New Shocks?

[rickmoen]

My '05 R1200RT has 24k+ miles (I know, not enough!) and will no doubt need new shocks at some point in the future. This is best and most fun bike of the 30 or more bikes I've ever owned and I want to keep it that way! I do have some questions about replacing those shocks and since many on this Board have already done this, I seek your wisdom and experiences. It comes down to stock replacements vs. Ohlins, Wilburs, Works Performance, or something else, if it exists. I've read that stock shocks are non-rebuildable but the other three brands are rebuildable, so the nod goes to them for future maintenance. My bike has ESA and I'd like to preserve that. The Wilburs and Works Performance can incorporate that, but I don't know about Ohlins. I find their website rather confusing. I ride mostly solo. The wife does her yearly ride of maybe 500 miles and that's it. I like to push the bike (figuratively, not literally) a bit but am no where close to a racer or knee-dragger. With my Russell seat (a GREAT investment!), I've thought about getting shocks that are shortened about an inch. Does this necessitate any other changes - side or center stand modifications, loss of ground clearance, etc? I read here that the aftermarket shocks are one of the best ways to modify/improve an already great bike. A dealer's mechanic told a friend that unless you are a very "aggressive" rider, 3rd party shocks won't do much for you. Any thoughts would be appreciated and thanks in advance for any responses. Rick

 

[johnlt]

I know that Works can incorporate the ESA function but was unaware that Wilbers can do it. Do you have a POC or link to a Wilbers supplier that incorporates ESA? Thanks

[rickmoen]

I have emailed Wiburs and the response said that they could do that. Here's the part of the email response and what to do before sending in the stock shocks to remove the ESA part:

 

Making them ESA adaptable = $ 250.00

Set your ESA shocks to one person riding (one helmet) and "comfort",

wait a few seconds for the adjustment to take place and make sure that

the display says : 1 helmet and COMFORT. Shut off engine, disconnect

the ESA plugs front and rear and remove the OEM shocks.

Mail the shocks to us and we will fit the ESA components to the new

Hyperpro shocks.

You will now have a lower ride height, new and better performing

shocks with a 5 year warranty and the ESA adjustments.

 

Here's the website for Wilburs I have been on:

 

Rick

 

 

[johnlt]

Rick, did they say how long it would take?

[rickmoen]

Here's from my original email:

 

Delivery time : we try our best to get the order from the

manufacturer and

ship it to you within 3 - 4 weeks.

Our shipping charges are based on UPS Ground shipments.

It can take up to 6 business days to some western parts of the

country.

 

S&H within the continental US = $ 36.00

 

Please call the office at 732-786-9777 with your questions and/or

order.

 

Another part of the email says:

 

After receipt of your shocks at my place, they will be turned around the

next day back to you. So even with UPS Ground shipment, including removing

and re-installing them you are only out 2 weeks of riding.

I need three weeks from the time of your order to get the shocks from the

factory.

 

Looks like a fairly quick turrn-around. Not bad for us in "frozen tundra."

 

Rick

 

[moshe_levy]

Rick-

 

Those are not Wilburs shocks. Those are Hyperpro. You're talking to Klaus Hueneke, who helped me when I tested Hyperpro vs. Ohlins for MCN here http://www.mklsportster.com/Articles/mcnsuspension.pdf

 

What my main finding was: Setup and tuning matters one helluva lot more than what brand of suspension you get. And in that regard, Klaus is a recognized expert in the field. You will have a hard time doing better than him. I just wanted to correct you, that he's offering you Hyperpro, not Wilburs (it's right there in the e-mail you posted).

 

-MKL

[rickmoen]

OOPS!!! Sorry for my mistake. I needed to read the email more carefully! I did not mean to mislead anyone. The HyperPro's sure sound good.

 

Any other comments about the stock shocks vs. aftermarket for an old phart?

 

Rick

[moshe_levy]

One comment - no comparison, IF set up correctly. You can trust Klaus to do so. Worry about who sets it up more than brand of hardware.

 

-MKL

[Bullett]

Attached below is a response my husband Jan provided on another thread, similar topic. We replaced our shocks at about 20Kish.

 

I lowered mine by one inch to get the balls of my feet on the ground.

 

Edit: One other thing. Because of my weight, I could never set the stock shocks soft enough. The new aftermarket shocks can be sprung for your needs rather than a hypothetical "average rider." I think that is a significant advantage of aftermarket versus stock.

 

Twisties, your feedback is much appreciated. I would definitely like to hear more about after-market lowering options as it will likely be difficult to find a used factory lowered model. On my 1100 I had a custom seat, altered seat adjustment mechanism, 17" rear wheel, and shorter Ohlins shocks to get to a height where I had the balls of my feet on the ground but not my heels. I felt plenty steady when solo and comfortable enough when two-up that I never dropped it in nearly 100K miles of ownership. I figure a lowered R12RT should be easier to manage due to the lighter weight.

 

What Sharon had done was to order aftermarket lowered shocks. Not sure about all brands, but Works at least can lower a shock on rebuild (if you find a bike that already has aftermarket shocks), and you get your choice as to how much lower to go. She went 1". I think up to 2"'s is feasible. So this is another advantage to going with aftermarket shocks. I expect Works can do a lowered ESA shock too, if you wanted to go that way. In any event, in addition to the lowered shocks, she had the center stand and side stand cut. This was done by a local welding shop, and repainted. Total cost, including shocks, modification of both stands and installation was about $1500. She already had the factory low seat, and a Cee Bailey Sumdome (with her height, 5'2", on the low seat she was looking through the stock windshield) That's really all there is to it.

