HID performance in Hella FF50s OR best budget-minded lighting solution?

[Jameseo]

I have a 1997 RT and commute in the countryside at night in a deer infested area. My current setup is a 35W 6000k HID conversion in my factory headlight location with a set of PIAAs under the oil cooler. Since I lost my high beam with the update to HID, the PIAAs now serve that function. As we all know, the PIAAs look "nice" but just don't cut it as a high beam for rural night driving. To make matters worse, I had to aim down the headlamp due to the HID intensity.

 

So, I'm looking for the best performing, most affordable, somewhat well integrated lighting solution for my RT; in that order. Anyone who has found such an animal, please let me know.

 

I'm considering fab'ing EMP-like brackets and mounting a set of Hella FF50s with 50W 6000k HID lamps. Anyone out there who has used this setup? How do you feel about the light coverage, paired with the OEM headlamp? How do the FF50s respond to HID? Any adverse effects? How's the intensity? Please share your thoughts.

 

I'm not stuck on this specific configuration and don't have any of the components to achieve it yet. So, again, if there are better solutions, bring it.

 

Thanks,

James

 

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

Does the 97RT have only a two prong H4?

My 99 has a three prong socket and I put in the H4-3 Bi-zenon from vvme.com and love the high beam. It is augmented with Wally world driving lamps.

My deer hate it because they sit there by the side of the road telling their drunk deer buddies to watch while they scare the crap out of the motorcycle rider coming down the road. They don't get any laughs when I see them over there on the side , nor when the Flatbed driving country boys don't.

[cali_beemer]

I am interested in responses as well since I have been thinking about the same thing for my RS. I have been doing some research and I have seen severla people do this on this particular set of lights. There is aeven a company in UK that will do this mod for you at the right price. I came across an FJR site where it was noticesd the Hell FF-50's didnt take to the HID very will leaving blind slots and hot spots with some weird output. I am a bit hesitant after reading that.

[moshe_levy]

If it were me, I'd possibly consider:

 

1) A set of nice, integrated HIDs, like the SCMR16 spots http://trailtech.net/lights.html mounted on the lower fork legs - the post can go through the boss which holds your front fender on, a'la Moto-lites.

 

2) Supplement this with an additional set, maybe the SC4 4" light shown on the same site, if that's not too garish. Or another set of SCMR16s if it is. For mounting, I'd consider either the EMP setup, or maybe neater looking would be to just mount them on a set of engine guards, like Z-Technik's new ones, which have an integrated light mounting hole built right in.

 

Me thinks with 2 sets of powerful HID aux lights, you could probably blind the sun - perfect for those night rides in rural areas. All this would cost less than a grand, not counting labor.

 

-MKL

[jfremder]

I contacted Hella, they said the FF50's could handle 100w ea. That's what I put in them. Made all the difference I needed.

 

Unfortunately, now I can SEE all the forest rats at night...

[Jameseo]

Does the 97RT have only a two prong H4?

My 99 has a three prong socket and I put in the H4-3 Bi-zenon from vvme.com and love the high beam.

 

The 97 is the same as your 99; it has a standard H4 three prong. When I originally did the upgrade a few years back the bi-zenon kits were pricey. But, I agree, I definitely need to try this kit now that the prices are reasonable.

 

Did you find that you needed to aim down the lamp so as not to blind anyone with the low beam? If so, how did that affect your high beam performance? Perhaps your low beam was aimed properly out of the box since your kit is dual filament and designed for hi-low, whereas my single filament was not.

 

The vvme site is not specific, please clarify some things for me. It mentions two bulbs. Is that actually two filaments in the same bulb or have they adapted two bulbs to the H4 interface? It also says 35W output. Is that low beam wattage with a more powerful high or do both use 35W and just re-aim the bulb for higher focal point? Sorry to bombard you. Maybe you had a little trouble deciphering these details from the Chinese documentation.

 

Either way, you're absolutely right! I must try this prior to moving on to more expensive solutions. Thanks 74c5!

[flars]

"...please clarify some things for me..."

The bi-xenon is one bulb, and, like all HID, has no filament. There is a metal shield inside the bulb that moves back and forth, controlled by your regular hi-beam/lo-beam switch, thereby changing the angle that the light hits the reflector in the headlight shell (or maybe it just allows more light to hit the reflector, I don't know). Since there is no second arc to strike, or second filament to light, the switch from lo to hi is pretty much instantaneous.

