Changing Tires

[Twisties]

The Basic Options (for a pair of tires):

 

1. Purchase Tires from Dealer/Shop and have them mounted. Quote yesterday from local shop for PRII's: $453 if I bring in the wheels, $513 if I bring them a whole bike.

 

2. Purchase from a discounter and take wheels to a shop for mounting: Set of PRII's from SWMototire $311, +$40 - $60 for mounting and balancing two wheels, depending where I take them. Total $353 - $373

 

3. Purchase from a discounter and mount myself. $311. ($400 - $1000 one-time tool investment)

 

When I first decided to do my own mounting I just understood $513 went to $311. With two bikes, I thought 3 tire changes would pay for the tools. Now, a couple of years into this business of changing tires several times a year, I've learned there are more choices, and also more about where the work is in the process.

 

Here is how I'm beginning to see things:

 

Removing and replacing wheels one at a time is not too big a deal. It's work, but it's predictable and trouble free. Removing both wheels simultaneously is more trouble, but with a jack and some blocks, should be doable. With two bikes, if I were going to run wheels in somewhere for mounting I'd want to get all four wheels off to make one trip... one wait in line, etc. That is starting to sound like it could be a trick, but could be done.

 

Mounting and demounting the tires is a touch and go sort of thing. We've had some tires go right off and on, and others have been a serious fight. If you can get the tires warm, it helps a lot, but you just can't always do that. Some are stiffer than others. You just never know. This is where the cussing and frustration comes in. It's also what you have all those specialty tools for, taking up space, and costing money. $20-$30 a wheel might be a bargain, if I didn't have to pull both (or all 4) wheels at once, drive somewhere (when they are open), and wait there.

 

So, the value of the tools is not the whole difference in price, but mostly just goes to the mounting/demount cost, and the difference in convenience time... which is more than offset by the frustrations of the work. Money wise, it's gonna take about ten tire changes pay for the tools, not 3, if you only consider the actual mount/demount cost. Still, we have more than broken even in 2 years of ownership with 2 bikes (actually more, call it 2 primary bikes). I believe we are about to mount 14th and 15th set shortly, and have also helped some other folks mount theirs.

 

All this is rattling around in my mind because every time I say there has been some struggle, I hear one thing: No-Mar. Oh yes, we have Mitche's Mojo bar, a Harbor Freight changer, and a Marc Parnes balancer.

 

What I'm wondering is if it would be worth changing over to the No-Mar setup, and which No-Mar setup I would need,

 

OR

 

Is it better to take wheels in to a shop for mount/demount,

 

OR

 

Should I keep doing it the way I have been.

 

 

[Mike O]

Jan,

 

I like that you've delineated the 3 possibilities in one single post. I've gone both route 1 and 2. And after seeing and reading your similar accounts about struggling to get new tires on the rims, I decided to avoid option 3.

 

As to your question, I've run a quick calculation, and for a single bike, it would take about 90,000 miles to pay for the tire change equipment. Tell me where I've miscalculated.

 

Option 2 (take SWmototires and wheels to a shop) - $373

Option 3 (do it yourself) - $311

Difference of $62 per set

Additional tire changing gear - $700 (I went median on your range)

 

$700/$62 = 11.3 tire changes to pay for equipment

Assuming 8000 miles per tire, is about 90k miles.

 

Lots of variables here that are going to vary from person to person, like how many tires you can amortize the equipment cost and your time and energy (waiting at shop, vs personal time in your garage, convenience of WHEN you get the tires changed, etc.

 

For me personally, and since the first set of tires come from the factory, I'd be looking at almost 100k on MY bike before I'd have an ROI on the tire changing equipment. For me, I'd opt for number 2 (which is what I do today).

 

YMMV

 

Mike O

[Matts_12GS]

I help Danny amortize his HF/mojo set up by doing 2-3 sets a year there with him.

