Driveshaft Recall Update

[MichiganBob]

I brought my 2018RT to the Grand Rapids, Michigan dealer today for a driveshaft inspection. It was out of specifications so they replaced it. I had no troubling signs up to now but I expect it could have been an issue in the future. I have 14K on the bike. The dealer will inspect and lube splines at 26K  and 38K at no cost to me and replace the driveshaft at 50k regardless of specs. Those with a similar bike and model who are in the recall parameter might find this useful.

 

Ride safe.

[Bruno From Québec]

I'm curious to know if anyone was able to obtain a driveshaft to replace themselves.

[MichiganBob]

When I first contacted the dealer, driveshafts were on backorder. He asked me to wait as he did not want to check it and if out of specs, put it back together with the out of spec driveshaft. So I'm thinking that getting a driveshaft replacement starts with the dealer finding that is necessary. They test it electronically while spinning it with what I understood to be a drill. The testing process is above my pay level.

[nestastubbs]

Just stopped by Max in Troy and they scheduled a replacement for my 2019 RT with 43k miles.  They seem to have them in stock.  Hopefully mine is fine for a trip down to the Smokies this month…

 

The trip to Max today was mostly an excuse to ride thru the Hudson Valley and western Vermont and get a Fullers London Pride at Man of Kent.  Oh, and pick up oil for the 6k interval.  The drivetrain has been fine.  Only complaint i have is a little timing chain slap, I think, if I lug it a bit uphill.

[JCtx]

Did you install the updated left side cam-chain tensioner? That could be why. I replaced it on my 2020, and now it runs like a Swiss watch. Ha ha. I have the p/n somewhere, if you need it. Hope this helps.

[Chug]

Current RS's were never mentioned in the shaft conversations, just GS and RT. Still, it did not make sense as to why not. Had my '16 inspected at 27K and got the shaft. Let your RS buddies (if you can find any 😉) know to get inspected,.

[JCtx]

All R 'wethead' bikes are included for free shaft replacement, except 2024s. But yes, it was initially just GSs, and the RTP. My R is included too, but I'm not remotely worried about a shaft failure. Don't ride in the rain, and live in the desert. The good news is that applies to any subsequent owner, which is a nice piece of mind for future owners. Maybe somebody can post going back to which year (I think it's 2015, but not sure).

[Stiggy]

The last conversation that I had with the Raleigh dealer is that unless a problem becomes obvious, drive shaft lubes will happen only with a paid for service at the same time.

Regardless, whatever may happen to the driveshaft in the meantime will be covered under warranty however.

 

At 20,000 miles, it will be a while before I go in for a new driveshaft but by then I figure they'll be used to swapping drive shafts at 36,000 regardless of whatever service is or is not purchased at the same time.

[wbw6cos]

Does anybody know if the lack of spline lube IS the actual cause of the drive shaft failure?   

[Bernie]

At the 12K service of my 2023 RT, the dealer in Daytona first tested the drive shaft using the prescribed method by BMW (before lubing it). And after it passed the test and inspection, he lubed both ends of the drive shaft.

They volunteered this info and told me that they had drive shafts in stock.

I do have a drive shaft on the shelf, which I bought for my 18 RT, before I found out that my cam shafts and followers where trashed.

[nestastubbs]

14 hours ago, JCtx said:

Did you install the updated left side cam-chain tensioner? That could be why. I replaced it on my 2020, and now it runs like a Swiss watch. Ha ha. I have the p/n somewhere, if you need it. Hope this helps.

Did not.  Boxflyer mentioned this when we did a 12k service.  It just took me a few months to realize the clack i got at low rpms going uphill, might be caused by this.

Edited July 4 by nestastubbs
Remembered

[marcopolo]

6 hours ago, Stiggy said:

The last conversation that I had with the Raleigh dealer is that unless a problem becomes obvious, drive shaft lubes will happen only with a paid for service at the same time.

Regardless, whatever may happen to the driveshaft in the meantime will be covered under warranty however.

 

At 20,000 miles, it will be a while before I go in for a new driveshaft but by then I figure they'll be used to swapping drive shafts at 36,000 regardless of whatever service is or is not purchased at the same time.

I’d tell your dealer to read the pertinent Service Information Bulletin that spells out revised maintenance schedules for all R-series wetheads, model year 2023 and older. It was issued in December, 2023. Testing, and lubing, driveshafts at 12K intervals, and replacement at 36K intervals, are all covered by warranty. It’s spelled out in black-and-white, it can’t be interpreted any other way. That service bulletin is available in the download section of this website (go to Browse/Downloads). You should read it too.  I've attached a copy to this post.

