatures but it was stable once I had it set.

 

Perhaps the RID is built that way so that we don't see the Oil Temp moving all over the place. Still though the 180 to 230 window is pretty big.

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Andrew Harmsworth

I would welcome some advice, I have a single spark 20011150RT and have been trying to understand the content of this thread, I must admit while I have pulled the gearbox, replaced the clutch, balanced the carbs, etc the electronics of the fuel injection are more of a black art to me.

I am looking to eliminate light load surging which is mainly evident when going with the flow in traffic at low speeds, light load and 2-4k rpm it feels like it missies a beat every now and then. So after a full mechanical tune up I am thinking the bike would benefit form a bit more fuel and sounds like the classic issue of surging on the single spark model . As a UK bike it runs without the 10% Ethanol mix you get stateside?

While trying to understand the detail in the tread, I think the most suitable thing for me bearing in mind that I am not able to plot graphs or edit fuel maps is the addition of the AF-XIED device as a plug and play improvement the fulling type scenario, but really wanted to lean on the knowledge of those who have had more experience with this than me?

 

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Andrew,

The motronics is really a black art. I like to let guys like Roger do all the heavy lifting and then enjoy the fruits of their labor. :grin:. I'd go get an AF-XiED right now, install it, set it to 8, and go ride the heck out of that bike. That's what I did. Without knowing too much, it sounds like you have got that bike tuned where it needs to be and have the classic lean surge.

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Just got back from first ride on '93 R1100RSL after installation of Innovate Motor Sports LC-2 and all I can say is fantastic and I should have done it a couple years ago. Been riding with the O2 sensor disconnected and that was OK but this is better and i know the Motronic is happy as well. I couldn't resist programing for 13.2:1 AFR. Maybe a bit rich but not as rich as 12.9:1 on my '04 R1150RT which just makes the bike fantastic for smoothness and power output.

 

Oh, and big thanks to Roger for his insight and interest in our bikes, he helped and without him riding my oilheads ('04 R1150RT with LC-1 & '93RSL with LC-2) would not be the same.

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Oh, and big thanks to Roger for his insight and interest in our bikes, he helped and without him riding my oilheads ('04 R1150RT with LC-1 & '93RSL with LC-2) would not be the same.
Hear, hear!
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I installed a LC-1 in my R150RT and each time I tried to change the AFR with my laptop, I had problems. I have to do a free ait calibration each time I tried to play with the AFR settlings and sometimes it was ok. The problem I have when I try to play with the AFR settings is after I do that, the LC-1 become crazy and AFR constantly jump from 7.4 to 22 . After all this nightmare, I decided to use a booster plug with disconnected O2 sensor. Comments from James tempted me to try again to resolve this problem. My LC1 is perhaps broken.

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roger 04 rt
I installed a LC-1 in my R150RT and each time I tried to change the AFR with my laptop, I had problems. I have to do a free ait calibration each time I tried to play with the AFR settlings and sometimes it was ok. The problem I have when I try to play with the AFR settings is after I do that, the LC-1 become crazy and AFR constantly jump from 7.4 to 22 . After all this nightmare, I decided to use a booster plug with disconnected O2 sensor. Comments from James tempted me to try again to resolve this problem. My LC1 is perhaps broken.

 

The LC-1s have been known to be twitchy. I had a problem once when my power was intermittent and thought I'd lost it. But it's been working now for more than a year. I even get good calibration using the vacuum cleaner method.

 

From everyone I've spoken to, the LC-2 (a different design) is very stable. If you get one, make sure you get the 3' cable for the O2, not the 8' (although that does work, it's just a lot of extra cable).

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Hi Roger

 

I'll try again the vacuum cleaner method calibration.

 

The LC2 interest me but low AFR like 13.5 always means more pinging with my bike. As i'm not really tempted to do a carbon cleaning of the pistons (as I suppose) I hesitate. Using BP with no O2 sensor give me better results than stock but some pinging is still there but more less than 13.5 AFR setting with the LC1 when it worked.

 

When the temperature is near 70 F, pinging is near nonexistent but over 80 F this is another thing. Sometimes i'm wondering if oil temp sensor is working ok. I could test it with the values you published sometimes ago.

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I installed a LC-1 in my R150RT and each time I tried to change the AFR with my laptop, I had problems. I have to do a free ait calibration each time I tried to play with the AFR settlings and sometimes it was ok. The problem I have when I try to play with the AFR settings is after I do that, the LC-1 become crazy and AFR constantly jump from 7.4 to 22 . After all this nightmare, I decided to use a booster plug with disconnected O2 sensor. Comments from James tempted me to try again to resolve this problem. My LC1 is perhaps broken.

