How to patch a tubeless tire...?

[bobbybob]

This isn't about whether you think its a good idea or bad idea. My almost new rear PRII (07 RT) just got punctured, center of tread, by a sliver of sharp rock. The inside of the tire is covered by a sort of honeycomb design of slightly raised ridges. It would seem these would make it more difficult for a patch to stick. Does anyone have experience with patching this type surface--or a smooth surface? I have tube-type repair patches but am sure these are not for the inside of tubeless tires. Should I use a regular auto tire patch? Should it be plugged also? If so, what type of plug? Help...anyone?

(Would like to hear from someone who has actually done this, not just an opinion.)

[flat_twin]

You need a tubeless tire plug. There are a couple different types. The simpler one is just a short "rope" plug, that you brush with rubber cement and insert into the puncture from the outside with an appropriate tire plug tool.

Another type is more of a mushroom shaped plug. Some are inserted from the outside and others require breaking down the tire and repairing from the inside. Most would agree that the mushroom type is a better repair if you're inclined to continue to use the tire long term. I've used the rope type plugs to get by until I could get the tire replaced. I got some practice at this last month when I picked up a roofing nail in my rear tire.

 

 

[bobbybob]

To clarify my first post, I have removed the tire from the wheel and want to patch it from the inside---a "proper" patch, and plan to continue riding it. I have the "rope" plugs but don't consider them a "permanent" fix.

[TEWKS]

I know in big truck tires, they take a grinding wheel to the inside of the tire to smooth them out a bit before patching.

 

Pat

[Tank]

I know in big truck tires, they take a grinding wheel to the inside of the tire to smooth them out a bit before patching.

 

Pat

 

 

 

That is exactly what I've done

[bobbybob]

Tank--what tire did you do this to, and how did you patch it?

[tomk99r11]

Plug it and ride. Unless the puncture is in the sidewall, go for it.

[bobbybob]

Thanks--thats what I intend to do. But I'm not sure what type of "plugs" to use---are there special ones for a permanent fix, or just use the kind for "on-the-road" repair? Or would it be better to use a rope plug plus a inside patch.

 

Like I said--I'm looking for first hand info. It seems that everyone has a opinion, but so far no one has said "I used this patch/plug/etc."

[LJR]

plug-patch

[John Ranalletta]

Tried to patch a friend's Metzler. The inner surface of the tread area was molded into an "alligator" or waffle pattern. Seemed intentional to discourage patching. Grinding a flat spot would seem advisable.

[bobbybob]

I assume you mean the patch wouldn't hold...? That is the same type surface I'm dealing with.

[John Ranalletta]

No way a patch can seal the waffle pattern. I'd tried to grind the waffle pattern smooth over an area a little bit bigger than the patch. Probably a dremel tool or stone on a power drill would work. What'd ya got to loose?

[JR356]

Here is a website with photos and a how to,shows how the pattern on the inside of the tire was buffed out.

http://www.geocities.com/sl_mille/general/patch.html

 

The plug portion of the plug patch mentioned above in other posts is threaded out thru the puncture hole after reaming out the hole with the special reaming tool contained in most tire repair kits.

 

JR356

 

 

[bobbybob]

Thanks JR--that is what I'm looking for!

[flars]

I did this (i.e. buffed it smooth, put universal cement from NAPA on it, and put on a radial patch) on a Pilot Road and then ran 8000 miles on it.

[bobbybob]

Thanks FLARS! I am heading to NAPA as I type!!

[Unhofliche_Gesundheit]

universal cement ...?

you want *vulcanizing* cement.

[markgoodrich]

Bob, take it to your local tire store. They'll probably do it for you. I just had a tire on my car fixed with the inside "patch plug." Depending on your proclivities, it's either much easier or no fun to do it this way.

[bobbybob]

Mark, thanks for the suggestion, but I already fixed it with a radial patch and plugged it too. I have a Nomar so R&R the tire is not an issue. FYI, I kinda doubt you can find a tire dealer that will patch a moto tire. When I had a flat on the road in Pa., I was unable to get anyone to touch it. Liability issues.

[GordonB]

And as I learned today if you have someone who will patch moto tires they may not patch it if there isn't sufficient tread remaining. I was at 40% and got a big no.

[bobbybob]

40% is almost half the tread...?? That doesn't make sense--maybe they just didn't want to patch it, period. If it was down to the wear indicators I could understand. After patching mine today, it makes me wonder--why the big to-do about patching by some folks?

[ianboydsnr]

tyre places dont like to patch tyres because its more work and less profit than replacing, pure and simple

[travelingman]

Thats most likely is one of the reasons but I would say the main reason is liability . Thats why all the patch kit people say its just a temperary repair even when they know lots of folks have finished wearing a tire out thats patched . Me personally I would ride home on a repaired tire, an I carry a kit with me for that very reason . I attened my cousins wife funneral a couple of days she died form a head injury that she recieved when there bike high sided after a rear tire failure .

The tire did not fail because of a patch they ran over something.

So even though it makes me mad as heck to discard a tire with many miles left to go an people do it everyday. I just can,t make myself do it an if I carried a passenger no way .

I apologize I know your post was just to inquire on the proper way to repair the tire. I guess with her accident so fresh on my mind when I see anything about tires it gets my attention .

