New helmet concept for spine protection

[Peter Parts]

The on-line MIT Technology Review just had a piece on a new helmet concept with special value for spine protection.

 

helmet to protect spine too - video and text

 

See the video and read the accompanying text.

 

A few years ago, there was enormous interest in the Leatt Brace. It looks like a $800 horse collar and, working with your helmet edges, is marketed to prevent excess head motion in a fast get-off. Some favorable reports and some reports that suggest it can cause injuries.

 

For sure, the company has gone to no effort or expense to test or confirm its value and shows other corporate resemblances to week-old fish on a radiator. Hint: registering a South African safety-product corporation in Nevada is a sure tip-off.

 

Anybody have some evidence about the Leatt Brace?

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

The video looks ummm simplistic, like they forgot to account for the remaining 95% of the inertia due to the rest of the body and what it does to the other 95% of the spine. Very low fidelity dynamic model.

Not to mention the brain damage resulting during high g impacts. There could be a survivability question about converting the translation into rotation.

[Tapatio]

 

Most of the guys I ride dirt with use Leatt braces. I think they are the best safety device currently available. It would be great if someone could combine head and upper spinal cord protection.

 

http://www.leatt-brace.com

 

[brianbmw]

There's a product on one of the european helmet companys that does something similar to this. It's a thick skin that is painted on the helmet so when you hit something the skin gives and allows the helmet to rotate a little.

[Peter Parts]

Most of the guys I ride dirt with use Leatt braces. I think they are the best safety device currently available.

snip

 

Evidence?

[Tapatio]

Most of the guys I ride dirt with use Leatt braces. I think they are the best safety device currently available.

snip

 

Evidence?

 

Scientific no, empirical yes. Let me ask you this question, if your 10 year old son wanted to race motorcycles whould you make him wear one? I'm not saying that it will prevent all types of neck injuries but it is certainly better than nothing at all.

 

Video evidence

http://www.vitalmx.com/videos/features/Swaps-Crash,2983/Swaps-Crash,419/GuyB,64

 

 

 

 

 

[racer7]

Well it certainly can't come remotely close to what a HANS does for car racers. And they have nothing resembling standard test data for head and neck protection devices on their site. Last time I looked no standards group has certified it based on data rather than opinion and it was all voodoo and anecdotes including the physician letters. You can't get drugs approved in any western economy based solely on physician opinions- it takes real data and our society complains about side effects and shortcomings anyway (rightfully I'd add).

 

By its design it is not capable of doing much if anything re the lethal one- the neck stretch basal skull fracture that is the equivalent of hanging. It only takes a bit over 700 lbs of force to do that on an adult BTW and a helmeted head may be 15 lbs or so. The barrier crash equivalent speed in cars is about 40 mph. Earnhardt died in a 43 mph barrier equivalent crash because he was a vocal opponent of H&N devices (little doubt he would be alive and unhurt had he been wearing one) and now NASCAR requires them after losing 4 drivers in 2 years to such fractures. F1 started much earlier- they made it mandatory after seeing the test data and their drivers have survived hellacious 200+ G crashes as a result. Looking at data, watching sled test videos is educational. But bikers don't usually hit barriers and I'm not sure if there even is a recognized test set for bike neck devices- bikes are more about falls and slides

 

I looked at the Leath (sp?) for my bike as part of my general interest in such devices- I've used a HANS in my cars for about 7 years now - but passed on the Leath. Wrote them a note suggesting they get some actual usable data for a change about a year ago. Yes, tests are pricey - maybe $50K to start getting something useful.

 

FWIW, a somewhat related foam collar device sometimes seen in cars or on bikes is mostly a comfort device to support helmet weight, taking some off the neck. If nomex covered, it offers a little bit of fire shielding but shouldn't be relied on for the latter or anything involving a crash, IMO.

[Peter Parts]

Thanks. Sure nice to read solid information like that.

 

The Leatt company has had revenues around $3 - 4,000,000 for the last two years (from memory). That's not the same as profit (although for small companies profit is an accounting sleight-of-hand). $50,000 seems small enough for a safety company - unless registered in Nevada in which case liability means nothing.

 

Dr. Leatt may have some knowledge of these things but he doesn't seem to be an orthopedist or right specialist.

 

They boast about testing, but it is only the mechanical strength of materials.

 

Would I send one of my kids out without one? Heck, I'd scream if they bought a bike. More seriously, as for road riding, and as something of a safety wonk myself, I'd question whether the fatigue from the weight penalty and other constraints are not more deadly than the rare possible benefit (hint: I use an open face helmet).

 

One thing I believe for sure, if you have $800 to spend for safety, much better places to spend it. But they aren't as glamorous or make such a nice public statement.

 

Kind of cynical for companies like BMW to sponsor Leatt promotions instead of enhancing their machines.

 

The dirt riding situation might be different - or might not.

[AviP]

More seriously, as for road riding, and as something of a safety wonk myself, I'd question whether the fatigue from the weight penalty and other constraints are not more deadly than the rare possible benefit (hint: I use an open face helmet).

I would argue that the fatigue from an open face helmet can be worse than that from a weight penalty of safety gear. With an open face helmet there is increased wind noise that leads to fatigue. There's also that wind in your eyes and face that causes your face to tighten up and that leads to fatigue. But something sitting under or over my jacket would only cause some exertion while putting it on or taking it off. The weight penalty for something weighing around 1-3 lbs(?) is negligible.

 

I would consider this product. Now if only I can mount my EZPass on it.

