Seafoam vs. Sta-bil

[Kannon]

I'm about to put the lawn mowers down for a winter nap and wondering if Seafoam is as good a fuel stabilizer as the old standard Sta-bil. I have always used Sta-bil but happen to have Seafoam on hand at the moment. Seafoam seems to be marketed as kind of an all purpose fuel conditioner with a stabilizer, whereas Sta-bil seems to be a single purpose additive for long term fuel stabilization and storage. Any difference? What do you all use?

 

Thanks,

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Nothing. Bought mower in spring 2002, never used fuel stabilizer. After 7.5 years, mower is still healthy.

 

Likewise, R1100RT sat through ten Michigan winters without the benefit of stabilizer. Sold it this spring with no issues. Plan to continue this policy with my new R1200RT.

 

If stabilizer really is necessary, when should I start to expect trouble with any of these engines?

[Albert]

I'm not a user either. My old Lawnboy (probably 20 years old) has spent every PA winter in my unheated shed in the backyard. LIkewise all my bikes have lived in my unheated garage for over 40 years without issue.

[OoPEZoO]

I love Seafoam, its a great product.........BUT, I also use nothing when I park things for the winter. Maybe if I was parking something for an extended (1+ year) storage I would consider it, but not for just a few months over the winter.

[RBertalotto]

With the addition of alcohol in fuels in the last few years, sometimes as much as 20%, all bets are off with leaving fuel in fuel tanks for more than a couple months. Gasoline has become extremely "hydroscopic" (sp?)

 

I know the marine industry is having huge issues with this.

 

Be sure the fuel tank is completely full, zero air. Any air space will lead to condensation.

 

Sea foam is what all the marine folks are using near here.

[John Ranalletta]

It seems simpler to just empty the tanks and run them dry. I've a recalcitrant shredder w/ a Briggs motor. Because of infrequent use, it was a very hard starter. Since I've been running it to empty, the starting problem has gone away.

[Smoky]

I used Sta-Bil in my boat at the end of the season, filled that big tank, and added Sta-bil.

 

But it sat for many months, out in the cold, with wild temp swings. Lots of chance for condensation.

 

My 'vette and the bikes get nothing added, but stay in my shop for their winter nap, and it doesn't freeze in there. Plus they are off the road for only 4 or 5 months.

 

I just let the lawn mower run out of gas, and the other tools are 2-strokes, and I just leave the fuel in them.

 

This has worked for me for many years.

[ltljohn]

It seems simpler to just empty the tanks and run them dry. I've a recalcitrant shredder w/ a Briggs motor. Because of infrequent use, it was a very hard starter. Since I've been running it to empty, the starting problem has gone away.

 

+1 I just empty the tank and run them dry. Never a problem.

[outpost22]

With all the new ethanol issues, I use stabilizer in all my stored fuels. I use Stabil and THIS product.

 

I would not suggest leaving fuels unattended for more than 60 days in this day and age of fuel injection and ethanol.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

I would not suggest leaving fuels unattended for more than 60 days in this day and age of fuel injection and ethanol.

 

What's gonna happen?

[outpost22]

I would not suggest leaving fuels unattended for more than 60 days in this day and age of fuel injection and ethanol.

 

What's gonna happen?

 

Well, there are some (me included) that believe this will happen:

 

Ethanol has a great affinity for water, and will attract moisture from the atmosphere through the vented lines of a fuel tank. The water molecules form an electro-chemical bond with the ethanol that is stronger than the fuel’s original bond with the ethanol. Water is heavier than gas so the water/ethanol molecule is dragged to the bottom of the tank and separates from the more buoyant fuel molecules. This is referred to as phase separation and occurs when the water content in the fuel reaches roughly .5%. Ethanol provides a significant boost to the octane rating of the fuel, so when phase separation occurs you end up with a corrosive water/ethanol layer on the bottom of the tank, under what is now substandard fuel.

 

After having ethanol blends here since about 1991, and the problems in my fuel sytems associated with it, I prefer to error on the safe(er) side.

 

[tomk99r11]

May not be necessary to some, but sure is cheap enough addition and won't hurt anything. I have been using SeaFoam for several years although it is more expensive than StaBil.

[enfoman]

I would not suggest leaving fuels unattended for more than 60 days in this day and age of fuel injection and ethanol.

 

What's gonna happen?

 

Phase seperation.......

