Michelin PR2 vs Metzler Z6

[Deek]

My R1200RT had PR2s on it since I bought it about 10k miles ago. I ordered a PR2 replacement for the rear as the one on it was looking like it had only 1k or so to go. Then I went on a 1000 trip and got a 3-4 mm hole in the rear tire.....good timing. The only ST tire I could find on the trip was a Metzler Z6 - it's mounted now and I suppose it's an okay tire, but I have noticed it "seems" to get a little squirrely on tar snakes. I have not much experience with this tire, only maybe 700 miles or so.

 

When I got back from the trip my new PR2 rear tire had arrived. The bike goes into the dealer in about a week for service, and I'm wondering if I ought to have the Z6 removed and the PR2 installed in its place. I would keep the Z6 as a spare.

 

I could return the PR2, but I don't need the money and shipping it back would probably cost maybe $40-$50. I figure either the Z6 or the Pr2 could easily be safely stored in my house for a year before being (re)mounted.

 

My riding is 90% flower-sniffing type touring, and while I do enjoy the twisties, I am probably a fairly non-aggressive rider. I think my major concern is traction in the wet. I am guessing the PR2 is better in the wet, but have not done any research yet to learn about the Metzler.

 

Any thoughts or comments? Thanks for your input.

[der Wanderer]

Main comment: avoid mixing brands and/or tire constructions. This is a recipe for disaster.

 

Even on dry pavement, unbalance can occur - and in your case you have a radial upfront and a crossed plied tire in the back. That means in all likelihood that the front tire has more cornering stiffness than the rear tire, and that's bad for stability, especially at speed.

 

And on wet, you will have two different adherence characteristics. Who knows which of the tire would give up first, etc...

 

Both of those brands are decent brands. I am biased towards Michelin because I worked for them once upon a time. But both should give you something intrinsically balanced and controllable. Mix and match and then you are in unknown territory.

[Albert]

I was under the impression the Z6 and the PR2 were both radial. No?

[Edgar]

The PR2 and the Z6 should work fine together as they're both radials. The Z6 is a fine tire and should perform as well or better than the PR2. The down side to the Z6 is that there are no tread indicators in the very center and it's easy to run them to the belt. Leave the Z6 on but be very diligent on checking the center of the tread after 5.5 K miles

[Paul Mihalka]

"Main comment: avoid mixing brands and/or tire constructions. This is a recipe for disaster."

 

This statement is exagerated and mistaken. From a manufacturer standpoint the BMW F650 bikes came from the factory with bias/belted front tires and radial rear tires. There may be others.

From a everyday standpoint, Advrider posters have long threads about mixing all kind of tires, some with good results, some with less good results, but no disasters. Some serious high performance riders on and of the track found tire combinations of different brands that worked best for them. I personally use right now on my R1200GS a Metzeler ME880 belted front tire and a radial Michelin Anakee2 radial rear tire and find it a very good combination. No disaster. Mixing tires by type and brand can't be recommended because you don't know what the result will be, but there is no known disaster.

 

[marcopolo]

As someone else has said, the Z6 rear does not have rain grooves that run completely across the tire. I didn't like that because I found it difficult to figure out how much tread I had left. Some don't find that that's an issue for them. I use Pilot Road 2s now.

[Polo]

Main comment: avoid mixing brands and/or tire constructions. This is a recipe for disaster.

 

We all talk in accordance to our own experience, or close evidence whether factual or anectdotal.

 

I have mixed tires in the past w/o any adverse effects. Yes the bike behaves different at first, but once you get used to what you can expect, it's all good.

 

I personally do not like the Z6 because they seem not to last given my riding style, but I used to love the Z4's.

 

I'd leave the Z6 on and think about ordering another front PR2, chances are that by the time the Z6 is done for, you'll need to replace the front also, then you can have a matched set again. Meanwhile you'll experiment with different tires made from different compounds behaving slightly different, this you can chuck to education...

 

Both PR2 and Z6 are radials.

 

Best.