 

 

By the way, just to clarify, this is NOT a recall.  BMW has changed their maintenance schedules for all R-series wethead bikes (GR/RT/R/RS) model year 2023 amd older.  The schedules now call for the driveshaft to be tested every 12,000 miles, and splines lubed.  If it fails the test, it is replaced.  At 36,000  miles of driveshaft use, it is automatically replaced.  All of these items are covered by warranty, because these requirements were not in place when we bought our bikes.  These requirements are now included in Owners Manuals for model year 2024 bikes, so owners of 2024 bikes are responsible for paying.  It is not a warranty claim for them.

 

 

BMW Service Information Bulletin 33 04 23 Rear Axle, Rear Drive dated Dec12, 2023.pdf

[Stiggy]

16 minutes ago, marcopolo said:

I’d tell your dealer to read the pertinent Service Information Bulletin that spells out revised maintenance schedules for all R-series wetheads, model year 2023 and older. It was issued in December, 2023. Testing, and lubing, driveshafts at 12K intervals, and replacement at 36K intervals, are all covered by warranty. It’s spelled out in black-and-white, it can’t be interpreted any other way. That service bulletin is available in the download section of this website (go to Browse/Downloads). You should read it too.  Here's the full title:

 

 BMW Service Information Bulletin 33 04 23, "INFO: K5X DRIVESHAFT MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE CHANGE", dated December 12, 2023. 1.0.0

 

 

By the way, just to clarify, this is NOT a recall.  BMW has changed their maintenance schedules for all R-series wethead bikes (GR/RT/R/RS) model year 2023 amd older.  The schedules now call for the driveshaft to be tested every 12,000 miles, and splines lubed.  If it fails the test, it is replaced.  At 36,000  miles of driveshaft use, it is automatically replaced.  All of these items are covered by warranty, because these requirements were not in place when we bought our bikes.  These requirements are now included in Owners Manuals for model year 2024 bikes, so the owner is responsible for paying.  It is not a warranty claim for them.

Believe it or not, the dealer handed me that exact same Service Bulletin (33 04 23) as he told me that I had to tie it in with a paid service. I carry it in my top box.

I asked him if he now understood why all the confusion out there as I read the pertinent instructions from that exact paper back to him.

I told him to expect to see me at 36,000 and my wallet will stay in my pocket. (The bike virtually never sees rain.) Maybe he was having a bad day.

[marcopolo]

Well, in that case, maybe he needs a remedial reading course!  Either that, or you need another dealer.  They're obviously choosing to interpret this to their advantage, not yours.  That's too bad.

[Krid]

14 hours ago, nestastubbs said:

Did not.  Boxflyer mentioned this when we did a 12k service.  It just took me a few months to realize the clack i got at low rpms going uphill, might be caused by this.

 

[Krid]

Don't lug the engine, specifically when going uphill , run it at a minimum of 3-3500 rpms and you probably won't have an issue.(4k is even better!)

[RTinNC]

16 hours ago, marcopolo said:

Well, in that case, maybe he needs a remedial reading course!  Either that, or you need another dealer.  They're obviously choosing to interpret this to their advantage, not yours.  That's too bad.

Exactly!!  But I don’t get it since the dealer will get reimbursed by BMW for the lubing and replacement of the drive shafts.  I’d be concerned using that dealer.

[Dave_in_TX]

4 hours ago, RTinNC said:

Exactly!!  But I don’t get it since the dealer will get reimbursed by BMW for the lubing and replacement of the drive shafts.  I’d be concerned using that dealer.

Can the dealer refuse to do warranty work? I gave heard if other dealers requiring other service work in order to get driveshaft lubed. BMW's reimbursement rate is usually less than a shop's hourly rate. 

[BMW_Ken]

I was also told by the well respected Eurosport Asheville dealer that the free drive shaft replacement had to be done at a paid service. 
 

That was a few months ago. Not sure if they have changed their policy. I will find out in about 5,000 miles. 

[RTinNC]

1 hour ago, Dave_in_TX said:

Can the dealer refuse to do warranty work? I gave heard if other dealers requiring other service work in order to get driveshaft lubed. BMW's reimbursement rate is usually less than a shop's hourly rate. 

