Engine cut out on a '04 RT

[Gammo]

Hi. New to the forum but have been browsing on and off for a while.

 

My issue. Whilst riding to work a couple of mornings ago, I managed to hit one of the many potholes in my local area. Normally everything is fine (albeit it my arms taking the brunt of the impact) but this time it led to he engine suddenly cutting out and me coming to a gradual stop.

 

I've got power from the battery as most things work (lights, horn, instrument panel, etc) but the one thing that has stopped is the fuel pump. When I turn the key to off and then on again, the usual 'whirring' of the fuel pump kicking in is no longer there - the fuel level doesn't show straight away either but it does slowly creep up.

 

The recovery company mechanic said that all is fine with the fuse and the relay switch so what would be the problem that I have got and is it something simple that I can fix or is it just best to have it looked at professionally? 

 

All help is greatly appreciated.

 

 

[The Fabricator]

Suspect the wiring at the key switch.  Try jiggling the wires with the key  in the "On" position, watch for blinking dash lights.

Also, check battery terminal bolts are tight.

[King Herald]

I’d look at the side stand switch. 

Or maybe the kill switch on the bars, maybe you hit it with your thumb while bouncing. 

I’m guessing you’re in the U.K. mentioning pot holes? 
 

 

[dirtrider]

7 hours ago, Gammo said:

Hi. New to the forum but have been browsing on and off for a while.

 

My issue. Whilst riding to work a couple of mornings ago, I managed to hit one of the many potholes in my local area. Normally everything is fine (albeit it my arms taking the brunt of the impact) but this time it led to he engine suddenly cutting out and me coming to a gradual stop.

 

I've got power from the battery as most things work (lights, horn, instrument panel, etc) but the one thing that has stopped is the fuel pump. When I turn the key to off and then on again, the usual 'whirring' of the fuel pump kicking in is no longer there - the fuel level doesn't show straight away either but it does slowly creep up.

 

The recovery company mechanic said that all is fine with the fuse and the relay switch so what would be the problem that I have got and is it something simple that I can fix or is it just best to have it looked at professionally? 

 

All help is greatly appreciated.

 

 

Morning   Gammo

 

It could be a lot of things electrical from the above mentioned side stand switch to?????__ with key ON see what your dash RID does when you move the side stand up & down?

 

Or some other electrical connection or relay that came loose in the big hit. 

 

Or even a fuel pump problem, I have seen the fuel pump outlet fitting actually brake off the fuel pump inside the fuel tank after a big hit. The thing with this is: the fuel pump usually still runs it just can't pump any fuel out of the tank. It will probably sound lighter  as it won't be making any pressure to promote pump noise. 

 

Can you hear the fuel pump run at first key on? It only runs for a couple of seconds at key on then doesn't run again until engine cranking. You might have to wait a short time between key-on's to hear it come on again.

 

I don't know how much you want to get involved but you probably need to check for 12v power to the green wire at the fuel injectors & fuel pump connector. (2 seconds of 12v at key on then full time 12v during engine cranking).

 

If you have 12v to the fuel pump  then you probably need to do a return line fuel flow test (see if you have fuel coming out of the rear fuel return line hose at key on (2-3 seconds) then again during engine cranking.  

 

Also make sure the kill switch is tuned on & the dash looks normal at key on.

 

You might also recheck or just replace the #5 & #6 fuses, those can look OK to the eye but be fractured & not conducting 12v power.  Easy check before going in deep.

 

Otherwise you are just going to have to use a 12v test light or DC voltmeter then start checking circuits for opens, or lack of 12v, then do the same for corresponding grounds.  

 

[Gammo]

Just to clarify, I didn't come off the bike (luckily - just didn't see the pothole as it was dark and shaded from a street lamp by a tree).

 

- Working from the key switch. When I put the key in, the dash lights as normal with the exception of the fuel indicator that doesn't go straight to what's in the tank....it just gradually 'fills' the screen.

- There's no sound at all from the fuel pump kicking in for a couple of seconds.

- I'll check over some of the suggestions above but I've a feeling it'll be going to a BMW workshop (I just don't have the knowledge or time to tinker with things these days) 🙁🙁

 

One thing i did notice - the clock. At the exact time that the engine cut out/hitting the pothole, so did the clock, briefly, so it would suggest that something happened battery power wise (as if I'd disconnected the battery). The battery, being where it is, is already hard to see/get to but the mechanic reckons 'everything looks good connection wise' (could he be wrong?). I'd have thought though that if it was a battery connection issue, why does everything still work and did work straight away after it had stopped? 🤔

[Gammo]

A little update but help still very great fully appreciated.

 

Finally a day off since the breakdown and ive managed to grab some time to take a look at a few things. One thing that both myself and the mechanic noticed towards the end of the recovery was the smell of petrol but as it wasn't leaking (either road side or on the trailer), we thought nothing of it.

 

Today, I've put the key in and turned but still no pump kicking in so I tried the ignition button only to see petrol coming from a tube behind the fairing - each time I pressed, each time fuel came out. I've popped the fairing off and saw that it was coming from a fuel line from the tank on the side of the bike. The connection itself looks like a push connection (white/cream that pushes inwards) but as it was I had to drain the tank (as petrol wasn't stopping coming out). Once emptied, turning the key the pump whirred away as it did before the breakdown.

