99 R1100R Harsh Lesson

[WR Rider]

This is basically a post to vent. Caution proceeding if you are a died in the wool BMW fan. 

 

Imagine inheriting one of these bikes from your brother in pristine condition with 51K miles on it and seeing it nearly burn itself up just from idling at 1800rpms for 10-15 minutes. I wasn't warned never to let the bike idle with the starting circuit on and I didn't have the manual to read that information either. I have owned numerous air cooled off road bikes and I have never heard of a machine that tried to destroy itself so quickly. Temperature was only around 75F and the bike ran about 10- 15 minutes before it shut off and I am assuming that is because the HES is now toast. I was on may way out to shut it down when I heard it quit running.  

 

Yes, I probably shouldn't have taken a phone call after I started the bike, but why would I have ever thought it would get so damn hot so quickly just from idling?  The bike got so hot that the powder coated paint on the heads and part of the cylinders turned gold from burning the paint. The sight glass turned milky white from the heat of the oil. I have never felt heat come off of a machine like that ever before just from idling and I have been around a lot of toys over the years. 

 

I changed the sight glass, oil and filter, but now there is no spark or fuel being delivered, so it appears the HES needs replaced too. I will do that next. Who knows if the bike will need more work after he new HES is installed. It is doubtful that I will invest much more into this bike, as I am not at all overjoyed with BMW's engineering on this bike after changing out the fuel pump prior to this incident. I am sure that this overheat was equal to many miles off the life of the bike.  

 

You can rip on me for being an idiot and causing this if you want, but in my opinion, this bike was a piss poor engineering design for what was probably $10K bike new. 

 

  Not an Oilhead fan

 

   

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, WR Rider said:

This is basically a post to vent. Caution proceeding if you are a died in the wool BMW fan. 

 

Imagine inheriting one of these bikes from your brother in pristine condition with 51K miles on it and seeing it nearly burn itself up just from idling at 1800rpms for 10-15 minutes. I wasn't warned never to let the bike idle with the starting circuit on and I didn't have the manual to read that information either. I have owned numerous air cooled off road bikes and I have never heard of a machine that tried to destroy itself so quickly. Temperature was only around 75F and the bike ran about 10- 15 minutes before it shut off and I am assuming that is because the HES is now toast. I was on may way out to shut it down when I heard it quit running.  

 

Yes, I probably shouldn't have taken a phone call after I started the bike, but why would I have ever thought it would get so damn hot so quickly just from idling?  The bike got so hot that the powder coated paint on the heads and part of the cylinders turned gold from burning the paint. The sight glass turned milky white from the heat of the oil. I have never felt heat come off of a machine like that ever before just from idling and I have been around a lot of toys over the years. 

 

I changed the sight glass, oil and filter, but now there is no spark or fuel being delivered, so it appears the HES needs replaced too. I will do that next. Who knows if the bike will need more work after he new HES is installed. It is doubtful that I will invest much more into this bike, as I am not at all overjoyed with BMW's engineering on this bike after changing out the fuel pump prior to this incident. I am sure that this overheat was equal to many miles off the life of the bike.  

 

You can rip on me for being an idiot and causing this if you want, but in my opinion, this bike was a piss poor engineering design for what was probably $10K bike new. 

 

  Not an Oilhead fan

 

   

Afternoon WR Rider

 

That is a difficult thing to swallow for sure. Unfortunately that is what happens with a BMW 1100 air/oil cooled engine with no air flow over the exhaust pipes, cylinder heads, & oil cooler. The catalytic converter tight underneath doesn't help the heat thing either.   

 

It was published in the owners (riders) manual to not do that but that is no help if you didn't get a manual with the motorcycle. 

 

Are you sure it is the HES?  Check fuse # 5 & #6 for being blown. It's possible all that heat burnt an under tank wire & caused a short to ground. 

 

The big thing is that you replaced the sight glass as those can blow out while riding after a thermal event like you experienced. 

 

With all that heat is there any damage to rubber boots between the throttle bodies & the cylinder heads?

 

Also make sure the o2 sensor pig tail running above the exhaust isn't burnt or shorted (if in question remove the CCP from the fuse box then try to start the engine). 

 

If fuse 5 or 6 is blown then unplug the o2 sensor to see if the fuse blowing goes away. 

[Hosstage]

None of what happened is BMW's or the bike's fault. 

[Red]

In 2018 I sold my 96 RT to a 20 something kid.  113K miles on the odo.  Regular and preventative maintained to the nth degree.  Never had an ever had an issue.  Told this kid, DO NOT let this bike idle.  Start and go.  Well after several months I called to give him some extra stuff for the bike that I wasn't going to need with my new 2018.  He told me he was in the habit of using the kill switch to shut off rather than normal sequence.  Of course got distracted one day and never actually turned it off.  It ran the batt low.  Got it started in the garage and let it run 'to charge the battery'.  Well, got distracted on his phone of course.  The bike idled in the garage with poor ventilation for 'a long time' and 'it stopped running'.  Idiot.  I quit communicating at that point.