 

Alot of gumming up and attacks of the blobs..... I am cleaning out and sealing my gas tank on my vintage car after finding a bunch of blobs of gell in the fuel. I found out that this is called.....

 

Phase seperation

 

 

Bob

[russell_bynum]

I would not suggest leaving fuels unattended for more than 60 days in this day and age of fuel injection and ethanol.

 

What's gonna happen?

 

I've never had an issue on a fuel injected motor, but I know that if I leave any thing with a carb sitting for more than a month or so, the float sticks and the carb drips fuel for a while....sometimes requiring me to disassemble and clean the carb.

 

This goes for everything from my pressure washer to the dirt bikes. Interestingly, Lisa's DR200SE seems to be the least sensitive. The FZR600 is the worst.

 

The fix seems to be running the carb dry (including pumping the throttle to empty the accelerator pump, where applicable) before shutting down. I'm not sure if seafoam or sta-bil would help or not.

[E30TECH]

I'm about to put the lawn mowers down for a winter nap and wondering if Seafoam is as good a fuel stabilizer as the old standard Sta-bil. I have always used Sta-bil but happen to have Seafoam on hand at the moment. Seafoam seems to be marketed as kind of an all purpose fuel conditioner with a stabilizer, whereas Sta-bil seems to be a single purpose additive for long term fuel stabilization and storage. Any difference? What do you all use?

 

Thanks,

 

I have heard sta-bil isn't as effective with the ethanol blended fuels. I haven't seen it first hand, but I use Sea Foam.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

I've never had an issue on a fuel injected motor, but I know that if I leave any thing with a carb sitting for more than a month or so, the float sticks and the carb drips fuel for a while....sometimes requiring me to disassemble and clean the carb.

 

This goes for everything from my pressure washer to the dirt bikes. Interestingly, Lisa's DR200SE seems to be the least sensitive. The FZR600 is the worst.

 

Seems there is a large engine-to-engine variability, as evidenced by your equipment and my lawn mower. Any thoughts on why that might be?

[russell_bynum]

Seems there is a large engine-to-engine variability, as evidenced by your equipment and my lawn mower. Any thoughts on why that might be?

 

Crappy tree-hugger California Prius food vs. Real gasoline in MI?

 

[CoarsegoldKid]

Chemically I really don't have any idea what is happening with fuel degradation. SOme formulations may require stabilization. My Husky mower hasn't seen stabilizer and starts right up each spring. I had a Honda Sabre that sat for 9 years with fuel in the tank. A new battery and it started right up, engine ran fine, and sold it. Hated to part with it.

[OoPEZoO]

Seems there is a large engine-to-engine variability, as evidenced by your equipment and my lawn mower. Any thoughts on why that might be?

 

Crappy tree-hugger California Prius food vs. Real gasoline in MI?

 

Speaking of which, and a complete hijack......

 

I managed to find a gas station directly on my afternoon commute that has a nice sign outside that says 0% Ethenal!

I stopped to ask the gas attendant and he said the owner is a muscle car/motorcycle guy and got the sh*ts of dealing with crappy gas, so now he contracts through a Ethenal free gas supplier. I'm still on my first tank through my Jeep, and haven't put it in the bike yet. I'm interested to see if my mileage changes at all.

[KDeline]

How long do you let them sit? I only started using Sta-bil because I leave bikes north and south that will not move for 6 or more months. Am I wasting my money and time adding it?

[RBertalotto]

If I let a bike sit for more than 90 days in a situation where the temperatures swung up and down, I'd add Seafoam or Starbrite.....It's too easy and too inexpensive to not do it.

[outpost22]

It's certainly cheap insurance.

 

The stuff only costs what? $5-$15.00 depending what you buy and it's good for how many gallons of gas? It goes a long way.

 

I sometimes fill my bikes from 5 gal. containers, especially if they are used for short day rides and I want to top them off before leaving. I just add the stabilizer to the containers every time they are filled, 'cuz you never know how long it will be until it's used up.

 

 

[sardineone]

Jumping in a bit late with my experience. Several years back I kept my aging Moto Guzzi with carbs instead of trading in on the newer bike. With a new 'A' bike, my older one didn't get the occaisional ride in the Winter as in the past. The next Spring my low speed jets were definitely clogged shut on the Guzzi. Not too big of a deal to clean on the Guzzi as I'm my own mechanic. Since then I've used Sta-bil in my bike's fuel tanks starting in the Fall and had no reoccurrence. Can't comment on the effectiveness of the Seafoam as I haven't tried it.

