my dealer is charging me $175/hr labour on my US bike - BMW Canada in Chrisis

[smiller]

He also commented that all of the OEM's are lobbying the government to restrict or ban imports of vehicles 15 yrs or newer to try and correct this problem.

I wonder what the stated rationale for the law would be... 'To allow manufacturers to charge higher prices to Canadian citizens than US citizens'? Hmmm... I think they'll probably phrase it a little differently... will likely have something to do with 'protecting' you...

[marcopolo]

There's that litle thing called NAFTA.

[smiller]

There's that litle thing called NAFTA.

But doesn't NAFTA only cover things that are manufactured in North America? If a product is imported from Germany to the US, can it then necessarily be freely re-exported from the US to Canada under NAFTA?

[marcopolo]

There's that litle thing called NAFTA.

But doesn't NAFTA only cover things that are manufactured in North America? If a product is imported from Germany to the US, can it then necessarily be freely re-exported from the US to Canada under NAFTA?

 

Good question, to which I don't know the answer.

[Quinn]

Maybe it's fair because we pay higher drug prices in the US and aren't supposed to import them from Canada. Very strange and convoluted reasoning by the drug companies in that case also.

[John in VA]

NAFTA only applies to products manufactured in North America. BMW bikes are all built outside North America. I'd be curious how an American-built BMW SUV is handled if imported into Canada.

[marcopolo]

NAFTA only applies to products manufactured in North America. BMW bikes are all built outside North America. I'd be curious how an American-built BMW SUV is handled if imported into Canada.

 

Canada and the US have had "free trade" in vehicles since 1965, long before NAFTA. I think essentially that any vehicle can cross the border duty free, either way, so long as there's 50% North American content.

[harleyjohn45]

there just has to be an independent shop in vancover. who needs the dealer. parts are available over the internet. after the warrenty is out, i never darken their door again. why should you be the only loyal party. my 2c

[BCRider]

NAFTA only applies to products manufactured in North America. BMW bikes are all built outside North America. I'd be curious how an American-built BMW SUV is handled if imported into Canada.

 

When I came through the border yesterday the Canadian customs agency tried to charge me 6% duty on the RT because it was not manufactured in North America. I had read on the customs website that there was no duty on any motorcycles regardless of origin and had a difficult time getting her to believe me. (Ever tried to argue with a customs official). In the end, after consulting with her co-workers she agreed I was right and away I went.

There is a 6% duty on any truck or car not manufactured in North America.

They even asked me where I had found the RT and then brought up the bmwst.com site and looked at the classified section to make sure I wasn't scamming them on the price I paid for it.

[11101110]

there just has to be an independent shop in vancover. who needs the dealer. parts are available over the internet. after the warrenty is out, i never darken their door again. why should you be the only loyal party. my 2c

 

If there isn't then it won't be long before there is one, with the stuff the dealers are pulling. I sorry you have to put up with this (insert four letter word here) .

[GoGo Gadget]

He also commented that all of the OEM's are lobbying the government to restrict or ban imports of vehicles 15 yrs or newer to try and correct this problem.

I wonder what the stated rationale for the law would be... 'To allow manufacturers to charge higher prices to Canadian citizens than US citizens'? Hmmm... I think they'll probably phrase it a little differently... will likely have something to do with 'protecting' you...

 

How HD phrase it when they handed their pet Congressmen the law to enact that restricted bikes over 700cc from being imported from Japan in the 80's?

[Sidmariner]

Congratulations on the purchase Tim.

 

You brought up a good tip for those coming to the border with their purchase. In my case, I had colour photocopies of the eBay pages showing the bike and the various eBay emails showing "You Have Bid", "You have won...please Pay", and "You have Paid". These along with copies of my emails to the owner very quickly cleared up any doubt in the Customs Officer's mind that the purchase was legitimate.