[jbryant53]

Deek I was running a Z6 on the back of my RT, I liked everything about the tire except the total life and the fact it has no wear bar indicators and goes from looking "ok" to on the belts in no time....

 

I ran the last set a roadsmart rear and Z6 front..mixing tires isn't really the problem most make it out to be..a serious racer may feel the difference but us flower sniffers will likely never know the difference...

[malcolmblalock]

I've used both and prefer the Z6. The Michelin wore out much faster than the Z6, and I could tell no difference in the way the tires stuck to the road (dry or wet). Both stick very well.

 

The only drawback to the Z6 is the absence of wear indicators in the middle of the tire. I have learned how to tell when a tire is almost gone and now feel safe getting safe mileage from them (average about 12K miles per Z6 rear tire). Look for a subtle change in the color of the rubber when you suspect it's getting pretty worn. When you can see different shades of black, it's time to change. I've done this with the last 2 Z6s and have not worn to the threads.

 

BTW, I got <8k miles on the Michelin.

 

Just my 2 cents worth

[Bill_Walker]

I've had a Z6 rear showing cord in 6000 miles, and I've replaced one at 10,000 miles because I didn't trust it to cross a desert with that many miles (but it looked OK). It depends a LOT on where and how you ride. I'm liking the PR2s.

[Twisties]

In addition to what's been stated, I think the Z6's have harder turn in.... for my style riding which is more aggressive twisties. For the riding you describe, my harder turn might be your stability. I think the Z6 carcass is also a bit stiffer.

 

I agree they both have good grip and are both acceptable tires (other than the lack of wear indicator on the Z6), but I prefer the PRII's strongly over the Z6's.

 

Lots of people on the board have mixed tires without problem. I ran a BT021 rear with a Storm front for a bit. No issues.

[der Wanderer]

Paul, I respect your experience. But I worked for Michelin tires in tire dev and testing. I stand by my comment - mix and matching can be a recipe for trouble. Now, if you are BMW and need to play a bit with the balance of a bike, it may make sense

 

Note on radial vs bias belted. Radial theoretically is 90 degree plies. For a variety of reasons it can be very tricky to produce or to make work. Some manufacturers "cheat" and produce "near radials" which they call radials - for example 85 degree cross plies, or 80 degrees cross plies, belted of course. While this may sound almost like a radial, the actual functioning can be quite different. Therefore the difference between a real radial and a so called radial at 85 degree can be more than between an 85 degree so called radial and a tire called bias belted.

 

While I have not checked recently (as in, cut open a tire), the Metzelers I had looked into at the time were "pseudo radials". Nothing "wrong" in that, just that they may work very differently from a real radial.

 

On the dry, disaster is rare but occurs. In cases where the tire combination produces oversteer (even slight oversteer), there is a critical speed where the bike (or car for that matters) can no longer be controlled - instability speed. That is real disaster if it occurs.

 

On the wet it can be even more troublesome as you can have real mismatch of the adherences and instability at almost any speed in cornering...

 

I am not trying to make an absolute statement that there is no mix and match that could work, just that, unless you know exactly what you are doing, you should really not do it.

[gmarktbone]

If you got 10K out of a set of PR2s, you will not get anywhere close to that with the Z6. Since you have 700 miles on the Z6, you will only get another 4.5-5K. I would keep the z6 on it and use it up and save the money on tire mounting. I am now using Roadsmarts and I like them better than the Z6s, I'm hoping to get more than 5-6K out of them.

[Deek]

As someone else has said, the Z6 rear does not have rain grooves that run completely across the tire. I didn't like that because I found it difficult to figure out how much tread I had left. Some don't find that that's an issue for them. I use Pilot Road 2s now.

 

I hadn't though of that on the groves, thanks.

[Deek]

Thanks for all the comments and opinions. I had not really considered the potential issues running a PR2 on the front and Z6 on the rear, so thanks for bringing that up. I will probably replace the Z6 with the new PR2 sitting in my house.......I know I like the PR2 already because that's what the bike had originally.