[Jameseo]

I contacted Hella, they said the FF50's could handle 100w ea. That's what I put in them. Made all the difference I needed.

 

That's good to know and definitely worth a try. Perhaps I can convince a certain someone I know to put 100s in his FF50s which are already mounted on EMPs....

 

Unfortunately, now I can SEE all the forest rats at night...

 

That's what I'm afraid of. Ignorance is bliss.

 

Thanks!

[Jameseo]

"...please clarify some things for me..."

The bi-xenon is one bulb, and, like all HID, has no filament. There is a metal shield inside the bulb that moves back and forth, controlled by your regular hi-beam/lo-beam switch, thereby changing the angle that the light hits the reflector in the headlight shell (or maybe it just allows more light to hit the reflector, I don't know). Since there is no second arc to strike, or second filament to light, the switch from lo to hi is pretty much instantaneous.

 

Yes, thanks for correcting my filament misstatement. However, the vvme site contradicts the shield method which I had heard of before. It explicitly states that the kit contains:

2 x Bi-Xenon HID bulbs

2 x Standard Ballasts

I was making the assumption that the kit was for a single headlamp enclosure since it's priced at only $68.99. Maybe the kit is a conversion for two enclosures!!! That would be an incredible price and since 74c5 stands by their performance, anyone considering HID should order a set.

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

Jameseo,

The vvme kit is for a car. The downside is some extra wire in the harness. The upside is an extra ballast and an extra bulb. These can be kept as replacements or sold to a friend for them to put into their bike with the addition of a relay system.

 

I did have to do trial and error on the lamp adjustment. The right hand upslant part of the beam tends to hit drivers side mirrors of cars I'm next to so, I just try to be careful and not sit where it is hitting them.

 

The way the bi-zenon works is as described in a prior post. A solenoid moves a shield out of the way of the arc on high beam. This lets the bottom half of the reflector and lens "see" the arc and you get high beam.

 

BTW, it is bright enough to easily tell where the beam is.

[Jameseo]

So are you using the 35W or 55W? Even though the OEM uses 55W incandescent, is that not too much for HID?

 

Ya. That RH upslant becomes a real PITA after conversion. Don't sit too long on others' LH side and pass quickly. Even after re-aiming.

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

I'm using 35W and it's plenty bright.

[Woodie]

Hid50.com says they have an H4 solution, with a solenoid to move the focal point of the arc from the low beam to the high beam position. They claim because it's not a straight up/down motion (like the bi-Xenon or "other manufacturers), that the pattern is significantly better, and avoids problems like the one mentioned above.

 

Has anyone seen their kit? Or talked to any real users?

 

[Fubar]

So are you using the 35W or 55W? Even though the OEM uses 55W incandescent, is that not too much for HID?

 

Everything I've read so far indicates that 35w is a more than adequate replacement/upgrade for a 55w halogen bulb.

 

On a related note: Has anyone out there bought from xtralights.com, HIDcountry.com or WholesaleHID.com? (I'm planning on buying after the new year and really would appreciate any info you haven't already provided in the thread. Been following intently.)

[lvnvbiker]

I want to HID convert my 500ff offroad lights myself, being h3 type bulbs it should be quite simple. The factory GSA fog lamps are H11 bulbs IIRR which may be more challenging but still doable. The beauty of conversions is that they stand to be around 50% of the cost of dedicated design HIDs like the PIAA or Hella stuff that are 400+ dollars EACH, or 800 bucks a set!!! The dedicated stuff is generaly a smaller unit, which may be counter productive as reflector size does effect light output and even though the lumen figures are the same IME the larger reflector is visualy brighter and has better throw.

[Jameseo]

Has anyone out there bought from xtralights.com, HIDcountry.com or WholesaleHID.com? (I'm planning on buying after the new year and really would appreciate any info you haven't already provided in the thread. Been following intently.)

 

I haven't used any of the sites you mentioned but I second the use of VVME.com. Even though the lights shipped direct from Beijing, they were at my door within a week because they use DHL expedited international. Other than firing up that beautiful HID for the first time, the real joy is the roll-on-the-floor laugh you get while trying to read the instructions. They're written in Engrish... my favorite was their excessive use of "circumvolve" to mean turn! LMAO!

