Cooling vest

[bmwdave152]

http://www.veskimo.com

Has anyone tried this product?

[Jon_M]

I haven't tried it, but it was just reviewed in the MOA Owners' News.

[bakerzdosen]

I have a similar one (the company doesn't seem to be there any more...) and it works pretty well really. The problem is what to do with the cooler/pump. But as a concept (cold water circulating through a vest around your core,) you can't beat it.

[smiller]

I haven't tried it, but it was just reviewed in the MOA Owners' News.

Can you provide a synopsis?

 

Looks very interesting, perhaps both effective and maybe even practical, two characteristics that usually don't go together in this type of product. My concern might be weight/cumbersomeness of the backpack but it appears that you can use an external cooling unit as well. Maybe place that on the passenger seat and be unencumbered? Plus the capacity of the external pack seems to allow for may hours or even all-day use.

 

 

[johnlt]

It is unclear to me how the "heat exchanger" works

[Hermes]

For more or less stationary activity or slow moving bicycles, I can see this product being effective, if somewhat bulky to wear.

 

For a motorcycle, I swear by the evaporator vests. Soak it for 15 minutes and wear it all day. At speed it gets really cold. very comfortable (maybe a bit heavy when fully soaked. So soak it shorter, duh). No batteries, pump, icepacks etc.

[smiller]

It is unclear to me how the "heat exchanger" works

Icewater from a storage tank (which can be wearable bladder or an external tank) flows through tubes in the vest and heat from your body flows to the cold tubes. The water is kept cold via melting ice in the tank and is constantly circulated by an electric pump. This is a very common method for personal cooling devices, from spacesuits to race cars. Eventually the ice melts of course, and at that point the water will warm up and not have any cooling effect so operation is limited to how long the ice lasts. From reports this can be anywhere from 2 hours to many times that, depending on a number of external factors and the size of the icewater reservoir. But all it takes to recharge the unit is ice and a little water, which is commonly available on the road.

 

 

For a motorcycle, I swear by the evaporator vests. Soak it for 15 minutes and wear it all day. At speed it gets really cold. very comfortable (maybe a bit heavy when fully soaked. So soak it shorter, duh). No batteries, pump, icepacks etc.

And no functionality , at least for me. Evaporative vests may work great in Canada but they are not very effective in my neck of the woods.

 

An active cooling system is much more attractive to me. I would have to believe the cooling performance and comfort is night-and-day superior to a wet vest in humid environments (ugh) and adding some ice to the tank every few hours isn't much more effort than finding some cold water for a vest (which lose all effectiveness after 30-60 minutes unless you stop often and keep them really soaked, at least around here.)

[Mr_Ed]

I purchased one last month. I hate the heat and needed to do something more than what an evaporative vest could do for me. I use the vest in combination with the 9 quart tank and so far I am very, very happy.

[smiller]

What kind of run times are you seeing with the 9-quart tank Ed?

[Mr_Ed]

What kind of run times are you seeing with the 9-quart tank Ed?

 

I've yet to fully and properly load the tank with larger blocks of ice so I've seen faster melt rates... even so.. 2/3 loaded with ice cubes from my home freezer I've been able to get 2.5 hours of good solid cooling.

I've also learned that it's important NOT to run the pump all the time. This uses up the ice faster than neccessary and due to vaso constriction you start to lose the sense of being cooled even though you are.

The fellow who tuned me into the Veskimo indicated that he sees 4 to 5 hours from the 9 quart tank.

[Jon_M]

I would have to believe the cooling performance and comfort is night-and-day superior to a wet vest in humid environments (ugh) and adding some ice to the tank every few hours isn't much more effort than finding some cold water for a vest (which lose all effectiveness after 30-60 minutes unless you stop often and keep them really soaked, at least around here.)

 

You are partially right. In a humid environment, an evap vest is not very useful, but in our hot, dry summer climate, the newest Techniche vest works beautifully, and it lasts several hours, easily making it between gas fill-ups. It takes very little time or effort to recharge it. It cost me $40. I use it on my motorcycles and on my bicycle.

[Selden]

Agreed, humidity is critical to the performance of any evaporative cooling system. When it's really hot on a long distance ride, I stop at a fast food joint and wrap a bandana around some cracked ice. Tied around my throat, this immediately cools the blood flow to my brain, and lasts surprisingly long. I've had heat stroke only twice (never in the saddle) and it's not a pleasant experience.

 

I've found plain cloth bandanas more effective (and more generally useful) than the "evapadanas" which have gel beads in them.

[VinnyR11]

What kind of run times are you seeing with the 9-quart tank Ed?

 

I've yet to fully and properly load the tank with larger blocks of ice so I've seen faster melt rates... even so.. 2/3 loaded with ice cubes from my home freezer I've been able to get 2.5 hours of good solid cooling.

I've also learned that it's important NOT to run the pump all the time. This uses up the ice faster than neccessary and due to vaso constriction you start to lose the sense of being cooled even though you are.

The fellow who tuned me into the Veskimo indicated that he sees 4 to 5 hours from the 9 quart tank.