Ya know I’m not sure.  But I’ve never heard of it. 

[RTinNC]

26 minutes ago, BMW_Ken said:

I was also told by the well respected Eurosport Asheville dealer that the free drive shaft replacement had to be done at a paid service. 
 

That was a few months ago. Not sure if they have changed their policy. I will find out in about 5,000 miles. 

I had the free drive shaft done on my 2016 RT with 53k on it at the time   That was the only service I was having done and it was free without question at Motorcycles of Charlotte.i guess every dealer might have their own policies and Eurosport Asheville is a pretty well respected dealer.

[BMW_Ken]

When it is time for the replacement on my RT,  I will go to the Charlotte dealer if Eurosport Asheville is still requiring to have a paid service done at the  time of free driveshaft replacement.  I’m sure Ed can get me VIP service. 

[RTinNC]

You betcha!!  I will hook you up.

[narcosis]

The dealer in Pensacola insists that the drive shaft replacement needs to be done in conjunction with a paid service.  They said it's a service bulletin, not a warranty item.

[RTinNC]

33 minutes ago, narcosis said:

The dealer in Pensacola insists that the drive shaft replacement needs to be done in conjunction with a paid service.  They said it's a service bulletin, not a warranty item.

Maybe it's dealer specific    I can only speak from my experience with my local dealer.   I will say I am a regular customer at the dealer and have purchased 4 bikes from them since 2002.   But don't believe that should matter. 

[Dave_in_TX]

43 minutes ago, narcosis said:

The dealer in Pensacola insists that the drive shaft replacement needs to be done in conjunction with a paid service.  They said it's a service bulletin, not a warranty item.

Yet, the bulletin says that BMW is covering it under warranty.

[dirtrider]

28 minutes ago, narcosis said:

The dealer in Pensacola insists that the drive shaft replacement needs to be done in conjunction with a paid service.  They said it's a service bulletin, not a warranty item.

Morning Ken

 

There is some confusion on this as there was a service bulletin but that bulletin referred to a service campaign that included warranty information.  I'm still somewhat confused as different dealers seem to be putting their own spin on this.

 

It is difficult to really define this unless you have all the bulletins,  campaign info, & the new rider manual insert info in hand.

 

From what I can (could) tell the drive shaft REPLACENENT (either at early failure or at the specified mileage) is free for unlimited miles under BMW warranty (this seems pretty clearly stated). The problem is in the words "unlimited miles" as that usually has an end "date" hidden somewhere in the very fine print & possibly might not even be defined yet. 

 

From the information I have, the first drive shaft CHECK seems to be free, the first drive shaft re-grease seems to be free (without requiring other service included).

 

Where it becomes hazy is on the re-check or re-grease between the actual drive shaft changes. Early on there was some info from BMW that sort of stated that the after the first check/re-grease that the external re-checks would be free if a shaft problem was reported, but the between-shaft-replacement disassembly re-grease would not be covered as any "shaft failure" was covered under warranty. (this could have been re-defined or changed though as things progressed) 

 

 

Addition to the New Vehicle Limited
Warranty for Motorcycles and Scooters
(Valid only in the U.S.A. including Puerto
Rico)

Drive shafts will be replaced under warranty
every 36,000 miles or for failure due to a defect
in materials or workmanship for unlimited miles
for all K5X models up to model year 2023.

K5x models include; R 1200 GS (OAII), R 1200 GS
(OA61), R 1250 GS (OJ93), R 1250 GS (OM03), R
1200 GS Adventure. (OA12), R 1250 GS
Adventure. (OJ53), R 1250 GS Adventure. (OM13),
R 1200 RT (OA13), R 1250 RT (OJ63), R 1250 RT
(0103), R 1200 R (OA14), R 1250 R (OJ73), R 1250 R
(OM73), R 1200 RS (OA15), R 1250 RS (OJ83), R
1250 RS (OM83).

[Scotto336]

FWIW my inspection and lubing was indeed done while the bike was in for service.  The service was putting on new tires.  When I was running the service department of a BMW dealership back in the 80s we almost always lost money on warranty work.  The time allowed for the work was rarely sufficient for the job at hand.  I suspect that this "in for other service" request is rooted in dealers wanting to at least break even on bikes in for warranty work.  Whether the request is legit or not, I can't blame them for that. 