 

The bike is booked in for repair but what is it most likely to be (because the pump wasn't working, it has been booked in to get a full diagnostic check which I think it no longer needs).

 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Gammo said:

A little update but help still very great fully appreciated.

 

Finally a day off since the breakdown and ive managed to grab some time to take a look at a few things. One thing that both myself and the mechanic noticed towards the end of the recovery was the smell of petrol but as it wasn't leaking (either road side or on the trailer), we thought nothing of it.

 

Today, I've put the key in and turned but still no pump kicking in so I tried the ignition button only to see petrol coming from a tube behind the fairing - each time I pressed, each time fuel came out. I've popped the fairing off and saw that it was coming from a fuel line from the tank on the side of the bike. The connection itself looks like a push connection (white/cream that pushes inwards) but as it was I had to drain the tank (as petrol wasn't stopping coming out). Once emptied, turning the key the pump whirred away as it did before the breakdown.

 

The bike is booked in for repair but what is it most likely to be (because the pump wasn't working, it has been booked in to get a full diagnostic check which I think it no longer needs).

 

Morning  Gammo

 

That is the fuel return hose (low pressure) if it is (was disconnected) that could drive the fuel pressure high. 

 

If it is broken then it could leak from both sides if the key is on or if the engine cranking.

 

If leaking from the rear side then that can leak like crazy but shouldn't effect the engine starting or the fuel pump running. (but with a dangerous fuel leak) 

 

To give you much more info we need to know if  was just disconnected or if it is actually broken? 

[Gammo]

The picture is exactly as I found them when I removed the fairing - just wondered why they don't officially connect (ie, no clips etc) as the cream part with the hole seems to be the only thing joing both ends together.

 

When I pressed the ignition for the first time, the fuel seemed to be coming from the left side of that upper pipe (but I was looking from the front so that could be wrong). 

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, Gammo said:

The picture is exactly as I found them when I removed the fairing - just wondered why they don't officially connect (ie, no clips etc) as the cream part with the hole seems to be the only thing joing both ends together.

 

When I pressed the ignition for the first time, the fuel seemed to be coming from the left side of that upper pipe (but I was looking from the front so that could be wrong). 

Afternoon Gammo

 

Push the metal buttons in hard then pull the quick disconnect apart. 

 

Now inspect both sides for cracking or damage.

 

If they look OK then hold the button down again then push them together with a firm push. (if you don't hold the buttons in when snapping together the latch can start to re-latch early & that can nick "and damage" the internal "O" ring)

 

Next, release the button & give both sides another firm push together. 

 

Those quick disconnects were, either not seated fully together, or one (or both) are broken & need to be replaced. 

 

 

[Gammo]

I've had these suggested as a fix - any good or not suitable? 

[PatML]

Chiming in briefly. Those will mean a lot of faff every time you want to take the tank off. Also those worm drive clips are not good enough for the high pressures in the fuel lines. They will cut into the hoses and compromise them. The correct ones are only a couple of pounds.

 

The disconnects, once you get the hang of them are better. If you have any damaged ones you can get sturdy aftermarket ones from e.g. Motorworks (other dealers are available eg Motobins, James Sherlock) assuming you are in the UK as King Herald guessed (don't they have potholes abroad then?)

 

The disconnects are in a bit of a fiddly position to get big unwieldy hands in. To make things easier, once you have pushed the metal clip release things in, they latch so you don't need to keep them pressed as you push the two halves back together. Once you have them apart you'll be able to see what I mean. Once pushed all the way in the latch bit clicks and you know you have got them right. I don't think they latch to pull apart so you will need to keep the pressure on until you have started to pull them apart least the first few mm.

 

When putting new ones on, make sure you put the males and females on in such a way that you won't accidentally connect the wrong pairs.

 

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

Pat

[Redfoxx]

10 hours ago, Gammo said:

A little update but help still very great fully appreciated.

 

Finally a day off since the breakdown and ive managed to grab some time to take a look at a few things. One thing that both myself and the mechanic noticed towards the end of the recovery was the smell of petrol but as it wasn't leaking (either road side or on the trailer), we thought nothing of it.

 

Today, I've put the key in and turned but still no pump kicking in so I tried the ignition button only to see petrol coming from a tube behind the fairing - each time I pressed, each time fuel came out. I've popped the fairing off and saw that it was coming from a fuel line from the tank on the side of the bike. The connection itself looks like a push connection (white/cream that pushes inwards) but as it was I had to drain the tank (as petrol wasn't stopping coming out). Once emptied, turning the key the pump whirred away as it did before the breakdown.

 

The bike is booked in for repair but what is it most likely to be (because the pump wasn't working, it has been booked in to get a full diagnostic check which I think it no longer needs).

 

 

Looks like one fitting is broken, replacement ones are metal on both sides. My 04RT I had a slight leak from one when they were plastic. I dont remember where I purchased the metal ones (Beemer bonyard or Motorworks UK). They also come with additional o rings havent needed yet.  I would also look into oetiker clamps and crimper. I first used Fuel injector clamps but but having all the screws there, they where always rubbing on something and replaced with Oetiker clamps. Also while your there check the lines for cracks, they are 20+ years old. Easier to do now while replacing connectors. I saved one connector I believe it was a male, put 2 feet of cheap hose on it. You can plug in and drain your tank down to about a gallon.  Makes it lighter to pick up when you remove and less messy than trying to pour out, siphin out.