 

This is really helpful. For Ed or anyone else who has actually used this vest....

 

Is the switch for the pump convenient to reach? Can you easily turn it on and off while riding?

 

I know it beats the heat, but the whole package looks pretty bulky and constrictive. Do you find it comfortable to wear?

[brennaman]

With the bladder on the back, it does not look like it would fit under my 'stitch. Are the hoses long enough to strap the bladder to the back of the bike, and just have the vest with the hoses under your jacket or suit?

[smiller]

Looks like you can buy extension hoses, but also appears that if you don't plan on wearing the bladder a better choice might be to get the 9-quart pack instead, which will give you longer runtime.

[Mr_Ed]

My attempt to respond to multiple statements in this discussion thread

 

 

Q: Is the switch for the pump convenient to reach? Can you easily turn it on and off while riding?

A: The Veskimo comes with a cigarette lighter plug (you can cut it off and wire it into a power source as you wish) that has a very, very long wire. Mine is wired into my fuzeblock. The pump doesn't need more than 5 amps. The other end of the wire has the plug that connects to the wire coming out of the external tank. The switch itself is at the end of an 18 inch wire that comes out of the tank. If that section of wire isn't long enough it would be pretty easy to splice in a longer bit..... in short... there's plenty of wire length and everything is easily adjusted. My sense is that Kurt (the owner of Veskimo) would be willing to adjust things before shipping to you... this includes the length of the water tubes that exit the vest and/or the tank.

 

Q: ...the whole package looks pretty bulky and constrictive. Do you find it comfortable to wear?

A: The vest is not bulky. Be aware that the vest does have 4 zones (2 on the chest, 2 on the back) so there are 8 sets of tubes within the vest that move the water. The point where these 8 tubes comes together into a single sheath and then run to/from the tank is a bit thick but it's manageable. You will want to take some time positioning the sheathed tube so that you don't have too much length flopping around. So far I've been experimenting with a couple twist ties to connect the tube to rigid points on the bike so that I know it's secure and not moving around.

 

Q: With the bladder on the back, it does not look like it would fit under my 'stitch. Are the hoses long enough to strap the bladder to the back of the bike, and just have the vest with the hoses under your jacket or suit?

A: (from smiller)Looks like you can buy extension hoses, but also appears that if you don't plan on wearing the bladder a better choice might be to get the 9-quart pack instead, which will give you longer run time.

 

A2: In my opinion Smiller hit the nail on the head. The backpack is nice and a guy I know uses it when he gets off the bike....on bike he uses his 9 quart tank.

 

Anyone who is interested in the veskimo or thinks that they may need something adjusted really should call Kurt. Just use the phone number or email address on the website. I've found him to be responsive and willing to share information.

 

I'd be happy to take a series of pictures for anyone who is interested. Just PM your email address to me. I'd post the pics in this thread but I get a little bored with hosting the pics elsewhere and then embedding the code in the thread.

 

I've noted that how I would run tubes and wires on my GS is VERY different from how someone on an LT would handle things. You do need to think about hose length and if it's likely to touch your exhaust. A guy on an LT doesn't have to worry about that as a result he can connect everything up BEFORE getting on the bike. I have a GS so due to using twist ties to keep the water tube safe I have less play and have to connect the main tube while sitting on the bike. I need to experiment more with tank mounting and tube placement to see what will really work best for me.

 

[Bill_Walker]

With the bladder on the back, it does not look like it would fit under my 'stitch. Are the hoses long enough to strap the bladder to the back of the bike, and just have the vest with the hoses under your jacket or suit?

 

Just to be clear, you do realize that the backpack would be worn on the OUTSIDE of your 'stich, right? You could probably run the hoses out through the side pants pocket opening.

[realshelby]

This is really an interesting set up. I run the evaporative cooling vest but I don't run it often because of the hassle with soaking it and then putting on a wet, slimy feeling, sometimes dripping piece of equipment. I get about 1-1 1/2 hours of effectiveness with it. This doesn't look to be much more bulky than what I have now and may be no more hassle than using my Gerbings heated jacket ( you have to plug it in too!). Much easier to buy a bag of ice when fueling up and dumping it into the cooler ( mounted in the passenger seat area? ) and be good to go till the next fuel stop, or longer! I don't see it listed, I wonder if you can buy the "vest" and the 9 qt cooler as a package?

[smiller]

Much easier to buy a bag of ice when fueling up and dumping it into the cooler ( mounted in the passenger seat area? ) and be good to go till the next fuel stop, or longer!

Just what I was thinking! I've found that soaking an evaporative vest isn't always as simple as it seems, unless you want to soak it in the occasional pretty nasty sink. In those situations I've tried using a plastic bag (fill the bag with water and soak the vest) and that works, but what a PITA. Dumping some ice in a reservoir actually seems a lot easier (not to mention the improved effectiveness of the system overall.)

 

I wish I knew about this product at the beginning of the summer we just had, probably the worst in a decade. I'll definitely be looking into one of these before the next one comes around...

