Milky FD oil

[Hadabadachada]

No pressure washing.

after the first time this happened, I replaced the vent, and changed the oil every few hundred miles. Did this like 4 times.

last time I changed the oil, the end of April, it was all clear and good.

 

since then I’ve ridden through some decent storms, pretty decent storms, AND my coworker washed my bike twice without my permission, being nice, I don’t know how he used the hose, I doubt he would just be spraying there. 
 

which is what I’m going to do today. Take the hose to it, and just spray for awhile right on the vent. Also supposed to rain today too. 
ride home then drain it again.

 

I didn’t think to catch the oil since I thought I had the issue sorted, will have to go in thinking there is water in the FD everytime I flush it now.

 

I’ll find a picture of yesterday

freaking 4315 miles full on like this lol, wild, tough machine hopefully it’s not damaged.

 

you mentioned to drain into a container and let sit a few days to separate, I guess that’s how long it will take, other than like sitting overnight and draining in the morning 

 

I see you also mentioned you rode through water without the shaft boot. Good to hear as well, I thought maybe water was getting in the shaft and going into the FD that way somehow.

 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Hadabadachada said:

No pressure washing.

after the first time this happened, I replaced the vent, and changed the oil every few hundred miles. Did this like 4 times.

last time I changed the oil, the end of April, it was all clear and good.

 

since then I’ve ridden through some decent storms, pretty decent storms, AND my coworker washed my bike twice without my permission, being nice, I don’t know how he used the hose, I doubt he would just be spraying there. 
 

which is what I’m going to do today. Take the hose to it, and just spray for awhile right on the vent. Also supposed to rain today too. 
ride home then drain it again.

 

I didn’t think to catch the oil since I thought I had the issue sorted, will have to go in thinking there is water in the FD everytime I flush it now.

 

I’ll find a picture of yesterday

freaking 4315 miles full on like this lol, wild, tough machine hopefully it’s not damaged.

 

you mentioned to drain into a container and let sit a few days to separate, I guess that’s how long it will take, other than like sitting overnight and draining in the morning 

 

I see you also mentioned you rode through water without the shaft boot. Good to hear as well, I thought maybe water was getting in the shaft and going into the FD that way somehow.

 

Morning Hadabadachada

 

Well it's probably one of 2 things. Either you didn't get all the water out or it's seeping in through the vent. 

 

BMW obviously had a vent cap issue as they re-designed the original. 

 

Personally what I would probably do is remotely vent the drive but that is a lot of work & takes some creative plumbing to get it right.

 

I have some old farm tractors & other older equipment that has large cast iron crankcases & fairly open seals & venting (like wide open venting). Those large iron crankcases produce a LOT of internal moisture that can add a quart of more of water to the engine crankcase in cold weather (especially through changing temps above/below/above freezing in weather)

 

What I typically do on my old equipment is to drill & tap the drain plugs then install a small screw or even a petcock.    

 

The water settles to the bottom so I just open that screw or petcock & allow just the water to drain out. Works pretty good.

 

I don't know how thick that camhead final drive drain plug is but if the head is thick enough inside the center hex you could drill & tap that to take a very small screw that you can open occasionally to see if any water present. That hollow drain plug would probably be the first place water gathers. If it is feasible then use a small file or thin Dremel disk, or even a thin hacksaw blade & slot the top 3 or 4 threads on the screw. That will allow it to drain the water by just opening the screw to the last few threads & you won't have to actually remove the screw to check for water.  

 

With that screw in the hex center you will probably need to remove the small screw before you can get a tool into the plug center hex to remove the plug. 

[Skywagon]

If you want to try something simple until you can prove it’s the vent, get your oil cleaned up, then either put some waterproof tape on it or a silicone tub sealer that will come off easily. If that prevents water getting in, then you have found the culprit and can work on a more permanent solution. Yep.. it would be ugly, but effective. 

[Hadabadachada]

That’s probably a bit too much work for me to tap the drain plug and all that. 
don’t have the tools or time.
 

Especially since the bike doesn’t really sit.

if you’re saying to let the drained oil sit for a few days to separate. 
my bike doesn’t sit for more than a day, if that. 
 

After I pumped the FD full of oil, through the vent hole and ran the bike in gear for several minutes just spinning, I did clean the vent area real good and put a little gasket maker on the bottom of the vent dongle thing and put it back. 
 

will change the oil again today after the rain and some running to try and get the rest of the milk out. Probably do it again in a few days. 

 

 now that condensation was brought up, what are the chances that that introduced water?

 

in Maine the temps fluctuated quite a bit.

I guess I would have had to measure what I drained to see how much over 180ml I was. 
 

and how much water does it take to make the oil so milky like that? Just a bit or enough??

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, Hadabadachada said:

That’s probably a bit too much work for me to tap the drain plug and all that. 
don’t have the tools or time.
 

Especially since the bike doesn’t really sit.

if you’re saying to let the drained oil sit for a few days to separate. 
my bike doesn’t sit for more than a day, if that. 
 

After I pumped the FD full of oil, through the vent hole and ran the bike in gear for several minutes just spinning, I did clean the vent area real good and put a little gasket maker on the bottom of the vent dongle thing and put it back. 
 

will change the oil again today after the rain and some running to try and get the rest of the milk out. Probably do it again in a few days. 

 

 now that condensation was brought up, what are the chances that that introduced water?

 

in Maine the temps fluctuated quite a bit.

I guess I would have had to measure what I drained to see how much over 180ml I was. 
 

and how much water does it take to make the oil so milky like that? Just a bit or enough??

Afternoon Hadabadachada

 

You won't see condensation this time of year, it takes cold damp weather to gain much moisture. 