 

I provide the extra special tools (wine or dark beers) and we do them together. I help him do his tires (2-3 a year) and then my 2-3 sets per year.

 

I keep swearing I'll buy my own set up for the absolute convenience, but just haven't pulled the trigger on it yet. I seem to recall many folks that have partnered on the set up to do tires like that, even a few clubs too. Seems that's where the real economy comes in.

[Twisties]

I think that is pretty close to right Mike. We get more like 6000 miles per set of tires, and our equipment cost almost $500 exactly, so probably more like 60,000 miles break even for a single bike, for us.

 

Here is another thought on the tire changing: Do you run the tires as long as you can? Taking option 2, at say $360 for a set of premium shoes mounted, vs. changing tires on the road using Option 1 at $513, wasting a day of a road trip getting to a shop, waiting, and perhaps altering plans to be at the shop when your appt is, looking at those two options, at what point would you change tires before setting out on a tour? We've pulled tires prematurely twice now because just looking at the money alone, it's clear that you can waste 30% of the tire life and break even. Then add the hassles of a road change... for trips where you think you could make it in one set of fresh tires, that sure seems like the way to go. That's what we'll be doing for the run to the UnRally. Should be 7000 - 7500 miles trip total.

 

But, in any event, this type of thinking is part of why our average tire life is low, because we haven't worried about getting the last bit of life from each set, given that most of our riding has been longish tours.

[GordonB]

And then there's this lower cost alternative to NoMar, to get you thinking, but still $500 overall. Cycle Hill

[smiller]

All this is rattling around in my mind because every time I say there has been some struggle, I hear one thing: No-Mar. Oh yes, we have Mitche's Mojo bar, a Harbor Freight changer, and a Marc Parnes balancer.

Then why do you want the Nomar I wonder? I don't think you'll really see a cost-effective performance increase over a HF changer equipped with Mojoblocks and a Mojobar (the combination of which would be under $300, perhaps saved in just the first few changes.)

 

Plus another factor for many is that low-cost installation services just aren't available for many who live outside of urban areas. Dealers here charge full shop labor and will only use their own (full list price) tires, so the cost difference between their services and a home change is quite significant.

 

In the case where you can easily get away with a $20-$30 labor charge and bring in your own tires then the economics get closer, but home changing still pulls ahead pretty quickly if you ride a lot. In that case it just depends on how much you ride and how much you value the convenience of being able to do the work on your own schedule instead of someone else's.

 

 

[SageRider]

I have gone option 3 with a Harbor Freight / Mitch Parnes set-up.

 

In my case, dealer charges about $120 to change tires. In addition, tire markup at dealer adds another $90 in excess of SW-moto or e-moto.

In addition to the financial difference, it is a one hour, 55 mile drive to the dealer one way.

 

And the dealer is not open Sundays and Mondays.

 

Added all together, I can change both tires on my bike in less time than it takes to drive to the dealer and back.

In addition, since I do not like to change tires on the road, I often will remove a set of tires that may have 3 to 4 K miles left on them and put on a set of high mileage tires when going on extended trips (Unrally VIII!). The 3-4K mile tires will get used up later on local / short rides.

 

My payback was easy. Less than 2 tire changes.

 

 

As far as HF vs. NoMar, I have been debating this myself, but am happy with the HF setup for now. Most difficulties are technique related and not equipment related.

[smiller]

Most difficulties are technique related and not equipment related.

Quite so.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

Jan, I just spent about half an hour coming up with a long answer to your questions. It wasn't worth the babbel I'd put down once I narrowed it to this:

 

This sounds like the question of someone who is tired of changing tires. If you are, then start taking them in for a while.

 

If you're not, then upgrade. Good tools are worth the price of admission and maybe even their weight in gold. Mitch's lever and the Marc Parnes balancer are a class act, but the HF setup leaves a lot to be desired.

[CarrotNC]

Like boney says, but with a twist: either take a break and use the shop for a while, or find someone with a NoMar and take it for a spin -- then decide on the upgrade value.