 

 

Thanks again to 74c5 for recommending I upgrade to the bi-Xenon setup. It made a dramatic improvement over my single beam with PIAAs acting as highs. FYI, I purchased the 35W/6000k lamps. This kit has a removable glare deflector cap which was nice because it suppressed the low beam light intensity too much. I removed the cap and it helped significantly.

 

Now I am able to use the PIAAs in the way they were intended, to fill in where the headlamp reflector doesn't; up close and to the sides.

 

However, it seems there is never enough light. I think the perfect setup still involves 35W single beam HIDs in a pair of FF50s. Their focused oval pattern could project far and wide, the high beam illuminating just under that in the midrange, and the PIAAs filling in the near sides! I think 55W reflecting off road signs would be blinding.

 

Anybody selling a used set of FF50s to help me with my visions of luminous bliss?

[cali_beemer]

 

Anybody selling a used set of FF50s to help me with my visions of luminous bliss?

 

If you do that, take pictures and give a report on how well it worked. I have considered the same.

[Jameseo]

Have you guys seen this ADV thread?

 

HOLY $%#*!!!

 

[Heck]

FF50 lights put out a pretty fair amount of light without modification- especially for downrange lighting...I havent looked at the ADV thread yet, but first thing that comes to mind looking at that photo is that alternator belt wear would increase....I can just see that with a HID conversion. Less wattage...but where to put all the ballasts???

 

 

[JerryF]

After 10 years of driving a semi across South Dakota into Wyoming 5 nights a week. I have done a lot of reading about lighting. I thought about doing a conversion but chose to stay with factory lights and supplement them with aux hid lamps that were made with hid capsules from the start.

 

There is some interesting read here:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com

click on tech, then bulbs, then hid lamps

[Dick_at_Lake_Tahoe_NV]

I highly recommend you check out 4300K HIDs instead of the 6000K HIDs. All articles I've read indicate that the 4300K gives the best light for your eyes--the 6000K tend a littl toward the purple.

[cali_beemer]

I highly recommend you check out 4300K HIDs instead of the 6000K HIDs. All articles I've read indicate that the 4300K gives the best light for your eyes--the 6000K tend a littl toward the purple.

 

True, however I read that this also changes depending on the wattage. My understanding is that the higher wattage require a higher HID temp becasue the light gets washed out or something along those lines. Not sure but I am about to pull the trigger on an HID conversion for my low beam headlight. The kit has the option of 35 watt and 55 watt. I am thinking I am going to go with the 55 watt but I have been advised to go a bit higher temp if I go with the 55 watt. Anyone familiar with this?

[Jameseo]

I both hear and understand the concerns with HID color temp and intensity. Intensity is the most obvious, especially just after conversion. The halogen setup provides a more gradual transition from the bottom half of the road up. Surely because there is no shield to prevent radiating the lower half of the reflector. Halogen seems to just rely on lower intensity to prevent blinding the oncoming traffic. However, with the HID lamps I've used, there is sharp break between nearby illuminated road surface and further off non-illuminated roadway. I would say that some compromise does exist with HID low beams illuminating further out.

 

The same concept applies to the high beam but now, rather than being caused by the shield, is due to the reflector. The intensity of HID does saturate the eye a bit more so although the brights are glorious, the darks are darker. Again, some sacrifice and adaptation required.

 

However, for me, the low beam issue is still nil. If all I need is a low beam, while in the city, then risk of road hazards and critters is cut tremendously and ambient lighting much better than my normal driving environment When I'm forced to use low in the country due to oncoming traffic then I must reduce my speed and wait for traffic. And as for the high beam saturation, this is why I want the FF50s/HID combo. I should be able to illuminate ALL area of concern and then not have to worry about what's in the tiny bit of darkness left because I've already passed it. And for a very reasonable price!

 

That being said, Cali Bimmer, just do it! You probably won't be disappointed and can hardly go wrong if you get them as cheaply as I did. Suppose you feel you've actually reduced your nighttime visibility by going HID... then just move the kit over to your car and go buy a high $ incandescent for the bike. You'll only know your if you try! However, let me also say that 55W will look nice until you encounter a road sign (luckily those are few and far between). At that time, the 55W may be coming right back at you. Not 100% sure but I think it might be too bright.