2004 R1150RT right cylinder will not fire

[Keith S]

-Ok so the exhaust would rumble when letting off the throttle and really rough idle so i first cleaned the big brass screws. Still same problem!

-next i pulled the coil stick on the right side and found that it had broken. Installed new sticks and plugs..... still same problem!

-next i pulled the injectors and did the spray on cardboard test. Right injector not firing. Ah-ha that must be the problem! Removed the injector did a back flow then correct flow with a 9volt battery to open the injector. Got the injector to fire and installed it. Still same problem!!

-pulled the right stick coil and installed the plug. Grounded the plug and got good strong spark

Ok i have fuel injection and spark the last thing to check is compression? Didn't get too exact with the reading but it was around 130 and that's all i wanted to know is that I have reasonable compression.

-Set to TDC and checked to see that the right side rockers were loose and the left side was tight. Yup all good there.

Ran it again

-right exhaust pipe cold

-removed plug and it was wet with fuel

I'm out of ideas and would really appreciate some guidance.

Oh the bike has 126000 KM

 

thanks in advance

Keith

EDIT

-The tachometer is steady and not jumping around.

[Lowndes]

Swap just the plugs and try it again.

[Keith S]

3 minutes ago, Lowndes said:

Swap just the plugs and try it again.

I just did a test where I left the plug in the right side head, pulled the stick coil and inserted a plug then grounded it. Started the bike and ran the RPM up and down and had strong spark through the different RPM's. Also did a similar test with the right side injector and ran it through the the RPM's and had strong fuel spray on the cardboard through the different RPM's.

I'll try swaping the plugs

thanks

Keith

[Lowndes]

5 minutes ago, Keith S said:

I just did a test where I left the plug in the right side head, pulled the stick coil and inserted a plug then grounded it.

 

Might be a good coil, a good test plug and a bad installed plug??

[Keith S]

9 minutes ago, Lowndes said:

 

Might be a good coil, a good test plug and a bad installed plug??

Just swapped the new plugs and no change. The stick coils and plugs are new.

Can the HES act up without the tachometer jumping around? My tachometer is steady.

[Redfoxx]

I am assuming your RT is dual spark since 2004, you have any spark on second exhaust plugs.

Did you do any work on the bike before this began to happen?

Are you getting too much fuel in a cylinder, causing no fire or for some reason no air on that side. (mouse house or something similar)

Throttle cables all in correct locations and cable seated in top of TB correctly? 

Did you reset TPS?

 

 

Dirt Rider will be along with more questions and some good answers.

[Keith S]

18 minutes ago, Redfoxx said:

I am assuming your RT is dual spark since 2004, you have any spark on second exhaust plugs.

Did you do any work on the bike before this began to happen?

Are you getting too much fuel in a cylinder, causing no fire or for some reason no air on that side. (mouse house or something similar)

Throttle cables all in correct locations and cable seated in top of TB correctly? 

Did you reset TPS?

 

 

Dirt Rider will be along with more questions and some good answers.

I am assuming your RT is dual spark since 2004, you have any spark on second exhaust plugs.

     No I never thought to check the second plug spark

Did you do any work on the bike before this began to happen?

     No work done

Are you getting too much fuel in a cylinder, causing no fire or for some reason no air on that side. (mouse house or something similar)

     When i did the injector spay on cardboard test the spray amount and pattern was the same as the running left side. But I am starting to wonder if a mouse got in there and chewed up the HES wires??

Throttle cables all in correct locations and cable seated in top of TB correctly? 

     Yes I checked that first when I did the big brass screws

Did you reset TPS?

     No it never crossed my mind since i haven't changed anything

 

thanks

Keith

 

 

 

 

 

[Redfoxx]

30 minutes ago, Keith S said:

I am assuming your RT is dual spark since 2004, you have any spark on second exhaust plugs.

     No I never thought to check the second plug spark

Did you do any work on the bike before this began to happen?

     No work done

Are you getting too much fuel in a cylinder, causing no fire or for some reason no air on that side. (mouse house or something similar)

     When i did the injector spay on cardboard test the spray amount and pattern was the same as the running left side. But I am starting to wonder if a mouse got in there and chewed up the HES wires??

Throttle cables all in correct locations and cable seated in top of TB correctly? 

     Yes I checked that first when I did the big brass screws

Did you reset TPS?

