But Doc, it goes numb when I do that.....

[roughwaterjohn]

It's been awhile since I spent time on two wheels, and even longer since I spent a "lot" of time riding, as I am on my RT-P. Bike is super comfortable. I love the gel seat, and the riding position promotes long haul cruising. My only problem...... my hands go numb while riding (and not from pleasure).

 

I wear a very thin pair of leather gloves, that protect my hands but give me the tactile sensations and dexterity that allow me to control and operate everything comfortably. I use a relaxed grip on the , well... grips, and move and adjust my hands frequently, but they still go numb fairly quickly. So numb in fact, I have to hit the turn signals by sight, as I can't feel them after 30-40 minutes of riding.

 

It's my right hand more than the left, as it's on the throttle and I can't let go and flex it as much as the right. I can park the bike, and in less than five minutes, all is right with the world again.

 

I thought about putting some type of cushioned grip over the originals, but they're heated, and I think that would negate or hinder their operation. I tried without gloves and it was the same. Would thicker gloves help perchance, or are there any other suggestions anyone might have?

 

I'm looking forward to lots of long distance cruising, but numb hands are going to be a problem. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

 

[PBee]

I'm certainly no MD but it sounds as though a nerve is being pinched. Assuming you're talking about highway riding I'd try a throttle lock so you can relax your grip and once in a while shake your hand.

 

Bottom line - perhaps you should talk to your real doctor.

[ltljohn]

That used to happen to me when I first returned to riding. Look at you posture I was riding with my elbows kind of high, tucking them closer to my body fixed the numbness.

[bobbybob]

Yeah, pinched nerve, but how tall are you? If somewhat over 6'0" I suggest get some bar risers. Having to lean forward (if tall) while keeping your head up can do this. I'm 6'0" and before the risers I was getting some of that (still do occasionally) but the risers really helped. If I ride a bike with lower bars, the numbness returns. FWIW.

[Mrs. Caddis]

I was having problems when I first got my RT. I thought my arm position was fine, but after reading some other posts I decided to try handlebar risers. Mine raise 1" up and 1" closer. Made a huge difference. Just a thought...

[Quinn]

As a suggestion:

 

http://www.qwinerveprotector.com./

 

they are sized too large, so order down.

 

-----

 

 

[ratfink]

I think Flash Gordon MD wrote an article on this in MCN at one time. The one thing I remember; he recomended a riding position that keeps your wrists straight rather than bent.

[Nice n Easy Rider]

John,

I thought I was getting more vibration than I wanted in my grips so I wrapped them with grip tape designed for tennis rackets. It seemed to add a decent amount of cushioning but I still have no trouble feeling the heat from my heated grips.

It's a pretty cheap fix that can be easily undone if it doesn't work for you.

[EddyQ]

I too wear thin gloves. My '07 RT caused numbness when it was new. After 600mi service, the engine was smoother and numbness went away. It resurfaced at around 2Kmi where another service interval fixed the problem. The bike now has 12Kmi and the engine is very smooth and my hands never get numb. For me, it was vibration. Perhaps a good valve adjust/TB tune could help?

 

But then again, a lot of other things could cause the problem as others have mensioned. Good luck.

[roughwaterjohn]

Thanks for all the excellent advice! I've tried to be fairly cognizant of my riding position, as it pertains to my torso, but never actually thought about wrist / arm position, and can't honestly say what they are. I'll pay attention next time I ride, which will be as soon as this 'stoopid' rain stops.

 

I try and keep my back straight, with just a little curve in the small of my back, and my knees tucked in, gripping the tank lightly as I ride. I've just been letting my arms and wrists fall where they may, so I don't know if they're angled, straight, elbows in or out. I'm 6'2" by the way, and other than my numb hands, the bike seems to fit me wonderfully.

 

I'll start looking at risers once I see how my arms and wrists are situated, and the grip tape sounds like a good idea also. Keep the good ideas coming, and I'll post here as I discover hand and wrist positioning. This bike is so comfortable to ride, if I get the numbness problem ironed out, I may need a mobile truck to refuel me on the go, 'cause I ain't ever stopping.

 

[Skywagon]

http://www.casporttouring.com/cst/motorcycle/BMW_R1150/GPSMALL.html

 

Grip puppies help with vibration and are so large you can't grip hard.

 

Works over my heated grips... takes longer, but works.

[lvnvbiker]

Having carpal tunnel I feel your lack of it... A throttle lock will help as will an Aleve pre ride...

[Haynes]

Perhaps it's something as simple as gripping too tightly.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Take a look at the grip angle (not height). I have had this issue on almost every European bike I have owned (Tuono excepted).

 

Some body over there must think our arms sprout from the center of our chest. When you have to angle your wrists outward to get a decent wrap around the grip, you lose the ability to rotate the wrist up and down without strain. Guess what? You rotate your wrists up and down a bunch, especially the throttle hand.

 

I solved the problem on my 1100S by cutting off the nub that positioned the bars and rotating them outward a bit. On my Sprint, I installed an LSL handlebar kit that allowed me to run a tubular bar. LSL makes kits for BMW as well. Google LSL Superbike.