 

WRT to suggestions about stopping US imports of European bikes, it behooves us in Canada to remember that we quite happily bled the border states for years when our Loonie was 25 cents or more lower than their dollar. In the business I had, I was selling NISSAN outboard motors for nearly $200 less (in $US equivalent) than my competition in Seattle could sell them for, a significant sum when they cost less than $2000. Our folks in the Auto business were selling pickup trucks by the thousands to Americans because of the huge price discrepancy. What goes around comes around.

 

The entire Canadian retail industry will have to adjust quickly to the new reality of a strong Cdn dollar, flush out their old inventory and start competing aggessively if they want to survive. They can't continue to bamboozle us with the excuse that stuff costs more because of the exchange rate. I suspect our dollar will remain strong until the US administration changes and the war in Iraq is over. If dealers don't capitalize on this and drop the prices of their bikes, and if they don't start treating customers with some respect, then they deserve to fail.

[Smoky]

You are so right Sidmariner.

 

Five years ago when the dollar up here was weak, you couldn't find a late model low mileage pickup anywhere in the valley. They were all scooped up by brokers and sold in WA state.

 

I understand that HD has dropped their CDN prices, from pressure from CDN dealers. It will be interesting to see BMW prices at the January bike show in Vancouver.

[Lets_Play_Two]

If dealers don't capitalize on this and drop the prices of their bikes, and if they don't start treating customers with some respect, then they deserve to fail.

 

I doubt it is the dealers who need to drop the price. It is likely BMW who has not reacted to the stronger CDN$, or they are just trying to squeeze a little more out of Canada before they drop the prices. BMW looks at how many Euros they get from each sale...now that the Canadian $ has strengthened against the Euro ( I assume it has over the time it has gained on the US$...actually it has gained about 7% vs. the Euro during 2007---meaning they have had a defacto 7% price increase during 2007) they should drop the CDN$ price.

[Bob Palin]

Actually over the last year the Loonie has barely changed against the Euro at 70c (Check here) where it has gone from 89c to $1 against the US dollar so I wouldn't expect BMW to reduce their prices.

[Lets_Play_Two]

Actually over the last year the Loonie has barely changed against the Euro at 70c (Check here) where it has gone from 89c to $1 against the US dollar so I wouldn't expect BMW to reduce their prices.

 

From your table about .65 at 1/1/07 and about .71 at 9/21/07. That's about 10%.

[Bob Palin]

From your table about .65 at 1/1/07 and about .71 at 9/21/07. That's about 10%.

OK, so 'this year' it's 10% but 'over the last year' its nothing. Without knowing when the contracts were made it's impossible to know what price the Canadian BMW dealers agreed to pay.

[SANTA]

bmw canada and USA pay the same price in euros to der vaterland for the bike. (do you think that the usa would get a better deal especially since their bikes cost more to manufacture, what with mph speedos and canisters? our canadian bikes i beleive are closer to the euro models)

 

the difference is? that bmw usa has so many more sales over which to spread the corp overhead, and maybe the canadian side is gouging as well as not paying attention to the financial markets.

 

i agree it seems stupid th try and gouge the customer who just saved $5000.00 on the purchase, by the way the GS you bought was it new?

 

i fully expect to see revised pricing for the 2008 models, heck argyll motosport suggested that they won't even have 2008 models till after the jan motorcycle show. and don't be surprised if the US price goes up, and the canadian price will still be higher.

[Bob_Minor]

bmw canada and USA pay the same price in euros to der vaterland for the bike. (do you think that the usa would get a better deal especially since their bikes cost more to manufacture, what with mph speedos and canisters? our canadian bikes i beleive are closer to the euro models)

 

Not likely. OEM's set the price of their product in the currency of the local market. If that currency goes down, the OEM eats the difference until the product is re-priced. They don't do that very often and tend to hold it steady for a model year. The exceptions usually occur when the demand for a product is exceptionally strong. The fact that the list price of BMW's have remained constant through 2007 means BMW is loosing on US bikes but making some of it up on the Canadian models. The US will surely see some significant price increases for 2008.

[smiller]

The US will surely see some significant price increases for 2008.