[Lowndes]

WR Rider,

 

Yes, these machines have their foibles.  Sorry you had to "find out the hard way" about this idling issue on this bike.  It seem like every model BMW has ever come out with has some sort of Achilles Heel (or two, or three).   Fortunately, they are fairly well known and sorted, even on the newer models.  This forum is a very good source of knowledge on these bikes.

 

The "Police" version of the 1100, the R1100RTP, has a fan on the oil cooler, much like the fan on the radiator in a car to help with this.

 

NOT to dissuade you, but to prevent another surprise bad experience, you should check the brake lines and the fuel lines in the tank to make sure they have been upgraded/replaced.  They both "age out" and fail, regardless of the miles.

 

Follow Dirtrider's suggestions carefully and I'd bet you will get everything resolved quickly and thoroughly.  

 

If the HES is the problem, OR, if it has not already been addressed by your brother, it is overdue for the fix.  There is a guy in Canada, GSAddict, that rewires the HES with high temperature wire (it's the insulation on the wires that fail, it gets very brittle and falls off the wires inside the sheath and they short out, but the sensors themselves seldom fail).  Reto does excellent work and replaces the wiring, the sheath, and the connector.

 

Reto Camenisch

arbcon@sunshinecoast.ca

 

Before:

 

After:

 

Good luck with the repairs, and post some pics of the bike!!

 

[Hosstage]

I don't think there is a motorcycle manufacturer out there that recommends long idle times, and actually discourage it, even in extremely cold weather. I read on here where a lot of people let their bike idle 5-10 minutes to "get it warm". I will bet the manual does not encourage this practice. If that much idle time is needed in order for the bike to run right, then something else is wrong.

HD recommends 20 seconds to one minute, then ride with light to normal throttle application for a few miles before using heavy throttle application. Extremely cold weather allows 1 full minute of idle time, maybe up to two, but I would have to read my manual again to confirm.

Automobiles with sophisticated cooling systems do not recommend long idle to warm the car, even in winter.

[46nto]

I’ve had a 1980 Honda CM400T, a 1999 Buell M2 Cyclone (never should’ve sold it!), a 2002 Buell S3T (never got along with that bike, couldn’t get the fuel injection dialed in) & currently an 04 R1150RT -all air cooled bikes & would never let an air cooled bike idle more than a minute or two & sure as hell wouldn’t have left any bike running out of my sight for that long. 
 

it sucks for sure & i’m sorry you caused this kind of damage to your bike but rather than slamming BMW’s design & engineering, take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror & accept responsibility for what you’ve done. This is solely your mistake, not your brother’s & BMW’s. Own the fault, learn from it & move on. 

[King Herald]

The thing I find odd is the oil coolers are 2” from the header pipes, directly above, so sat in traffic, or moving very slowly, the coolers are effectively bathed in red hot air rising from the exhaust.

Mind you, the only time my bike has got hot enough that it starts to sound clattery was in an immigration queue in a sea port in France, one red hot summer. Our line was moving 15 feet, stop for a minute or two, while papers were checked, then move 15 feet, etc etc. Eventually I switched it off and just pushed the bike. 

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, King Herald said:

The thing I find odd is the oil coolers are 2” from the header pipes, directly above, so sat in traffic, or moving very slowly, the coolers are effectively bathed in red hot air rising from the exhaust.

Mind you, the only time my bike has got hot enough that it starts to sound clattery was in an immigration queue in a sea port in France, one red hot summer. Our line was moving 15 feet, stop for a minute or two, while papers were checked, then move 15 feet, etc etc. Eventually I switched it off and just pushed the bike. 

Afternoons King Herald

 

The big difference is idle RPM's , at base curb idle they will idle a long time without damage. It's that raised  high fast idle thing that produces the heat. You probably raised the engine RPM every time you moved it that 15 feet.

 

I would have to find it but at one time (I believe)  BMW said you could idle (curb idle) the 1100 for up to 20 minutes during service.

 

But if you go 5 minutes on a warm 1100RT at fast idle they will fry the plastics above the exhaust pipes. (BMW didn't say this, we all say this)

 

You want to hear a BMW boxer get hot & start to rattle then go get an oil cooled GS  boxer stuck in knee deep sugar sand then try riding it out for 300 feet. That thing will sound like an oil barrel full of chains in a cement mixer.  

[WR Rider]

23 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon WR Rider

 

That is a difficult thing to swallow for sure. Unfortunately that is what happens with a BMW 1100 air/oil cooled engine with no air flow over the exhaust pipes, cylinder heads, & oil cooler. The catalytic converter tight underneath doesn't help the heat thing either.   