[Peter Parts]

Best good fix: throttle counter-force spring, 28 cents.

 

Other things mentioned in write-ups at my website: enlarge grip diameter with rubberized cork bicycle handlebar elliptical cross-section tape, "support hose" for hands, and ergonomics.

 

I'm a big fan of deerskin gloves for a variety of reasons, one reason being a nice balance of feel versus some vibration isolation.

 

A lot of people think aches and pains are part of the thrill of biking. Maybe some are irreducible but worth trying fixes till you reach that point.

 

Going to be 12C (53F) in Toronto today. Back to wearing normal bike gear.

 

 

[David13]

Looser grip, throttle lock, softer glove or grip (padding), etc.

But mostly, you just get used to it.

And then it goes away, or is less noticeable.

dc

[Little_Brit]

John,

 

I know where you're coming from. For the last 20 years I have been experiencing some hand numbing when riding, mine is worst in my left hand but effects both. I got offerred surgery on both wrists to releive my carpel tunnel syndrome but ended up declining after a very long discussion with the surgeon - who had the same problem and chose not to go under the knife himself.

 

There are certainly things that you can do to alleviate the problem.

 

Avoid wearing anything elasticated at the wrist (gloves,wrist watch or jacket, even a tight jerkin/jumper will set my wrists off).

 

Try getting the wrist position in the best posture - ensuring that the back of your hands is directly in line with your forearm, not lifted or depressed . In this way you are keeping the carpel tunnel as open as possible and not putting to much pressure on the nerves that pass through that point. It may seem un-natural at first but it's worth persisting with, honest.

 

Believe it or not your head/neck posture can also play a significant part too. A good "military" like posture can help, keeping chin down and back slightly tends to open the veribra where the nerves to your hands join the spinal column.

 

And as others have mentioned here try keeping a reasonably loose grip on the bars, certainly made easier with cruise control or some sort of throttle lock (my only choice on a GS).

 

I hope this helps because I don't agree that you can just ignore it, it won't go away as if by magic.

 

Good luck

 

Derek

[upflying]

Check your grip. Mine tinkled too because I had a death grip on the bars. Relax your grip a bit.

[Rotor]

Chiropractic...

[drzep]

Chiropractic...

Nah. This is not a radicular problem (at the level of spinal nerve roots), so adjustment is not the answer. In fact, it never is but that is my biased, neurologist-heavy opinion.

 

It sure sounds like a wrist angle problem with pinching of the radial and/or median nerve. Could be a circulatory issue as well, but that is a bit more rare since the blood flow into the hand is pretty deep and hard to cut off unless you are really putting a lot of pressure on the proximal part of your palms, near the base of the thumb.

 

Can you describe the pattern of numbness a little more? Which fingers go first? Pins and needles first then numbness? Any weakness after sensation returns to your hands?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I do believe Joe has it, of course, I stated a similar opinion earlier but I'm not a neurologist and prefer Hampton Inns to Holiday Inn Express.

 

I'm amazed that a company who, back when the R100S was released, crowed about their ergonomic correctness, would release a bike with such a poor grip angle and then exacerbate the problem with a tapered grip that gets larger on the outside!

 

If you sit on your bike and wrap your hands in a normal, relaxed manner about the grips, you'll find that to do so, your elbows need to be just about above the gas cap. The grips need to rotate outward a good 10-15 degrees.

 

In the best of all worlds, you would want your forearms to be just about parallel to the ground and parallel to each other with the upper arms falling straight from your shoulders and forming an approximate 90 degree angle at the elbow. Upper arms at about a 15 degree angle forward to the axis of your spine when in a good postural position. Risers, unless you are about the size of Bounce, ain't gonna help with that.

[roughwaterjohn]

Thanks for all the great advice. I can't confirm this as it's still raining outside, so it will probably be the first of the week before I'm back on the bike, but it seems to me my arms angle down towards the grips, and my hands are angled up at the wrist. Not a lot, and I do try to keep a relaxed grip while riding.

 

I've been consciously trying to relax and move my hands, especially throttle, while riding, to the point of using my palm or fingers to grip intermittently, as opposed to a full hand grip. I try not to get one grip and maintain it, so I can flex my hand and fingers as I ride.

 

The thumb seems to go first, followed by the fingers and the rest of my hand. Needles first, then numb. No loss of strength during or after, and the hand returns to normal in 5 minutes or less if allowed to relax. Pulling off the freeway and doing city driving helps, as even the first few stoplights where I can rest my hand starts to bring sensation back.

 

Trying to be proactive, I've ordered the grip puppies, risers and throttlemesister, but I know those are only part of the solution. I'll probably order a pair of the gloves mentioned also, so I can switch between them and my current gloves, and give my impressions. With all the information here, I will actively look at body, arm and wrist angles and positions, and report back.

 

[Bill_Walker]

Try a Throttle Rocker. Works for me.

[NORMBATES]

John - I use an "original style throttle rocker" on all my scoots - most of the time I've a relaxed grip on the throttle - basically, my palm holds the throttle position - unfortunately, the original is out of production - the new style throttle rocker has a velcro closure and totally sucks - next best, in my opinion, is the "Cramp Buster" - they're relatively cheap and would be worth a trial - takes some getting used to but well worth it.

