Heated gear question

[14kmtnman]

Would a heated jacket liner/gloves help keep my legs & toes warmer? I ask because I went for a ride this past Sunday down hwy 105 to Monument (about 50 miles) & got pretty cold. Not to the point of shivering, just really cold all over. Granted, the sun was shining and the temps were in the mid 30's. As you know, the RT has good wind protection. After eating lunch in Monument I put the goretex liner in my Motoport pants & threw on a fleece jacket under my lined Tourmaster jacket. On the way back I was still cool. I could feel the sun on my back, but my legs & feet (wool socks, Sidi Boots) were still cold. It did take several hours to warm up once home. Did I wait too long to ad extra layers? On my Christmas wish list is the Tourmaster heated jacket & gloves. Just wanting some real world advice about heated gear,

[Woodie]

Yes. Keeping the core warm keeps everything else warmer as well.

 

I use just the heated jacket liner + grips, and then just regular jacket/gloves/pants, and I can stay pretty comfy down into the 20s.

 

[T__]

14kmtnman, obviously anything you do warmth wise to keep your core body temperature up will help against cold feet & legs but that can only go so far.. Cold feet are my down fall in cold weather riding (I’m talking sub 20°f here).. I have worn heated socks in the past & those things are a pain to use & to keep from wadding up.. Something as simple as tossing a couple of chemical toe warmers that hunters use in your boots will definitely help keep the feet warm..

 

I have lately been using heated boot insoles & those while not being perfect go a long ways towards helping the feet warm.. They use very little power & do keep the bottom of the feet warm.. So far I haven’t needed heated pants as a heated jacket & heated feet seem to be enough even down to 0°f..

 

My biggest issue now is keeping my helmet from fogging at high humidity sub 20°f days with no sun..

 

Try to get something to heat your feet & see if that is enough to prevent cold legs..

 

Twisty

 

[Albert]

Slight preface to my answer. I have several friends that refer to me as a polar bear when it comes to cold weather riding. I'm not bothered much in cold weather motorcycling until we get below 25 degrees F. I will typically ride into the low 30's before bothering to put a pair of overpants on. Usually what prevents my winter riding is ice/snow/salt or the threat of it. Knowing that, take this for what it's worth.

 

I find that keeping your core warm will affect the rest of you. If you have the vest/jacket pumping in heat, you'll avoid (or stave off) your hands/feet/legs getting cold. It's not a panacea but there's a big difference. The reverse is true to a lesser extent. That is, if you keep your hands and feet warm, your body will tend to stay warm longer too.

 

I have a Tourmaster vest that I like. I also have heated gloves but I simply don't use them anymore. It's just a hassle running wires down my sleeves to hook them up. If they connected to the jacket at the sleeves it would probably be a different story. I find the heated grips on the RT are all I really need. That said, in absolute cold conditions (especially if it's wet), there's no substitute for electric gloves.

 

 

[OoPEZoO]

Yes. Keeping the core warm keeps everything else warmer as well.

 

I use just the heated jacket liner + grips, and then just regular jacket/gloves/pants, and I can stay pretty comfy down into the 20s.

 

+1 here. I ride year round here in PA/MD unless there is ice out (learned my lesson about that the hard way)

 

My commute is a 57 miles one way, and takes about an hour +/- 15 minutes. Down to the upper 20's I'm good with adding my Gerbings jacket liner w/ normal jacket and gloves. When it gets colder I add a lightweight fleece over the jacket liner.

 

Adding the Gerbings liner a few years ago made all the difference. I used to put on 3 layers under my Jacket, and could make the trip but my fingers and toes used to feel like they were about to fall off. That setup never kept me warm, it just allowed me stand the cold. Once I addded the Gerbings, everything stays warm and I truly stay toasty warm. I was always sceptical about how well heated gear worked. Then I landed a lightly used one and thought I'd try it. It honestly was a HUGE eye opening experience. I've thought about getting gloves as well, but I really don't want to mess with the extra wires.

[Paul Mihalka]

"My biggest issue now is keeping my helmet from fogging at high humidity sub 20°f days with no sun"

 

The only real solution for that is a pin-lock fog resistant insert. It is standard on Nolan helmets (that's what I got) and available for others.

[tallman]

Pinlock is great.

They can be retrofitted to some other brands, like HJC.

I've had good luck w/Cat Crap, others haven't.

 

Keith,

Get the gloves!

Trust me.

The wires aren't an issue and the warmth is great.

[Nice n Easy Rider]

Pinlock is great.

They can be retrofitted to some other brands, like HJC.

I've had good luck w/Cat Crap, others haven't.

 

Keith,

Get the gloves!

Trust me.

The wires aren't an issue and the warmth is great.