 

You probably won't see a measurable amount of water gain as it takes very little water to make a milky mess.  

 

As long as the motorcycle doesn't sit for long with moisture in the gear oil then it really won't hurt much as it will still lubricate properly. It's letting it sit for weeks/months at a time with that milky mess in there that will start to corrode ferrous things. 

 

It will take long time for water to separate from the gear oil if it is just milky, if there is actually more water in there than the gear oil can mix with then most of that water will separate quickly but the milky part will still take a long time to settle out. 

 

If you wanted to see how much water is in the oil then you could make a crude still to boil the water in the gear oil then condense the produced steam back into water & catch/measure that. 

 

 

[Hadabadachada]

I thought, maybe all the Maine riding caused some condensation. or while I was in PA there were a few drastic drops in temp with some storms moving through. 
 

I should write up a ride report from my trip. 

[dirtrider]

34 minutes ago, Hadabadachada said:

I thought, maybe all the Maine riding caused some condensation. or while I was in PA there were a few drastic drops in temp with some storms moving through. 
 

I should write up a ride report from my trip. 

Afternoon Hadabadachada

 

It takes cold enough to see your breath. 

 

If you want to see moisture turn to water inside an engine or transmission just drive a below 0°f crankcase old tractor into a cow barn. All those breathing cows make a LOT of moisture. Problem was you usually couldn't get those old tractors to warm all that exposed crankcase enough in real cold weather to drain the water out as it had turned to ice inside the crankcase.  

[Hadabadachada]

I did see my breath a few nights on petit manan but the bike was not running at those times, just sitting

[Hadabadachada]

So BMW lowered the FD oil level to 180 because they didn’t have a breather? Then they put a breather and kept the level the same??

 

so I’m wondering if I can just plug the breather port and not have any issues?

 

I’ll be damned if i gotta pay that much money to touratech. 
 

wonder if my co worker can 3D print some fittings….

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, Hadabadachada said:

So BMW lowered the FD oil level to 180 because they didn’t have a breather? Then they put a breather and kept the level the same??

 

so I’m wondering if I can just plug the breather port and not have any issues?

 

I’ll be damned if i gotta pay that much money to touratech. 
 

wonder if my co worker can 3D print some fittings….

Morning  Hadabadachada

 

BMW went back to a vented drive for a reason. It would have been cheaper to leave it unvented as that tooling was already in place. The crown bearing & seal is different on the camheads, the replacement drives for the hexheads are also vented.

 

As for 3D printing a fitting, sure IF they have a design with correct dimensions & have the proper material to print it from. 

 

I haven't remotely vented the camhead but probably wouldn't have a problem, making, or modifying an existing fitting from an auto parts store to be a press fit, then install using LocTite 680.

[MoPops]

Interesting thread.  I just drained my FD oil after a trip to AK.   It wasn’t as yellow as what’s pictured, but had a grey milky look to it.  I suspect water got in during some really hard rains on the trip.   I ordered a new breather vent cap plug. I was going to change it again soon, and see how it looks.  My GSA is a 2012 with 27,000 miles on it. (15,000 on it when I bought it a few months ago).  Still waiting for other parts to come in.  The left bar end weight, bolt, and washers all fell off on the 1,300 miles of gravel.  Along with the bolts that hold on the rear splash guard.  I guess parts come in from Germany on these older bikes.  Hard for me to think of my 2012 as that old of a bike.. 

Thanks for posting all the info on your FD oil.  

[Hadabadachada]

Sure looks like some water got in. 
I just can’t trust those rubber vents anymore. First time I got water I ordered a new “updated” part, still got water. I put some sealer on the bottom to mate with the FD. 

I wonder if the Miami heat has anything to do with water getting in.

 

Or maybe the vent is sealing fine and that water is just from condensation…maybe

tho I thought that was what a vent was for..

drained my oil again yesterday for the 4th or 5th time in the last few days, and probably didn’t have to this time, didn’t see any left over “milk” 

But just wanted to make sure I cleared everything. 
 

I’ll check again after I go through some more rain, which will probably only take a week here in Miami. Even when the forecast is sunny, I get rained on. 
 

 

[dirtrider]

55 minutes ago, Hadabadachada said:

Sure looks like some water got in. 
I just can’t trust those rubber vents anymore. First time I got water I ordered a new “updated” part, still got water. I put some sealer on the bottom to mate with the FD. 

I wonder if the Miami heat has anything to do with water getting in.

 

Or maybe the vent is sealing fine and that water is just from condensation…maybe

tho I thought that was what a vent was for..

drained my oil again yesterday for the 4th or 5th time in the last few days, and probably didn’t have to this time, didn’t see any left over “milk” 

But just wanted to make sure I cleared everything. 
 

I’ll check again after I go through some more rain, which will probably only take a week here in Miami. Even when the forecast is sunny, I get rained on. 
 

 

Afternoon  Hadabadachada

 

It would take many/many cold cycles even in humid conditions to turn your drive gear oil as milky as yours was. 

 

More likely a hot drive while riding got cooled off as you entered the rain (wet roads), then that cooling allowed the chamber inside the drive to go to negative pressure then suck a little water in through the vent. 

 

Did you ask your friend if he power washed it?   THAT is a big reason water gets into (supposedly sealed things)  on motorcycles. 

 

 

[Hadabadachada]

No, I know he didn’t power wash it at work. Just hose. 

[Hadabadachada]

Bike went thru the storm that passed, set up my bike so the water dripped all on the FD. Rode in rain a few, hoses the fd down.

flushed oil, looked hood. 
hopefullt that sealant I put around the vent fixed my leak

will check again in 1000