 

[Peter Parts]

I would argue that the fatigue from an open face helmet can be worse than that from a weight penalty of safety gear. With an open face helmet there is increased wind noise that leads to fatigue.

snip

 

Yes. That is EXACTLY the kind of intelligent analysis that needs to be brought to bear by each individual. And why sometimes different strokes for different folks.

 

I respectfully differ in some points, of course. And not everybody thinks as clearly as AviP or expresses their thoughts as well.

 

Footnote: I have a tall windscreen and somewhat sporty posture and so aleviate the wind blast pretty well.

[racer7]

I sometimes find myself tempted by open face helmets and wore them and 1/2 helmet on bikes 30 yrs ago. But data make clear that a very high number of potentially damaging impacts land on that chin bar.

So I use a full face Shoei even in hot weather which with the RTs shield is also quiet enough to not need ear plugs to prevent wind-caused hearing damage.

Have personally witnessed split chin bars that protected operators from serious injury, even though the helmet died..

 

A data verified device that would prevent road neck injuries needs 2 types of data to be credible to me

First, data on motorcycle neck injuries for various usages

Second, data on the device that shows what per cent and intensity of such injuries it can prevent.

 

For a simple comparison, the HANS for practical purposes totally eliminates the chance of dying by basal skull fracture in an initial impact. Its only failure mode is to come out from under the harness but it is designed such that that is most improbable. It works by distributing impact loads that would otherwise stretch the neck into the helmet and shoulders/pecs and restrains against twisting injuires as well. But the car environment is better defined than a bike- the seat, harness, roll cage, H&N restraint, helmet, suit gloves shoes, body temp cooler and fire suppression systems, crush zones, etc all work together to protect against well understood risks.

 

I would not be overly impressed by European approvals and stds. I work in the pharm business and could tell you some very interesting stories of outright poisons that have been sold as drugs in Europe. The legal systems are not so much influenced by liability as here and stds of proof are much less, in some cases coming down to purchased "expert" opinion. In more recent years (post EU) there has been attention to catching up to US stds, driven by the need to be economically competitive, green ideals, and the fact that govts pay most drug costs there.

[Peter Parts]

I sometimes find myself tempted by open face helmets and wore them and 1/2 helmet on bikes 30 yrs ago. But data make clear...

snip

 

What does your "data make clear..." about the safety impact on my compromised peripheral vision or hearing, about fatigue or discomfort from heat, or other issues with a full coverage lid? Would the extra money be better spent on brighter turn signal bulbs?

 

Safety improvements are hard to gauge. Lab simulations (like Snell or DOT or EU) can always be debated (as they are currently). And nobody is doing true experiments with control groups and 10,000 participants for both practical and ethical reasons. As it happens, I'm working on a safety project that is out of this world - no experimenting there!

[Deadboy]

I sometimes find myself tempted by open face helmets and wore them and 1/2 helmet on bikes 30 yrs ago. But data make clear...

snip

 

What does your "data make clear..." about the safety impact on my compromised peripheral vision or hearing, about fatigue or discomfort from heat, or other issues with a full coverage lid? Would the extra money be better spent on brighter turn signal bulbs?

 

Safety improvements are hard to gauge. Lab simulations (like Snell or DOT or EU) can always be debated (as they are currently). And nobody is doing true experiments with control groups and 10,000 participants for both practical and ethical reasons. As it happens, I'm working on a safety project that is out of this world - no experimenting there!

 

You cannot be serious.....wear what you like but don't pretend like any of that peripheral vision/heat/hearing argument has any basis in reality. Your inability to find a helmet that fits is your fault an your fault alone.

 

As for the brace, if it is good enough for the BMW and KTM factory race teams (Dakar) and the majority of racers in motorcross and supercross the only debate is are you willing to deal with it, not if it effective (I am not wearing one currently when riding street or dirt but have considered it). I think they are under $200 these days...

[Peter Parts]

You cannot be serious.....wear what you like but don't pretend like any of that peripheral vision/heat/hearing argument has any basis in reality. Your inability to find a helmet that fits is your fault an your fault alone.

 

As for the brace, if it is good enough for the BMW and KTM factory race teams (Dakar) and the majority of racers in motorcross and supercross the only debate is are you willing to deal with it, not if it effective (I am not wearing one currently when riding street or dirt but have considered it). I think they are under $200 these days...

 

Alas, 49 years experience biking hasn't made me as wise as Deadboy. All my fault alone for being stupid.

 

But actually, that's not exactly right. It wasn't until 1966, if I recall correctly, that New York state required helmets and I bought my first shiny white Bell at Abercrombie and Fitch on Madison Avenue. So I have merely 45 years experience with helmets. But I can learn, eh Deadboy.

 

About learning a new fact, came as a surprise to hear that whole Dakar race teams and "the majority of racers in motorcross and supercross" use the Leatt Brace. Quite impressive. But is it true?

[Deadboy]

Wow so a sample size of 1 is what you are basing your statements on. Guess Dr. Hurt should have just called you and saved himself the time and trouble.

 

As for the Leatt Brace comment see for yourself.....Stewart seems to be one of the only riders without one.

 

These are from Anaheim 1 on Saturday (lites heat race): http://motography.smugmug.com/Supercross/Anaheim-1-2010/Lites-Heat-1/10894440_jPnsa#761867974_MqJ8A

 

Supercross heat 3: http://motography.smugmug.com/Supercross/Anaheim-1-2010/Supercross-Heat-2/10894488_bp4fa#761936618_nu3xH

 

Dakar photos are available everywhere.....