 

I find it relaxing to work on my equipment, and also take the time to look at other things while I'm in there. Rather hard to put a dollar figure on that...

[xbubblehead]

I just had my tires changed and after the cost I have been debating the same choices. I have been using the Michelin Pilot Road 2 which

I got 14k miles out of my first set, works out to a set a tires a year for me. Still debating if it would be worth the money.

 

I have been searching the site to find options and Mitch's Mojolever page give a list of items/tool needed for the job at a reasonable price.

[ianboydsnr]

The break even can be pretty low, good used tools have a value as well, we dont have a HF or access to Nomar, I do my changes using 3 tyre levers, some old shampoo bottles cut up to make rim protectors, 2 pieces of 2x4 timber, then 3 quick clamps, to make sure the tyre stays in the well of the wheel(essential on stiff tyres), tyre soap and a marc parnes balancer, takes about 40 mins all told to change a tyre, did a tourance rear on my 1150gs last Monday.

 

If there were a few around here that needed tyres changed, then I would probably buy a used garage tyre changer.

[bobbybob]

Jan, I have 3 bikes--2 RT's and an 07 F650GS. I recently bought the NoMar made Cycle Hill tire changer for $365 (see link below). NOTHING in my Moto-wrenching has been more satisfying than freeing myself from depending on dealers or others to mount tires for me. I order my tires from SW Moto and do it when I want to. I have already paid for the changer. When you have the right equipment, it's a piece of cake. As one other poster mentioned, its all in using the correct technique (kinda like riding a motorcycle ). And NoMar has a free DVD that shows you how to do it. But the satisfaction itself is worth the cost.

 

http://www.cyclehill-tirechanger-secure.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1

 

(One other benefit--if you get a puncture in a relatively new tire and don't want to shell out $180 for a replacement, you have the tools needed to patch it. Good luck finding a dealer who would do that for you.)

[Bill_Walker]

Coarsegold Kid uses the Cycle Hill tools with a Harbor Freight changer. I saw he and Jamie changing Jamie's tire at the NorCal meets SoCal in the Middle ride, and the "Xtra Hand Clamps" seemed to me to make things go easier. I didn't see any particular advantage to their lever over Mitch's, however. Lots of lube also seemed to very important.

[CoarsegoldKid]

Coarsegold Kid uses the Cycle Hill tools with a Harbor Freight changer. I saw he and Jamie changing Jamie's tire at the NorCal meets SoCal in the Middle ride, and the "Xtra Hand Clamps" seemed to me to make things go easier. I didn't see any particular advantage to their lever over Mitch's, however. Lots of lube also seemed to very important.

 

Actually what you saw Bill was all Nomar tire changer and tools. I see from the pictures that the Cycle Hill changer looks similar. The Nomar lever in my opinion works much better than Mitch's for shallow drop center wheels. The shape of the tip makes all the difference. I just couldn't get the hang of it. The early Mitch tips(with the thin end) like the one I saw used at Richard's tech days looked better for the task than the newer tip(thick end) I bought to use with a Harbor changer. I have since sold it and the Harbor stuff.

[Whip]

I've changed more than few tires with the HF and Mitch's bar at Torrey in Killer garage. I'm sure my technique could use some work.

It is very difficult by myself.

 

 

I've also changed my tires many many times at home with my No-Mar set up. I am faster and better by myself than when I have help with the No-Mar.

 

I would buy another No-Mar......

 

I have the trailer hitch anchor system for the NM.

 

 

God Luck

 

[Twisties]

Then why do you want the Nomar I wonder? I don't think you'll really see a cost-effective performance increase over a HF changer equipped with Mojoblocks and a Mojobar (the combination of which would be under $300, perhaps saved in just the first few changes.)

 

This sounds like the question of someone who is tired of changing tires. If you are, then start taking them in for a while.