[NoHeat]

FWIW, what Exxon says:

 

How long can gasoline be stored?

There is no single answer to the question of how long gasoline can be kept in storage, because the answer depends upon the conditions under which it is stored. Gasoline in storage can change in two primary ways. It can lose light ends (volatile components) and/or it can oxidize. In addition, gasolines blended with ethanol can absorb water and separate into a gasoline layer and another water/alcohol layer.

 

Gasoline should generally be used within a month of purchase. When the engine will not be used for an extended period of time, the conservative approach is to drain the fuel tank and then run the engine until it stalls. If you choose to store gasoline, keep it in very nearly full (minimizing air contact) tightly sealed metal containers (minimizing the loss of light ends and the availability of humid air) in a cool environment (slowing down the rate of oxidation). Be sure to leave some room in the container to allow for some expansion. Under these conditions, the gasoline would be expected to remain of good quality for at least 6 months.

 

http://www.exxon.com/USA-English/GFM/Products_Services/Fuels/Gasoline_FAQ.asp

[Selden]

Does anybody know what's actually IN these two products (aside from red dye in Sta-bil)?

 

As far as I can see from a little googling around:

 

Sta-bil

Proprietary or trade secret ingredient(s) 5%

Hydrotreated light naphthenic distillate solvent extract 95%

 

Seafoam:

40-60%: Pale Oil

25-35%: Naphtha

10-20%: Isopropyl alcohol

 

[EddyQ]

I would not suggest leaving fuels unattended for more than 60 days in this day and age of fuel injection and ethanol.

 

What's gonna happen?

 

I was a believer of doing absolutely nothing til a few years ago when my carbs on the Yamaha roadstar got gummed up after about 6 months of very little use. It wasn't even a winter storage issue. I simply was moving my residence (plus other things)and didn't have time to ride.

 

So far, my RT has been driven til snow hits (late November) and back on the road in April with Sta-bil with no issues. My lawn tractor gets the same treatment. The bottle of stabil lasts quite a while and isn't much $$. Donno if it is doing much, but I know it isn't hurting much.

 

BTW, I've heard quite a few stories of stuck float valves in boats/lawn movers caused by running them dry for storage. I believe it is best to keep the carb valves wet all winter.

[mswanton]

I never had a problem with my lawn mower or generator until I used Sta-Bil. I only used it one winter and that was about 5 years ago.

 

All the Harley guys swear by it. That is another reason I'll never use it again.

 

I neither top it off or run them dry. I fill them before their next use. lawn tractor lawn mower weed whacker powerwasher chainsaw aircompressor generator 3 bikes all get the same amount of abuse and neglect.

[NoHeat]

Does anybody know what's actually IN these two products (aside from red dye in Sta-bil)?

 

An anti-oxidant additive is the only thing that would serve any purpose, I think.

 

See the post above re. Exxon: Pure gasoline goes stale two ways: evaporation of the lightest components, and oxidation.

 

An additive could do something about the oxidation, but not evaporation. I think it's oxidation that leads to the formation of gum.

 

Google the words

antioxidant gasoline additive

and you'll find plenty of explanations of the chemistry, like this one:

http://www.chemistryexplained.com/Fe-Ge/Gasoline.html

[JerryF]

 

I have been using 50/1 pre mix in my equip. Never had any issues after the long south dakota winters. 50/1 in a four stroke won't smoke and you get a little top end lubrication to boot. It's cheap and I always have it around anyways due to the lawn equip. in fact I run my 1991 honda mower on 50/1. I have never cleaned my carb or changed a plug. 19 years and that mower starts in 2-3 pulls after a 6-7 month nap.

[Paul Mihalka]

The little oil containers that have the oil for a 50/1 mix usually have some Stabil already in them. Check the label to make sure.

[Lmar]

I have used Sta-bil for many years in my bikes. I keep the tank full of fuel, put the required Sta-bil in the tank and run the bike for 5 minutes or so to distribute the Sta-bil. I store my bike in my under slab heated garage at 10 C.

 

Our winters here can be fairly lengthy. I have never had any problems in the spring.

[AviP]

I've never used any fuel stabilizer. I take turns riding/driving all my vehicles at least once every 4-6 weeks. So far they all start up on demand and don't seem to have any fuel issues.