[dirtrider]

3 minutes ago, Scotto336 said:

FWIW my inspection and lubing was indeed done while the bike was in for service.  The service was putting on new tires.  When I was running the service department of a BMW dealership back in the 80s we almost always lost money on warranty work.  The time allowed for the work was rarely sufficient for the job at hand.  I suspect that this "in for other service" request is rooted in dealers wanting to at least break even on bikes in for warranty work.  Whether the request is legit or not, I can't blame them for that. 

Morning  Scotto336

 

That is what brought on the service departments under-breath saying of: The PEN is mightier than the WRENCH. 

[marcopolo]

We've been going round and round on this for a while.  In the end, I can only point to what's in the Service Bulletin(s).  Whether individual dealers are being somewhat disingenuous in how they interpret, or apply, that direction is another issue.  But, in SIB 33 04 23 (posted earlier in this thread), it says this:

 

"The replacement check and regrease of the cardan shaft (driveshaft) is covered by warranty and is offered to all customers that own a K5x motorcycle model year 2023 and older and unlimited miles or general service behavior of the customer."

 

Seems clear to me.  I would even go so far as to suggest that the phrase "...general service behavior of the customer" is there to make sure - as best BMW can - that these checks/regreasings/replacements are done, whether a bike owner ever services his/her bike, or not.  Can't then see how dealers can demand that this only be done together with a paid service.  That's not saying they won't try, of course.  I also sense the corporate BMW worry of liability hanging in the air, over all of this, in case of seroius injury, or death, due to a shaft failure.

[RTinNC]

3 minutes ago, marcopolo said:

We've been going round and round on this for a while.  In the end, I can only point to what's in the Service Bulletin(s).  Whether individual dealers are being somewhat disingenuous in how they interpret, or apply, that direction is another issue.  But, in SIB 33 04 23 (posted earlier in this thread), it says this:

 

"The repllacement check and regrease of the cardan shaft (driveshaft) is covered by warranty and is offered to all customers that own a K5x motorcycle model year 2023 and older and unlimited miles or general service behavior of the customer."

 

Seems clear to me.  I would even go so far as to suggest that the phrase "...general service behavior of the customer" is there to make sure - as best BMW can - that these checks/regreasings/replacements are done, whether a bike owner ever services his/her bike, or not.  Can't then see how dealers can demand that this only be done together with a paid service.  That's not saying they won't try, of course.  I also sense the corporate BMW worry of liability hanging in the air, over all of this, in case of seroius injury, or death, due to a shaft failure.

Yes !!  Going round and round for sure.   My dealer printed and gave me a hard copy of the bulletin and he also stated my replacement should be FREE as it was with no other service.  He also confirmed that in 4000 more miles (it has been 8000 since replacement) that they would for FREE lube and service the shaft.   As you noted some dealers may have added their own requirements but in that case if that happened to me I would be either speaking to the owner of the dealership of with BMW directly. 

[nestastubbs]

13 hours ago, Krid said:

Don't lug the engine, specifically when going uphill , run it at a minimum of 3-3500 rpms and you probably won't have an issue.(4k is even better!)

Ayup, thats what I do, the sound happens only in a few cases where i forget to downshift or a lose more speed than intended on an incline. It can happen all a way up to about 3.5.  It started when the engine got to around 25k miles or so.  I think it’s getting increasingly prone to it, but Im also more sensitive to it.  I’ll look into it more this fall when doing the next major service interval.

 

 It’s more fun to ride the VT roads at higher rpm anyway.  

[JCtx]

On 7/4/2024 at 3:44 AM, wbw6cos said:

Does anybody know if the lack of spline lube IS the actual cause of the drive shaft failure?   

There are 2 kinds of shaft failures: the ones when bikes catch air, and the ones due to rust. On the latter one, It has to be the lack of lube, since they wouldn't rust and seize if there was any. But the better question is if the factory forgot to lube some shafts (which I doubt), OR the lube washed out over time, when driving in the rain, over streams, etc. And of course, if you live in a salty and humid climate, it'd happen much sooner than in the dry desert. I'm not remotely worried about shaft failure, but I live in the desert, and don't abuse the bike at all. But might drop the FD next time I have the rear tire out, just to make sure there's still lube in there. I didn't do it this time, but only 3,500 miles so far, so no rush.

[RadioFlyer]

Yet lubed and non-rusty shafts fail BMW's mysterious spin test on occasion.