 

I started down this road 3 or more years ago with my '04RT trying to improve performance issues caused by too lean operation. Built my own booster plug, experimented with different cat code plug configurations, installed a Techlusion and on and on. Then this thread began after Roger came on the scene and if he hadn't I would by now have parted company with my '04RT and would never have acquired my pristine '93RSL. I was desperate. If I were you I would not give up on Innovate Motor Sports and I would even go so far as to bite the bullet on the LC-1 if it's not under warranty (1year) and just buy an LC-2 because it's worth it and the only correct way to go where the Motronic is concerned in my very humble opinion. Oh, and I too have great success with the vacuum cleaner method for free air calibration. I wish the LC-2 had been available sooner because it is so simple to install with much less wiring. I am even thinking about retiring my LC-1 for this reason. Hmmmm, might even make you a deal you can't refuse on a pristine LC-1 if you're interested. I would think the richer mix (13.5) would mean less pinging not more. Have you tried Techroline treatments? How do your secondary plugs look if you have the dual plug model that is. I doubt fuel treatments or any kind of additives can touch hard carbon deposits. How many miles on bike? How is the oil consumption?

Edited by JamesW
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Hi James

 

Roger also helped me a lot with the LC-1 installation and settings

 

My bike has 100 000 kms (60 000 miles). I never tried any product to clean the combustion chambers. Oil consumption is near 1 liter / 5000 kms. I could be interested by your LC-1 depending of the price asked. I suspect I broke mine during AFR setting. I perhaps disconnected and connected it during AFR setting. Innovate warns us to don't do that during setting but I've accidentally done it.

 

About pinging, lower AFR settings is supposed to encourage preignition of fuel. This something I read elsewhere. I dont't know about the theory of this.

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Today morning was rainy. I tried again vacuum cleaner O2 free air calibration method and it now worked. I settled the AFR at 13.5 and the bike today was a joy to drive with no pinging at all. Temperature was only near 70 F. In the past, I previously adjusted my bike at 13.5 but now I added the booster plug with this AFR setting. The results I have now seems a lot better than what I had in the past. Do I have better air cal now or it is the added BP which seems to give me better results ?

 

I still have a problem with the LC-1 each time I try to change the AFR setting. Every time i want to do an AFR change, I have to do a free air O2 calibration. If I don't do it, the AFR jump constantly from 7.4 to near 22.

 

With the vacuum cleaner method air cal. I could at least now live with this problem.

 

Thanks again Roger and Jim for all your help.

 

 

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roger 04 rt

Marc,

Due to mixture adaptation your Motronic will get to the same AFR with or without the BoosterPlug. However, after you reset the Motronic, if you use a BoosterPlug, the Motronic gets a head start by 6%. For example, if you want to shift AFR by 8%, lambda=0.92 (which is 13.5:1afr for gasoline without ethanol), without a BoosterPlug the Motronic has to create adaptive values that add 8% to fueling. If you start with a BoosterPlug, the Motronic only has to add 2% by mixture adaptation.

 

As an aside, if you use a BoosterPlug with a stock O2 sensor, the Motronic creates a negative-6% adaptation factor to remove the fuel added by the BoosterPlug.

 

To know if lowering the air temperature is having some other effect, say on spark timing, you would have to do some testing after several tanks of fuel with each setup, at a variety of air temperatures.

 

I think you should ride the bike with the BoosterPlug installed and with its probe at the air inlet so it is measuring the temperature of the air going into the engine. Here is where I used to have mine installed:

 

lc6.jpg

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In fact, my booster plug is twin IAT sensors connected in series. I placed it like you did on the picture. Since I had the LC-1, I didnt use the BP.

 

As I had trouble with the LC-1 AFR setting, I decided to use again only my BP with no O2 sensor with the high fuel pressure regulator. I got really bad fuel mileage with this setting. I used this setting for one month before using again the LC-1 yesterday when I finally had success with Vacuum cleaner O2 air calibration.

 

Now I use the LC-1, BP, with high pressure reg with an AFR of 13.5. I will perhaps try an AFR near 13 like Jim did.

 

I did again aggressive ride last night to make the bike pinging. There was no pinging whatever i've done. (???) As stated the temperature was near 70°F so I now suppose (and I was) that my pinging problems is closely in relation when the temp goes higher than say 80°F.

 

I suspect I can do something with the oil temp sensor which probably has directly an influence with the timing. Warm days will tell me if the previous pinging I had will come back.