     No it never crossed my mind since i haven't changed anything

 

thanks

Keith

 

 

 

 

 

 

Keith

If you have fuel, spark, compression  and correct air an engine should run.

Talking outloud:

You said you have blue spark

Your compress check showed compression, so valves opening and closing sealing, if you checked them clearance the timing should be on. Wet plug tells you fuel getting in there. 

You said Main plugs are good. Coils new

Spark plug is wet either to much fuel, not enough air,  you have spark cross that off. 

 You could slide back Air intake hoses and look at throttle plates, and move throttle see if same movement. That would also let you look in your air box.

 

These bikes are weird creatures. When I washed mine today found 4 missing screws from fairing.  It was off about 600 miles ago and I know i put them in.

 

Well Dirt Rider or another advanced Tech person will be along. I think all the contributors covered most of the basics.

 

RF

 

 

 

[Lowndes]

Water in the fuel??  Sitting for a while can collect condensation.  Did you fill it up with hi-test??  

 

Do the injector spray test but into a clear, clean plastic pop bottle enough to get a good sample, 3-4 tablespoons worth, and let it sit for a few minutes.

 

You have spark.  On both cyls??  Are they each sparking at the right time?? 

 

 

[dirtrider]

23 hours ago, Keith S said:

-Ok so the exhaust would rumble when letting off the throttle and really rough idle so i first cleaned the big brass screws. Still same problem!

-next i pulled the coil stick on the right side and found that it had broken. Installed new sticks and plugs..... still same problem!

-next i pulled the injectors and did the spray on cardboard test. Right injector not firing. Ah-ha that must be the problem! Removed the injector did a back flow then correct flow with a 9volt battery to open the injector. Got the injector to fire and installed it. Still same problem!!

-pulled the right stick coil and installed the plug. Grounded the plug and got good strong spark

Ok i have fuel injection and spark the last thing to check is compression? Didn't get too exact with the reading but it was around 130 and that's all i wanted to know is that I have reasonable compression.

-Set to TDC and checked to see that the right side rockers were loose and the left side was tight. Yup all good there.

Ran it again

-right exhaust pipe cold

-removed plug and it was wet with fuel

I'm out of ideas and would really appreciate some guidance.

Oh the bike has 126000 KM

 

thanks in advance

Keith

EDIT

-The tachometer is steady and not jumping around.

Morning Keith

 

There is some conflicting info in your post but that sometimes happens when testing things.

 

First, the HES, sparks & injects both sides from the very same HES signals so with the L/H side working OK that pretty well eliminates the HES. 

 

Next, if it was a sparking issue, & with a TOTALLY COLD pipe, that would mean NO spark on that side (no upper coil fire AND no lower spark plug firing). Possible=yes, Probable =no. The same coil fires both side lower spark plugs together so with it actually idling that probably wouldn't happen if the L/H side lower wasn't working. But do check the R/H side lower spark plug for being oil fouled.

 

So that leaves compression, fuel flow/injection, & air flow on the R/H side.  You have tested compression & that seems to be enough to at least have combustion on that side. So that pretty well leaves fuel flow/injection, & air flow.

 

The fuel flow to the R/H side is probably OK unless you have a kinked or pinched off plastic pressure line coming from the pressure regulator (you might check for that). I know you sort of cleaned the R/H injector but it could still have plugged off fine mesh screen filter in the injector inlet (but they usually fire at idle even with a partially plugged injector inlet screen)

 

So now we are down to fuel injection, air flow, & total (upper/lower) spark failure on the R/H side.

 

On the injection, you for-sure need a working free flowing injector (you SEEM to have that from your testing but that isn't a for-sure). So with it running (if you can keep it running) see if you have 12v to the green wire going to the fuel injector. (if not post back here).

 

Next, you can test for fuel injector injection pulses using a NOID light, or with a 12v diode across the fuel injector connector terminals. (we will come back to this later if necessary)  

 

THEN, you have the big elephant in the room & that is air flow. Either lack of air or too much air! If too much air then you could have a cracked, loose, split, or disconnected air boot between the throttle body & the cylinder head. Or the throttle plate screws could have come loose allowing the throttle plate to stay open too far. 