 

Well, I am tired of struggling with the HF tire changer and mojo bar.

 

No, getting a new set of equipment is not very cost-effective, but as we've all pointed out it isn't only about cost, there are convenience, satisfaction and assurance (that it's done right) to be considered as well. Ease of use would boost these factors.

 

What would really s*** would be to decide to get another set of tools and then find that I'm still struggling.

 

What I was looking for in this thread was just some general discussion and maybe comparison of tool systems. Maybe I hadn't identified all the possibilities, and GordonB and ianboysdnsr both offered up possibilities I hadn't considered. Maybe I would have been told the No-Mar systems were just as much of a pain, or maybe I would have heard that I needed something beyond the basic No-Mar system. Maybe someone would have suggested using a No-Mar bar with the HF changer. Maybe someone would have opined on the No-Mar spoons.

 

I haven't made any decisions. It's just what's been on my mind, well one of many things. Thanks everyone for the input.

[10ovr]

I have the No-Mar Jr Pro,,Love it,,I seem to have gained a lot of Friends since I got it,,I hit every body up for $5 a tire,,Its half paid off,,,,,Nobody in AZ can beat that price,,,,,,Jan if you are going to be in AZ any time soon,We could do a few tires, and I can show you a trick or to 2 ,I can have a tire off and a new tire on in less then 2 minutes

[E30TECH]

Jan -

 

"Well, I am tired of struggling with the HF tire changer and mojo bar. "

 

I didn't read all the posts above, but if you are struggling, you are not doing it right.

 

I have the same setup (HF changer, + mojo bar). Are you putting a strap thru the rim, and around the jaw of the tire changer? That will keep the wheel from rotating on you.

 

To lube the tire, I use a little car wash soap on the very edge of the tire. Then I will wet my fingers with water, and rub over the area with the soap. It helps to use a hand screw (sounds dirty, but one of those big wooden clamps) to keep the tire from walking off the rim.

 

I just did mine yesterday, and it took about an hour with balancing.

[Twisties]

I have the No-Mar Jr Pro,,Love it,,I seem to have gained a lot of Friends since I got it,,I hit every body up for $5 a tire,,Its half paid off,,,,,Nobody in AZ can beat that price,,,,,,Jan if you are going to be in AZ any time soon,We could do a few tires, and I can show you a trick or to 2 ,I can have a tire off and a new tire on in less then 2 minutes

 

Thanks Tim! Barring any emergencies with my mom, I have no definite plans to be AZ. Most likely We'll be down by the end of the year for something, but whether on the bikes, or in need of a tire change at the time is all very questionable.

[Twisties]

Jan -

 

"Well, I am tired of struggling with the HF tire changer and mojo bar. "

 

I didn't read all the posts above, but if you are struggling, you are not doing it right.

 

I have the same setup (HF changer, + mojo bar). Are you putting a strap thru the rim, and around the jaw of the tire changer? That will keep the wheel from rotating on you.

 

Yes, we started that by the second or third set we did.

 

To lube the tire, I use a little car wash soap on the very edge of the tire. Then I will wet my fingers with water, and rub over the area with the soap.

 

We have used RU Glyde and No-Mar paste. The RU Glyde dries too fast and doesn't seem to lubricate very well. The No-Mar paste is a great lube, too good. We have more problems with the tire walking on the rim and the already seated bead coming off, despite use of clamps.

 

It helps to use a hand screw (sounds dirty, but one of those big wooden clamps) to keep the tire from walking off the rim.

 

We've tried several different clamps. Not a hand screw yet though.

 

I just did mine yesterday, and it took about an hour with balancing.

 

Try it when it's 40 and overcast. I usually find warm weather is easy. Especially if you put the tire in the sun. But tires vary. I thought these Dunlop Roadsmarts we did in March in cool weather were total h***. They seemed to have a stiffer bead that would not flex over and under the rim at the toolhead well. I heated them over a space heater under a tarp for hours, and finally got them mounted. Was h***. Then getting them off proved almost as bad.