[Mellow]

5 hours ago, RadioFlyer said:

Yet lubed and non-rusty shafts fail BMW's mysterious spin test on occasion.

lubing a drive shaft splines is fine, it will avoid wear on those splines which can cause an issue.  Many early Valkyrie guys remember that.

 

However, it appears the u-joint part of the shaft is what fails and there's no way to lube that on an oem part.  So, it's either good or bad or past the 36k mile mark and is assumed a pending failure part.

[RTinNC]

[Stiggy]

I understand the dealer motivation for trying to tie it in with a paid service. I have never seen a warranty rate that comes close to a dealers regular shop rate (and with current pricing, the gap is probably bigger than ever.)

I just changed a rear tire here at the house last week. I chose to ignore the spline lube as I'm getting a new drive shaft at 36,000 and at 20,000 now, the bike has been caught in the rain exactly once,

[Scotto336]

Ok, now that you have your popcorn, someone please hold my beer.  Here come some bloviations from a wrench twirling, cranky old mechanical engineer/BMW mechanic from the past with apologies in advance if I’m repeating what’s been said before or telling you what you already know.  I posted some of this on the 1200R forum so you may have already seen it.  Stress and corrosion are obviously the enemy here. The stress in u joints with shafts in perfect alignment are near zero. The greater the angle the higher the stress and it is cyclic with rotation.  U joints in Toyota 4runners last almost forever unless the truck is lifted.  Lifting increases the angle.  I trust you already know that. Many years ago, I was working as an engineering consultant to the Saginaw division of GM. We were developing a flexible driveshaft for Corvettes and I set up a test fixture in my shop with the maximum angle and a motor to put as many stress cycles as possible. The objective was to try and see where failure would occur in terms of cycles. We also did extensive stress analysis and ultimately put some of these shafts on taxis in NYC to really understand when failure might occur. I don’t know if BMW did similar design testing for our R1200s. Given what we are seeing I tend to doubt it but the truth is that I don’t know. I would really like to know how close to failure (cycles or miles) this design is even in the absence of moisture/corrosion. What about moisture? If you take a look under your car or truck you will likely see U joints exposed to moisture that are covered in rust but working just fine. They were always meant to be re-lubed every so many miles through zerk fittings but few people actually did this and many don’t even have the grease ports. So why are ours sometimes failing? I think it’s likely a combination of things that don’t play well together. Ours are in a semi enclosed volume that can let moisture in and also experiences pressure fluctuations. These pressure fluctuations don’t occur on the exposed u joints on your car. They do occur in CV joints but these are sealed from moisture with proper boot clamps. I suspect that the pressure is sometimes pushing moisture past the bearing seals and leading to corrosion on a bearing that is already relatively highly stressed. Moisture plus pressure = water in your bearings. So what to do? I actually think that the duckbill “fix” is (or should be) intended to minimize the pressure peaks as much as letting moisture out.  So what about the spin test?  Spin testing driveshafts is more about balance.  A shaft with bad balance will also cause more stress at the joints, lubed and dry or not.  What about spline lube? The spline lubing allows the shaft to move back and forth a bit which lowers U joint stress.  Seized splines = more stress in the joints. My 1200  has a snap ring at the front spline connection but the rear is free.  I believe the newer ones are free at both ends but I haven't confirmed this.  I pulled the shaft on my 2016 R and it was already lubed at both ends.  I re-lubed it anyway with my favorite  moly lube.  I also installed the duck bill while I was there.  I think you should add one if you don't already have it. 

[greiffster]

12 hours ago, Scotto336 said:

What about spline lube? The spline lubing allows the shaft to move back and forth a bit which lowers U joint stress.  Seized splines = more stress in the joints. My 1200  has a snap ring at the front spline connection but the rear is free. 

I think this might be the issue. My ‘14 was rusted together at both ends. I had to beat the tar out of the damn thing to get it off. After cleaning and greasing, the drive end slides nicely while the snap ring locks the upper end. As the swing arm moves up and down the effective length has got to change some. If it can’t, then it’s got to induce some added stresses in the U joints.  No?

[Dave_in_TX]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:07 PM, JCtx said:

There are 2 kinds of shaft failures: the ones when bikes catch air, and the ones due to rust. On the latter one, It has to be the lack of lube, since they wouldn't rust and seize if there was any. But the better question is if the factory forgot to lube some shafts (which I doubt), OR the lube washed out over time, when driving in the rain, over streams, etc. And of course, if you live in a salty and humid climate, it'd happen much sooner than in the dry desert. I'm not remotely worried about shaft failure, but I live in the desert, and don't abuse the bike at all. But might drop the FD next time I have the rear tire out, just to make sure there's still lube in there. I didn't do it this time, but only 3,500 miles so far, so no rush.

