After market shock primer

[AdventurePoser]

Hi all,

 

I am thinking, after 5 beemers and 215,000 miles to buy a set of aftermarket shocks for my R1200RT. Everyone tells me this is the one purchase I need to make, and that I won't believe the difference in handling with a good set of aftermarkets...

 

So what advice can you all give me about buying aftermarket? If you've got them, please weigh in. I want to make the best decision possible, especially when I consider the co$t!

 

Cheers,

Steve

[Shaman97]

Steve,

 

After the purchase of the shocks, unless they are setup properly by a professional, the ride difference is minimal, at best.

 

I bought a set of Ohlins second-hand that had a set of springs for someone 150#. Needless to say, this wouldn't work. I had a local shop get the proper set of springs for my weight, but the ride difference wasn't 'all that'. Then, after someone that was setting up suspensions locally did the final adjustments, there was an 'AHA!' moment. That's when the light went on.

 

Moshe Levy did a terrific writeup in an MCN a few months ago. If you can get a copy of that, it was pretty thorough.

[russell_bynum]

Steve,

 

After the purchase of the shocks, unless they are setup properly by a professional, the ride difference is minimal, at best.

 

My experience was completely different than that. (I've got experience with aftermarket or reworked suspenders from Ohlins, Penske, Works Performance, GP Suspension, Showa, Fox, and RaceTech.) It doesn't take a magician to do a basic setup...it just takes a methodical approach and some time, and you can make a HUGE improvement doing it yourself.

 

That said, a good suspension guy IS like a magician and can make a good suspension even better with just a few minutes of work. I'm certainly not poopooing the professional suspension folks. If you have an opportunity to work with them, DO IT. But doing it yourself you can make a pretty big difference.

 

Steve, I haven't kept up with the latest trends in R1200 shocks, but last time I looked Ohlins was still good, Works Performance was good (and if you've got ESA, they can put your ESA gizmos on shocks that are actually worthy of the bike), and who ever's selling Wilbers (Hyperpro??) are good.

 

 

[Firefight911]

Take a look at Elka. They have some great stuff as well. I've had the Ohlins and Wilber's on the R12 series bikes. Both were great.

[smiller]

Having just purchased a K1200GT with ESA and comparing that to my Works-equipped R1100RT I'm more convinced than ever of the value of good aftermarket shocks. The Works ride better than the ESA on the 'comfort' setting, yet the ESA have to be cranked up to 'sport' to equal the damping control provided by the Works units... except at the point the ESA is uncomfortably stiff and harsh. The Works units' single setting does a better job than ESA on any setting. I don't know why BMW choose to put the extra money into ESA instead of simply installing a quality set of shocks (as some other manufactuers do, i.e. come with Ohlins standard, etc.) I can only imagine that in the marketing bullet points 'good shocks' doesn't sell bikes as well as a 'complex gee-gaw system designed to emulate good shocks.'

 

Anyway, I'll live with the stock system until my bank account recovers and then Works will be getting some more business from me. Maybe ESA with something better than mediocre damping actually will be an improvement.

[Twisties]

Based on the general opinions you see here, we each got a set of Works Performance shocks for our RTs. The new shocks proved to be sprung way to light, despite having provided detailed information to Works. We were too inexperienced to recognize the problem right away. Now we're going through the process of pulling the new shocks, reinstalling the OEM shocks for the interim, and ultimately reinstalling the Works shocks when they come back. A lot of work, time and trouble.

 

Having a ridden a few hundred miles with the OEM shocks back on my bike, I am wondering how I could have ever ridden with the Works shocks at all. A real eye opener. I now know why I was having various troubles riding, and have a better understanding of the effects of shocks, and for the first time can understand the limitations of the OEM shocks. I remain hopeful that the decision to go with a high quality aftermarket shock will prove to be a good one. I just want to point out that the conversion is a process, and not necessarily a trouble free one. Also, if you are buying anything used, get it rebuilt to your specs.

 

There is more. We attended a seminar at our local shop in which we were told that high quality aftermarket shocks come with compression damping, rebound damping and pre-load adjustability. The main reason we chose Works non-ESA shocks was that we thought we would be able to "dial them in", e.g. fine tune them. In fact the front came with pre-load adjustment only. The rear with pre-load and rebound damping only. Less adjustability than OEM shocks. Lesson: ask about this, don't assume.

 

I'm not done. We were offered a menu of configurations:

 

ESA (my bike, send OEM shocks in for nominal 3 weeks)

Manual with threaded adjustment,

with Works external hydraulic adjuster, and

with the OEM (Sharon's non-ESA bike, send OEM in for nominal 3 weeks) hydraulic adjuster.

 

The nominal 3 weeks turned into 9 weeks. Good thing we didn't send our shocks in.