[realshelby]

 

I'll second the hottest summer in a decade. It is one thing to have 100+ temps in the Houston area but day after day with the humidity we have wears me down. You know you've had a hot summer when temps of 92-94 seem cool! We had our first overnight low that was below 80 degrees just a week or so ago.

 

The hoses on the cooling system might be in the way when getting on and off the bike. I was thinking that a "tank bag" setup might be the way to go. I may have to have one of these next season.

[Jazzy]

I'm sorry, but I'm sitting here laughing at someone willing to lug around a $400 18 pound bowling ball and hooking up hoses and wiring to cooling tanks on a motorcycle. If it's that bad out, stay home or take the bloomin' car!

 

Geeze!

 

If you are that concerned with riding in the heat and high humidity, go buy a phase-change vest (bunch of them out there). Packs are smaller, weigh much less, and can fit them under your gear. They'll freeze in a refrigerator (not freezer) and spare packs can freeze enroute in a six-pack beer cooler with ice out of a hotel ice machine, or re-use the old ice in the pre-packed cooler if you had stored the secondary packs in it. The DOT guys wear them as do some Cal-Trans dudes standing on the highways directing traffic in CA construction zones. They last about 2 hours on a charge in 100 degree heat and not clammy like a wet-vest.

 

Jazzy

[realshelby]

I'm sorry, but I'm sitting here laughing at someone willing to lug around a $400 18 pound bowling ball and hooking up hoses and wiring to cooling tanks on a motorcycle. If it's that bad out, stay home or take the bloomin' car!

 

Geeze!

 

If you are that concerned with riding in the heat and high humidity, go buy a phase-change vest (bunch of them out there). Packs are smaller, weigh much less, and can fit them under your gear. They'll freeze in a refrigerator (not freezer) and spare packs can freeze enroute in a six-pack beer cooler with ice out of a hotel ice machine, or re-use the old ice in the pre-packed cooler if you had stored the secondary packs in it. The DOT guys wear them as do some Cal-Trans dudes standing on the highways directing traffic in CA construction zones. They last about 2 hours on a charge in 100 degree heat and not clammy like a wet-vest.

 

Jazzy

Jazzy,not sure what the difference is between a bowling ball and all the stuff you would have to pack along to keep a phase change vest going. Like an evaporative vest there is a limit to how long they remain effective. The vest in this thread would be much more compact under clothing and a simple hook up of quick disconnect fittings puts you on the way. The ability to turn the pump off and on is a big plus. A bag of ice at the convenience store, fill the cooler, and be on your way. No recharging the packs or soaking the vest.

[Jazzy]

(in response to realshelby)

 

Really?

 

So I guess some poor bloke standing at the side of the road with a battery pack for a pump, a bunch of hoses, a switch, and 18+ pounds worth of partially-frozen water in a tank (that will need to be frozen at 32 degrees or less at some point) isn't odd?

 

Phase-Change packs will freeze at a higher temp., and if you want the extra packs, toss the damn things in a refrigerator - no freezer needed. Nothing says you have to carry them. Unlike this $400 thing, no pumps, no wiring, no hoses, and no 18+ pounds of weight.

 

If you can make it in two hours (a tank-of-gas run for me), with the phase-change you have no need for any of the tanks, wiring, or hoses. This posted thing is way overboard for $400. I carry my vest and pack in the saddlebag in a thin foil re-usable ice cream bag from the local grocery store and I'll use it if needed. Stays frozen most of the day in there (due to newer dual-walled BMW bags) along with a frozen drinking-water bottle for me. If I am on the road more than 2 hours, I may go to the ice-chest and spare packs where I can charge them later or while riding (via a switch-a-roo). You can't do that if you're dragging a $400 bowling-ball thing with wiring, hoses, vest, switches, and a lot of cold water. Egad Man!

 

As I said, they (phase-change) are being used by the road workers. If they used the pump, wiring hose, battery, and vest they would probably toss it. It's just too cumbersome to wear and hook up. Blow a fitting and get a leak, or get an electrical malfunction and you're toast.

 

Cripes. Next you Yanks will be trying to freeze water in the saddlebags and running pipes and hoses and pumping stuff through them and then asking "How to I wire it all into my Centech fuse block?"

 

Jazzy...hint: the first bloke (post #3) to sell these is gone.

[smiller]

Jazzy... don't buy one.

[EddyQ]

Jazz, how about a real cooling system with refridgerant and wind powered compressor !! Propeller off each shoulder!

 

I can't see paying $360 for this setup. The concept is ok, but not great. Why not combine the evaporative concept with the water vest? Put a evaporator on the bike rack. Get rid of the electric stuff and replace with a natural density feed.

For that $$, it could and should be better.

[bakerzdosen]

Jazzy...hint: the first bloke (post #3) to sell these is gone.

FWIW... they were never marketed to motorcycle riders. They were marketed to firefighters and workers that had to endure a lot of heat for hours at a time.

 

That sounded good to me when I saw them on ebay for $130ish, I figured, hey, why not try it? When I saw some guy on advrider who claimed to work at NASA say that water cooling was the best available, that kinda sealed the deal.

 

When I've used it, I've always felt like it's lived up to my expectations.