- plus I padded my grips with some foam cushioning I removed from a pair of those fancy lookin chrome grips I had on my HD - came off the old grips easy - pain to install on the Beemer grips - I've large hands and have problems with smaller grips. - Norm

[tazplas]

I sometimes had the numbness in my hands and i found that i had been doing the cuff strap on my gloves up to tight. That solved nearly all of the problem. I have also installed a cruise control which gives a chance of relaxing you hand totally.

Hopefully, it seems that there may be a variety of fixes out there for you that won't involve a surgeon. Good luck

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Selden]

Some sort of throttle rocker to rest the heel of my right hand, plus a throttle lock helps me tremendously. On long, straight roads, I take each hand (alternately) off the grip every 30 minutes or so, and stretch my arm back until I can grab the side rail of the luggage rack, then pull. Stay loose and shift position as much as possible.

[effexer1]

Sounds to me like a typical 4000 rpm vibration problem. Highway is worse, right?

 

Check the throttle body balance, adjust the valves, and ... make sure there is not too much oil in the crankcase. My 1150 vibrates terribly, causing numb hands, if there is too much oil in her. YMMV.

[drzep]

You are 100% correct Ed, I was just reiterating.

 

John, this sure sounds like a position-related issue and as eluded to above, there is likely a temporary nerve compression when you ride. The most likely place given your description of the symptoms is at the base of the palm where the median nerve runs through a tight, fibrous, unrelenting, inflexible tube (carpal tunnel). This makes sense when you think about the relationship between the extended hand and down-sloping forearm; the wrist is cocked back and this extreme flexion stretches the median nerve. In terms of sensation, the median nerve is made up of sensory wires and motor wires. The sensory wires are on the outside of the nerve and so they are affected first by stretching (which actually reduces blood to the nerve itself). The smallest wires go bonkers first - thats were the pins and needles come from. Once these wire are deprived of blood for a few minutes, they no longer send any signals to the brain, hence the numbness. If this were to continue, finger weakness would be the third step.

 

Over time all of this trauma can cause the nerve to become inflamed, but the problem is that that tunnel does not allow things to swell. This is when your riding issue can be become a real problem. Nip it in the arse now, then you are golden.

 

Aside from starting to modify the geometry of your bike, start with some cushion over the palm - just be sure it extends up over the wrist bones so that no portion of your hand hits the grip without some padding under it.

 

Its a good place to start, along with the excellent suggestions above on ride posture. These guys and gals on this site are full of wisdom when it comes to body mechanics - I've learned a lot around here. Good luck and stay loose!

[Little_Brit]

John,

 

A foot note to my wrist position experience; I have found that I need to hold my right hand almost as if I was closing the throttle even though I am holding it open! Experiment, hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

Derek

[Fubar]

Try some gloves with gel padding in the palm. I had a similar problem with my bicycle and that really helped me out. A lot more wgt. on the hands with that bike. You do lose a bit of feel but the relief is well worth it.

 

The nerve issue could be the onset of carpal tunnel, see an M.D., preferably an orthopedic surgeon. This is why I use the gloves.

[roughwaterjohn]

So I thought an update was in order. I got out on the bike today, and spent some time cruising the freeways, as constant throttle is where the problem occurs the most.

 

The only things I changed were to make sure my posture was correct (I was sitting a little forward) made sure my wrists were rolled forward a little with the wrist folded down slightly, as opposed to angled up as it was prior, and didn't grip (even lightly) with my whole hand, instead I rolled onto the throttle, then maintained speed with the palm of my hand a a little bit of fingers on the back side.

 

Result, the onset of numbing was delayed quite a bit and when it did occur 30-40 minutes into the ride as opposed to the first 5 minutes or so, the tingling / numbing was much less severe. I think once I install the risers and grips, and try the padded gloves made to alleviate nerve numbness, I should be on the road to recovery. I'll keep you all posted, and thanks for the help!

 

 

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

Somewhat dissenting opinion.

If you have coverage, go see a Dr. and get it tested. I've had both hands fixed for CTS and enjoy riding much more that I ever thought I would. Not only that, but almost any job around the house like painting, etc. is easier. Not enjoyable, but easier!

 

If you have a desk job, and need them fixed, a week (max) off work for each one. Only get one done at a time so you can still wipe....

 

[ratfink]

John - I use an "original style throttle rocker" on all my scoots - most of the time I've a relaxed grip on the throttle - basically, my palm holds the throttle position - unfortunately, the original is out of production - the new style throttle rocker has a velcro closure and totally sucks - next best, in my opinion, is the "Cramp Buster" - they're relatively cheap and would be worth a trial - takes some getting used to but well worth it.

- plus I padded my grips with some foam cushioning I removed from a pair of those fancy lookin chrome grips I had on my HD - came off the old grips easy - pain to install on the Beemer grips - I've large hands and have problems with smaller grips. - Norm

 

+1 on the Crampbuster. Took me awhile to get acustomed to it too. When I know that Iam in for spirited riding in the twisties though, it goes in my pocket or the tankbag. It can get in the way sometimes.