The Service Pavillion is now offering Pinlock for Arai helmets as well.

http://www.theservicepavilion.com/

[Linz]

I've had really great success with CatCrap on the inside of my eyeglasses and visor where fogging is concerned.

 

I'm terrible where my feet are concerned. Gerbings electric socks were the only answer. I bought two battery packs and an on-off switch as I didn't want to fight with permanent wiring just for the odd very cold winter rides that I do.

 

A winter ride for me will be 6-7 hours, at night on a freeway at minus 1-5 Celcius to visit my parents. The feet thing could make me cry.

 

Linz

[scaudy]

I hate these posts. Makes me feel bad for wanting a heated liner in So Cal when I hear the temps you all ride in. I mean it was like in the 40's this morning for part of my commute and I thought it was cold.

[johnlt]

I have both the original Gerbing heated gloves as well as a pair of the Gerbing heated glove liners. The heated gloves work fine but are very bulky. The heated liners worn inside a waterproof rain shell (I use Olympia) is by far the warmest and not too bulky. Both convienently plug into the sockets on the end of the Gerbings liner.

[Skywagon]

I am an admitted wimp in the cold. When it hits 50 here, on goes the Gerbing. I have ridden with it for hours with temps as low as 19F. It does a fine job for the core, but my hands and toes were very cold. I am adding heated gloves this year and perhaps some boot liners.

 

Anybody have a recommendation for boot liners?

[T__]

Clip~

 

Anybody have a recommendation for boot liners?

 

Skywagon, I have the Gerbings heated insoles.. I’m not sure I have seen any actual boot liners.. I am somewhat happy with the heated insoles,, they draw very little power to operate,, they are way more comfortable to walk on all day than the older heated socks that bunched up & the wires were difficult to walk on for more than a short time.. Heated socks are a real mess after you wash them as the wires go all crazy & end up in one spot,, the wires are also hard on the feet to walk on for more than a short while.. My Gerbings heated insoles are quite comfortable to walk on (you don’t even know they are wired)

 

They seem to have a couple of shortcomings through..

-They only heat the foot bottoms so if you have tight boots or get cold toes they are a little limited in that department..

-For the heated inserts to work correctly you can’t wear real heavy socks so that is self defeating to some extent..

-They need to be operated at near full power so you need a dual controller as you probably won’t want to run your jacket liner (or heated vest) at that high of a setting.. The good news here is the heated insoles seem to operate at about the same heat setting as my Gerbings heated gloves so they can both be on the same controller circuit..

-Mine seem to work best in boots with removable insoles as I can remove the standard insoles & replace them with the heated insoles.. (otherwise adding the heated insoles over the standard insoles will make the boots tighter)

 

My heated insoles seem to operate better on bikes that have floor boards as the boot soles have more even contact with my feet that way.. On foot peg bikes they still work OK but I sort of have to keep moving my feet around on the pegs to keep hot spots from forming right at the peg area of the boot..

 

They do work & while I can’t say my feet feel like being in a heated foot massage my feet don’t get bitter cold like when just wearing boots & insulated socks used to..

 

One thing I do really like is after I get off the bike & walk a little the heat in the insoles stays with my feet for a while so I don’t get that post ride cold feet that won’t ever warm up syndrome..

 

Twisty

 

[Skywagon]

thanks Twisty1. Thanks for the detailed description with the pro's and con's. I think I have to try a pair. I already have the new dual controller for my jacket.

 

Is there someone on the board who is a gerbings dealer. Would like to keep the purchase in the family.

[elkroeger]

Would a heated jacket liner/gloves help keep my legs & toes warmer?

 

In a word: yes. Although electric pants and socks might be more effective.

 

I would add to all the good comments that INSULATION makes more difference (to me anyway) than the electric gear. I always use my gerbings jacket under a fleece or primaloft jacket (with an aerostich over everything...). For my legs, 6 months out of the year I wear flannel lined jeans, and big thick wool ski socks. During the dead of winter I'll add long johns, neck gaiter and balaclava. I've got this AWESOME red union suit with the drop-seat rear end....

 

For me, it seems sensless to use electric gear without first having the insulation in place.

[moshe_levy]

FYI I'm in the midst of a pretty major heated gear comparison test for MCN. Should be out in a few months but I'm still doing the real world testing, and finally we're in the 30s during the morning commute, so I can really feel the equipment performing.

 

I'll tell you that beyond the mandatory heated gear, I'm a new convert to the high tech liners premium jackets come with. Today I did a back to back comparison in sub-40 temps between my full winter Firstgear Kilimanjaro (first generation) with its full, thick fleece liner - and my new BMW AirShell (essentially a warm weather mesh jacket) with its high tech, thin windproof liner. Damned if I wasn't much warmer in the AirShell, despite the fact that it's a lightweight summer jacket. I credit the liner. Took it out and I froze within 2 miles, whereas the fleece only slightly supplements the Kili.