 

I find the Mojo bar binds in the tire during mounting, and the tip is difficult to insert and bends during demounting. Unless the tires are good and warm, usually end up using tire irons with the HF platform.

[smiller]

I find the Mojo bar binds in the tire during mounting, and the tip is difficult to insert and bends during demounting. Unless the tires are good and warm, usually end up using tire irons with the HF platform.

I have to think that if you find tire irons easier than the Mojobar then you are definitely doing something wrong.

[10ovr]

I have the No-Mar Jr Pro,,Love it,,I seem to have gained a lot of Friends since I got it,,I hit every body up for $5 a tire,,Its half paid off,,,,,Nobody in AZ can beat that price,,,,,,Jan if you are going to be in AZ any time soon,We could do a few tires, and I can show you a trick or to 2 ,I can have a tire off and a new tire on in less then 2 minutes

 

Thanks Tim! Barring any emergencies with my mom, I have no definite plans to be AZ. Most likely We'll be down by the end of the year for something, but whether on the bikes, or in need of a tire change at the time is all very questionable.

Jan we can just pull one of my wheels off and do it,,You dont need to have your bike here,,If you are ever coming down,,Let me know,,Im here for you buddy...

[Fugu]

Jan, despite my well deserved reputation for being a smartass, you are doing it wrong bud.

 

Seriously.

 

Something is amiss technique wise. I suspect one of two things:

 

1) insufficient lube on the low part of the wheel, which means that

 

2) the side of the tire already on past the bead is not down in that low spot on the rim, making it really tough to muscle the last bit of bead on

 

I can muscle a front, but not a rear- then I remember- lube that center section, drop the bead that's already over the rim into the center section so there's enough slack for the last bit to pop on.

 

That's what usually gets my goat.

 

When I do it right -tire pops right on, no fuss.

 

If you are bending stuff, you are using way too much force. . When you do it right, it won't take muscle.

 

I like the mo mar mount/ demount bar because it's long enough that I can apply rotational force by nudging it along with my hip while I have both hands to hold the bead, etc but you have a team there- it shouldn't be that hard.

 

take pics next time. When you are struggling mightily and the tire won't go on, stop, take pics for us. I'm sure you're doing something wrong that's frustrating you.

 

I spent 4 hours on a set of tires once as a learning experience. Bending stuff, cussing, breaking my changer (welded a repair).... Then I went and watched the no mar videos on their site again and the bulb went on.

 

edit: if you and Sharon are through Oregon, I'd be happy to show you on my HF stand, homemade blocks, no mar tool setup.... and pour beverages on the deck and give you two the keys to the guest room.

 

[Twisties]

Thanks Mike.

[bobbybob]

Jan, despite my well deserved reputation for being a smartass, you are doing it wrong bud.

 

Seriously.

 

Something is amiss technique wise. I suspect one of two things:

 

1) insufficient lube on the low part of the wheel, which means that

 

2) the side of the tire already on past the bead is not down in that low spot on the rim, making it really tough to muscle the last bit of bead on

 

I can muscle a front, but not a rear- then I remember- lube that center section, drop the bead that's already over the rim into the center section so there's enough slack for the last bit to pop on.

 

That's what usually gets my goat.

 

When I do it right -tire pops right on, no fuss.

 

If you are bending stuff, you are using way too much force. . When you do it right, it won't take muscle.

 

I like the mo mar mount/ demount bar because it's long enough that I can apply rotational force by nudging it along with my hip while I have both hands to hold the bead, etc but you have a team there- it shouldn't be that hard.

 

take pics next time. When you are struggling mightily and the tire won't go on, stop, take pics for us. I'm sure you're doing something wrong that's frustrating you.

 

I spent 4 hours on a set of tires once as a learning experience. Bending stuff, cussing, breaking my changer (welded a repair).... Then I went and watched the no mar videos on their site again and the bulb went on.