 

I will keep the Z6 around as a spare tire. I don't think it's worth it trying to sell it with 700 miles on it. I've heard enough about its (possible and/or minor) issues with the wear bars and possible "radial belt design" mismatches.

 

It sounds like I might expect higher mileage with the the PR2 too, although that seems pretty hard to tell.

 

I've been happy with the PR2s like I said earlier, so my initial thoughts were to put the new one on when my bike goes in for service in the next week or so.

[RBertalotto]

The down side to the Z6 is that there are no tread indicators in the very center and it's easy to run them to the belt.

 

I went from a Z6 tire looking like it had a good 1000 miles left to this in under 100 miles!

 

 

The lack of center tread and no wear bars is a big issue. Too bad, because the Z^ is a good tire.

 

 

[stubble!]

A friend had the same experience as Roy. A tire went from looking great to showing steel in under 90 miles.

 

 

The OP asked if he should keep the Z6 on or save it, and I'd say given the riding style I'd just leave it on and use it up. But don't expect huge mileage, and be conservative as to when it's time to replace it.

 

[TommyboyinNC]

Don't you guys ever go around any corners...or have any twisties in Northern CA or MA?

[stubble!]

Nope, it's like Kansas around here.

 

[CoarsegoldKid]

Flat as a pancake and straight as a ruler here too.

 

I used Z6 for two sets and although they stuck and turned-in well for the first 3000 miles after which they made the bike reluctant to turn-in, they didn't last beyond 5K. However, you must remember that road surface, air pressure, loads, balance, suspension set-up, and rider technique and throttle control, as well as twisties and straights all play into how a tire feels and wears on the same bike. Switch bikes and any other parameter and you will likely have to start over learning what the tire will do. Take notes. Try to be consistent.

 

Roadsmarts after 4326 miles. Taken off my 1200RT a few day after the forum ride up here. I like the way they behave. Steering didn't suffer as much at the end of life as it did with Z6s. But as you can see they didn't last very long either.

Enjoy the ride.

 

Front

Rear

 

[Deek]

"..The lack of center tread and no wear bars is a big issue. ..."

 

That IS a big issue! I'd hate to start a 2000 mile tour and see the belts the second day into it! All the more reason to keep the Z6 at home as a spare.......I'd slap it on if I had a flat locally.

 

 

[CoarsegoldKid]

There are wear bars. Look for the TWI stamp and then you will see the wear bar near to it. The problem is the wear bar is not on the center of the tire. So even if one does see it and it indicates tread is remaining one may be lulled into believing they still have center tread which they may not. A tread wear measuring device is a better tool. Measure when new, write it down. Measure in 1500 mile intervals. Use it like a fuel gauge.

My opinion is that tires are consumables just like toner cartridges only your life is on the line not putting ink on paper. You can shake the cartridge when the light comes on and get more pages but if you try for more miles you may be sorry. I learned my lesson in 1976.

[tallman]

Sorry Roy, but that tire didn't even "look" great 100 miles before.

If you thought it did, there's a problem.

100 miles did not created the profile this tire shows.

I'm talking the sides and shape of the tire profile.

It was worn out.

And, several have commented about "looking" good.

That isn't how you see if a tire has mileage left.

You measure treaddepth.

I've seen Z6's go over 22,000 miles. They were shot and I would not have gone there with them but the owner did.

His choice.

I find the lack of tread in the middle no big deal.

I measure and compare tread depth, check wear bars, monitor tire pressure, inspect the tires, and get very consistent mileage from these tires.

Road conditions will affect tire life, as do other factors, but it really isn't a big deal to keep up with tire life expectancy on these tires.

YMMV but base it on facts not conjecture and looks.

BTW, I love the Z's, but noticed in Michelins latest PR ads an * that linked to an independent test of the PR's and other major tires.

This was done by an "independent" tester and they reported the PR's as doing the best in testing.

Haven't checked the actual test data yet, however.