 

In my mind things to consider: Choice of low seat vs. standard seat. In an ideal world this should relate more to riding position (how you sit in the cockpit and on the bike) and the relationship of your hips, legs and feet (or you may need peg adjustments too). Shock height should be used, as much as possible, to set the overall seat height. However, notwithstanding the above, the primary issue with lowering is loss of clearance for lean angle to the cylinder heads. So don't go too far.

 

The muffler clamp position/angle may need to be adjusted to allow the cut center stand to close fully. Just after Sharon's was done I was changing fluids and put the clamp on normally. This caused center stand to drag and I just about slid off the road on the first turn I took on post maintenance test ride. When I say adjusted, I don't mean welding work, just how you put it on each time. Just something to be aware of. Since, we have learned how to get the center stand fully up I believe the first thing to hit in a turn now would be the peg feelers or cylinder heads, close on that. So far not an issue as we have had plenty of clearance.

 

You understand that the center stand is cut the same number of inches as the bike is lowered, but the side stand either should be marked, or do the trigonometry, as you need to take a bit more off for the angle.

 

She doesn't lean the bike all that much (on the lowered bike):

 

 

Mr. Whip might lean it a bit more:

 

 

One last word of advice, when talking to folks about inseam measurement, make sure you are all agreed on exactly how this is measured. Sharon is leggy we discovered, with a 5'2" overall height she sports a 30" inseam measured from crotch to instep. The good news is she rode that bike 22k miles before it was lowered, so I would think you'll do fine.

[Rocer]

 

Great thread. I've been considering lowering as well. Appreciate all the info here. Sharon, I hope you have a blown up version of your pic 'on the lean' hanging somewhere in your home.

 

 

[malcolmblalock]

FWIW, my 05 RT-ESA shocks are at Hyperpro right now being re-done at their shop in NJ. Original shocks went 72K miles (I'm not an aggressive rider) before the ESA stuck on "Two Up". I'm having them lowered 1/2 inch to make the bike a little more comfortable in tough places.

 

Seems that my ESAs had some issues. The front shock's stepper motor was full of water, according to Klaus. And the rear preload motor works sometimes and doesn't work sometimes. Hopefully they can be fixed since I like and used the ESA feature a lot.

 

Should be shipped back to my mechanic any day now. Looking forward to riding when they arrive.

[ully211]

siman00,

 

Any chance you can share with us how much replacing the shocks will be?

[malcolmblalock]

I don't have the final figures (still being built by Hyperpro), and there's still some question on whether or not the ESA is too messed up to salvage, But the shocks themselves are 589 Rear; 569 Front (less 10% discount). Repair of ESA estimated to be 60 more. Retrofitting to ESA is 125 per shock. And labor is estimated to be about 4 hours at 60 per hour.

 

Not cheap, but the article from Motorcycle Consumer News (which I pretty much trust) at http://www.mklsportster.com/Articles/mcnsuspension.pdf helped me make up my mind that Hyperpros are good shocks and slightly cheaper than the Ohlins. And better suit my style of riding.

 

Yes, I'm paying a premium for keeping the ESAs, but for my style of riding with a lot of frequent variables, and with me being basically lazy, the ESAs better suited my wants. It's only money...

 

I haven't even added it up to see what the final cost is, so do the math and you'll know more than I do.

 

Hope this helps...

[moshe_levy]

I find it always helps NOT to do the math. I break it up into little chunks, like you just did. Makes the expenses easier to justify!

 

-MKL

 

[malcolmblalock]

Makes no real difference to add it up; gonna do it anyway! But I do have to say that shocks sure seem to be much more expensive than it feel like they should be. At 72K miles, though, I guess spending some real money on the bike is okay.

[moshe_levy]

The degradation is very gradual. You won't realize just how bad they were until you get Klaus' shocks and put them on. He is excellent. You won't be disappointed. I'm extremely happy to have learned from you that he does this. Now I know where to turn when my ESA shocks go kapput.

 

-MKL

[malcolmblalock]

I'm not sure, but I think mine is the first RT he has done. At least that's what I was told. They have done GS ESA shocks for a while, I think. If not the first RT, it's among the first.

 

Also, getting it lowered 1/2" as well; I'm looking forward to having it just a wee bit lower for my average length legs.

 

Hope to get it back soon; going to Daytona and the Superbike races the first week in March.

[LeftCoastMan]

Wow. Replacing shocks is EXPENSIVE.

[dhanson]

Ohlins shock for my Tiger with discount was $972, but no comparison to stock.

[elmer]

Has anyone worked with Ted Porter at the Beemer shop in Santa Cruz, Ca. I have been there for other stuff and thy have been very good. i know they do shocks. I am not a racer but would like to lower (29' inseam). Also have ESA on my 08 R1200RT.

 

Thanks, Elmer

[Dave_in_TX]

I got this reply from Jim Lindeman of Lindeman Engineering (jim@le-suspension.com) when I enquired via email whether his company could rebuild the "unrebuildable" rear shock on my R12RT:

"been able to rebuild all BMW rears. some of the fronts we can not do.

shock rebuild- $225

rebuild/revalve/erespring $450. as far as comparisons with our stock shock revalves, other revalves, and aftermarket shocks, we are the only shop to have stock shocks win AMA Nationals. We are getting back into revalving again, with the aftermarket race shocks now costing around $1400!

The attachments are not about BMW. but they do indicate the level of performance we have been able to get out of stock parts. We use the stock pistons, called"valves" by many marketers. None on the aftermarket "fancy valves" even make it onto these AMA charts.

I welcome any further questions.

THANX for your interest!

 

-- Jim Lindemann"