 

It was published in the owners (riders) manual to not do that but that is no help if you didn't get a manual with the motorcycle. 

 

Are you sure it is the HES?  Check fuse # 5 & #6 for being blown. It's possible all that heat burnt an under tank wire & caused a short to ground. 

 

The big thing is that you replaced the sight glass as those can blow out while riding after a thermal event like you experienced. 

 

With all that heat is there any damage to rubber boots between the throttle bodies & the cylinder heads?

 

Also make sure the o2 sensor pig tail running above the exhaust isn't burnt or shorted (if in question remove the CCP from the fuse box then try to start the engine). 

 

If fuse 5 or 6 is blown then unplug the o2 sensor to see if the fuse blowing goes away. 

 

Hello Dirtrider

 

No, I am not sure it is the HES, but I have read posts about overheating can cause failure and it isn't getting fuel or spark. Fuses have been checked and are good.  

[WR Rider]

8 hours ago, Lowndes said:

WR Rider,

 

Yes, these machines have their foibles.  Sorry you had to "find out the hard way" about this idling issue on this bike.  It seem like every model BMW has ever come out with has some sort of Achilles Heel (or two, or three).   Fortunately, they are fairly well known and sorted, even on the newer models.  This forum is a very good source of knowledge on these bikes.

 

The "Police" version of the 1100, the R1100RTP, has a fan on the oil cooler, much like the fan on the radiator in a car to help with this.

 

NOT to dissuade you, but to prevent another surprise bad experience, you should check the brake lines and the fuel lines in the tank to make sure they have been upgraded/replaced.  They both "age out" and fail, regardless of the miles.

 

Follow Dirtrider's suggestions carefully and I'd bet you will get everything resolved quickly and thoroughly.  

 

If the HES is the problem, OR, if it has not already been addressed by your brother, it is overdue for the fix.  There is a guy in Canada, GSAddict, that rewires the HES with high temperature wire (it's the insulation on the wires that fail, it gets very brittle and falls off the wires inside the sheath and they short out, but the sensors themselves seldom fail).  Reto does excellent work and replaces the wiring, the sheath, and the connector.

 

Reto Camenisch

arbcon@sunshinecoast.ca

 

Before:

 

After:

 

Good luck with the repairs, and post some pics of the bike!!

 

Thank you for the info. I already ordered a new one. 

 

[WR Rider]

2 hours ago, 46nto said:

I’ve had a 1980 Honda CM400T, a 1999 Buell M2 Cyclone (never should’ve sold it!), a 2002 Buell S3T (never got along with that bike, couldn’t get the fuel injection dialed in) & currently an 04 R1150RT -all air cooled bikes & would never let an air cooled bike idle more than a minute or two & sure as hell wouldn’t have left any bike running out of my sight for that long. 
 

it sucks for sure & i’m sorry you caused this kind of damage to your bike but rather than slamming BMW’s design & engineering, take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror & accept responsibility for what you’ve done. This is solely your mistake, not your brother’s & BMW’s. Own the fault, learn from it & move on. 

I agree and I have owned the mistake. 

[9Mary7]

FWIW, a CHP officer (who will remain unnamed) left his State owned FXR-P idling on its side stand to "charge " a weak battery while he went inside for his morning shift briefing....... When he came out it was seized...."predictable is preventable"

[JamesW]

I don't ride my '93 R1100RSL much at all because of traffic out there in today's world and so much stop and go as well as really bad driving exhibited by way more people now than ever before.  Then there is the extremely hot weather one has to contend with.  Today's world is not likely to be kind to older BMWs.  These old oilheads are just not in their element today much at all, unfortunately.  This is especially true where I live that being western Oregon.  I won't drive much less ride a motorcycle on I5 between Eugene and Portland, just no way.  I5 now carries more traffic than I95 on the east coast.  Just unbelievable!   This is just not the Oregon I used to know and love.

 

 

[Hosstage]

13 hours ago, 9Mary7 said:

FWIW, a CHP officer (who will remain unnamed) left his State owned FXR-P idling on its side stand to "charge " a weak battery while he went inside for his morning shift briefing....... When he came out it was seized...."predictable is preventable"

A friend of mine went to his girlfriend's house to pick something up real quick, left his Sportster idling in the driveway since he was coming right back out to take off. Ended up knocking boots for a while, came out to the idling bike with red hot glowing exhaust pipes. It never ran right after that. Whoops!

[syntorz]

8 hours ago, Hosstage said:

...went to his girlfriend's house...

...Ended up knocking boots for a while...

I don't understand, please elaborate 

[Hosstage]

6 minutes ago, syntorz said:

I don't understand, please elaborate 

Let's just say she gave him an offer he couldn't refuse...

[syntorz]

9 minutes ago, Hosstage said:

Let's just say she gave him an offer he couldn't refuse...

Nice elaboration!