 

edit: if you and Sharon are through Oregon, I'd be happy to show you on my HF stand, homemade blocks, no mar tool setup.... and pour beverages on the deck and give you two the keys to the guest room.

 

 

What he said, esp. re. lubing the INSIDE of the wheel's shoulder so the bead will easily slip down into the center drop zone. Make a check-list to follow prior to mounting. Easy to forget to do this when getting set up. Get the NoMar Video!!!

 

One trick I learned to keep the tire from walking around the rim when mounting (and it works much better than clamps because clamps can keep the bead too low and create more stress when pressing it down in another spot 90 degrees away from the clamp): Instead of a clamp, use a strap (short tie-down works) around the wheel and tire in one spot where the bead is already below the rim before starting to mount. Get it snug. This will stop the dis-mounting as the tool approaches the strap when the tire is close to popping over the rim, and leaves slack for you to push the opposite bead into the "zone". All technique--if its hard to do, wrong technique. Get that free Video!! (And yes, some tires ARE more difficult than others--but not impossible).

 

 

[Matts_12GS]

I have only used the HF setup for doing tires, unless doing it on my garage floor on a sheet of cardboard counts! That first set on my own took about 4 hours...

 

For my 1100RT and on my VSTROMs it is only about a 30 minute gig to do front and rear with balancing. Another 30 to reinstall and life is good.

 

Danny and I have developed well as a team when it comes to this, but I think that the repeatability of what we do to set the both beads and then use a tie down strap to hold those into the center of the rim whilst we chase the rest with regular tire irons works fine. It's worth a try unless you just don't like the HF setup and want different tools.

[eddd]

I have the No-Mar Jr Pro,,Love it,,I seem to have gained a lot of Friends since I got it,,I hit every body up for $5 a tire,,Its half paid off,,,,,Nobody in AZ can beat that price,,,,,,Jan if you are going to be in AZ any time soon,We could do a few tires, and I can show you a trick or to 2 ,I can have a tire off and a new tire on in less then 2 minutes

 

Does the $5 include coffee? Refills?

 

[eddd]

Jan, small wooden blocks placed along the top bead on a front tire keep it in the center of the rim. (They work for the rear tire too, but the wider rears are usually not as difficult.) I also have rim protectors and find it quicker and easier to pop that last bit with a good tire iron.

[Ken H.]

The No-Mar paste is a great lube, too good. We have more problems with the tire walking on the rim and the already seated bead coming off, despite use of clamps.

Don’t lube the tire/wheel all the way around. Don’t lube the portion you can push on by hand, only the part where you need the No-Mar bar. The dry part of the circle will keep the tire from walking around, bead from walking back off.

 

I’m a stereotypical 90lb. weakling, and if I can put a tire on with my No-Mar, anybody can.

 

[RSR]

I got two friends to to come in on the purchase of a NoMar 1/3 the cost plus 3 x more tires = faster pay back.

Also being small town boys a trip to the city for tires also cost a day off work which doubles the expence.

[AZ-J]

I have the No-Mar Jr Pro,,Love it,,I seem to have gained a lot of Friends since I got it,,I hit every body up for $5 a tire,,Its half paid off,,,,,Nobody in AZ can beat that price,,,,,,Jan if you are going to be in AZ any time soon,We could do a few tires, and I can show you a trick or to 2 ,I can have a tire off and a new tire on in less then 2 minutes

 

Hello 10ovr from AZ-J in NE Phoenix/Scottsdale. Going to need tires on my R1200S, and I have a change of wheels. Is your equipment suitable (gentle enough) for CF wheels? If so, can you show me a trick or two. After seeing it done, I might just get a set of my own equipment.

[jjg3]

A friend with a Connie got a HF setup with bike adapter. We struggled with that for a while doing his tires and a set on my RT for a trip to AK.