Based on postings on advrider.com by people with relatively new BMWs who have checked/lubed their splines, some bikes have indeed left the factory with little or no grease on the splines.

[dirtrider]

9 hours ago, greiffster said:

I think this might be the issue. My ‘14 was rusted together at both ends. I had to beat the tar out of the damn thing to get it off. After cleaning and greasing, the drive end slides nicely while the snap ring locks the upper end. As the swing arm moves up and down the effective length has got to change some. If it can’t, then it’s got to induce some added stresses in the U joints.  No?

Morning Mike

 

That is the $64.00 question. Per design (and per BMW information) it isn't supposed to change length. BMW supposedly put the U joint  instant centers on the swing arm & final drive pivot points. If it stayed there under all torque loadings & suspension travel then it should not change length.  (well in theory anyhow). The front joint is pretty easy to figure out as it has a single pivot point, the rear is more difficult to figure as it has 2 pivot points that combine to keep the final drive angle pointed correctly. 

 

But the torque arm has rubber bushings & things flex under load so having it stay exactly on center during articulation or drive/braking load is up for debate, or until the motorcycle is ridden through all possible rear suspension travel positions, under all engine loadings, in every gear, with a camera looking at the rear sliding yoke. And even then there can be variations in individual motorcycle builds due to assembly line anomalies, tooling wear, supplier parts variations, etc. 

 

You could remove the rear boot, then unbolt the rear strut, then use a jack (or ratchet strap) to move the suspension through it's travel stroke while watching the rear yoke displacement  but that would only show a static situation. But while actually riding it is WAY more dynamic when riding under engine power and/or under hard braking, or over large quick suspension displacements. 

 

My guess is that it doesn't move much (during normal riding) or the rear wouldn't seize up solid in place.  If it slid every time a rider rode the motorcycle then it probably wouldn't seize in place. It probably has more chance of some displacement at full droop & at full compression. For a large number of (normal) riders  the full droop probably only happens at a slow displacement during center stand deployment. And full rear suspension compression probably seldom or even never happens.

 

Obviously if the rear spline is seized that could put more load on the rear U joint if the spline joint required some sliding but there is some displacement (give)  in the link strut rubber so that would help mitigate the load slightly. 

 

I seriously doubt that both the front & rear spline joints would seize at the same time so if the rear seized up first it could still slide the front a little & with a large input could over-ride the front snap ring & move it all it needs (until bottom out anyhow).

 

The big killer of single U joints is either exceeding the rated working angle or running at no working angle for long periods. Those small diameter rollers in the U joint  can Brinell the U joint cross if they continuously work in the same place without movement to re-grease    And obviously moisture or other contamination getting into the U joint needle bearings can kill a U joint over time. 

 

In the auto industry I have even seen cases where static electricity from the rear tires can etch the U joint bearings.  And back years ago when some auto companies ran the main battery ground directly to the frame (not the engine block) with an additional ground strap between the engine & frame, if that additional ground strap would fail, or be left disconnected by a mechanic, or somehow gain high resistance then the starter high electrical load would weld transmission thrust washers, arc through the U joints & pit those,  & even put weld marks on the ring & pinion teeth.  

 

On the BMW, the front U joint seems to have the best chance of getting to a higher working angle more often with the rear not so much, but the rear U joint is usually the one that fails. I can't say for sure as I haven't ever run any full stoke U joint angle measurements on the BWM but the chance is probably pretty high that the rear could run at a 0° angle for miles at a time. And obviously the rear has a much better chance of water contamination as it is the lower point. 

 

Without a LOT of testing, dissecting before failure but after long term operation , long term load testing, running angle tracking, water intrusion effect evaluation (with water present & without water present), U joint size vs max & nominal load handling prediction, assembly line greasing procedure, & grease type vs moisture/load/over time, even swing arm interior temperature tracking (more that I haven't thought of)  there is no positive way to know the exact failure reason (or reasons).

 

It seems to me (and I have been in the automotive engineering business for many years) that even BMW doesn't have a good handle on this problem as their current path is to require frequent re-greasing & accelerated complete drive shaft replacements on their dime (for all the pre 23 boxer bikes) & customer pay drive shaft service on the post 23 boxer bikes. 