 

We were told the hydraulic adjusters have limited lifetimes, the threaded adjusters are permanent, but require you to get on the ground with a provided tool. We chose the threaded adjusters on this basis. When we specifically mentioned our riding habits which include touring loads and day ride loads we were told we would likely not need to adjust the shocks between those loads. Possibly as a result of the light springs, this proved quite untrue. What we were not told is that the threaded adjusters are h*** to work with, and adjustments are a time consuming activity that is sufficiently onerous that you really just aren't going to do it. Works in their literature basically states that the threaded adjuster is for initial setup and is suited to bikes which are always ridden with the same load.

 

The good is that all of this is being taken care of for us. The shocks are being resprung, and the hydraulic adjusters are being installed. I believe we will only pay the original difference in cost between the adjuster types. The bad is that this shows nothing here is simple, experience helps a lot (we didn't have it), and resuspending your ride is a process.

 

Hopefully our noob experience will help you a bit in your journey.

[tallman]

Steve, if possible, ride a bike that is set up for someone of similar size.

Shocks can change things for better or worse.

Our Wilber's came very close to just right (this was when Klaus in NJ was selling them and our dealership began to do so also) and when I sat on the bike, we did some slight adjustment for the sag.

Then had passenger sit on bike and w/the springs we got not much changed (info you provide on weight/w/gear, passenge wt and riding load).

I just need to turn two clicks and we're good to go when adding passenger.

Very happy w/them.

Talk to Ted Porter at Beemerworks, good luck.

[smiller]

Most of the aftermarket shocks I've evaluated don't offer adjustable compression damping, only rebound (and preload of course.) And even that doesn't really represent less adjustability than stock ESA since I can't adjust compression or rebound with ESA, except in the three steps that BMW has decided is appropriate for all riders. I'm really better off with a properly-chosen preset compression adjustment and fully adjustable rebound aftermarket unit.

 

However if the Works front unit doesn't have any damping adjustment then that is disappointing, as are the service glitches you experienced. It may just be best to go with whatever brand offers the best options, quality, and price and simply forget about maintaining ESA functionality, it's not really necessary anyway.

[markgoodrich]

Steve, I went from ESA to manual aftermarkets, after much hand-wringing. I had an expert set me up for solo and two-up, which made a huge difference. I switch back and forth between solo and two up constantly, and changing the settings is a 60-second deal.

 

The only thing I think I'd add to all the other comments is to try to find a LOCAL setup expert who can also order your shocks. If off-bike adjustments need to be made, you don't have the hassle of shipping, etc, and the guy who got the shocks for you will be more likely to get the fix right.

[russell_bynum]

However if the Works front unit doesn't have any damping adjustment then that is disappointing, as are the service glitches you experienced.

 

I agree. The works front shock that I had on my RT had rebound damping adjustment.

 

It may just be best to go with whatever brand offers the best options, quality, and price and simply forget about maintaining ESA functionality, it's not really necessary anyway.

 

Yes and no. One thing that ESA does is make it easy to change modes. Now...for damping, I don't think that's important since, as you said and as I've experienced, good shocks work better on one setting than stock shocks work on any of their settings. But...if I was switching between solo and 2-up, or unloaded and substantially loaded, I sure as hell would not want to be dicking around with manual preload adjustments via the collar on the shocks. I don't think ESA is necessary per say, but remote hydraulic adjustment is a huge improvement in convenience over having to mess with the collars on the shock.

 

For me..on the RT, I had the Works "ARS" rear shock which was two springs (a hard and a soft) with a three-position cup on the bottom of the shock that you'd rotate to switch between three pre-determined preload settings. This could be done by hand in about 2 minutes, including the time it took to pop off the black plastic side panel to access the bottom of the shock. If I didn't have that option, I would have gone with something that gave me remote hydraulic preload.

 

As for the damping...I sometimes added one click of rebound damping when going from solo to 2-up, but usually not and those that rode with me while 2-up can attest that it didn't seem to hurt the bike's handling any.

 

Jan,

Your bad experience with Works Performance seems to be somewhat common, unfortunately. Personally...I've always had great service from them with a quick response and the shock built to my specifications. The one time I had a problem. they dealt with it quickly and without any fuss. But I do know that some folks have had bad experiences with them (usually along the lines of "long wait times" rather than "the shock was not setup right') so Steve...definitely take that into consideration. They're local here in SoCal, so maybe a visit to their shop would help make your decision.

 

The misunderstanding in what adjustments you get is also unfortunate. When I ordered my Works shocks, I talked at great length with the tech on the phone about that stuff as well as my riding style and what I wanted the bike to do. When I sent them back for the first rebuild I asked for "a little bit less high-speed compression damping" (this is not adjustable from the outside of the shock, but when they have it apart to rebuild, they can tweak the internals to change the damping) and when it came back, it was dead-nuts-perfect.