 

The newer whiz-bang fabrics that are out now allow much better insulation at a fraction of the bulk and weight (and therefor interference of movement) compared to the old-style multi-layering of years ago. After trying for myself, I am a believer!

 

-MKL

[TonyS]

Heated gear are certainly a must for cold weather; when you first feel that heat on your torso it makes you want to take a deep breath just to push out against it. Do you wear some sort of neck gaiter or preferably a balaclava? Either is crucial. My gear is also Motoport (jacket as well). I've found even with the liners in I'm not as warm as I'd like, although this can be a great feature in the summer. On a recent trip I donned the rain jacket and triple-digit glove covers and found I did not need the heated vest even when I was riding in sub freezing (noted by the fog condensing as frost on the windscreen) overcast weather. A lot more air moves past or through the jacket than I had realized.

[elkroeger]

...I'm a new convert to the high tech liners premium jackets come with....

 

I get the impression you're talking about Gore Windstopper, or it's equivalent. Yup, great stuff. I use that skiing and bicycling quite a bit, and like most folks, I love it. Schoeller, in particular, is just incredible!

 

I would add however, that they do have a weakness. I find that when the weather turns wet (rather often where I live), it's not so great. Usually those windstopper (aka "soft-shell") garments aren't really waterproof like a regular rain shell. Some are. Anyway, there's the urge to just add a goretex shell for the rain, but it's just too much, and I always get uncomfortably humid inside all of that. Too much of a good thing I guess....

[OoPEZoO]

moshe_levy.......I have to 100% agree with you there.

 

I replaced my First Gear Kenya jacket (basicly a first generation waist length Kilimanjaro) that had the same thick bulky fleece lining with a new First Gear Kathmandu this past year. I was concerned with the thckness of the liner, but after a few sub-freezing temperature commutes I can say that it works just as well if not better than the old liner, and is only about 1/4-1/3 as thick. Not having all that extra bulk under my jacket makes all the difference for me. I hated the restricted movement (especially around my neck) that my old setup caused.

[Woodie]

OoPEZoO: Do you use a heated liner under the Kathmandu + it's liner?

 

I really like the features of the Kathmandu, as a 2-3 season jacket to complement the summer-weight Olympia I already have.

 

[Motodan]

The more heat the better, but can anyone tell me the limit of my

2009 R1200GS canbus system to support this load? I understand there is a 5-amp limit...is that enough to heat two fingers or will it do a jacket, pants, gloves and socks....or something in between?

[johnlt]

The 5 amp limit is when plugged into the BMW socket. If wired directly to the battery, no problem with much larger loads. The Alternator will handle a very large load and can support many lights as well as 2 up heated clothing. The exact amount is a function of what you have hooked up already but typically, it is not a problem. I believe the total capacity for my 07RT is 720 watts.

[EffBee]

The 5 amp limit is when plugged into the BMW socket. If wired directly to the battery, no problem with much larger loads. The Alternator will handle a very large load and can support many lights as well as 2 up heated clothing. The exact amount is a function of what you have hooked up already but typically, it is not a problem. I believe the total capacity for my 07RT is 720 watts.

Exactly. BMW's have massive alternator output. That the factory chose to wire the accessory port with a 5-amp limit and to load that limit into the CANbus code is a puzzle. But tens of thousands of BMW riders go battery-direct using the manufacturer-provided battery harnesses that come with heated clothing, and things seem to work fine for them.

[OoPEZoO]

OoPEZoO: Do you use a heated liner under the Kathmandu + it's liner?

 

I really like the features of the Kathmandu, as a 2-3 season jacket to complement the summer-weight Olympia I already have.

 

yup, its a perfect compliment for me, and that is how I use it. I will wear it from Oct-May, then switch to my Savannah 2 jacket for the summer. The liner is some kind of quilted synthetic that zips into place (so it stays put) but it is also slippery so sliding your arms into it while wearing something underneath is a non issue. It doesn't get all bunched up in the sleeves like my Kenya jacket did. I end up putting on and removing the jacket w/ zipped in liner and heated liner all at once. Slide the whole thing on like a normal jacket, 2 zippers plus a snap at the neck and I'm out the door. When take it off, I slide it all off as one and hang it on one hanger. So far, it is the easiest setup I've had for commuting. No fuss at all and I don't feel it is nearly as bulky as my old setup.

[FLrider]

My biggest issue now is keeping my helmet from fogging at high humidity sub 20°f days with no sun..

 

 

Johnson & Johnson baby shampoo. Wipe on both sides, rinse and go. Divers trick.