 

OR, by far the most common reason for too much air  is the R/H throttle cable not being PROPERLY seated in the cable adjuster therefore holding the throttle plate open slightly on that side. Start by visually verifying the R/H side throttle cam is sitting solidly on the idle stop screw (if it isn't then you probably have the R/H throttle cable out of the adjuster & stetting on top of it  (very common problem). If the cable seems seated OK then get some help to work the throttle while you put a hand on each side throttle cam & feel for BOTH SIDE throttle cams lifting off of their idle stop screws at exactly the same time  (this is a very important check) If they aren't then you have something wrong in the throttle cable seating or adjustment. Or a loose throttle plate. 

 

If still nothing found then look inside the air box for a mouse nest or something blocking the R/H side air flow out to the throttle body. 

 

If all above OK then you are looking for ghosts. Like a dented-in or plugged R/H exhaust pipe, or a bad fuel injector, if you suspect this then try swapping fuel injectors side to side then see if the dead cylinder switches sides. 

 

Another quick test is to get it running (idling) then if you have a cold R/H exhaust pipe try running at about 1/2 throttle for about 5-8 seconds. If the pipe then becomes hotter suspect a throttle plate being held open at idle.    

 

With one side working you have some known good parts to swap so you can swap fuel injectors, both spark plugs, side to side to see if the problem stays on that side of moves with the component swap.

 

 

[Keith S]

4 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning Keith

 

There is some conflicting info in your post but that sometimes happens when testing things.

 

First, the HES, sparks & injects both sides from the very same HES signals so with the L/H side working OK that pretty well eliminates the HES. 

 

Next, if it was a sparking issue, & with a TOTALLY COLD pipe, that would mean NO spark on that side (no upper coil fire AND no lower spark plug firing). Possible=yes, Probable =no. The same coil fires both side lower spark plugs together so with it actually idling that probably wouldn't happen if the L/H side lower wasn't working. But do check the R/H side lower spark plug for being oil fouled.

 

 

 

OR, by far the most common reason for to much air  is the R/H throttle cable not being PROPERLY seated in the cable adjuster therefore holding the throttle plate open slightly on that side. Start by visually verifying the R/H side throttle cam is sitting solidly on the idle stop screw (if it isn't then you probably have the R/H throttle cable out of the adjuster & stetting on top of it  (very common problem). If the cable seems seated OK then get some help to work the throttle while you put a hand on each side throttle cam & feel for BOTH SIDE throttle cams lifting off of their idle stop screws at exactly the same time  (this is a very important check) If they aren't then you have something wrong in the throttle cable seating or adjustment. Or a loose throttle plate. 

 

 

OK i found the issue and here are the events that led up to it.

-the original problem was a broken stick coil on the right side and the right side injector not firing.

-installed new stick coil and spark plug

 

THEN while getting the ejector out for "cleaning" this happened (see photo below)

-the throttle cable came out of the sleeve that fits into the adjuster

-the picture is from the side so you can see it better but my view was looking at it head on and VERY hard to see.

 

 

 

 

This is what I expected to see but was not the case this time (photo below)

-this photo is a setup so you can see the little cup sleeve that stayed in the adjuster

 

 

So I fixed the two original problems and in doing so created a third problem which was very hard to see

 

thanks for the help guys as always MUCH APPRECIATED!

 

Keith

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Keith S said:

OK i found the issue

Afternoon Keith 

 

I like simple fixes (repairs). 

 

 

 

[taylor1]

Glad you found it. That has happened to me more than once on my 1150rt. Luckily, I always knew that was one of the first things to check. I'll bet D.R. has posted a 100 times to check that ferrell for a right-side firing issue.

[Keith S]

It was this in D.R.'s reply that got me to check it again

OR, by far the most common reason for too much air  is the R/H throttle cable not being PROPERLY seated in the cable adjuster therefore holding the throttle plate open slightly on that side. Start by visually verifying the R/H side throttle cam is sitting solidly on the idle stop screw (if it isn't then you probably have the R/H throttle cable out of the adjuster & stetting on top of it  (very common problem).

 

and bingo there is was!

Thanks D.R.!

 

Keith

[Paul De]

Gawd, can't even think of the number of times I have solved an idling or rough running issue because of a throttle cable cable sleeve not seated properly in its ferrule. Easy to overlook and frustrating when discovered after checking a bunch of other stuff.  Finally I hammered into head to use the KIS approach when chasing down a problem that cropped up after I messed around fixing something.  Glad it was nothing ugly that was causing your problem.