 

As far as I know, you can get Wilbers with externally adjustable high and low speed compression damping as well as rebound damping and preload (remote), but I think everyone else just offers rebound damping and some method of preload. Don't quote me on that, though.

 

 

[moshe_levy]

Steve-

 

After immersing myself in RT shocks for months in prep for my writeup in MCN, and then living with some comparison sets, I'd say this: Brand X vs. Brand Y is a waste of time, by and large, compared to Person X vs. Person Y installing and setting up. THAT'S where the magic is, not so much in the hardware, assuming decent stuff to begin with. My writeup is online here http://www.mklsportster.com/Articles/mcnsuspension.pdf I hope you find it helpful.

 

-MKL

 

[Twisties]

Russell,

 

I don't view my Works experience as "bad", yet. If we end up with what we expected in the end I'll be happy. It just turned out to be a bit more problematic than expected. As long as the shop and Works are standing behind their products, I don't feel I have room to characterize this as a complaint, in fact I'm pretty pleased overall with the responsiveness. There hasn't been any arguing.

 

Anyway, I was just hoping that the narrative gave Steve some things to consider, questions to ask, etc.

 

I wish we had been offered an ARS shock. We'll see how the limited external adjustability works when the rebuilt shocks come back. It might not be a bad thing if they nail it right to begin with.

[AdventurePoser]

Hey, everybody, many thansk, and Moshe, thanks for the link to your article.

 

 

Your view points were very educational to me. I think we are in for new aftermarkets, but will try to buy them locally in So Cal from a knowledgeable shop that can help with set up.

 

Do any of you So Cal riders have an opinion on a good suspension shop?

 

Best,

Steve

[smiller]

I wish we had been offered an ARS shock. We'll see how the limited external adjustability works when the rebuilt shocks come back. It might not be a bad thing if they nail it right to begin with.

ARS was a great system but the option seems to have disappeared for the late-model bikes, and of course would be redundant for an ESA system anyway.

 

Please let us know how this ends up working out for you Jan.

 

 

[GordonB]

Steve Stig Pettersson in Anaheim can take good care of you; If you purchase new shocks from him. His $$$ are slightly higher, but the extra $$$ includes his expertise on setup . I wish I went that route when I got mine.

[AdventurePoser]

Gordon, nice hearing from you...thanks for the link. I will give him a call. My wife is green lighting this project. She says the bike feels unsettled with some "pogoing" at speed in the twisties....Bless her heart.

 

Cheers,

Steve

[smiller]

In fact the front came with pre-load adjustment only.

Not doubting you but this seems strange because per the Works website the Works ESA conversion includes ESA-adjustable rebound damping front and rear, and spring preload on the rear, just like the stock ESA system (with the exception of no ESA compression adjustment on the rear.) So this would mean that if you order a Works ESA system you get adjustable rebound damping on the front but without the ESA conversion you don't? Sounds odd since one would think that they are using the same shock body for both products.

 

If this really is the case perhaps you should consider getting the ESA conversion? That would still represent an upgrade because while you would still be limited to the stock ESA adjustment steps I gotta believe the Works dampers would be much superior to the stock units (or at least they sure are when I compare my stock ESA bike with my Works-equipped bike.)

 

[Twisties]

Well, I don't have the shock here now, however the literature we received indicated only preload adjustment, and we never saw anything for rebound damping adjustment. We'll ask when they come back. I'll let you all know how it all turns out.

[AdventurePoser]

I'm going to take a ride out to PPS in Anaheim early in the week and talk to Sig Pettersson about the RT...I'm sure they have a shock, but a model number for the R12RT is not on their website.

 

So I can prepare myself, approx how much money am I looking at? I'm thinking about $1800...am I low, or on the money?

 

Cheers,

Steve in So Cal

[Tony_K]

Stig deals in Ohlins and $1800 is about right-ish when it's all said and done with taxes and such.

 

Stig is a great guy. Super easy to work with and nice as they come.

[AdventurePoser]

Do you have Ohlins on yours, Tony? If so was it worth it?

 

Steve

[Tony_K]

Yes and YES!

[tallman]

I believe the cat in Tony's avatar is running Ohlins

w/preload adjustment set a bit low but the damping seems to be just right.

No pogo on landing and no discernible traction loss when getting on the throttle.

[topdal46]

I bought new Works Performance shocks for my R1100RT with 65,000 miles on it. I had Roger down in Austin do the dialing in for me. I feel a improvement in the ride and control, not to the extent that I was expecting.

 

I've read several post's on this site about new shocks changing the feel of the bike, mine did change, yes, but not that much that I can tell. Maybe I need a butt adjustment instead of a shock adjustment.