[EddyQ]

Last fall, when I had a similar incident, this website was very helpful.

 

I ended up bringing the tire to an auto tire repair center. The repair now has 3Kmi and I cannot find it anymore. BTW, with all the research I did, I am very nervious riding the tire to its end of life. It will get replaced soon.

 

Ed -

[GoldenK9]

Bobbybob,

 

Go to www.stopngo.com and check their product line. I not only carry one of their Plug'n Go kits, but I also got a set of "Plug

Patches" from them that I recently used to patch a Michelin Pilot

Road that I had previously plugged. They give good advice and quick service as well.

 

Safe Riding to 'Ya,

 

Ken

[Catbird]

For anyone interested in tire plugs, I've had very good results with this product...

 

[Selden]

I carried one of these kits for thousands of miles; when I finally needed to use it to repair a puncture, it failed miserably. I'm sticking with "string" plugs, available at any Walmart. Note that a T handle insertion tool is much easier on the hands than one with a handle like a screwdriver.

[Skywagon]

Free to a good home in Houston. You can practice your patching skills. I have a PR II with 1000 miles that came off the rear of my 1150RT. It has a hole dead center from a small bolt. Bigger than a nail, but not huge.

 

Anyone interested send me a PM. It is available for pickup only. Prefer to have it picked up at West Houston Airport off I 10 near Katy.

[elkroeger]

I have the "rope" plugs but don't consider them a "permanent" fix.

 

I'll disagree. I've put plugs in essentially new tires. They last until the tire is worn out. That's about as permanent as they need to be. (Just plain old monkey grip plugs available at any auto parts store...).

[bobbybob]

I got a lot of advice on proper patching, so on my first attempt to patch my PRII (for my RT) I put a plug into the hole and trimmed it per intructions, then also applied a flat rubber radial tire patch on the inside of the tire (after scuffing it up good per instructions). The patch adhered well and appeared to be the answer....NOT. After 45 miles on a hot freeway, I stopped to check the patch. Two things: 1) the plug was starting to come out of the hole 2) AIR was slowly leaking also. VERY slow but still.... So back to the garage, pulled the tire off and inspected the inside. The patch was still PERFECTLY in place. But in the center of the patch over where the hole would be, you could see a slight "dimple" in the patch. Those 36psi's had been pressing that tiny area of the patch down into the hole (pressing the plug out the other end) and I guess air was also seeping thru this highly-stressed "dimple" area. I peeled the patch loose (it was REALLY on good--no problem with sealing!).

 

I then went to NAPA and picked up a few of these "patch-plugs"--(go here and type in part # 7101643 to see it)

 

http://www.napaonline.com/NOLPPSE/(S(rdk0uezfgs4bzkitgqcxnbbn))/Welcome.aspx

 

It is a flat patch with a plug as integral part of it, and a metal sheath covering the plug part so you can press it thru the tire from the inside (remove the sheath after pushing thru). I then re-buffed the repair surface, applied the vulcanizing cement, and applied this patch/plug. After a 600 mile trip this weekend, holding just fine, plug is still flush with the tire surface. So the lesson was this: DIRTFT (do it right the first time!). A patch by itself is not the way and putting in a separate plug is pretty useless too.

 

To those who "consider a sticky rope plug permanent", I just hope your luck holds out!

 

And btw, I am not recommending anyone patch their tires--just relating what worked for me.

[g_frey]

I have heard bad things about patches, plugs, and sticky ropes. I admit that I use the sticky rope type but I check it about 2, 5, and 10 miles down the road at a minimum. So far so good using them but usually (thank god) the tire is near worn out anyway when I get a leak so I have no long term experience.

[bobbybob]

I agree--patches, plugs, and sticky ropes are emergency short-term fixes. But "plug-patches" seem to be a safer long-term fix that really works. I'll update this posting when either the tire needs replacing, or if the plug-patch doesn't hold up.

[ednowicki]

I can't see anything wrong with using a radial tire patch for small nail holes. Your tire puncture sounds like a larger (maybe irregular) hole. In that case I would have replaced the tire.

[bobbybob]

I can't see anything wrong with using a radial tire patch for small nail holes. Your tire puncture sounds like a larger (maybe irregular) hole. In that case I would have replaced the tire.

 

Ed, the hole was very small. It was a real effort to press the reaming tool thru it initially. The point I am trying to get across to folks, is that a flat patch *alone* may not hold. In my case, the air pressure was sufficient to depress the center of the patch down into the tiny little hole, and it leaked. As I stated, when I removed the tire to see what had happened, the patch was still in place, and very difficult to peel it off. But it had the depression in the center where it had been stretched by air pressure. The plug-patch has held fine, and if you were to take a *close* look at the 2 methods, I think you would agree with me.

 

My only reason for this follow up is to advise of my experience using a flat patch, vs. using a plug-patch. Do as you will--I don't recommend any of this to anyone. In fact, I think everyone should immediately replace any tire that leaks.

 

Edit: almost forgot to mention--the other reason not to use a flat patch by itself is you will leave the injury (i.e. hole) open on the tire's surface and small debris can get pressed into there until contacting the flat patch and puncturing it. The plug patch prevents this.