 

[malcolmblalock]

For those unfortunate folks like myself, who live just a bit too far from good curves, the center of the tire wears, while the sides have good rubber. While I like and run the Z6s, the wear bars (yes, I've found and monitored them) are pretty useless. I've taken off two rear Z6s with plenty of rubber above the wear bars but down almost to the cords in the center.

 

I'll still use the Z6s, but have to respectfully disagree that the tire wear indicators have any use for some riders.

 

Wish the curves were closer, but with them being about 140 miles away, they are just a bit too far to get to on a daily basis. IMO, the Z6 would be a great tire if they molded little divots (holes) in the center of the tire to let you see when it needs changing.

[marcopolo]

I'll still use the Z6s, but have to respectfully disagree that the tire wear indicators have any use for some riders. IMO, the Z6 would be a great tire if they molded little divots (holes) in the center of the tire to let you see when it needs changing.

 

Yeah, it reminds me of the dealer trying to convince me that changing the faceshield on an Arai helmet (which I owned) really wasn't a PITA. Then I bought an HJC Carbon and it was a revelation how easy it was to change to a tinted shield on the side of the road.

[stubble!]

With the Z6s it's not just the lack of wear bars, but that they square off so fast and that performance in the latter half of life is dismal compared to the first half. I just got tired of tires shaped like wagon wheels that handled worse.

[jackflash]

If it were me, I would keep the Z6 on the bike and just wear it out given the way you ride. That said, for me, the best place for a Z6 is the trash can. I used one set when I had an R1200RT and the lack of traction was the issue for me. I ride aggressively in the mountains.

 

Contrary to what most people think, I think the Z6 has very good wear bar indicators. Most people just don't know how to use them or even know where they are.

 

I have my first pair of PR2CT's on my K bike and, IMHO, it is the best tire on the market right now. Even with the monster power that gets put to my rear tire, it is setting a record for tire wear right now for me. Until something better comes along, that's my tire.

[Deek]

"...Contrary to what most people think, I think the Z6 has very good wear bar indicators. Most people just don't know how to use them or even know where they are...."

 

So what's the secret? Where are they and how would I use them?

[marcopolo]

"...Contrary to what most people think, I think the Z6 has very good wear bar indicators. Most people just don't know how to use them or even know where they are...."

 

So what's the secret? Where are they and how would I use them?

 

Don't think there's much of a secret. I've had several sets of Z6's on two different bikes. It's easy to find the tread wear indicators (just like any other tire). The only problem (for me, and others) is that the rain grooves do not go all the way across the tire, so the TWIs are near the outer edges of the tire. Unless you spend 95% of your time riding leaned over, you'll have little tread left in the centre of the tire, but the TWI's will suggest you have lots of tread left. It reminds me of the guy in the bike store telling me how easy it is to change the faceshield on my Arai. Eventually you say "BS" and get something else.

[lawnchairboy]

just ordered my second set of PR2's today, 10k+ on the rear, front has another K or two maybe. Quite satisfied with them, best mileage of any tire I have run (Z-6's, Road Attacks, PR2's).

 

chris

[themagicone]

I just learned I put 13,500 on a rear Z6 and it just starting to show the steel belt. I'm very surprised it has made it this far. Ordered a set of PR2's for replacement, I wasn't happy with these Z6's the bike came with.

[Rocer]

This is a timely thread so I've enjoyed following it. Although I ride an R1100RT (purchased late last season) and most of the posters are riding 1200's and I think at least one 1150, I presume I can use either the PR2 or Z6 tires being discussed here on my machine.

 

Presently my RT has Dunlop Sportmax's which I believe are stock to this model. After an 800km jaunt around the block a couple weekends back I was surprised to see the wear bars near tread surface on the front tire. I'm now faced with replacing it and perhaps the rear tire as well.

 

Specs on my tires: front 2.0mm at centre; 3mm half way to side wall

rear 4.5mm " " ; 7mm " " " " "

 

I phoned the nearest dealer and was told the Sportmax has been discontinued and they suggested a Dunlop Road Smart as a replacement. They weren't forthcoming in suggesting alternative brands.