Perhaps, but unless Canadian prices are significantly reduced at the same time (don't hold your breath) there will continue to be a big incentive for Canadians to purchase in the US. BMW US pricing couldn't possibly go up to current Canadian equivalents without decimating sales here.

[marcopolo]

The price the BMW mothership charges BMW Canada for a bike is only one of the factors -- albeit the major one -- in the bike's ultimate retail price in Canada. We're a much smaller market than the U.S., and don't have the same economies of scale in a number of areas. Having said that, I'm not sure how one explains away a price difference of about $4,800 on a new RT.

[SpaceKing]

 

i agree it seems stupid th try and gouge the customer who just saved $5000.00 on the purchase, by the way the GS you bought was it new?

No, it was used, and another factor in my decision to buy US along with the huge price discrepancy was that I would have to wait a year (!!) for a new one. Damned if you do and damned if you don't

b

[smiller]

No, it was used, and another factor in my decision to buy US along with the huge price discrepancy was that I would have to wait a year (!!) for a new one.

Gotta love it... we don't have one to sell you, and if we did would sell it for several thousand dollars more... but damn you if you go somewhere else..!

 

Still, it's sad that the dealers are ending up in the middle of all this. I don't understand what market (or artificial) forces are causing the pricing imbalance but it seems that it will have to correct itself soon or there won't be many BMW dealers left in Canada.

 

Out of curiosity, does a similar price discrepancy and limited availability exist for Japanese bikes?

[SANTA]

bmw canada and USA pay the same price in euros to der vaterland for the bike...

 

Not likely. OEM's set the price of their product in the currency of the local market. If that currency goes down, the OEM eats the difference until the product is re-priced. They don't do that very often and tend to hold it steady for a model year. The exceptions usually occur when the demand for a product is exceptionally strong. The fact that the list price of BMW's have remained constant through 2007 means BMW is loosing on US bikes but making some of it up on the Canadian models. The US will surely see some significant price increases for 2008.

 

Bob; are you sure, in al my past dealing internationally, nobody gave a toot about the buyers currency (well almost except for the USD) i don't see bmw pricing in C$, maybe $US, or Euro, if your customer has a big stick, you may fold and price in his currency, but canada is just another nondescript player, so i don't think bmw canada got to call any of the shots. more likely der mann said "u vil jump" and we said "how high?"

[Bob_Minor]

bmw canada and USA pay the same price in euros to der vaterland for the bike...

 

Not likely. OEM's set the price of their product in the currency of the local market. If that currency goes down, the OEM eats the difference until the product is re-priced. They don't do that very often and tend to hold it steady for a model year. The exceptions usually occur when the demand for a product is exceptionally strong. The fact that the list price of BMW's have remained constant through 2007 means BMW is loosing on US bikes but making some of it up on the Canadian models. The US will surely see some significant price increases for 2008.

 

Bob; are you sure, in al my past dealing internationally, nobody gave a toot about the buyers currency (well almost except for the USD) i don't see bmw pricing in C$, maybe $US, or Euro, if your customer has a big stick, you may fold and price in his currency, but canada is just another nondescript player, so i don't think bmw canada got to call any of the shots. more likely der mann said "u vil jump" and we said "how high?"

 

It's the onlt way the OEM's can keep their prices realtively stable. If they changed prices as often as currency changes (daily) there would be total chaos in the maket place. All of the German importers are hurting in the US right now due the lousy dollar. If the US dealers had to absorb the loss in the dollar's buying power, they'd be gone in a hurry. And it's part of the reason why both the Chinese and Japanese try so hard to keep their currencies pegged to the dollar.

[BigAdv]

Porsche just dropped there pricing in CND an ave. of 10,000

[Tippy]

Anyone close to Calgary can have a US bike serviced at Anderwerks - an independent BMW specialist.