 

I've used a bead popper and spoons for years (I don't balance and it's not been a problem so far) but was intrigued by the machine (having worked in a previous life at Firestone with pneumatic tire machines). Was not impressed that it took so much effort with the machine. Expectation was the provided leverage would mean less work. Maybe it takes practice, but it just seemed like we were sweating more that one should when using the assistance of a machine.

 

The bead popper and spoons work well enough that once when walking into the garage I noticed the arrow on the front tire on my Bonnie America was backwards (result of being in a hurry/pinched tube/frustration). It took 20 minutes, start to finish, to get it turned around and ready to ride, and that's with a tube.

 

The Connie guy did his last tire change with a bead popper and spoons because in the time it takes to drag his HF system out of the basement and get it set up in the garage, he could have been done already, and he wanted to know how just in case. He also balances, and did so after the spoon change.

 

A coworker wanted to see the spoon technique since he's tired of paying $50 per (wheels off bike, tires carried in) and was probably sick of hearing me extol the virtues of doing it oneself. We did 3 tires (2 on his FJR13 and a spare for his FJ12) in a couple hours (from ready-to-ride to ready-to-ride) taking time because it was a teaching moment and there were misplaced front fender parts. I left him with 4 spoons (still have half dozen) so his investment of $19 in a bead popper and some time saves him $50 a whack.

 

It can be a breeze or tough, sweaty work depending on the tire. Plenty of lube and keeping the bead in the center well are always key (I use soapy water which really sets some people off). A set can routinely be done in under an hour starting and finishing with wheels on the bike.

 

My preference is to work alone with a bead popper and spoons, it's sort of a Zen thing, good physical work with a satisfying end (and doesn't take days or weeks, I have a short attention span).

 

Of course if cheap, stone age tools don't do it for you then never mind (although you can get them from Aerostich where they're certainly not cheap).

[Twisties]

What I think is that the Mojo bar works when you maintain a fairly steep angle with it relative to the plane of the wheel. At Richard and Jacqueline's TechDaze last summer a number of us hit upon removing the upper support arm from the HF tire changer to allow the operator to maintain a higher angle, and freer movement of the Mojo bar. However, this has the effect of reducing the center support pole rigidity and strength. When tires are warm it works fine, but when tires are cool and stiffer there is insufficient rigidity in the center support pole.

 

The No-Mar models all, based on the photos, seem to provide a much greater overhead clearance than the HF unit, and a more robust center pole.

 

When properly mounted in a concrete floor, and using a strap, as noted above, the HF unit provides a solid support for the wheel. It's the rest of the setup that's in question.

 

[Fugu]

Could be the angle of the mojo bar changing the dynamic, but with my setup, if I am pushing that hard against the center post, I'm doing something wrong. I haven't had the top arm on my HF changer since I removed it after my first tire.

 

 

Since you have a hf changer already, perhaps the sensible move is to try a no mar bar or some other bar with it to see if that helps. Cheaper than a no mar setup.

 

You could put the top arm back on your hf then, too. I prefer it off, but there's no major problem using the no mar bar with the arm in place, the no mar bar is nearly horizontal when in use.

[E30TECH]

I haven't had the top arm on my HF changer since I removed it after my first tire.

 

Same here - I put the metal rod thru the center of the rim.

 

I might use 3 pounds of force to push the tire on the wheel with the mojo bar.

 

I have done it in the winter, when the garage was < 40F. Not breaking your stones, but it really is the technique. I did have trouble at first, but after a few uses, it got much easier.

[stubble!]

Jan, I enjoyed changing tires with you at R&J's tech day, and I can't say I noticed any particular issue with your technique at that time.

 

Having said that, I do think it's likely technique. I use the same setup you do, right down to the RU-glyde, I haven't yet had a tire give me any real trouble. Some are easier than others, but on any hard ones I've been able to see that it wasn't in the groove or wasn't lubed well or I wasn't holding it fast well-enough.