 

I cross my fingers but...

 

 

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roger 04 rt

I forgot you had the 3.5 bar FPR, which adds 8%. So you start out with that plus 6% for the BP for a total of 14% more than stock. When set at lambda=0.92, your Motronic learns and removes 6% of the fuel you added.

 

It's not worth fooling with the oil temp sensor. Once the bike is warm, it is ignored as far as I know. If you hold it below warmed up temperature, the Motronic will assume it's broken.

Edited by roger 04 rt
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Hi Roger

 

Finally, according to this explanation, using 3,5 bar FPR and BP should (normally) be useless because the the Motronic will keep the AFR settled by us with the LC-1 ?

 

I asked you this question because changing the stock FPR to the 3,5 bar was not really a funny job.

 

I think I found the culprit I had with my LC-1. I'll check that when returning at home next friday.

 

If endless pinging and endless problems when setting the LC-1 are gone, this will begin great holidays coming for me next weekend.

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roger 04 rt
Hi Roger

 

Finally, according to this explanation, using 3,5 bar FPR and BP should (normally) be useless because the the Motronic will keep the AFR settled by us with the LC-1 ?

 

I asked you this question because changing the stock FPR to the 3,5 bar was not really a funny job.

 

I think I found the culprit I had with my LC-1. I'll check that when returning at home next friday.

 

If endless pinging and endless problems when setting the LC-1 are gone, this will begin great holidays coming for me next weekend.

 

Hi Marc, Back four years ago when I started the Wideband O2 project I was not fully aware of the extent of BMW mixture adaptation, nor was I sure how much range it had. At that point it seemed best to shift the fueling by adding fuel pressure OR a BoosterPlug.

 

Over the course of my testing, I realized that the Motronic and BMSK have extensive mixture adaptation capability, which made the fuel pressure boost or BP installation unnecessary. (Although, there is less adaptation required if you give the Motronic a headstart by using one of those devices.)

 

What do you think was wrong with your LC-1?

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Hi Roger

 

Problem with my LC-1 was me. Shame on me I didn't took the time to read correctly the LC-1 instructions.

 

Anyway if it can help someone I will tell you the stupid thing i've done.

 

Every time I changed the AFR setting I thought I had to use the reset tag on the window before doing another AFR setting. Doing this means you have to do O2 free air cal each time you press the reset tag on the window. That's why I could do an AER setting only after i've done an O2 free air calibration.

 

Finally my LC- culprits I had were

 

1- O2 problems because there was a little solder bulge inside the muffler that broke the o2 sensor when screwing it in.

 

2- The history I wrote above

 

 

 

 

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roger 04 rt

Marc, Don't be too hard on yourself. Using a Wideband O2 requires precision and a lot of different skills to do it right. Making matters worse, the LC-1 is/was very twitchy. I think you've done well to figure things out, and I'm really glad that you have. I hope the pinging finally goes away.

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Marc, Don't be too hard on yourself. Using a Wideband O2 requires precision and a lot of different skills to do it right.

 

Hi Roger

 

If we didn't have you to help us, I really think many people here would not have the LC-1 (or other)working correctly.

 

Many thanks again. I'll do soon measurements on stick coils with an oscilloscope to look at the voltage I Have. Your relay mod also interest me.

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Since wednesday I settled my bike at 12.9 AFR. Jim strongly recommended me to try it. The 12.9 AFR really transform my bike. It idles more smoothly, there's less vibrations at high speed. It revs faster with authority. This is a real improvement over everything I tried.

 

In the past my bike always suffered with severe pinging when driving hard. The pinging was mostly there when accelerating from 60 mph. Now the pinging is gone. Why ???. Changes since pinging is gone were going to 12.9 AFR and added booster plug with the LC-1. There was pinging with LC-1 settled at 13.5+ 3.5 bar FPR. Now the AFR is settled at 12.9 + 3,5 bar FPR + BP. O2 sensor calibration was made with vacuum cleaner method. Can the BP makes the pinging gone ? Even if 12,9 AFR makes my bike so fun to drive, I couldn't think it made the pinging gone. There"s perhaps a relation with inlet air temperature and timing ?

 

With all these improvements I always thought the air box breathing could be better on the R1150RT, Inlet air seems choked with the small inlet snorkel. I am tempted to find a way to let more air going to the filter, At least try it, More air means for me the LC-1 could adjust the AFR accordingly to the incoming air.

 

Anybody tried it with a LC-1 or other device which adjust the AFR ?