[SpaceKing]

I just called the dealer to see if their stance stands, and was told that for the time being they cannot service my bike at the regular rate. So I am pretty much done with John Valk BMW Ducati. This dealer will not see another penny of my money. All you Seattle guys, which of the two dealers in Seattle would you recommend that I should take my bike to? The bike is not running well and needs to have a BMW certified mechanic look at it and run it through their computer, do a compression test, etc.

Thanks in advance for a heads up.

b

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I think I finally figured it out. It is the U. Plain old labor is $85/hr but labour is $175/hr. It's the only thing that makes sense.

[bimmers]

get used to the real world of capitalism and market forces. Free trading currencies adjust to the economy they are in and so the USD has fallen like a rock. Often this is countered with inflation that lets prices go up but since our market is so competitive and open the pressure is there and no space for increases.

Canucks should just get over here and buy their bikes as long as there are no duties levied on them.

These same bikes cost some 50% more still in some european coutnries and imports are charged duties to the same rate. The market forces will take care of this as long as the price rigging is not allowed. Healthcare is already rigged in Canada so why not bike repair rates, and outlaw private independents like is done in healthcare.

This is a huge problem for BMW and others. THey are loosing money or getting a lot less margins in US than elsewhere. That is why manufacturing is moving here also. Balance the currency exposure. Income and cost in same currency and so on.

I feel for the canadians and I have this issue in my business as well. My products are a lot less in the US than in Canada, so I get a better margin in Canada and I am happy, as long as other imports do not start discounting, and local suppliers are "allowed" to stay alive.

 

bear (beer) and grin

[BCRider]

Ben, I was just at Pacific Yamaha/BMW in Richmond last Saturday and they were not charging a premium labour rate for working on a US bike.

[bakerzdosen]

which of the two dealers in Seattle would you recommend that I should take my bike to?

Well, there is Ride West and South Sound. I've had service done at South Sound and have no complaints (other than the oil change was VERY expensive IMHO, but that's how much it is at most dealers... I've never heard bad things about Ride West other than the fact that they are usually quite backed up. The only problem with South Sound is that they are anywhere from 45 minutes to 1.5 hours south of Ride West depending on traffic.

[SpaceKing]

I think I finally figured it out. It is the U. Plain old labor is $85/hr but labour is $175/hr. It's the only thing that makes sense.

That's very funny Ed. As if I don't have enough injury, now you are making fun of my Canadian spelling. Just to get even, my business has put up a sign, "As of today we no longer accept American dollars."

Been waiting for about 15 years to put that one up.

b

[SpaceKing]

The only problem with South Sound is that they are anywhere from 45 minutes to 1.5 hours south of Ride West depending on traffic.

Hm . . ride west it may have to be then. I am going to give Pacific a try since they are still charging the old rate. I will see what kind of reception I get there before I bring my bike in though. Last thing I want is someone to act like they are doing me a favour (that's "favor" for you Ed ) by allowing me to help them make a profit.

B

[Amac]

 

Psssst.

[SpaceKing]

Um, I don't think so. At least not yet. But I wouldn't say never. Maybe I should just go out and (HORRORS!! ) test ride a few different models, something I did not do before buying my last two beemers. Never pictured myself owning a different bike until this crap came along.

(Now, that's not really you on that Uly is it?)

[John in VA]

Class Action Suit Claims Auto Cos Inflated Prices In Canada

 

"... he automakers agreed not to honor warranties for vehicles purchased in the U.S., forcing Canadian consumers who wanted a manufacturer's warranty to pay 25% to 35% more on average for a vehicle in Canada..."

 

So much for Free Market theories.

 

 

http://www.fxstreet.com/news/forex-news/article.aspx?StoryId=db040402-f380-4a86-9487-f875135b2647

[SpaceKing]

"... he automakers agreed not to honor warranties for vehicles purchased in the U.S., forcing Canadian consumers who wanted a manufacturer's warranty to pay 25% to 35% more on average for a vehicle in Canada..."

I think there is a lot of sh*t that is going to come down the pipe from the price inequities of almost everything. Retailers who have hiden behind the imbalance in the value of the currency are now getting exposed. It is all over the news up here. Like Rodney Dangerfield says "We can't get no respect".