 

Are you using a clamp of some sort to hold the tire in the center channel? I find I'm usually able to hold it with one hand while I use the bar in the other, but have used a clamp to help squeeze once or twice. This is the critical part, and if I do this right the Mojo lever works well to run around the rim, without an extreme angle.

 

The HF changer is certainly a POS. The MOJO blocks are great and make it at least possible to use, but the changer is cheap. Even if strapped, the wheel moves around (or even comes out of the blocks), and the center post should be stiffer. I don't use the top bar section because it gets in the way of a full rotation. (I find I need about 450 degrees of rotation with the bar to account for tire slip along the way.)

 

If I had the budget for it, I'd go with a better machine and be thrilled, even if the ROI was a longer way off. If I buy my tires online, I'm looking at about $60-80/pair to mount locally. So I paid for my current setup pretty fast. Even faster if I compare to dealer prices for tires. Ouch!

 

But although the primary justification is financial, for me there are more reasons for doing it myself. Roughly in order:

 

- Far less time required on my part overall, and I don't need to leave home.

- No more scratches on my rims

- Opportunity to look over brakes and other parts of the bike

- Personal satisfaction of a physical task done well

- Not afraid to change a 50%-used tire before a trip because I can keep the old one for another time.

- I've used it for car & trailer tires.

 

[Twisties]

Sebastian, I enjoyed working with you too. I noticed then that you are a lot stronger than me. I can't hold things like you do. I'm in there with Ken, a weakling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lawnchairboy]

when are you guys gonna convert????

 

This:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is the only way to lube up rubber... for your motorcycle. No kidding. Works like a charm.

[Twisties]

when are you guys gonna convert????

 

This:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is the only way to lube up rubber... for your motorcycle. No kidding. Works like a charm.

 

[Matts_12GS]

I have used soapy water and I have used liquid wrench spray silicone. Both work well, and actually, used together are a great combo.

 

[Sellis]

+1 on the No-Mar. Three of us split the cost, and it's already paid for itself. No worries trying to get an appointment at the dealer, you can change them when you want to, not when the dealer wants to. Also, you can put on new tires for a trip, then put your worn tires back on and finish them off for local stuff, after you've worn out your trip tires, costs nothing but a little time. Several times I've changed to new tires prior to a trip because the tires on the bike did not have enough miles left on them for the trip and I did not want the delay and expense of buying tires on the road. No scratched rims, and you know it's done right! I wish I'd bought the No-Mar sooner!

 

Steve

[Fugu]

I can't see from Jan's comments that any of his troubles come from the HF changer since he has blocks installed. I made blocks out of nylon scrap, similar to the mojo and other blocks out there. I loop a tie down on the wheel to keep it from spinning in the blocks.

 

With blocks on the claws on the HF, the wheel is stable. Jan has his changer bolted down as well, whereas I just use mine on a sheet of plywood I stand on.

 

Sure, the No mar is sweet- I like the locking blocks, looks faster than cranking into the HF but I went cheap and I can take the extra couple of minutes to get the wheel secured in the HF. I'm not a shop for pay.

 

If the leverage on the changing bar is so great that the added reinforcement of the no mar is NEEDED, not just eye candy, then there's a technique problem. If you are pushing that hard on the mount/ demount tool of choice, something is not in the right place or something needs lube. Period.

 

One of the reasons I use the No Mar lube is it cleans up so easy. you can use a ton. I lube things as per their excellent free videos at their website.

 

If I get resistance on the mount bar I spray it with more spray lube and I liberally grease up the wheel and the tire bead with the thicker no mar grease.

 

 

 

 

[Mark K]

.......I often will remove a set of tires that may have 3 to 4 K miles left on them and put on a set of high mileage tires when going on extended trips (Unrally VIII!). The 3-4K mile tires will get used up later on local / short rides........

 

 

+1

 

That right there makes it cost-effective.