 

If BMW had this completely understood & a known (long term working fix) there would be one new drive shaft update to correct the drive shaft issue  with a possible re-grease of the rear splines at longer intervals than the present short intervals. 

 

There is something in their current design that is biting them big time or there would be a one-time re-call with a permanent fix.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bernie]

Maybe the fix is a re-design of the swing arm. And that is most likely the reason a recall can’t fix it. On the R1300’s they extended the swing arm. 

[dirtrider]

26 minutes ago, Bernie said:

Maybe the fix is a re-design of the swing arm. And that is most likely the reason a recall can’t fix it. On the R1300’s they extended the swing arm. 

Morning Bernie

 

Yes, they did extend the swing arm but that (at least BMW claims) was because they moved the engine position forward, is there something else hidden in that explanation? Possibly, with BMW you never know. 

 

I would be more interested in if they increased the U joint size,  or  increased the U joint load rating, or changed the U joint working angles (I have never liked grossly dissimilar U joint working angles), or even included a slip yoke of some sort in the drive shaft. Or possibly adding a permanent corrosion inhibitor coating on the internal & external splines. 

 

If they still require frequent drive shaft maintenance will tell us a lot about their understanding/improvement  of the drive line issues. 

 

Maybe we will see an open skeleton-like torque tube with booted CV joints on a future boxer bikes. (at least it would look modern)  

[marcopolo]

The maintenance schedule for the 1300 GS includes periodic servicing of the driveshaft  ("visually inspect and lubricate the universal shaft") every 12,000 miles, and its replacement, albeit at a slightly longer interval than the 1200s and 1250s (48,000 miles vs. 36,000 miles for the 1200s and 1250s).  Also notable is that none of the driveshaft maintenance, and replacement, is covered by warranty on the 1300. That was one of the reaasons I chose to buy a new 1250 GS, and not a 1300, a few months ago.

[dirtrider]

31 minutes ago, marcopolo said:

The maintenance schedule for the 1300 GS includes periodic servicing of the driveshaft  ("visually inspect and lubricate the universal shaft") every 12,000 miles, and its replacement, albeit at a slightly longer interval than the 1200s and 1250s (48,000 miles vs. 36,000 miles for the 1200s and 1250s).  Also notable is that none of the driveshaft maintenance, and replacement, is covered by warranty on the 1300. That was one of the reaasons I chose to buy a new 1250 GS, and not a 1300, a few months ago.

Thanks Mark

 

So that makes it sound (to me anyhow) like BMW had the 1300 way too far into development & durability testing to change anything before all their drive shaft problems surfaced to the extent they have.   

 

Pretty sad as some of my chain bikes go a lot longer than that before replacement.  

[wbw6cos]

I see that online fiche show the prop shaft available for $224.25.   

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, wbw6cos said:

I see that online fiche show the prop shaft available for $224.25.   

Morning William

 

That is probably about, or not much above, BMW's  cost & WAY cheap for a BMW major component. I think the BMW 1150 drive shaft is over $1300.00. Well + the dealer install cost for most riders.

 

A&S still shows the 1300 drive shaft at  $1,570.66 in their on-line parts fiche. 

[RTinNC]

2 hours ago, marcopolo said:

The maintenance schedule for the 1300 GS includes periodic servicing of the driveshaft  ("visually inspect and lubricate the universal shaft") every 12,000 miles, and its replacement, albeit at a slightly longer interval than the 1200s and 1250s (48,000 miles vs. 36,000 miles for the 1200s and 1250s).  Also notable is that none of the driveshaft maintenance, and replacement, is covered by warranty on the 1300. That was one of the reaasons I chose to buy a new 1250 GS, and not a 1300, a few months ago.

And that’s why my next BMW will be 2023 or older.   Just makes sense. 

[Dave_in_TX]

3 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Thanks Mark

 

Pretty sad as some of my chain bikes go a lot longer than that before replacement.  

DR, I would be interested to what chain bikes that can go that far and what your chain maintenance routine. I have seen similar claims before but on many forums related to chain driven bikes, 12k seems common although a few outliers are reporting chain life similar to what you are experiencing.

[Rob Nowell]

On 7/3/2024 at 2:26 PM, MichiganBob said:

replace the driveshaft at 50k

my dealer told me every 36k after this first 36k