 

Not knowing what the tread depth was at new condition I'm not sure what the % of wear the rear tire is.

 

With this in mind, I would appreciate any advice as to whether I should just change the front tire only at this point. Also, I haven't seen any reference to Dunlops in this thread. Is that because the newer model stock tires are Michelin/Metzler or are they simply an improvement over stock tires. If that's the case then I would consider changing either just the front now and eventually the back both to PR2's if appropriate or both now if necessary.

 

 

[Twisties]

The Roadsmarts are a current offering. The rear is a dual compound tire, the front is not. I just removed a pair off my bike at 4500 miles in April because I didn't think they'd make a 3000 mile trip. Sharon is pulling hers off now for the run out to the UNrally at 6000 miles. Her front is done. Rear still has some life.

 

I didn't much like mine, but thought hers were fine. Go figure.

 

New they come with 6/32" (4.76 mm) tread depth front and 9/32" (7.14 mm) tread depth rear. I believe wear bars are at 2/32" or 1.6 mm. This means your rear has about half it's life left, although your front is close to done.

[RTinNC]

"...Contrary to what most people think, I think the Z6 has very good wear bar indicators. Most people just don't know how to use them or even know where they are...."

 

So what's the secret? Where are they and how would I use them?

 

Don't think there's much of a secret. I've had several sets of Z6's on two different bikes. It's easy to find the tread wear indicators (just like any other tire). The only problem (for me, and others) is that the rain grooves do not go all the way across the tire, so the TWIs are near the outer edges of the tire. Unless you spend 95% of your time riding leaned over, you'll have little tread left in the centre of the tire, but the TWI's will suggest you have lots of tread left. It reminds me of the guy in the bike store telling me how easy it is to change the faceshield on my Arai. Eventually you say "BS" and get something else.

Yeah .... or just never change the damn shield!! Amen to that !

 

[Deek]

"....It's easy to find the tread wear indicators (just like any other tire). The only problem (for me, and others) is that the rain grooves do not go all the way across the tire, so the TWIs are near the outer edges of the tire......"

 

Gotcha. Thanks. Still haven't decided whether to remove the Z6 and put on the new PR2 when the bike goes to the dealer for the 24k service.

[tallman]

No one has ever regretted new shoes.

Or have they?

[johnnash]

Has anyone compared the PR2"B" rear to the regular PR2 rear.The "B" is $30.00 more.Just wondering if there is that much more wear on the PR2"B"

[1LIFE2LIVE]

Has anyone compared the PR2"B" rear to the regular PR2 rear.The "B" is $30.00 more.Just wondering if there is that much more wear on the PR2"B"

 

The "B" is currently out of stock across the nation and is back ordered till mid September; my understanding is that BMW has them made special for two up riding along with saddle bag use for the extra weight on our RT, GT bikes

[Firefight911]

Has anyone compared the PR2"B" rear to the regular PR2 rear.The "B" is $30.00 more.Just wondering if there is that much more wear on the PR2"B"

 

The "B" is currently out of stock across the nation and is back ordered till mid September; my understanding is that BMW has them made special for two up riding along with saddle bag use for the extra weight on our RT, GT bikes

 

That is correct. Both specs are good for use on these bikes per Michelin up to the load capacity of the bikes. Michelin made the tires not BMW, BTW. (tongue in cheek!!!!!!)

[RocksforBrains]

I just ordered a set of PR2 tires (rear tire "B") from Motorcycle Superstore a week ago Thursday. They were in stock and shipped same day. The tires got here the following Monday; two work days. Amazing service especially with free shipping. So the "B" rear tire was in stock a week ago. I don't know if it still is. I'm having the tires mounted today.

 

Kurt

[johnnash]

Has anyone out there compared the wear in miles to the additional dollars for the PR2"B" compared to the regular PR2?

[der Wanderer]

Does the "B" tire bear the mention "reinforced"? What load rating does it show?

Thanks