[moshe_levy]

Also, a trick I learned from Tom Cutter, you can cut a potato in half and rub the juice on the shield. Works like a charm, but smells worse than the Pro City anti-fog shield which also works well.

 

-MKL

[T__]

I have pin-lock inner shield capability in 2 of my helmets.. While the pin-lock does help the fogging somewhat I just can’t stand looking through the extra layer of plastic,, especially looking into the sun or at on-coming headlights,, or at peripheral while moving..

 

The potato thing works somewhat but it leaves starch residue on the shield that again I just hate looking through..

 

Same with the baby shampoo as that also leaves a smeary mess that is very distracting with on-coming headlights or into the sun..

 

The best I have found (for me) so far is to use Foamy Shaving cream as I can buff that out to not be too disruptive.. Plus it smells like I just had a high dollar shave.. Even this will fog at very low temps & high humidity but is much better than nothing at all.. The Foamy works just great at higher temps in the rain or high humidity riding..

 

If I crack my shield slightly open the fogging is not a problem but at 10°-15° & high speeds I prefer a fully closed up helmet so fogging then becomes a real problem..

 

I guess if I ever get serious I would look into a Snowmobile helmet with an external breathing tube & warm air intake..

 

 

Twisty

 

[OoPEZoO]

I guess if I ever get serious I would look into a Snowmobile helmet with an external breathing tube & warm air intake..

 

I have seriously considered this, and will most likely do it at some point. HJC actually makes a helmet that swaps back and forth between regular and snowmobile style visor and they are dirt cheap plus DOT & Snell certified (if you believe in that sort of thing). LINK

[Eric S]

Twisty1, do you ride year round in Michigan? Do you just do short trips? And of course, what do you do about snow?

[krussell]

I guess if I ever get serious I would look into a Snowmobile helmet with an external breathing tube & warm air intake..

 

I have seriously considered this, and will most likely do it at some point. HJC actually makes a helmet that swaps back and forth between regular and snowmobile style visor and they are dirt cheap plus DOT & Snell certified (if you believe in that sort of thing). LINK

 

I'm wearing a Scorpion EXO-400, and they have an electric visor that you can snap on and off. It's $85. I'm super tempted.

[jfremder]

I guess if I ever get serious I would look into a Snowmobile helmet with an external breathing tube & warm air intake..

 

I have seriously considered this, and will most likely do it at some point. HJC actually makes a helmet that swaps back and forth between regular and snowmobile style visor and they are dirt cheap plus DOT & Snell certified (if you believe in that sort of thing). LINK

 

FWIW, twin lens snowmobile visors are very thin compared to a motorcycle visor. Not sure they'd hold up as well to a frontal assault from a rock, etc.

 

•Convert any HJC helmet which uses a model HJ09 shield to a snowmobile/cold weather helmet with this dual lens shield.

•Fits all Joe Rocket RKT 101 helmets

•Dual lens is super fog resistant

•This shield is not DOT approved for street use

[OoPEZoO]

Thats funny, the helmet is certified but the visor is not. I see the non-DOT for the two visors they sell, but when you look at the complete helmet it doesn't mention it at all. You would think that they would list that on the info for the helmet as well.

[T__]

Twisty1, do you ride year round in Michigan? Do you just do short trips? And of course, what do you do about snow?

 

Eric, I wish I could ride all year.. Some years I can almost make it but that is pretty darn rare..

 

As you know,, being in Michigan we can have years with lots of snow or years with lots of cold but not a great many snow falls.. You guys on the west side seem to have a lot more snow than us east siders.. Like today,, I rode about 60 miles this morning (a few icy spots but not unridable) & I’ll bet you shoveled about 8” of snow this morning..

 

 

As far as riding short runs or longer runs that depends on the current road conditions & the forecasted road conditions where I’m riding to..

Early season (before the ground is frozen) I usually don’t let a light snow forecast bother me as the roads will melt pretty quickly & the chance of road ice is much less.. Once the weather stays below freezing for long enough to freeze the ground I am much more careful about riding in or just after it snows as black ice is a real concern..

 

They clean the freeways up pretty quickly around here so if I get a stretch of weather with no snow or re-freezing I will ride somewhat long distances mostly on the freeways..

Problem is,, I usually ride north to visit family or friends & you know what the weather is like in northern Michigan it’s like being in another country (think Siberia)..

 

 

Twisty

 

[elkroeger]

Hey that HJC dual lens electically heated shield is pretty neat.

 

But I'm not sure I see the advantage of a snowmobile shield, as opposed to a standard m/c shield with a pinlock. I mean, they're both 2 layer, so you'd still have those annoying reflections, right?

[T__]

Elkroeger, I wasn’t talking about a heated face shield that came from another poster. I am/was talking about a helmet with cold weather breathing tubes for exhale.. (see picture)

 

Linky

 

Twisty