[John in VA]

I think there is a lot of sh*t that is going to come down the pipe from the price inequities of almost everything. Retailers who have hiden behind the imbalance in the value of the currency are now getting exposed. It is all over the news up here. Like Rodney Dangerfield says "We can't get no respect".

 

It's crazy because many "U.S." cars are built in Canada and imported into the U.S. For the Canadian market, is GM importing Canadian-built cars, then "adding value" and exporting them back to Canada?

[John in VA]

http://cars.about.com/b/a/216858.htm

[Amac]

(Now, that's not really you on that Uly is it?)

 

Nah...I don't look nearly that good. But my bike does!

[SpaceKing]

I just talked to the new service manager at Pacific Yamaha BMW. There is a new owner there and it is the first time in my 3 years of beemer ownership that I feel I have been treated like royalty. "When can you schedule me in?" "Well what suits you? "And do you need a loaner bike?"

So I am going in on Wednesday and really looking forward to forging a new relationship with someone who respects, values and WANTS my business. It is a 45 minute drive and on the other side of the city, but like I told Ian the new service manager, I will GLADLY make that drive to do business with someone who wants me to come and be there.

I will keep you all posted. I am still kind of in shock because this gentleman has none of the snobby superior attitude that I have come to expect.

[magnum]

Hey SpaceKing

 

I am in Fort Langley. PM me if you want to come out on the weekend and hook your bike up to my error code reader. I am not a shop - just a fellow BMW rider who does not like being dealer dependant.

 

I know all about your U.S. bike not being welcome at John Valk. I have three American BMWS: 04 1150RTP, an 05 1200gs and an 06 F650 Dakar. Fortunately not all Canadian dealers have BMW Canada's arrogance.

 

 

You will like dealing with Pacific. They have always treated me well. They also do a lot of service work for Bellingham police.

[SpaceKing]

Magnum, that's a great and generous offer, and I will take you up on it. This would be the hardest thing to give up about being a beemer owner - I love this community.

I am excited about going out to Pacific - I shouldn't be but I am.

Thanks again, Magnum

 

Now ask yourself, punk, did you put 6 gallons in the tank at that last fillup or 5? Feeling lucky, punk?

[Chipit]

Your Vancouver dealer has a very bad reputation!!! A friend from Calgary required tires and left his bike with John Vauch?? and was forced to pay double the cost of the tires in Calgary. Unfortunate that the occasional dealer can affect the entire organization, but it can!! I strongly encourage you to deal in the US.

[keithb]

Ben

Sounds like things are getting worked out. Hope the new dealer meets your expectations and appreciates your business. Be sure to let us know when the other dealership shuts the doors so we can all celebrate with you.

[pbbeck]

Keith,

 

Forget flying. Let's ride up together.

[SpaceKing]

You South Cal guys are a force to be reckoned with. Come for the tech day, stay for the weather.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not.

 

If I wasn't so freakin' busy with granola, I would head up the effort for at tech day next May. If any locals are reading this and some of them think they can teach anything from valve adjust to rear fluid replacement, let them speak now and maybe we can hold a learning day up here and strike a blow for the little guy, er . . , the independant guy, just to show that they need us more than we need them when it comes to servicing these machines.

Anybody?

Middle to early May next year, if we start now I think it could happen.

ben

[KMG_365]

You South Cal guys are a force to be reckoned with. Come for the tech day, stay for the weather.

 

Not.

Middle to early May next year, if we start now I think it could happen.

ben

If it works into my schedule . . . IN!!

[SpaceKing]

Now Jamie, if you show up I guarantee you a sold out venue. (It's like booking a rock star - think of what it would mean to your poor Northern cousins to have a BMWST legend like you come here!! Reminds me of Oprah's recent visit to Alert Bay in the Northwest Territories or somewhere like that - just people walking around slack jawed for the 2 or 3 hours she was there. That could be us!!