 

Thanks

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roger 04 rt
... Can the BP makes the pinging gone ? Even if 12,9 AFR makes my bike so fun to drive, I couldn't think it made the pinging gone. There"s perhaps a relation with inlet air temperature and timing ?

...

 

It is likely that there is a table that adjusts timing, based on Air Inlet Temperature but haven't tried to measure it. It is my understanding that spark advance correction for air temperature is usually to REDUCE advance at higher air temperatures to prevent preignition. If that is the case, the BoosterPlug would have the effect of allowing MORE advance.

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With your AFR at 12.9:1 what happens if you re-install the OEM AIT sensor? Have you checked the timing using the fuel pump on method?

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roger 04 rt

I checked with a guy who is pretty expert reading the Motronic tables. For MA 2.4, some ECUs retard the ignition for temperatures above 45C, some have no correction. In either case, lowering the air temperature no effect below 45C.

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With your AFR at 12.9:1 what happens if you re-install the OEM AIT sensor? Have you checked the timing using the fuel pump on method?

 

Hi Jim

 

I still have the OEM AIT sensor but added a another one in series with it.

 

Since I settled my bike at 12.9 with the added AIT sensor i'm so happy with this bike i'm now afraid to do anything :)

 

Can you describe more about checking the timing using the fuel pump on method ? It's the first time I heard about this.

 

Yesterday, It was the first time I rode the bike alone with 12.9 AFR setting. Let me tell you my mpg will surely drop the way I rode the bike. I'm still astounded how the bike is smooth and accelerate faster with NO PINGING I still wonder why pinging is gone. This is a good mystery.

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Hi Marc,

I would still try it with the one AIT sensor as I doubt you will notice much if any difference other than an improvement in MPG. I say better to run in stock condition with only the LC-1,2 with wideband O2 sensor.

 

The fuel pump should activate when the "S" timing mark appears centered in the timing mark window located on the right side of the engine accessed by removing the small plastic cover. I removed the primary plugs to make the engine easier to rotate by hand while listening for fuel pump activation. You can rotate the engine by placing the trans in top gear and gently bumping the rear tire in the direction it would turn while propelling the motorcycle forward. Then to adjust the timing loosen the bolts to allow very slight rotation of the HES mounting plate on the front of the engine such that fuel pump turn on occurs when the S mark is centered in the observation window. Be careful to not turn engine over backwards, only rotate forwards. If you're careful and patient you can get the timing spot on. Oh, with a pencil mark the position of the HES plate before you begin just in case you need to return to your starting point. Also, I think you can check the timing with a timing light by revving the engine past the point of maximum advance and observing the maximum advance mark in the timing mark observation window.

 

Maybe the reason your pinging has stopped is the engine is running cooler because of the richer mixture. Might be interesting to adjust the LC-1 to the point where the pinging just re-appears then set the LC-1 a tenth or two richer and see how you like the overall performance at that setting. What spark plugs are you using?

Edited by JamesW
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I use Iridium NGKs on top and low spark plugs. I remember the top ones are one grade cooler than the original.

 

Pinging was there with stock spark plugs with the bike in stock condition. It was still there With BP with no O2 sensor. It was there with LC-1 settled at 13.5 with BP and 3.5 bar reg.

 

I remember the worst case was there last time with 13.5 AFR.

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Well, I would still use one OEM AIT sensor at 12.9 AFR and see what happens. I would also give 13.2:1 a try just to say I did. Does the bike use oil? Would be not a lot of fun to de-carbon an oilhead. My '04RT pinged a bit when it was fairly new and oil consumption was about 1/4 quart per 500 miles or so but at around 10K miles consumption dropped and it hasn't pinged since. I ran in my '93 R1100RS fast and didn't hesitate to hit red line when shifting. Never has used oil and has never pinged. Had a '79 R100T that was an oil user and pinged a lot. Ended up removing heads and de-carboning. Also, installed new piston rings then rode it hard and no more oil consumption or pinging. Of course this was easy to do on an airhead.

Edited by JamesW
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Today I tried an open air box filter to look if motor performance would be better. Perhaps motor breathed better but the throaty garbage sound coming from the air box disturbed me.

 

I also tried to use only the stock AIT sensor and pinging came back. As soon as i connected my second AIT in series with stock one, pinging was gone and I suspect I like the power better than with only the stock AIT.

 

So now There's a second AIT in series with stock one, a 3.5 bar regulator and a LC-1 settled at an AFR of 12.9. As the bike is now, I think it's the end of improvement. As it is I also think I'll get really great MPG performance. More on that at the end of the tank.

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