[russell_bynum]

I bought new Works Performance shocks for my R1100RT with 65,000 miles on it. I had Roger down in Austin do the dialing in for me. I feel a improvement in the ride and control, not to the extent that I was expecting.

 

I don't know what was involved with "Roger down in Austin do the dialing in for me", but dialing in shocks is not a "drop the bike off and pick it up later when it's done" process.

 

You do the basic setup (preload and damping) and then ride the bike, paying attention to how things are working. Then you stop and make adjustments. Ride again and pay attention to how it's working. Stop and make adjustments. Etc.

 

When I've worked with suspension guys at the track, it consists of:

1. They check out my base setup with me on the bike. They bounce both ends and adjust until they rebound at the rate they think is good, and both ends rebound at the same rate.

2. I go out for a session.

3. I come back. They check the damping immediately to see how things are working now that they shocks are hot. They look at my tires for clues about what the suspension is doing. They talk to me about what I feel. Then they make the necessary adjustments and send me back out.

4. I do another session.

5. I come back. They check damping immediately. Look at my tires. Talk to me. make adjustments. Repeat as necessary.

 

As I said...I don't know what was involved with your suspension setup, but I've heard of guys dropping their bike off, picking it up later, and being frustrated that they didn't notice a big difference. Unless the person who's doing the setup weighs the same as you, rides the same as you, and likes the suspension to feel the same as you, they're not going to be able to do a very good job of setting it up for you.

 

[topdal46]

Russell

 

Yes, to what you described, I was there, and I was doing the bouncing as Roger measured and adjusted took about 30 minutes to get it all done, I can't remember the name of his small company. Roger is a racer on weekends and actually works out of a house in a housing tract.

 

I found his name from several posts on the BMW site, maybe I need it done again? from somebody else?

 

 

 

 

[russell_bynum]

Russell

 

Yes, to what you described, I was there, and I was doing the bouncing as Roger measured and adjusted took about 30 minutes to get it all done, I can't remember the name of his small company. Roger is a racer on weekends and actually works out of a house in a housing tract.

 

I found his name from several posts on the BMW site, maybe I need it done again? from somebody else?

 

 

 

 

Was there a test ride involved?

 

I don't know if you need to find someone else to work with or not. I do know that for me, on every bike I've put aftermarket suspension on, the difference has been HUGE once I got things dialed in.

 

First things first: Getting the springs and damping right for my weight was a huge help. If you accidentally weigh what the manufacturer decided an average rider weighs, you're already ahead of the game.

 

After that...good aftermarket vs. cheap OEM: Much better control over bumps and cornering load...less suspension travel, no pogoing, much more progressive damping, etc. Also, much less harsh over sharp bumps (i.e. less high-speed compression damping) without being too soft under cornering loads.

 

The biggest difference I felt, out of all my bikes, was the RT. Not only did I have a nice plush ride on the freeway, but I could throw it into turns as hard as I wanted and it wouldn't pogo, bottom out, etc. It would just roll in and stick. In 2-up mode, the only thing that changed was the bike turned slower due to the extra weight...I still had a nice plush ride and could throw the bike in as hard as I wanted. 120mph sweepers were rock solid without any wallowing or instability.

 

 

Naturally, YMMV.

[smiller]

The biggest difference I felt, out of all my bikes, was the RT. Not only did I have a nice plush ride on the freeway, but I could throw it into turns as hard as I wanted and it wouldn't pogo, bottom out, etc. It would just roll in and stick. In 2-up mode, the only thing that changed was the bike turned slower due to the extra weight...I still had a nice plush ride and could throw the bike in as hard as I wanted. 120mph sweepers were rock solid without any wallowing or instability.

But at what point did you switch from 'comfort' to 'sport'?

[russell_bynum]

The biggest difference I felt, out of all my bikes, was the RT. Not only did I have a nice plush ride on the freeway, but I could throw it into turns as hard as I wanted and it wouldn't pogo, bottom out, etc. It would just roll in and stick. In 2-up mode, the only thing that changed was the bike turned slower due to the extra weight...I still had a nice plush ride and could throw the bike in as hard as I wanted. 120mph sweepers were rock solid without any wallowing or instability.

But at what point did you switch from 'comfort' to 'sport'?

 

LOL.

 

I remember...after I put the new shocks on and got them dialed, it was nice solo. Better than stock and worth the money, but not "HOLY SH*T!!!" better. Then Lisa and I went 2-up on The Crest for one of the "meatfest" rides. We could not believe how much better the bike was. I think I even passed Laney on that ride, and she was on her SV650. Very few people pass Laney anyway, and when she was on the SV...fuggedaboudit. It really was like a completely different bike and I remember being pissed at myself for waiting so long to upgrade.